Bush overrules judge in US navy-v-dolphins sonar case

[SUBMAN1]

Submarines are becoming an ever incresing threat, so too bad for the bleeding hearts - we need to train on sonar.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/17/bush_sonar_whales_dolphins_judge_overrule/

-S

[sonar732]

Unbelievable! For an environmental group to complain that the technology which, since WW2, has shown it's advantage of protecting a fleet from shear destruction...and ultimately their freedom.

[baggygreen]

Oh come on sonar... these gits would rather there wasnt a navy, so they could be fed to the whales as fish food! :rotfl:

[3Jane]

The typical asinine responses to a serious environmental issue.

[Letum]

There are compromises that can be reached for both species.

[SUBMAN1]

There are compromises that can be reached for both species.That is right, and that doesn't include giving up sonar. Of course, the US would agree to give up Sonar completely if all other countries agree to give up their submarines! :D Thats only fair ya know!

Some *sshat will say that Bush is being unreasonable though anyway.

-S

[sonar732]

The typical asinine responses to a seriouse environmental issue.

As the typical response from someone who doesn't understand his freedom to complain about a serious environmental issue.:arrgh!::arrgh!:

[baggygreen]

Okay sourpusses, a more serious response:D

Whales migratory seasons are well documented. Plan exercises around them.

For example. You train when the whales are in the antarctic ocean, you dont when theyre nearby.

[SUBMAN1]

Okay sourpusses, a more serious response:D

Whales migratory seasons are well documented. Plan exercises around them.

For example. You train when the whales are in the antarctic ocean, you dont when theyre nearby.Not sure it matter much since Sonar to whales carries thousands of miles.

-S

[sonar732]

Okay sourpusses, a more serious response:D

Whales migratory seasons are well documented. Plan exercises around them.

For example. You train when the whales are in the antarctic ocean, you dont when theyre nearby.

They are complaining about more species than just whales. No matter what you do, neither group will be pleased as the environmentalist will complain about all species in a designated testing grid, while the pro-military group will complain that you can't schedule a test in a specific area of the ocean at a specific time to avoid animal populations as you can avoid one species in a grid, attempt to go to another grid and hope there isn't yet another species to avoid...never ending series of events.

[Jimbuna]

For example. You train when the whales are in the antarctic ocean, you dont when theyre nearby.

As long as your enemies agree to attack at the same time of year.....in consideration of the whales of course ;)

[Zachstar]

Before you talk about protection and freedom keep in mind that active sonar gives your enemy nice TMA solutions.

Against kilos or other modern submarines... Active sonar is almost stupid until you hear them on passive first.

Active sonar without getting returns is like saying "Shoot me!"

However, I do not like the way bush did this. I have read enough that proves to me that this is a violation of law.

More scandals can do more damage to the economy. The navy ought to just have accepted the ruling and blasted the water somewhere else.

[sonar732]

Active sonar is almost stupid until you hear them on passive first.

Active sonar without getting returns is like saying "Shoot me!"

I might not be an STG, but I'm pretty sure the command and U.S. Navy tactics are aware of this. That's why they wait until they have a decent contact and need a verified range to target before pinging away. It's not the old days of WW2 or even thru the 60's you know.

EDIT: Our WLR-9 receiver didn't give us a range...only bearing.

[August]

What about sonar buoys?

[Zachstar]

What about sonar buoys?

2 pings and the sub knows its there. and how to steer around it.

Anyway I think the situation isnt about passive vs active. Its more about how bush with a single stroke voids a court ruling.

Even if it was legal.. The power he holds is extreme.

[August]

What about sonar buoys?

2 pings and the sub knows its there. and how to steer around it.

Hence my use of the plural. But I only mentioned them in response to the idea that active sonar endangers the ship using it.

Anyway I think the situation isnt about passive vs active. Its more about how bush with a single stroke voids a court ruling.

Even if it was legal.. The power he holds is extreme.

Well not for nothing do they call the President the most powerful man in the world, but i'd rather see the result of the legal challenges to his orders before i'd claim they weren't within his rights to order.

[sonar732]

What about sonar buoys?

Good thought August...how can a plane or helicopter avoid any animal life if they can't see it? They might have a slim chance of hearing it on their passive buoys...I can see that happening...Sir, we have biologics at bearing 315...better hold off on the active buoy even though I have a strong 50hz tonal at bearing 270 hiding with them.:roll::roll::roll:

[CCIP]

I have a strong 50hz tonal at bearing 270 hiding with them.:roll::roll::roll:
What, every time? :doh:

Forget the anti-sonar law! The US needs to invest in anti-cetatian warfare NOW.