The Last American Ocean Liners

[StarFox]

The days of the Ocean Liners are over. The Jet has won. Now we cross the ocean packed in a plane, and enjoy the wonders of Jetlag.

But me, I was not around for the era....or for 2 decades after it ended, but I would love to go back to it. Imagine it, being on a ship 990 feet long, 101 feet wide, you could walk around, enjoy a play, catch up on reading, anything that was possiable in the 1950's (sorry, no bigscreen TVs) you could do it

There were, and to some extent still are a large number of ex Ocean Liners in the world, however they are vanishing, but one ship remains. Hands down the Best Ocean Liner ever built.

She was once called the First Lady of the Sea's. She is still the largest passenger ship ever built in the United States (even Project America was shorter). She was, and still is, the fastest Passenger Liner EVER built anywhere in the world. She could carry over 2,000 passengers, across the Atlantic in 3 days 10 hours....10 hours faster then the famed RMS Queen Mary.

She is still the Last Liner ever to hold the Blue Riband. The Award for the fastest Transatlantic crossing. Even the modern Catamaran Ferrys that hold the record today.....less then 1/10th her size and carrying 3,000 less people could only top her record by 2 hours.

Still not sure which ship I'm talking about. If not, here you go

http://www.cunard-whitestarline.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/ssus1.jpg

I only learned of this ship about 4 years ago. During a school project on Maritime Engineering. I was looking up examples of ocean liners (at the time I was focused on the Titanic) when I learned of the SS American Star....A ship wreck that until recently was on one of the Canary Islands. some of you may know her as the SS OWND!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/8_-_AmStar_7.JPG/360px-8_-_AmStar_7.JPG

I was sad to see such a great ship get wrecked like that. and as I started reading her history, I learned she had a much Larger Sister, the SS United States. I quickly learned about her speed, size, everything about how great she was. I was almost sure thats where it ended, but I was wrong. I learned that unlike the SS America (American Star) the United States was still around, and intact (minus interior)

at once I thought, how can such a great ship still exist and no one knows about it! I very quickly and very sadly learned, that after 17 years in service, she was laid up in 1969. and quickly forgotten.....

Today she sits, idle and rusted, in my place of birth...Philadelphia Pennsylvania. She is currently owned by Norwegien Cruise Lines, who promised to restore her, and another great American Liner the SS Independence (see photos below) to Cruise Service. that was in 2003. today, the Truth shows. NCL America is in service, the only US Flagged Cruise Line. The Independence has been sold to "someone", no one really knows who. the Great SS Norway (ex SS France) which was also promised to be redeemed in some sense, possiably a hotel, is currently being scrapped in Alang India

Sadly it seems not that NCL has lied to us. Although they still own the United States, their main promise has been broken. there will be no pair of classic ocean liners cruising American Waters, at this rate there will be no Ocean Liners Crusing American Waters at all. The Independence, in her almost pristine state of preservation based on pictures taken recently of her interior, has an unknown fate

the SS United States, rusted, empty, and static, also has an unknown fate. Maybe she will end up in India...but that has been asked for 30 Years...and has yet to come true.

One thing is for sure....SOMETHING must be done

I am Currently Working with Reuben Goossens, Corey Abelove, and Alex Naughton who are all part of the ssmaritime.com "Save a Classic Liner" Campaign, dedicated to Saving the SS United States, SS Independence, and any other Vintage ocean liners left in the world. and do not think it is a senseless fight!

the Campaign in the hands of Reuben, has Already preserved one ocean liner for the future, the SS Rotterdam

Who knows, with enough support, some day the SS United States hotel in New York City will open. Maybe the SS Independence Hotel in Oakland, or Honolulu, where she cruised up until 2001.

But without support, these last great AMERICAN ships, the Mighty United States, and the Delightful Independence could be scrapped, turned into "something else"

I urge anyone, everyone who loves the ocean and the Ships and Subs that sail it, contact every Senator, represenative, news agency, everyone. Tell them the Story I have shared with you, Americans espically, DO NOT let this ship, who has been called the "Flagship of America" for over 50 years now, fall into the hands of a steel worker in india. Dont Let the Independence, who could cheaply be restored and either returned to service, or made into a hotel, be turned into next years new cars.

Both ship Deserve to be Preserved. Any and All Americans should make an effort, even if just signing my petition, to protect this great ship

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/scrapthebigu/index.html

Email Senators, do your part

Edit #1

I would also suggest getting in contact with any 2008 hopefuls. If they are on the side of protecting the ship, it could easily become a campaign issue...with huge press....which would bring these great ships to the light once again

Best Regards
-Will Gant
Proud SS United States and SS Independence Supporter
http://www.ssmaritime.com/SS-United-States.htm

Below are images of the ships Mentioned

the SS Independence, and her current home at Pier 70 in Oakland

http://www.ssmaritime.com/indi-laidup-patrick-race-6.jpg

The SS United States....Awaiting her fate in Philadelphia, such a sad sight, she has not been painted since 1968

http://www.ssmaritime.com/ssus-laidup1-chuck-cowherd-02-1.jpg

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/1999/11-12/photos/ship.jpg

The SS Norway (ex SS France) who was disgracefully disgaurded by NCL, who neglected her boilers until one exploded, then lied about her destination and fate to the German Government to get her to a breaking yard in southeast asia....what a Disgrace for their fleets flagship for over 20 years!!

http://www.ssmaritime.com/norway-alang-break-2.jpgfile:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/WILL%27S%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg

[Skybird]

As a meaningful and needed tool of mass transportation, the days of cruisers are over, yes, but the holiday cruise buisiness is booming - practically all majopr shipyards in the world have filled books, and every major competitor is boosting up his fleet.

Me personally fail to see the fun in spending two weeks on a flying city with shops and shops and shops and more shops and promenades offering more shops and reaching from bow to stern.

If I would consider to make a holiday on the high seas, I would search for an adventure turn on a sailship, at least a very huge yacht. Something liike boarding the gorch fock. but it is unlikely I will ever feel tempted to do even this. Being close to the sea and spend some times in Lübeck and the coast in the Lübeck Bay is good enough for me.:D

[Konovalov]

As a meaningful and needed tool of mass transportation, the days of cruisers are over, yes, but the holiday cruise buisiness is booming - practically all majopr shipyards in the world have filled books, and every major competitor is boosting up his fleet.

Me personally fail to see the fun in spending two weeks on a flying city with shops and shops and shops and more shops and promenades offering more shops and reaching from bow to stern.

If I would consider to make a holiday on the high seas, I would search for an adventure turn on a sailship, at least a very huge yacht. Something liike boarding the gorch fock. but it is unlikely I will ever feel tempted to do even this. Being close to the sea and spend some times in Lübeck and the coast in the Lübeck Bay is good enough for me.:D

How easy. :smug: I agree with every word you have written here. :yep: The whole concept of being stuck on a cruise liner has absolutely zero appeal to me.

[mrbeast]

As a meaningful and needed tool of mass transportation, the days of cruisers are over, yes, but the holiday cruise buisiness is booming - practically all majopr shipyards in the world have filled books, and every major competitor is boosting up his fleet.

Me personally fail to see the fun in spending two weeks on a flying city with shops and shops and shops and more shops and promenades offering more shops and reaching from bow to stern.

If I would consider to make a holiday on the high seas, I would search for an adventure turn on a sailship, at least a very huge yacht. Something liike boarding the gorch fock. but it is unlikely I will ever feel tempted to do even this. Being close to the sea and spend some times in Lübeck and the coast in the Lübeck Bay is good enough for me.:D

Think you pretty much echo my sentiments too. :yep:

Modern liners are less ships more floating shopping malls and they look about the same too. The classic liners like the Queen Mary or the Titanic, I could go for but in a choice between a tall sailing ship and a modern liner, the tall ship would win everytime.:up:

[kiwi_2005]

Yeah but guys imagine all the single ladies running around in bikinis just waiting to meet someone just like you. Does not that appeal to you:hmm:

:lol:

[Jimbuna]

Yeah but guys imagine all the single ladies running around in bikinis just waiting to meet someone just like you. Does not that appeal to you:hmm:

:lol:

Oh yes http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7402/ist22465543sunbathingwl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us):hmm:

[JSLTIGER]

Actually, the SS United States was purchased by NCL a few years ago, and at the time it was intended that she would return to service as a cruise ship. They were doing feasibility studies on repairing her, but I haven't heard anything in a while.

[Konovalov]

Yeah but guys imagine all the single ladies running around in bikinis just waiting to meet someone just like you. Does not that appeal to you:hmm:

:lol:

No because I'm married and value my life. :lol:

[Etienne]

Yeah but guys imagine all the single ladies running around in bikinis just waiting to meet someone just like you. Does not that appeal to you:hmm:

:lol:

Oh yes http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7402/ist22465543sunbathingwl5.jpg (http://imageshack.us):hmm:

I worked on a cruise ship for a while, and I can assure you the average passenger is 30 years older and 100 pounds heavier.

And seriously, the "Classic liners", while they look good, didn't have accomodations that would fare competitively with today's offering... And conversion to meet USPH and USCG standards would be somewhere between Ouch and "Please stop!"

Plus, these babies are probably steam powered. Talk about a major drydock job.

While some of them are very good looking, ships are essentially tools. When a tool becomes obsolete or worn out, or when its purpose is no longer, it is discarded. That's pretty much the end of it.

[joea]

I worked on a cruise ship for a while, and I can assure you the average passenger is 30 years older and 100 pounds heavier.



That seems to be par for the course from what I've heard. I still want to make the Atlantic crossing once for the heck of it.

[Kapitan]

NCL has lied to us before:

SS Norway ex SS France now sitting on a beech in alang being cut up
SS Independance already in tow for alang as of mid january this year.

and guess what both owned by NCL

SS United states been laid up for a very long time i cant ever see her going back to sea, its full of rust and wont pass SOLAS 2010 for definate.

there are still two now three ocean liners about all belong to cunard Queen Elizabeth 2 Queen mary 2 and the new Queen Victoria and yes they are still classed as ocean liners.

[StarFox]

NCL has lied to us before:

SS Norway ex SS France now sitting on a beech in alang being cut up
SS Independance already in tow for alang as of mid january this year.

and guess what both owned by NCL

SS United states been laid up for a very long time i cant ever see her going back to sea, its full of rust and wont pass SOLAS 2010 for definate.

there are still two now three ocean liners about all belong to cunard Queen Elizabeth 2 Queen mary 2 and the new Queen Victoria and yes they are still classed as ocean liners.
actually thats not 100% true



·

Alternative designs and arrangements;

·

Safe areas and the essential systems to be maintained while a ship proceeds to port after a casualty, which will require redundancy of propulsion and other essential systems;

·

On-board safety centres, from where safety systems can be controlled, operated and monitored;

·

Fixed fire detection and alarm systems, including requirements for fire detectors and manually operated call points to be capable of being remotely and individually identified;

·

Fire prevention, including amendments aimed at enhancing the fire safety of atriums, the means of escape in case of fire and ventilation systems; and

·

Time for orderly evacuation and abandonment, including requirements for the essential systems that must remain operational in case any one main vertical zone is unserviceable due to fire.

Not sure what the first part is...but maintaining essential systems, dual engines rooms. and since the ship is gutted, adding safe area's is very easy

3rd part, once again, dual engine rooms

Fire alarms and fire saftey in general, gutted ship, easy to fire proof. and even before she was gutted, she was almost 100% fireproof. Gibbs was crazy about keeping her fireproof, even though there was no law asking for fireproofing to the extent he used.

Evacuation, the ship wqas built to US Navy standards as far as compartments. she was desinged to shot as should she ever need to be converted into a troop transport, which was suppose to take no more then 48 hours. she could take damage, and not sink, that remains true even today, as the watertight bulkheads have not been changed since the day she was built

NCL said they finished their feasabilty study, and they believe she could be brought back to service. But seeing how the treated the norway, I would much rather see the ship become a museum and hotel. and that I the goal that me and the rest of the "Save a Classic Liner" campaign are working to acheive

[Kapitan]

What part isnt ture?

maritime matters ships nostalgia have all reported independance been towed, i may have mis read im tired atm il respond tommorrow to any other post.

if its about the term ocean liners, cunard still calls them ocean liners however they more of cruise liners.

[bookworm_020]

Cruise ship rarely get a decent end. I read about S.S. America not long ago and saw some recent photos of her, there isn't much left of her now and the rest will be gone soon.:cry:

It will be intresting to see how the QE2 is treated in retirement.:hmm:

[Etienne]

SS United states been laid up for a very long time i cant ever see her going back to sea, its full of rust and wont pass SOLAS 2010 for definate.

SOLAS 2010 will likely only apply to ships whose keels was laid after a certain date, unless it's a large deviation from previous convention. The smaller stuff (IE, the stuff that donT require modifying the ship itself) would apply, but otherwise she'd still be classed under whatever rules and convention were in effect at the time her keel was laid.

Unless, of course, the recomissionning effort involves such major modification to the ship that it's considered a rebuilding.

In any case, it probably wouldn't be financially viable to put her back into service. Cripe, the boat is steam powered! With today's fuel cost, how can that ever be profitable? They have to compete with everybody else out there.

Nobody ever says anything when a cargo boat gets scrapped.

[swifty]

Me personally fail to see the fun in spending two weeks on a flying city with shops and shops and shops and more shops and promenades offering more shops and reaching from bow to stern.



I used to feel the same way until my GF talked me into going on one. And as far as vacations go it's got to be one of the most relaxful ones I have ever been on. The only real worry I ever had was to make sure I didnt lose track of time while in port and miss the boat, every thing else was taken care of. Now for me I have it made I live no more than 2 hours from the 3 largest cruse ports in the US (Miami, Ft. Lauderdale and Cape Canaveral) so I don't have to worry about flights. I see it as a great way to unwind and recharged as a four day weekend.

I worked on a cruise ship for a while, and I can assure you the average passenger is 30 years older and 100 pounds heavier.


I will agree the average is 30 but there is almost always a group of 20 something co-eds. Just about all my lady friend go on a cruse each year.
Some of my friends:

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/38423/2139824600102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2139824600102531371mtblxO)
http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/8088/2565885880102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2565885880102531371ZxBygK)
http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/25581/2399425930102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2399425930102531371zQuNrC)
http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/34225/2894791110102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2894791110102531371IgvKge)
http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/35086/2489595070102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2489595070102531371tfXdfQ)
http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/35940/2412581250102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2412581250102531371VhfAXP)

[Torplexed]

Oh my. :o Cruise ship babes.

Where's ol' Leisure Suit Larry when you need him? :D

http://neptoon.homestead.com/LSL7.jpg

[geetrue]

Looks like all of those girls had the same plastic surgeon to me ... :lol:

Just kidding ... I love old ships.

Good luck StarFox ... Have you thought about fixing the United States up with a perment mooring place ... then turning her into a time-share stateroom venture.

I have ... but a little low on dough right now, like three bucks.

[StarFox]

SS United states been laid up for a very long time i cant ever see her going back to sea, its full of rust and wont pass SOLAS 2010 for definate.
SOLAS 2010 will likely only apply to ships whose keels was laid after a certain date, unless it's a large deviation from previous convention. The smaller stuff (IE, the stuff that donT require modifying the ship itself) would apply, but otherwise she'd still be classed under whatever rules and convention were in effect at the time her keel was laid.

Unless, of course, the recomissionning effort involves such major modification to the ship that it's considered a rebuilding.

In any case, it probably wouldn't be financially viable to put her back into service. Cripe, the boat is steam powered! With today's fuel cost, how can that ever be profitable? They have to compete with everybody else out there.

Nobody ever says anything when a cargo boat gets scrapped.
Thats because most cargo boats, no one ever thinks of them anyway. they are nothing more then an invisible means of trade. But believe me, I have seen a few cargo ships got to the breakers that I was upset about

Ocean Liners are different. espically these two. The United States is the greatest maritime acheivment ever in United States history. she had many firsts, first fire proof ship, first ship with full A/C (a huge luxery back in 1952) First ship with two complete engine rooms, largest ship ever built in america (both then and now)

Independence has less cool facts about her, but the simple fact that she was made in america I blieve is enough to save her. even so, there are so few ocean liners left anywhere in the world, so saving a few of the best, would benafit future generations so they can learn about the past, much like preserving Uboats in the post WWII years

[JSLTIGER]

Oh my. :o Cruise ship babes.

Where's ol' Leisure Suit Larry when you need him? :D

http://neptoon.homestead.com/LSL7.jpg

:D The original taught me how to type when I was a little kid...

[Etienne]

Let's play Guess the Cruise Line!


http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/38423/2139824600102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2139824600102531371mtblxO)

http://inlinethumb46.webshots.com/25581/2399425930102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2399425930102531371zQuNrC)

Carnival Cruise Line, Original Flava.


http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/34225/2894791110102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2894791110102531371IgvKge)

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/35940/2412581250102531371S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2412581250102531371VhfAXP)

Royal Caribbean. The top picture is in Labadee or that other private place they have in the W. Caribs.

Did I get any right? :-D

(You know you've been working too much when you try to identify the ships in the pictures before you even notice the girls.)

...first fire proof ship...

Funny that they could build unsinkable ships in 1912, but waited forty years to take care of the flammabillity problem. :-D

[StarFox]

I know im gonna get flamed for this post, but I do not care....i guess no one here cares about history

And look up William Francis Gibbs, he indeed made a true fireproof ship, it was not just a catch line, it was a true fact

I have just head from Jon Haeber in California. He recently took some wonderful pictures
of the Interior of the great SS Independence. the ship looks almost in pristine shape,
almost new. sure the exterior is beat up, but its the interior that matters

I along with the rest of the "Save a Classic Liner" campaign have hoped that this historic
ship, built in 1951, she sailed until 2001. 50 Years in Service, quite a record, even the
SS United States cannot show such a record.

However, Jon has told me, the word on the Street is that the delightful Independence (now
renamed Oceanic) is leaving next thursday for "asia"

We all know that could mean two things, either a yard to refit the ship for service (which
is unlikely as no one even knows who owns the ship now) or she is going to a breaking yard

the Independence represents one of two remaing AMERICAN ocean liners from a bygone time.
the other of course being the SS United States. the Sistership to the Independence, the
Constitution, sank on her way to india in 1995.

I am trying to put together a huge media Blitz in a last bid attempt to save this great
and historic ship. Anyone willing, anyone who calls themselves a ship lover, be it
warships of commerical ships, you should help with this effort. Sure she has no guns,
never killed anyone, but she is the 2nd to last american ocean liner left on earth. The
rest as far as I know, are gone for good. Dont let this happen! Help, Email, call every
international news station on earth. Please, dont let another great ship meet the torch.

Help preserve history, Save a Classic Liner!!!

-Will Gant
Member of the "Save a Classic Liner" Campaign

[joea]

Good luck friend, I hope you suceed. :up:

[StarFox]

Thanks, It never hurts to try

And to be honest, At least the United States is still around, she is the one that over all needs the huge attention. She requires far more work then the Indy does, which is why it was logical to try and save the Independence first

she could be a hotel with less the a months work, mostly painting and replacing the wood decks that have been exposed to the weather.

and at least I can feel some pride in trying to save some history....even if its from my computer desk

[geetrue]

Thanks, It never hurts to try

And to be honest, At least the United States is still around, she is the one that over all needs the huge attention. She requires far more work then the Indy does, which is why it was logical to try and save the Independence first

she could be a hotel with less the a months work, mostly painting and replacing the wood decks that have been exposed to the weather.

and at least I can feel some pride in trying to save some history....even if its from my computer desk

"If God be for you ... who can be against you" Romans 8:31

[SteminDemon13]

Hi Star Fox,

Let me commend you on a great post. I have read about the SS United States. What is it you and your organization that you associate with plan to do? Have you or anyone of your organization inspected the ship?
Keeping her steam powered would not be a problem. She has a design similar to the Iowa Class propulsion plant (that's why regulars were prohibited from visiting the plant) All of these liners/ships guzzle fuel. Gas turbines are the worst for fuel consumption and their efficiency drops even further in warm weather.
A well maintained steam plant will give you happy steamind for many many years. The Iowa class battleships had an unmatched record of reliability by the way.

Star fox, it would be nice to know how the propulsion plants were laid up? Was there cosmoline put in all of the Reduction Gears? How were the boilers laid up prior to her sitting all these years. Being there is no power to the ship I am sure that the boilers were not on a heated air lay up. Nitrogen Blanket? Maybe, but someone would have to make sure the pressure was maintained? Hot Deaerated backfill is only good for 2 weeks, so it would have been stupid to use that, could be a hydrazine layup, but an adequate level in the head tank has to be maintained, combined with desicant bags on the fire sides of the boiler and in the uptakes? Or was a completely dry lay up done, with desicant bags all over the place? Desicant bags do need to be changed though, not sure if any of this was maintained So many variables.

Star fox, if your organization would like me to help with an inspection of the propulsion plant let me know. I would be glad to help out. We would need to get a portable generator though so we can light up the fire and engine rooms. Other concerns would be Gas Free epuipment and a qualified person to boot, because there is no way anyone should be going in a void or enclosure without a gas free cirtificate. Safety is key and I would not want anyone, including myself to be hurt, or dead.
A plan of action and requirements would have to be written up for everyones well being. Good luck Star Fox, and thanks for supporting a great lady like the SS United States.

And thanks to the others for those cruise ship girl pictures.:D :rock:

[StarFox]

Actually as much as we would love to return her to active service sailing the world, we currently believe that the best outlet for the ship is as a Static hotel, museum, and convention Center in New York

NCL is the only group that has inspected her in recent years, they conculded that it was feasable to return her to active service. It has also been reported that the SS United States Conservancy I believe was shown underwater video of the Hull of the ship, according to them, it is in good shape, with little marine growth

As far as her layup concerns, she was abruptly laid up in 1969, half way through a major overhaul, so I cannot even begin to guess what was done and what was not. I do not know of any inspections of her turbines

no matter what however, to return the Big U to operation is estimated to cost more then $500 Million USD. which is more then the cost of a new cruise ship in most cases.

even the cost to restore her as a hotel would be HUGE, far more then the Independence. which is why I believe that the Indy is a good stepping stone...however it seems time is now against us.

Hopefully, we can get enough press about the ship, and do enough to 1, prevent her beaching, 2, get people with the money to buy and operate the Independence, or the United States as a hotel, convention center and maritime museum

[swifty]

Good Luck. Unfortunately judging but their current state they will never sail again. I just can't see a company being able to make a profit when a new ship cost the same and trying to get people to sail on an old dated ship when there is the Cunard Line offering the same experience with more amenities and luxuries.

I also see little chance that of them being successful as hotel and conference center. Their design just leave them too cramped and closed in.

Where you might find success is in partnering with one of the US naval museums and turning it into a hotel, restaurant and museum. Being a museum it could fall under a not for profit saving lots of money.

Both need a lot of work but I have to say the United States looks more regal and what an ocean liner should look like she also appears to have more history with the Blue Riband award.

Photos of the two in their current State
S.S. United States
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qnkt7q8r4q9g&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=2004612&encType=1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/SS_United_States_Philadelphia_2005.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/SSUnited_StatesMP.Jpg

SS Independence
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=q8tgbn4t15v4&style=o&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=13312749&encType=1

[Thermographer]

I'd love to cross the Atlantic again in anything that wouldn't require breathing recycled air or require me to stand watch!
Cruse ship, sailing ship.. either! I bet the company would be better as well. ( see above bikini pics ) :lol:

[geetrue]

I agree with Swifty ... the SS United States is the better looking one as far a real sleek look.

As a last ditch effort, contact the US Navy asking them if they would consider a novel idea of having the SS United States as a recruiting office.

Berth it somewhere in Florida for the tourist trade to impress those young lad's and lassie's to join up someday.

Plus after 39 years in the water, those zinc's are gone ... you got to have a thin sheet of metal somewhere ...
by the way what does a $100 a day come to for 39 years? That's the minimum charge for tying up a ship that big or else some else has their heart and soul in this grand old ship.

Good luck ...

[Jimbuna]

I'd love to cross the Atlantic again in anything that wouldn't require breathing recycled air or require me to stand watch!
Cruse ship, sailing ship.. either! I bet the company would be better as well. ( see above bikini pics ) :lol:

Cruise Liners.....best way to travel :rock: :up:

[SteminDemon13]

Actually as much as we would love to return her to active service sailing the world, we currently believe that the best outlet for the ship is as a Static hotel, museum, and convention Center in New York

NCL is the only group that has inspected her in recent years, they conculded that it was feasable to return her to active service. It has also been reported that the SS United States Conservancy I believe was shown underwater video of the Hull of the ship, according to them, it is in good shape, with little marine growth

As far as her layup concerns, she was abruptly laid up in 1969, half way through a major overhaul, so I cannot even begin to guess what was done and what was not. I do not know of any inspections of her turbines

no matter what however, to return the Big U to operation is estimated to cost more then $500 Million USD. which is more then the cost of a new cruise ship in most cases.

even the cost to restore her as a hotel would be HUGE, far more then the Independence. which is why I believe that the Indy is a good stepping stone...however it seems time is now against us.

Hopefully, we can get enough press about the ship, and do enough to 1, prevent her beaching, 2, get people with the money to buy and operate the Independence, or the United States as a hotel, convention center and maritime museum

Well, if it get's turned into a hotel convention center and museum, then in essence with some time we could get her running again. She then could go on a cruise maybe 4+ times a year. First she has to be secured by someone though. Then the other necessary steps can be taken to restore her. PM me sometime Starfox.

[StarFox]

Im a few days late on this, but here is a Photo from last friday, the 8th

http://www.ssmaritime.com/Indie-oceanic-dep-SFO-1pm-8-feb-08Marmatters.jpg

Wave good bye....although we hope we can stop the ship elsewhere. I cannot give details, I am trying to play it safe.

But we still have hopes the ship can be saved

In other news.....

February 12: In June 2007 NCL America announced that the Pride of Hawaii was to be transferred to NCL European fleet and renamed Norwegian Jade, now, Colin Veitch has announced that the Pride of Aloha will follow her, and will head for Asia to be deployed with NCL’s parent company Star Cruises in their Casino fleet of cruise ships in May. Colin Veitch claims that the completion is hurting NCL Hawaiian service, however, NCL America and NCL Cruises, both companies that are loosing a fortune according to their recent financial statements, is I feel due to the massive damage done to their image because of what they have done to their three classic liners as we have highlighted on the “Save the SS Norway, France Campaign” waged for a number of years, and the “Save the SS Independence & SS United States Campaign” these campaigns have done them far more harm, and I believe it will eventually DESTROY THEM! 21 or more million supporters, (many ex NCL passengers who will never sail with them again) cannot be wrong! NCL, you have been banned from all our cruise plans, and you can go to hell!!!

I cannot agree more with that last sentence. The only time I will ever sail on NCL is on the Maiden Voyage of the SS United States......but, a source in NCL says chances are that will never happen. Which basicaly confirms everything that I, the rest of the Save the Classic Liners team, and Rueben have said for years now.

I would also like to point out, that the founder of NCL, Mr. Knut Klosters, wishes he had not sold he beloved cruise line to NCL, which then got bought by Star Cruises, and was very disapointed at how Star Cruises treated his founding ship, the SS Norway

So it seems things are going down the tube fast for both NCLA, and NCL...and Star Cruises in General. Soon they will have no reason to continue their lease on the SS United States, and then things will begin to get intersting. Who knows which direction things will turn, but I know, as does our Team, that we will spare no effort in ensuring the permanent perservation of the Might SS United States. I will tie myself to the ship if I have to to keep her in America!!

[geetrue]

Isn't it possible to oubid a scrap dealer for the ship you want to save ... ?

All that leaves is somewhere to anchor or dock her and maintain her, right?

[StarFox]

yes, in theory that is all you would have to do, but I do not happen to have $5-10 Million lying around. That is about what the scrap value of the ship is.

We do have a contact in asia who was curious about buying her for a 5 star hotel. we are also working (as i stated before) to stop her soon

the big trick is stopping or buying the ship before she gets beached in India, because once a ship is beached, it gets expenisve to un-beach her

[Etienne]

One question that came to me after the thread went inactive:

Is the fireproofing on the ship asbestos-based?

If so, any conversion project would have to include removing the stuff (And it's a very expensive project) before anything else could happen. Otherwise, it's a huge health hazard...

[Jimbuna]

One question that came to me after the thread went inactive:

Is the fireproofing on the ship asbestos-based?

If so, any conversion project would have to include removing the stuff (And it's a very expensive project) before anything else could happen. Otherwise, it's a huge health hazard...

Your not kidding.....and Canada is the largest exporter of the stuff.....outside of the third world IIRC :hmm:

[Etienne]

Your not kidding.....and Canada is the largest exporter of the stuff.....outside of the third world IIRC :hmm:

Yeah, the European ban essentially killed the economy of a few town in Quebec.

There are ways to use asbestos that are essentially safe (Fireman's gear and so on - There was even talk of using it to make paper, but I don't think that ever got off the ground), but the volume is far from what it was back in the days. Beside, now, asbestos as such a bad name...

It's one of the reasons you don't see many ships dating from before the
'70s sailling around. It's often cheaper to build a new boat than to remove the asbestos.

[Stealth Hunter]

I heard something a while back about the Carnival Cruise Line supposedly getting ready to rebuild a functioning scale-size liner of the Titanic. It was either Carnival or the other line... can't think of its name. Huge rumors flying around about it, but I guess it's been abandoned... or is still in talks/on the drawing board/on the project shelf.

[StarFox]

Yes we always knew it would have to be removed. But you could still keep many interior fixtures. just look at the SS Rotterdam being restored for a hotel...amazingly in Rotterdam. All asbestos was removed, and the interior was reassembled without it.

Edited for reasons concering the Preservation of the SS United States

[X15]

Everything I've read about the SS United States is that she has been fully stripped of asbestos (along with all other furnishings).

Also, she was at one point properly laid up by Newport News, but she surely stopped being dehumidified at some point, and who knows if NCL has hooked it pack up. I'd bet Newport News could make her operational again, but at what cost?

[StarFox]

and thats the problem, the cost

the cost to return the ship to cruise service is just as much as building a whole new cruise ship.

even a Hotel is very very expensive, but far cheaper then being returned to passenger service.

[Etienne]

I heard something a while back about the Carnival Cruise Line supposedly getting ready to rebuild a functioning scale-size liner of the Titanic. It was either Carnival or the other line... can't think of its name. Huge rumors flying around about it, but I guess it's been abandoned... or is still in talks/on the drawing board/on the project shelf.

A lot of people have talked about making a Titanic replica, however nobody got off the drawing board, for various reason:

1. Once the attraction of "Wooh, Titanic!" wore off, it wouldn't have much passenger appeal - The accomodations / entertainment would be nowhere near what other liners could offer

2. Titanic was actually pretty small by modern standard. Shipping - Especially pax shipping - is an economy of scale.

3. Modern safety regulation would prevent the building and operation of a ship that looked like Titanic. Modern safety regulations were invented BECAUSE of Titanic. So you'd have brightly colored semi-enclosed liferafts, and they'd have to be a lot closer to the waterline than on the original.

Plus the deck machinery would look nothing like the original (Or it'd be a major PITA for the crew, and a huge expense to acquire / have custom made), the bridge would have to be completly different, you'd have to install a bow thruster, double rudders, stern thruster, stabillizers...

Unless it was operated solely as an historical replica, in which case there's no way it'd ever be cost effective. Whatever happen, it'll have to integrate a certain level of modernity, and it'll end up a bastardization of all thing shipping.

Seriously, the closest you can come to in terms of look / spirits and still turn a profit is the QM2. Look at the butt of that thing - Don't tell me they didn't sacrifice common sense for looks.

[AVGWarhawk]

Everything I've read about the SS United States is that she has been fully stripped of asbestos (along with all other furnishings).

Also, she was at one point properly laid up by Newport News, but she surely stopped being dehumidified at some point, and who knows if NCL has hooked it pack up. I'd bet Newport News could make her operational again, but at what cost?

Newport News has big government contracts for carriers and the like. I'm suspecting they would stick to this guaranteed revenue for quite sometime.

[SteminDemon13]

Etienne,

I have read a whole bunch of proposals for the "New Titanic". There was even one in popular mechanics some time ago. An exact replica is not in the cards, but a "fairly close" replica is feasable. They would have to meet all the requirements of a ship of today. For engineering, they could go all out and replicate the fire and engine rooms, but......I don't think a stoker is going to work for 10 cents an hour these days. A more feasable approach would be a modern efficient plant. You can however have 2 or 4 hand fired, coal scotch marine boilers (the kind used on titanic) and have tours for the replicated boiler rooms so people can see how it looked and how they operated. That could easily be incorporated in the watch rotation and the steam the boilers produce can be tied into hotel services. Reciprocating engines....that would be a big task, albeit very expensive. She can run two or four shafts, and two or 4 boilers along with two or four 50,000+ SHP Turbines & Reduction Gears, or Turbo Electric Drive.

The ship would have to be longer and wider than the original Titanic, as etinne mentioned, they are small by today's standards. The bow would be a bulbous bow. No more single undersized rudder. The Keel, and bulheads among other things would all have to be re designed, so that would effect how some of the replicated areas would look. Prop pockets can be utilized added efficiency. Addition of modern sewage and waste handling rooms is a must for environmental concerns (pulper, plastic disk maker etc.).

All in all, you can make a look alike titanic with four stacks and all, but it would have to be designed around the safety standards of today. Who in the hell would want to ride around on a ship without enough lifeboats and risk sinking if opened up a little?

To the United States, let's get her where she belongs first. I would be more than happy to lend a hand in restoring her to her former glory. I'll be down the hole, while you passengers...I mean top siders worry about the rest.

Snipes are the life of the ship, everyone else is just a passenger :D.

[StarFox]

More news concering the SS Independence

Still trying to confirm this with Alex and Corey

http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=7314&format=html

The international activist group called Save the Classic Liners has urged the U.S. Coast Guard and EPA to impound the SS Independence, warning that breaking it down in Asia would release toxic PCBs and asbestos.

Looks like we may have made a difference after all

Also I have been Told by Corey that the SS United States still contains PCBs and Asbestos in her engineering spaces, which is not much, but enough to make a fuss about. I am still hoping for a maricle rescue of the Big U, although nothing has really changed since 1996, in the back of my mind I am hoping that NCL will come though, but recent events say otherwise

First the Pride of Hawaii was transfered from NCL America, now the Pride of Aloha will leave, I can only wonder how long the Pride of America will last by herself. If anyone knows some rich friends that want to buy a rusted old ship with loads of possible uses, now would be a good time to speak

[Etienne]

Glad to hear about the Independence. That's at least one ship that won't contribute to the coming epidemy of cancer in Alaung. If the detention holds, the fight as to who's responsible for cleaning the ship up could hold her for a while.

Incidentally, if this make the news, the group might have ultimately hurt their cause. Who'd want a cruise boat full of toxic materials?


First the Pride of Hawaii was transfered from NCL America, now the Pride of Aloha will leave, I can only wonder how long the Pride of America will last by herself.

The only reason these ships were ever flagged in America is to avoid having to meet the "Distant port" requirement for Hawaiian cruises. If the market shifted away from Hawai, or it became more cost-effective to do the distant port thing again, then the company has to reflag in *mumblemumble* to maintain competivity. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but that's the way the industry goes. As long as there's a market for the Pride of America, she'll stay... But with the current economic situation, it's not likely. My friends on cruise ships are updating their resumes right now.

[StarFox]

yes but our goal was not to return her to service, but to have her turned into a hotel/museum ship.

The major problem facing all operators of old ships right now is the new SOLAS 2010 regulations. most of these old ex liners would require extensive rebuilding to meet the new regulations, so we are trying to take the best and most well know ships and get them preserved as static hotel/museum's

if SOLAS was not due to take effect for another 10 years, sure, keep them sailing, but its only 2 years around the corner

[StarFox]

I have been told by a single person that the ship being turned away from Hawaii was a lie that I made up, he said he had read news against it

of course, after over 3 hours reading news.....I have not found anything to confirm that report......I think he was just trying to make me look like an idiot.....which of course made him look like an idiot...because he had no clue what he was talking about.

In fact, I found a story today that the Coast Guard in Hawaii released, saying that the ship is no threat to public health, but allowing the ship in would put Hawaii in legal trouble in case of a court case....which is exactly what we told them would happen according to the Basal Convention. Looks like they did listen to us afterall.

So the ship is suppose to be on her way to Guam, although no request for entry has been filed, so she very well may not end up in guam. That all the information I have

I have also read that several groups are talking with NCL that should they not restore the ship, to come up with some deal with NCL that avoids having the ship scrapped. I myself have been trying to contact NCL, will try again today with the hope of better luck.

So the saga continues....

[Etienne]

So the ship is suppose to be on her way to Guam, although no request for entry has been filed, so she very well may not end up in guam. That all the information I have

There have been precedents of scrappers saying one thing when the tow starts, then doing something entirely different. Especially if the tow has attracted public or legal attention... If the USCG interfered with the process, that ship probably isn't going to put into a US controlled port again.

But tows are slow, so they have plenty of time to fill a NOA.

[Kapitan]

We cant save every ship that had some past, eventually it would either just fall apart, become uneconomical, sink, capsize ect ect.

oriana the origional one she ended her days in a chinese breakers,

canberra a falklands war vetran one of only two liners that saw active service since WW2

QE2 she is being sold i bet she too ends in a breakers in india some day

the only few ships i know that have defied is the HMS Victory, and the only reason she is maintained to the standard she is, is simply because she remains the flag ship of the royal navy.

[StarFox]

yes but these two (Independence and the United States) have history behind they, more so in the United States, but the Independence also has had her own fame

Overall, the most important ship right now to Save, is the SS United States. She means more then any other ships on our watch list combined. She is the biggest and best America has ever built. And hopfully with time, she will be born into a second life as the National Icon that she is

[StarFox]

And the saga continues....

The Independence has disapeared from the map completly, no one has any idea where the ship is anymore, and as far as I know, the tug has no refueled anywhere. Last I heard, the EPA (taking our advice) wants to conduct tests on the ship to decide wheather she contains toxic material.

SS United States is still sitting. We have recieved some new intelegence (sounds like a war for the ship almost....) that is pretty worrying, and are working to confirm and prevent any danger to the ship, were not waiting this time, were going to act right now!!

Alex and Corey have been working on "something" and cannot tell me but, but I can say I cant wait to hear what it is. From how Corey mentioned it, it sounds exciting, but then again, it may turn out to be noting

I have been talking with Susan Gibbs (granddaughter of William Francis Gibbs, the ships desinger) who runs the SS United States Concervancy, and according to her, there are efforts in play for a post NCL era for the ship, who knows what that could mean, but I hope it helps save the ship in time.

And of course, as always, i urge everyone to email senators and represenatives to help further the effort to save the ship. If anyone lives in the State of New York and wants to help, have an essay of sorts I want to send to senator Hillary Clinton, but she will not respond to people out of state. I would love to have this sent to her, so if anyone is willing to help, I would be greatful

On sadder news, the scrapping of the SS Norway has started removing the Superstructure and bridge of the SS France, it is now at the point of no Return. I gave up on the Norway as soon as I learned of her troubles, because she was already on the beach. Once a ship hits the beach, its pretty much too late. However her story may still prove useful in preventing the same fate from happening to the SS Independence. the same trickery was used, and no one will be fooled this time

[Etienne]

And of course, as always, i urge everyone to email senators and represenatives to help further the effort to save the ship. If anyone lives in the State of New York and wants to help, have an essay of sorts I want to send to senator Hillary Clinton, but she will not respond to people out of state. I would love to have this sent to her, so if anyone is willing to help, I would be greatful

She's probably a bit busy right now, what with running for president and all that.

As for the tug, well, it's pretty easy (Albeit a bit of an annoyance) to arrange refueling at sea for those things. Do you have the name of the tug?

[StarFox]

yea, but I figure if I send enough emails, one of them will be noticed sooner of later

Tug's name is Pacific Hickory I believe, and she has already be in trouble once for some sort of illegal activity, but i cannot recall what it was

[Mr Quatro]

http://www.mvariety.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=7314&format=html

Looks like we may have made a difference after all

Also I have been Told by Corey that the SS United States still contains PCBs and Asbestos in her engineering spaces, which is not much, but enough to make a fuss about. I am still hoping for a maricle rescue of the Big U, although nothing has really changed since 1996, in the back of my mind I am hoping that NCL will come though, but recent events say otherwise

If anyone knows some rich friends that want to buy a rusted old ship with loads of possible uses, now would be a good time to speak
[/SIZE]

Starfox might not be with us anymore, but his dream lives on:http://www.torontosun.com/2016/02/05/ss-united-states-ocean-liner-could-be-restored-to-luxury

On its maiden voyage in 1952, the liner's 268,000-horsepower engines propelled it across the Atlantic in three days, 10 hours, 42 minutes. That record stood until 1990. The ship was decommissioned in 1969.


It's a miracle I tell you someone (Crystal Cruises) is going to bring the old SS United States back to life again after being dockside since 1970.

They even want her running again with 400 hundred luxury cabins to the tune of some estimated $700 million dollars.

They could build a new one for less, but this is still a real answer to prayer

[Kapitan]

Problem is will she meet solas 2015 regulations ?

[Eichhörnchen]

http://i.imgur.com/XQ21CYd.jpg