Sick Idea

[snwcrsh]

I am kind of fascinated with the idea to do a complete patrol in real time. Yes, you may not use time compression once, even to factor 2x.

Besides from really experiencing what a submarine patrol was like most of the times (deadly boring that is), you'd need to adapt a sleeping schedule that works with the actions ingame. Only thing we'd need would be some kind of real loud alarm if something is sighted. (by the way, why are there no false alarms, e.g. gull mistaken for airplane, wouldn't that be a nice feature for gwx 2.1?)

Alas, I'd need another thing: A different job. My boss would not allow me to patrol the Atlantic for four weeks, not even virually :(

[Avatar]

Pick up a copy the first subsim almanac, 2007. Someone did that once, pausing only for work. You could get a whole lot of reading done!

[snwcrsh]

I actually let SH3 run in realime during my work (which is at the computer, so it's perfect).

I made it 82 kilometres out of Wilhelmshaven during my shift today and nothing happened, as expected. Oh I did a dive drill during lunchtime, though!

[Avatar]

Now youre talking! No time away from the computer and no time away from sh3.
Just remember to coat your eggs in wax, can all of your edibles, drink instant milk, and lotsa lemons!
This could even be a scientific study on the effects of cabin fever too.:doh:

I've often thought of doing this, but sitting there looking at the computer screen would bore me to death. I do exit a port while in real time, though.

[snwcrsh]

I remember coming home to Kiel from my first patrol ever i did in SH3. I forced myself let the last hour of arrival happen in realtime (i played the patrol for at least a week though). And it SUCKED! It was in the middle of the night, it was raining and as you imagine pitch black. I could barely see the watchguard.

In the last 5 minutes I could finally see some lights and eventually heard the band playing (wtf, at 3 a.m. in the night and in a rainstorm!?)

After that I'm usually not so touchy regarding real time anymore...

[Knipper]

Goddit snwcrsh :up: For real-time patrols, maybe the modders could build in alerts that sent a text message to your mobile phone. Imagine, "Sorry boss, an enemy warship has been soptted bearing 354 and closing. It's long range and only doing 6kts so I might just have time to make it home in time to slip it an eel."

[bookworm_020]

I couldn't cope doing a mission without time compression. I would go nuts after the first hour!:doh:

[FIREWALL]

I'm retired and could acually do this but ...

My wife wants everything in her name first.

[trongey]

If you're doing it realtime then you'll probably want to follow this checkist to ensure complete realism.
How to Simulate Life on a Submarine in Your Own Home (http://www.trolinger.com/david/simulate.html):up: (note: small amount of mature language)

Tony

[Dowly]

Pick up a copy the first subsim almanac, 2007. Someone did that once, pausing only for work. You could get a whole lot of reading done!

Ooor read his story from the archives. :up:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1/viewtopic.php?t=32647&highlight=wrratt

[snwcrsh]

Heh, thank you for the links, great reading! :-)

[snwcrsh]

Actually... it's worth a try. I'm out 9 hours already, why not? That actually would give me time to craft a real patrol report. There would need to be one restriction though: Since during work the program will run in the background with sound muted it needs to go in pause when ship/plane is spotted.

I think I can set this via SH Commander to say speed "0" when this happens?

[Badger Finn]

I remember coming home to Kiel from my first patrol ever i did in SH3. I forced myself let the last hour of arrival happen in realtime (i played the patrol for at least a week though). And it SUCKED! It was in the middle of the night, it was raining and as you imagine pitch black. I could barely see the watchguard.

In the last 5 minutes I could finally see some lights and eventually heard the band playing (wtf, at 3 a.m. in the night and in a rainstorm!?)

After that I'm usually not so touchy regarding real time anymore...


:rotfl:

Those guys & gals are always partying! I dont think they ever leave the wharf

:huh:

[Letum]

To quote my self:

"Read this if you have ever thought about a 1xTC patrol.

Disclaimer:
This is a rant and only my humble opinion on the matter.

I have completed more than one 1xTC (with saves!).
The only reason I do 1xTC is because I read a lot and listen to BBC Radio 4 or 7 and it's not like my PC has anything better to do.
I can't play SH3 at high TC at the same time because it interrupts to much. I could play at 2 or 32 TC, but the screen-saver pace of 1xTC is all I really need.
If I was not more of a reader than I was a gamer, then I would never play at 1xTC because:

Generally 1xTC makes SH3 a worse game. This should be obvious!
Where do I start?
Spending a hour attacking convoys is obviously a better experience than spending 2 hours watching you boat slowly cross a few miles of empty Atlantic.

1xTC does not make SH3 more realistic.
This is also obvious! You don't get more of a idea of what it is like to be in a u-boat by sitting in a room for hours where SH3 is running at 1xTC.

1xTC does not reveal hidden beautys in the game.
A in-game sunset does not become more beautiful just because it lasts 2 hours.

Using higher TC does not mess up the game.
Using 2084xTC will mess up the air attacks and destroyer detection, but 256TC or 512TC will not mess up the game at all!

The advantages are not worth it.
There are some advantages to 1xTC. You do get a bigger buzz when you see a convoy and there is a nice feeling when you dock at port. However, it is never worth waiting 100+ hours for this.


But....
As a occasionally-interactive screen saver SH3 at 1xTC is great! :up:
That is the only reason I would advocate 1xTC and it is the only way I ever use it.


I can't stand people who claim 1xTC is a "wonderful experience". There are some nice bits, but if you are just playing SH3 you will enjoy it far more at higher TC.
The people who say 1xTC is wonderful show the same absurd kind of self-fooling elitism that causes some modern art* lovers to claim that some, clearly terrible, paintings are in-fact genius.
If someone tells them that the thing they like is actually crap they look down their noses and say "you just can't appreciate it". they honestly believe that only they have the intellect can appreciate the qualities of the art or, in this case, 1xTC.
Arrogant idiots! :down:

Rant over. ;)

*I do not dislike modern art, most of it is genuinely good.

*edit* Please excuse my extremely hectic word processing and use of poor grammer. :arrgh!:"

[snwcrsh]

That was... kind of surprising!

First of all, I'm not taking offense in any way (neither do I believe that I need to explain myself, probably I will nontheless).

Interesting post, for sure. At least something to think about. I'm definitely no elitist who thinks no TC is the only way for pure realism or whatever. Some people who have read my (few so far) introductionary posts know that I'm not playing for 100% realism primarily (did I ask for flags on the sub!?).

I always agreed along the lines that everybody should play any game in the way they like (let's leave multiplayer games out of this). Long ago it started with the cheating discussion or is it okay to edit your game file?

The only one who can answer this is the player doing it. it's his game, and his choice. If it's makes him happy it's probably a good choice, if not....

I like realism in some aspects. In some weird ones I guess. Of course I accept TC as totally acceptable (and I naturally I am using it... now, it would be *really* sick if someone is new to SH and goes out on his first patrol insisting that he will do it with no TC ...)

Actually, it comes down that I agree with Letum, so this is more or less pointless. And I I kinda like the idea that Silent Hunter will accompany me all day, while I never know what happens. And I can order drills at will should I be bored and have no work to do.

It's a great screen saver, actually. Quite interactive too. And what other scrennsaver can crash because you fail at geometry?

But in any way, I'm coming back to my problem: Can I set up SH commander in a way that the game will pause when something is spotted? And, maybe more importantly, can I apply this change while out on patrol?

Same as below (or above, depending on your setting): Please ignore embarrasing typos, grammar etc...

[snwcrsh]

Hmm, the problem I have is, when I run SH in windowed mode and switch away from the task, the sound output from that application is dropped.

I don't know if there is a windows way fix to it, but that would work too. Because if it's in a background and 2 planes are spotted and my crew calmly goes to periscope depth and waits ... this might not do the trick

[3Jane]

I think setting the time compression to 0 in the SHIII-C options might pause it when something is spotted. From 100 Km out I always finish off the remainder in real time.

[snwcrsh]

I think setting the time compression to 0 in the SHIII-C options might pause it when something is spotted.

That was my first thought, haven't tried it though. Do you think you can run this change on a running patrol?

[Ula Jolly]

The people who say 1xTC is wonderful show the same absurd kind of self-fooling elitism that causes some modern art* lovers to claim that some, clearly terrible, paintings are in-fact genius."
I do not think what comes after this section is a good way to comment on someone attempting to play the game in a new and unordinary way. :) I have never attempted it (God knows I have better things to do with my time), but I am sure that many would find it a unique experience, if nothing else. It may not be better, but maybe to some it won't compare.

As for the art link, I feel this is where I have anything resembling competence to comment on your approach in dismissing 1xTC. Having studied a few epoches of art, its history, and feeling all tingly when I read about (and saw!) Monet's paintings from the impressionism, I think there is something to art that goes beyond the eye. It just so happens that we live in modernistic times, and in many forms of art, there are many expressions.
As a result of the many artists, of the many emotions and feelings, reactions against the world and what happens in it, we have lately given birth to a new line of abstract art. Abstract expressionism is the term coined for it (de Kooning, eg). Individuals, with individual expressions, performed and made in such ways that they matter more to the human that does it.

Look to the impressionism (Claude Monet (http://www.normandy-tapestry.com/images/monet-claude-garden-path-at-giverny-2601962.jpg)), where paintings were, indeed, paintings. Trees looked like trees, ocean like ocean, so what set it apart? The IDEA of art. The idea that we should be out here, in God's free nature, and finish this piece awfully fast so we can get the light JUST right. Like nobody else has ever done before us. That's impressionism. The strokes were hard, thick at times, and rapid. You see the individual strokes. Before this, paintings were meticulous in their details, artists spent months on single paintings. An impressionist painting was done in a matter of hours, not even that.

What is my point now? It is to draw the focus towards just how reactions and emotions do weird things to art. Let us skip ahead a few decades. Look to Mexican monumentalism. The term is coined so well. We have trees that look like trees, and the ocean is ocean, but that's not painted at ALL. What is painted are the political realities, the humans that struggle against the state, and about the individual that is experiencing agony as he goes through life. Diego Rivera (http://www.disciplemexico.org/static/uploaded_images/Mural_Diego_Rivera-758810.jpg) comes to mind, and his... what's the term? Souse? Frida, anyway. Art is a MONUMENT! To the PEOPLE! Who, in the midst of a rousing revolution akin to that of the Mexicans, could toss away these thoughts? And when Lenin gave you a visitas? It's... it's beyond comprehension just how forceful this art is. But humans look like ****. It's not a depiction! It's a deeper mirror into the world, the soul, the humans that surround us, and revolution.

Hardly decades later, we encounter the abstraction that has become so confusing to so many. A lot would dismiss Diego as clueless (he obviously didn't know anatomy, right?), but what came now, just before WWII, and thriving today, is an artform called abstract expressionism. It envelops many, many, many lines of thought. I could write you a book on this issue, no doubt, and I think you too would feel the magic if just from reading, if not also seeing examples that are embodiments of what artists felt and wanted to do! As I said, you can write a lot about the different forms of art that take shape during this long period, and which follow an abstract and confusing line. Some of it is simple, political anti-socialism, and arguably the USA may have brought this upon the public, as many forms of it was funded directly. But you know what I mean by abstract. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Mondrian_Comp10.jpg) The crap makes no sense! And, it doesn't have to.
At first it was all about... striking emotions, the fluxes of human thought and mind. It was about a lot. Some said "Hey, I'll make a painting that's just red, with some black stripes on it. Pure colour. That'll look nice on a wall." - and it did look nice on a wall. Indeed so nice, there was no reason not to serial produce it. Somewhere, it is no longer art, it transcends (or descends) into a commodity. Trivial stuff we don't have any relationship to. This doesn't go for all modern art - far from it - but some actually desire only to make it look nice.

My approach to modern, abstract art is to put it all into one box, and wonder about the perplexity of it all. It looks wonderful, and there're obviously something about the epoche, if not the actual piece, that makes it worth looking at. That way I avoid turning my skull over the question "Did the artist spend more than five minutes on this? Was this an accident? It doesn't fit in my head, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it. How many people painted good pictures, with perfect anatomy, yet it never struck the art critic as good enough? Indeed, trash? Like I can enjoy that some praise 1xTC, I can enjoy a good, modern piece. And, by the way, I enjoy NONE more than Piet Mondrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piet_Mondrian) (see the two last paintings). Why? I don't know. But it's genious. I love how it tingles in the back of my head. Look at the design! What did he mean? I have jack all clue, but if he did it just to please someone, he managed to. He humoured many - by intent or not - and angered those that suddenly felt that art was elitist.
Monumentalism belonged to the people. Modern art belongs to the individual.

I would like to write more, actually, but I am already a bit too excited for a Tuesday night (00:30 now!), and I have school in seven hours! I hope I have made a good impression, and that you may see my reasons for feeling you are misunderstanding and being wrong about '1xTC'ers'. :D

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I think setting the time compression to 0 in the SHIII-C options might pause it when something is spotted.

That was my first thought, haven't tried it though. Do you think you can run this change on a running patrol?
Yes it works, yes you can (IIRC I changed the TC settings many times midpatrol).

But leaving the port is just a horror. :rotfl:

[snwcrsh]

Yes it works, yes you can (IIRC I changed the TC settings many times midpatrol).

But leaving the port is just a horror. :rotfl:
Ah good news. You mean, because ships dont remember their routes? Well, I left port far behind (sim running 12 hours \o/) -- will they remember their stuff if -- no WHEN I come back at least? Not that it would matter much, though. As I heard it's only "cosmetical", the ships will respawn anyway.

OH! And another question: Is it possible (via SHC for instance) to "sync" the ingame time with the real time (windows clock) Or maybe just set the time for the patrol specifically? That would rock :)

[Abd_von_Mumit]

Yes it works, yes you can (IIRC I changed the TC settings many times midpatrol).

But leaving the port is just a horror. :rotfl:
Ah good news. You mean, because ships dont remember their routes? Well, I left port far behind (sim running 12 hours \o/) -- will they remember their stuff if -- no WHEN I come back at least? Not that it would matter much, though. As I heard it's only "cosmetical", the ships will respawn anyway.
No, I mean your game pauses every ten seconds. :) And on the very beginning when you try to just run your engine, you can't do it, because after unpausing the game you have too little time to press '2' before it pauses again. :rotfl:

OH! And another question: Is it possible (via SHC for instance) to "sync" the ingame time with the real time (windows clock) Or maybe just set the time for the patrol specifically? That would rock :)
First: I strongly doubt.
Second: I don't know, but I remember seing the exact "mission start" info when browsing my campaign files. I'd say there is chance that changing any value will break your save, but again I just don;t know, as I never do it. :-?

[snwcrsh]

Letum: After thinking about your post for a while, I think I have to rather disagree -- not on your point but on your reasons. At least on three fo four, which were:

Generally 1xTC makes SH3 a worse game. This should be obvious!

1xTC does not make SH3 more realistic.

1xTC does not reveal hidden beautys in the game.

Using higher TC does not mess up the game.

I disagree with all but the last one -- definitely TC is a feature that *should* be used, and the game would be dead if there wasn't TC implemented. And it should be used (even by me) for the sake of ... everything).

BUT, (big But) it's still a choice. you can run the game in the speed of your choice. It does not mess up the game if you are running it on 1TC either. It willl mess up *your* game if you are bored by it, though. It is the same as, let's say, some people like to patrol on 64x while others do it on 128x (or whatever). We can argue here, but fact is that everybody will chose the TC he feels comfortable with. If it's TCx1, why not?

That's why I disagree with point 1 -- Generally TCx1 does NOT make SH3 a worse game. It only makes it a worse game if you don't like it. One might argue that GWX or OLC makes SH3 a worse game -- let them think so, it's fine. They can use stock SH3. People who can't live with TCx1 don't need to either, they can fast forward.

Second point, realism. You claim it doesnt enhance realism in any way. Yet you give no reasons why not. Obviously it doesnt harm realism either. So, please ask yourself, what is closer?`A version where the captain can click his magic watch and let those desolate moments where nothing happens fly away in a whimp? or a version where he can't? Of course, it's nothing close to the real thing (someone posted http://www.trolinger.com/david/simulate.html before, it fits here), but it at least get you really grasp the vast stretches of time where you would be bored. I say *would* because I luckily am not -- I am busy with other things, I'm just simulating this, but yes, running more or less as a screensaver.

But it get's very different from a screensaver once you encounter action. It *will* happen, sooner or later, even if you must go on 2 boring patrols before. And this brings me to the third point where I disagree: When you played a campaign for 6 month in more o less real time and after no big events you finally contact an enemy task force with a British carrier... wouldn't you cherish that moment even more than if you used 1024 TC to get there?

Kaleun Bosch out. Err snwcrsh. Alas, I'm drunk. Must be the Grog!

[3Jane]

I tend to mix the two, depending on how I feel. I have TC set to 256 maximum but that is just for the large empty areas like the early war mid atlantic and such like. Otherwise I tend to stick to 128. I spread that out with a few hours X1 as time and mood suit.

[Blacklight]

I enjoyed the 2 1x patrols I did (Of course I had to save game every once in a while when I had to leave my "Sub Room"). I didn't spend all this time stareing blankly at the screen. I usually sit at my workbench in here and work on the building of experimental musical/non-musical instruments. I also have a comfy reading nook where I like to sit and read. I would just set my course and let the crew handle stuff. If someone called out a contact, I would check it out.

This is a nice game to run and play 1x if you're doing other stuff in the same room where it won't kill you to jump up and run to the computer once in a while.

The experience isn't for everyone and I can honestly say, I rarely do 1x, but I DO have two careers set up. One is always 1x and the other I use time compression on. Which career I run depends on what I feel like doing that day.:up:

[snwcrsh]

Yes it works, yes you can (IIRC I changed the TC settings many times midpatrol).

But leaving the port is just a horror. :rotfl:
Ah good news. You mean, because ships dont remember their routes? Well, I left port far behind (sim running 12 hours \o/) -- will they remember their stuff if -- no WHEN I come back at least? Not that it would matter much, though. As I heard it's only "cosmetical", the ships will respawn anyway. No, I mean your game pauses every ten seconds. :) And on the very beginning when you try to just run your engine, you can't do it, because after unpausing the game you have too little time to press '2' before it pauses again. :rotfl: :-?

ARGH! I haven't thought about that. Hehe, yeah that's evil Okay, well the plan would be If running out of port i use normal SHC settings. Once clear of standard traffic, ill reload the game with SHC settings to pause on contanct. That should work?

As for the time synchronization... I thought so... was worth to ask, but I guess I can live with desynced time. Not worth the effort to meddle with the files and risk some unknown CTD.

Thanks for the help!

[Abd_von_Mumit]

ARGH! I haven't thought about that. Hehe, yeah that's evil Okay, well the plan would be If running out of port i use normal SHC settings. Once clear of standard traffic, ill reload the game with SHC settings to pause on contanct. That should work?
No need to do that, just set your desired TC and run your patrol. It will make your departure only a few minutes longer, compared to reloading game which will make your departure at least (I suppose) 15 minutes or more longer and much less enjoyable. :up:

[snwcrsh]

Abd: true indeed, the loading times are insane. this actually reminds me of good old times with floppy disks. well, at least i dont have to worry about it anytime soon, as I am out already :)

Mikhayl: I was thinking about that, but it will go out of think sooner or later anyhow, so the whole idea doesnt work. Any reboot/need to restart, pause, crash or whatever would desync clocks so... doesnt matter. was just a weird idea :)

[snwcrsh]

Alas, this is what we it looks like. The sight hasnt changed much since we parted 13 hours ago, only that it got lighter.

http://geheimgemein.de/video/yawn.jpg


As being mentioned before, I don't expect any enemy contact within the next 30 hours or so. Unless we get very lucky in the Nordsee. Passing AN95 heading for eastern British coast. I expect a good sleep.

But: Is it possible to mod the game in a way that when it spots a ship it would additionally cry alarm and make noise (if it *is* in forground, though). That would make my nights more interesting :)

[Stealth Hunter]

*looks at command bar*

HELLLOOOO....

Link to download it?

[snwcrsh]

That's OLC's GUI for GWX.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124639

[Knipper]

Playing at 1 TC would be cool only if you have a real stinky and sweaty crew who shares dirty jokes with you all the day, and if you could experience the thrill of trying to crap over the railings on a high sea.
Sounds familiar. I used to work on a cruise liner.:lol:

[mcf1]

real time patrol? im evem getting bored with TC at 1024 when nothing happens. i only exit and enter port at real time

[Canovaro]

Goddit snwcrsh :up: For real-time patrols, maybe the modders could build in alerts that sent a text message to your mobile phone. Imagine, "Sorry boss, an enemy warship has been soptted bearing 354 and closing. It's long range and only doing 6kts so I might just have time to make it home in time to slip it an eel."

great idea :rotfl:

[trongey]

Playing at 1 TC would be cool only if you have a real stinky and sweaty crew who shares dirty jokes with you all the day, and if you could experience the thrill of trying to crap over the railings on a high sea.
Sounds familiar. I used to work on a cruise liner.:lol:
:o
Umm, that's it. I'm definitely NOT going on any cruises.

[Jimbuna]

LOL :rotfl:

[Blacklight]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knipper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhayl
Playing at 1 TC would be cool only if you have a real stinky and sweaty crew who shares dirty jokes with you all the day, and if you could experience the thrill of trying to crap over the railings on a high sea.


Sounds familiar. I used to work on a cruise liner.:lol:

:o
Umm, that's it. I'm definitely NOT going on any cruises.

Or if you do... make sure your room isn't on one of the lower decks.:rotfl:

[Laufen zum Ziel]

At 1X when I go to bed I dive to 30m (after checking depth) and motate at slow with my crew resting. I also got a cheap wireless intercom from Radio Shack and set one unit up near the PC speaker and carry the other with me so I can hear the crew when I take a leak or go for a beer. Because of the intercom at night when I play 1X I am in the spar BR because wife objects to being woken up with a bunch of german guys yelling about their oxygen I am retired so I can 1X once in a while. however use 128 most of the time.

[Blacklight]

At 1X when I go to bed I dive to 30m (after checking depth) and motate at slow with my crew resting. I also got a cheap wireless intercom from Radio Shack and set one unit up near the PC speaker and carry the other with me so I can hear the crew when I take a leak or go for a beer. Because of the intercom at night when I play 1X I am in the spar BR because wife objects to being woken up with a bunch of german guys yelling about their oxygen I am retired so I can 1X once in a while.

My wife would KILL me if I did this. :D (And I'm so considering doing it too !:D )
.....
My wife just told me that she didn't want to live in a U-boat so I'm not allowed to do this :D

[Knipper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knipper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhayl
Playing at 1 TC would be cool only if you have a real stinky and sweaty crew who shares dirty jokes with you all the day, and if you could experience the thrill of trying to crap over the railings on a high sea.


Sounds familiar. I used to work on a cruise liner.:lol:

:o
Umm, that's it. I'm definitely NOT going on any cruises.

Or if you do... make sure your room isn't on one of the lower decks.:rotfl:

...or down wind...:lol: