Visual range of destroyers?

[Sebbe02]

Hey,

I was trying to intercept a convoy the other day. I got closer using the hydrophone, but in the last part i went up to the surface to get enough speed to overcome the convoy. Clear, perfect weather by the way.

A minute later, my deck watch got sight of the first destroyer. I immediately turned away and ordered ahead flank in order to get ahead of the convoy for a good shot (I was going for the juicy Nelson in the middle!).

But then one of the destroyers got sight of me... I tried again, the same happened.

My question: can destroyers always see further than your deck watch? It has to be, he was at the extremeties of my visual range...

[Badger Finn]

AfAIK it can depend on atmospheres 8k and 16 k both have there + & -

Theres tweak files around for sensors etc youll have to do some reading mayby to figure what style of play you are into for whatever tweaks you find its all here...

"Search" is your friend

:yep:

[seafarer]

It would make sense they can see further though. Their lookouts are posted at a vantage point much higher then those on your uboat, so their visual range should be considerably further over the horizon then you.

[snwcrsh]

I don't know. On the other hand the DD is much higher. How was it historically regarding visual range, was the DD or the sub in advantage?

[Mikey_Wolf]

It would make sense they can see further though. Their lookouts are posted at a vantage point much higher then those on your uboat, so their visual range should be considerably further over the horizon then you.

Not nescasserily! ;)

What one must remember is that at great distance a U-Boat even in daylight is near invisible due to how low to the water it is. A lookout would see a smoke trail for sure of a regular ship, but a U-Boat moving at a slow speed on the surface should be practically invisible. :up: It would take a very very good spotter to recognise a U-Boat on the Horizon.

[TomcatMVD]

What's the year?
You might be a victim of the fearsome allied new radar technology.

[seafarer]

As the op said though, "clear perfect weather". On a calm sea in good light, a lookout posted high above the water on a ship is going to be able to see a lot further then a lookout on a uboat. And they had pretty good glasses too - those on rigid stalked mounts often were as much as 20+ power magnification with much larger objective lenses then the handheld glasses used by uboat lookouts.

At night, it would be much harder, but daylight, in good weather - I'd give odds the escort would be able to spot you from a very long way away (assuming the lookouts were up to snuff, not layabouts staring at the insides of their own eyelids :D ).

[Sebbe02]

It was '40, so radar was impossible.

Guess I just got bad luck. Anyway, how the story ended: one of the escorts saw me, and shells came flying over my head. We went to 100m below (after taking a hit, but nothing serious) and tried to avoid the DC's. No luck tough, got hit twice, the first wasn't that bad, but it took out my periscopes, so the mission was allready over. The second however sent me straight to Davy Jones' Locker, without even a bit of deathstruggle or agony in between...:arrgh!:

Guess I've been a bit too long out of the game...

[MarkShot]

See my other thread with testing. My basic conclusions were:

In perfect conditions with the 16km mod, the player can see well further than the AI.

However in poor conditions with the 16km mod, the AI can see well further than the player.

Additionally, in perfect conditions, the AI exhibits a fairly wide angle field of view. In poor conditions, the AI sees best mainly in the direction of the bow and very poor to the flanks.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=129249

[kiwi_2005]

It would make sense they can see further though. Their lookouts are posted at a vantage point much higher then those on your uboat, so their visual range should be considerably further over the horizon then you.
Yeah but dont forget your in a Uboat that is hard to see when on the surface, i get the same problem, 3 times now i have been trying to get inside this taskforce (Feb 1942 -Grid CO 64) in the Med two nelsons and plenty of escorts who seem to have eyes better than a eagle, once detected, on the surface in rough weather thats it i dive and spend the next hrs evading no point trying to catch up with a taskforce, convoy i would off. So I quit game. Reload a save try again this time im at persicope depth infront of taskforce, apprx 2500yrds travelling at 2knots i raise the scope so its just skimming the water turn to see a destoyer in the distance and yep he spotted me!:damn: Cause im learning manual targetting i need time to set up target etc., well when a destroyer is zeroing in on you, you can feel the sweat dripping down your face!:lol:, down persicope order crash dive and once again im spending the next 1 or so evading.

Oh well i wanted tougher gameplay, yep i got it! Ive reloaded a save and about to try again - 4th time lucky:hmm:

[Penelope_Grey]

It would make sense they can see further though. Their lookouts are posted at a vantage point much higher then those on your uboat, so their visual range should be considerably further over the horizon then you.
Not nescasserily! ;)

What one must remember is that at great distance a U-Boat even in daylight is near invisible due to how low to the water it is. A lookout would see a smoke trail for sure of a regular ship, but a U-Boat moving at a slow speed on the surface should be practically invisible. :up: It would take a very very good spotter to recognise a U-Boat on the Horizon.

Zat is correct! :)

also.... dont forget.... everybody.... the speed you move at also affects your stealth chances. Flying around at Flank is a great way to get spotted.

[MarkShot]

I know I risk being burned at the stake, but personally I have always felt that the difficulty of approaching a convoy submerged is overdone.

From what I can tell:

(1) You cannot do much maneuvering to get into position. You must simply be in position before they get to you. You have to stay slow and very quiet.

(2) If you allow contacts to placed on the map, then you can get a decent picture on the map despite that you personally cannot see squat with the scope. In such a situation it seems that you are much safer from detection than when you can see well. Use the map SA to orient yourself so that when you finally really expose that scope, you are taking the shot.

[kiwi_2005]

[quote=Mikey_Wolf][quote=seafarer]

also.... dont forget.... everybody.... the speed you move at also affects your stealth chances. Flying around at Flank is a great way to get spotted.

Is that on the surface you mean? Well yeah im either standard speed of flank but at persicope depth im 2knots and i get detected, its like a destroyer will be 2500yds away i raise the scope so its skimming the water just high enough to see around and hello that destroyer with eagle eyes has spotted me..

[MarkShot]

I think that's where just using just enough scope to get SA on the map works.

I've noticed that it seems to reduce being spotted, since you don't see the escorts turning towards you on the map.

[danurve]

In my last half dozen or so convoy attacks they have all been started forward of their course.
When I get close to the lead escort I alter course to avoid it's inner cone, then return head on to intercept. Guy's, the best targets are usually steaming in the inner columes. Got tired of trying to fart with the side escorts, waiting for 'them' to give me an opening. Although you can be sucessfull that way oviously.
You can't go barreling into an intercept like this, or presume your scope is low enough, if and when you use it. Large Cargo's, the heavy Tankers, Factory ships and such, I'm after this tonnage, no time to piss around. 80% of the time I escape unscathed, and belive it or not more then once running at periscope depth throughout. I prefer predawn attacks in less the calm seas, but take what I can get into. If someone was to say to me, aww, you just got lucky I would have to call BS. I have used this technique over and over in a VII. And I'll do it again providing I can position the boat. From the N. Atlantic all the way down to Freetown. Doesn't seem to matter.
My point?
Clear, good weather is bad. It will work against you imo most of the time. This isn't the county fair and your not going fishing. You know the Merchants can spot you just as easy on the surface it would seem. Yes the destroyers in GWX are sensitive to their needs. About a year ago, I would have agreed maybe too sensitive. Now, I don't belive that's the case. I'm not slamming or flaming anyone having a rough time getting by them. Its no cake walk.

There is a sticky about the whole uber AI in GWX started about a year ago. Seems like the discussions about sensor - sesitivity - range has been going on since Christ was a corporal. I can only imagine what the conversations withing the GWX team were like getting things to how they are now. I'm using 1.03 & 16k btw. The standard cliche is read the manual, I'd add the sticky to that. Because if you don't figgure out whats doing then how do you expect to beat these so called uber destroyers? A movie quote comes to mind, "A smart enemy, hit's you exactly where you think your safe." Ok think about that for a minute. You are playing the part of the enemy. Now, why do fish school? You know where you need to be, find your way in there.

Yes I know there are plenty of brands that taste just as good, without the caffine. Where's the fun in that?

[kiwi_2005]

Well the only solution for me is i want to tone down the AI. Wheres that tweak program we can use to do this.

I dont mind being depth charge and trying to evade thats fun and challenging but, travelling at 2knots raise the scope in rough whether & i get spotted plus its raining, cloudy how the hell could they spot my scope I got it up for not more than 15 seconds just to have a quick look around and that uber L33t leet destroyer way over on the horizon spots my scope!:rotfl:To most that might be yeah thats realism but to me thats over-the-top. Then again i should keep in mind this is a taskforce im trying to attack so the destroyers shouldn't be wondering around half asleep.

This will be my 5th attempt, this time im going to come to an all stop and fire blindly by sonar. I aint going to stop trying till i sink me a nelson even if it takes me months!:) . At least the saves work fine!

[MarkShot]

I just slipped past a number of destroyers.

Seriously, if you are playing with map contacts, then try flipping back and forth between the attack scope and the map. Just raise the scope enough to get sonar lines to drop and the contacts to be put on the map. At that point, you with your own eyes wouldn't really catch much through the scope. But you will situational awareness enough to avoid collisions or shoot.

Another thing which I have noticed is that once the destroyers have passed, you they seem a lot less likely to spot your scope in their rear quarter. Like I have said elsewhere, I think the AI has a forward visibility fixation.

Try that.

[kiwi_2005]

I just slipped past a number of destroyers.

Seriously, if you are playing with map contacts, then try flipping back and forth between the attack scope and the map. Just raise the scope enough to get sonar lines to drop and the contacts to be put on the map. At that point, you with your own eyes wouldn't really catch much through the scope. But you will situational awareness enough to avoid collisions or shoot.



I'll turn on map contacts in next patrol :up:

[Sniper_Fox]

if you can see him, he can see you... end of story lol

[Ducimus]

Without getting into details so i don't ruffle some feathers, all im going to say, is if its daylight, and the weather is clear and calm, regardless of what year it is, stay submerged.

[Sniper_Fox]

unless your me... clear weather calm seas? SCREW IT!!! ALL AHEAD FLANK!!! OPEN BAY DOORS 1,2,3 AND 4! TORPEDO LOS!!!!:rock: lol