5 torpedos to sink a medium cargo

[schnorchel]

Hi folks,


I have not play the SH3 for a long time until the GWX2.0 released. After install of the GWX I load the torpedo training mission. What makes me frustrated is to sink a medium cargo needs 5 torpedos. All of them roughly hit the middle section of the ship and explode beneath the keel.:damn: I wonder how could it be? Does anyone know some MOD can change the cargo ships vulnerability? Thanks!

[Sigurd]

Welcome Herr Keleun :up:

GWX changes the focus of sinking ships from simply destroying them to damage through flooding. I.E. it may have taken 5 torpedoes to blow the thing to kingdom come, but you should really only need one or two to do enough damage to flood the thing. It takes some getting used to, but you'll get it eventually.

[Zakalwe]

Yup,

first it could last longer till a ships sinks, somwtimes over 1 hour.

Second, aim at different points of the ship to open more compartments for flooding. Shooting at same place doesn`t work well in GWX.

I mostly put the first eel into the bow of the ship (around halfways between bow and bridge). If this isn`t enough, a second torp into the stern.

Greets

Z.

[Jimbuna]

Welcome aboard Kaleun schnorchel.....causing damage to different compartments is a better option. Also allow time for the flooding to take effect :arrgh!:

[Sigurd]

I mostly put the first eel into the bow of the ship (around halfways between bow and bridge). If this isn`t enough, a second torp into the stern.
I usually follow a different tactic in my patrols, especially if I see convoys. I try to hit near the stern first (where I estimate the engine room to be), so they slow down or stop, to make easy pickings later. If it is a convoy, then all I need to do is dodge the destroyers, and when they leave, I have a few merchants and tankers ready to be picked off.

[schnorchel]

Hi all,

Thank u very much for ur quick reply. And in addition sorry for my poor english. The 5 torpedo really hit the the different place of the ship. I mean the 5 big hole line up at the middle section of the bottom of ship. And after the 4th torpedo hit her I wait 24 hours. but nothing happened exept the top of shipboard is more close to the sea surface. That is weird:damn:

[Sigurd]

Hi all,

Thank u very much for ur quick reply. And in addition sorry for my poor english. The 5 torpedo really hit the the different place of the ship. I mean the 5 big hole line up at the middle section of the bottom of ship. And after the 4th torpedo hit her I wait 24 hours. but nothing happened exept the top of shipboard is more close to the sea surface. That is weird:damn:
Hmm, that is a bit strange. Did you fire a salvo, or was it a single shot?

[schnorchel]

only fire 1 torpedo once.:doh:

[Sigurd]

Hmm, my guess then is that you didnt give the torpedoes enough room to deal severe enough damage to the ship (although one would think that four is enough to blow half the hull off). Depending on where they all it, it might have just been four concentrated explosions, as opposed to a group of four spread out under the keel or hull.

Also, depending on what your angle was when you fired (if you used magnetic torpedoes, but I'm going to guess that you used inpact), your shots might have gone under the keel, and then exploded, which doesnt yeild as much damage.

[panzer 49th]

5 torpedos to sink a medium cargo? that is weird even with GWX

[Hanomag]

Welcome Herr Kaluen,


One to two eels is all you really need for most merchant vessels then just hang around and watch the speed drop 6knots...5....4...3...2...1.. Glub! Glub! :up:

Some bigger ships may require more...

[schnorchel]

Sigurd,

I do use megnatic. all of this 5 torpedo are megnatic. But some torpedo do not explode just under the central line of the keel but pass by it and explode on the other side of the ship. but oerall it still very close to the central line. the torpedos depth setting is 1 meter deeper than the ships draft. But via the external view I can see the torpedo is very close to the kneel. I think maybe this is because in history early germany torpedo has depth setting problem.

[mcf1]

That reminds me one patrol when i first got SH3 (stock no mods).
I found a lone C3 and decided to engage with torpedoes because of the stormy weather. From a distance of about 700m and AOB 90 degrees i fired 2 torps aiming for the middle of the ship with the pistol set for impact of course.Both struck it and it got on fire so i waited for it to sink but nothing so i launched another torp and still no kill at the end it sunk after 5 hits. I got mad spending 5 torps for a C3 and reloaded my last save. :damn:

[Sigurd]

Sigurd,

I do use megnatic. all of this 5 torpedo are megnatic. But some torpedo do not explode just under the central line of the keel but pass by it and explode on the other side of the ship. but oerall it still very close to the central line. the torpedos depth setting is 1 meter deeper than the ships draft. But via the external view I can see the torpedo is very close to the kneel. I think maybe this is because in history early germany torpedo has depth setting problem.
Ok, I think I see the problem then. From what youre describing, you were near an AOB of 90 degrees (i'm guessing), so since you were using Magnetics, they passed completely under the keel before exploding, and only did minimal damage, since they didnt fully explode under the ship (the explosion would be sent away from the ship, and probably only catch a small portion of the keel). Since you didnt do as much damage to ship, it took more to damage enough to sink.

I've had it happen a few times to me (including on a large tanker in poor weather with no more torpedoes). AOBs near 90 degrees are better treated with shots hitting the hull of the ship, rather then going under the keel (which are better left to poor AOBs). The reasoning is that the magnetic torpedoes need to sense the metal above it. If you give it only 1.5m, it will arm and detonate after it has moved out from under the keel. If I were to venture a rough guess, I'd say AOBs greater then about... 70 or so should be Impact (or hitting the hull). Less then 70 should be Magnetic. If any more experienced players have better results, please post them.

[schnorchel]

Sigurd,

I do use megnatic. all of this 5 torpedo are megnatic. But some torpedo do not explode just under the central line of the keel but pass by it and explode on the other side of the ship. but oerall it still very close to the central line. the torpedos depth setting is 1 meter deeper than the ships draft. But via the external view I can see the torpedo is very close to the kneel. I think maybe this is because in history early germany torpedo has depth setting problem.
Ok, I think I see the problem then. From what youre describing, you were near an AOB of 90 degrees (i'm guessing), so since you were using Magnetics, they passed completely under the keel before exploding, and only did minimal damage, since they didnt fully explode under the ship (the explosion would be sent away from the ship, and probably only catch a small portion of the keel). Since you didnt do as much damage to ship, it took more to damage enough to sink.

I've had it happen a few times to me (including on a large tanker in poor weather with no more torpedoes). AOBs near 90 degrees are better treated with shots hitting the hull of the ship, rather then going under the keel (which are better left to poor AOBs). The reasoning is that the magnetic torpedoes need to sense the metal above it. If you give it only 1.5m, it will arm and detonate after it has moved out from under the keel. If I were to venture a rough guess, I'd say AOBs greater then about... 70 or so should be Impact (or hitting the hull). Less then 70 should be Magnetic. If any more experienced players have better results, please post them.


Ok! Thanks for you comments. :up: I will try the way just as you advised. Need to go to bed now 1:30 AM at my location.:D

[MarkShot]

Okay, so there is no immediate feedback that a target is history?

So, what do most people do then, just put two fish into something and leave it be?

If it takes one or two hours for it to go down and you have sailed off will you still receive credit or do you need to maintain a certain range?

What about the deck gun? Just aim for the waterline or try to start fires on deck?

Final question: I am confused on to fish settings. Should I go impact or magnetic? Should I set depth to hit the hull or go with magnetic and pass underneath?

Thanks.

[Heibges]

That reminds me one patrol when i first got SH3 (stock no mods).
I found a lone C3 and decided to engage with torpedoes because of the stormy weather. From a distance of about 700m and AOB 90 degrees i fired 2 torps aiming for the middle of the ship with the pistol set for impact of course.Both struck it and it got on fire so i waited for it to sink but nothing so i launched another torp and still no kill at the end it sunk after 5 hits. I got mad spending 5 torps for a C3 and reloaded my last save. :damn:

I think it was the C2 that was hard to sink in stock.

I think the Medium Cargo is based on the C2.

There must be something funny about that ship. But I have sank them with 1 magnetic torpedo also.

[rik007]

Hi folks,


I have not play the SH3 for a long time until the GWX2.0 released. After install of the GWX I load the torpedo training mission. What makes me frustrated is to sink a medium cargo needs 5 torpedos. All of them roughly hit the middle section of the ship and explode beneath the keel.:damn: I wonder how could it be? Does anyone know some MOD can change the cargo ships vulnerability? Thanks!

Except for all these tips I can add that I read in Bernard Edwards book "Donitz and the Wolf Pack" that it once took seven torps to sink a ship. Of course an exception but ships carrying wood do have an advantage...

[rulle34]

I think it was the C2 that was hard to sink in stock.

I think the Medium Cargo is based on the C2.

There must be something funny about that ship. But I have sank them with 1 magnetic torpedo also.

I agree with this.
I have always consider the "C2 medium cargo" difficult to sink

[bigboywooly]

Okay, so there is no immediate feedback that a target is history?

So, what do most people do then, just put two fish into something and leave it be?

If it takes one or two hours for it to go down and you have sailed off will you still receive credit or do you need to maintain a certain range?

What about the deck gun? Just aim for the waterline or try to start fires on deck?

Final question: I am confused on to fish settings. Should I go impact or magnetic? Should I set depth to hit the hull or go with magnetic and pass underneath?

Thanks.

Sometimes you will get feedback and the ship will still be afloat
Matters not as you have the message so you can leave

A drop in speed is usually a good indication IF it will sink
May still stay afloat even when stopped though - you can leave but if you move over 50km away the ship leaves your rendering area so will respawn as a healthy unit

Below water is the best place - starting fires on deck will reduce the hitpoints on a ship but below waterline shots will also increase flooding

Magnetics should be around a meter BELOW the keel
Of course in rough weather thats not always easy to do and in rough weather mags tend to explode prematurely more often

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Regarding the OP issue concerning the medium cargo in the torpedoes training mission.

I just sunk one with one torpedo. Took two hours to sink. Nothing is wrong with it in GWX.

Please refer to the GWX manual regarding damage model methodology in GWX.

One torpedo will not always do the job... but usually it will.

[Flamingboat]

I just sunk that exact ship about 10 minutes ago off the coast of Spain. GWX 2.0 dark in a horrible storm. I got seasick almost. 2 torpedos right in the ass at minimum depth contact pistol at abot 900 meters. She sunk in 5 minutes ass first. This is my 2nd patrol, October 1939. I was so scared because I am still bad with torpedos and could not use my deck gun in the storm. BDU sent down a ban on magnetics so I went with contact and they both detonated.

I play 92% realism also (I like the free outside camera) and it was all me. What a GREAT feeling to manually hit targets. :arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

I just sunk that exact ship about 10 minutes ago off the coast of Spain. GWX 2.0 dark in a horrible storm. I got seasick almost. 2 torpedos right in the ass at minimum depth contact pistol at abot 900 meters. She sunk in 5 minutes ass first. This is my 2nd patrol, October 1939. I was so scared because I am still bad with torpedos and could not use my deck gun in the storm. BDU sent down a ban on magnetics so I went with contact and they both detonated.

I play 92% realism also (I like the free outside camera) and it was all me. What a GREAT feeling to manually hit targets. :arrgh!:

Congratulations....another satisfied customer http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Buhring]

I agree with this.
I have always consider the "C2 medium cargo" difficult to sink

I agree too: medium cargos are the toughest ships in the game. It takes less to sink a battleship, literally. They may occasionally sink with just one hit, but most need two and quite a few three.

But hell, five I've never heard of...

Gute Jagd

Buhring

[Heibges]

I agree with this.
I have always consider the "C2 medium cargo" difficult to sink

I agree too: medium cargos are the toughest ships in the game. It takes less to sink a battleship, literally. They may occasionally sink with just one hit, but most need two and quite a few three.

But hell, five I've never heard of...

Gute Jagd

Buhring

That is why if I am in a Type II on the English Coast early in the War, I hate spotting a C2 Medium. I could end up wasting all my torpedoes on her with nothing to show for it.

[Riccardo1975]

Morning my fellow Kaleuns.

Just hit a medium cargo heading east from Halifax on 13/4/42. Aimed shot from 600m in the fuel bunker running at 4m. AOB was 90 deg. Solid hit amidships.
It just zigzagged off, lost no speed and two hours later no sign of foundering. :confused:

Seriously tough ships.
I only needed two to sink the Ark Royal last year.... ;)

It was in an Atlantic gale so mag keel shot was a no no.

Any tips or just better to hit them forward and let them drive themselves under? :)

Riccardo U-501

[desirableroasted]

It was in an Atlantic gale so mag keel shot was a no no.

Any tips or just better to hit them forward and let them drive themselves under? :)


In rough weather, a shot directly under one of the forward cranes is very effective. By hitting there, you crack two compartments and the ship's momentum pushes it into the water.

It's been a long time since I needed more than one torpedo on a merchant of any size in rough weather. They almost always go down if you hit that sweet spot.

[Pisces]

You'd think they would be Passenger/Cargo's instead. Those are notorious to stay afloat, no matter where or how you hit them. Often suspected of carrying shipments of ping-pong-balls.

I have no other suggestions either. Aiming at the forward mast usually does the trick. Unless you have mods that changed this particular unit class.

[maillemaker]

Agree, the passenger/cargo ships seem to be the worst.

Okay, so there is no immediate feedback that a target is history?

I believe if you are within detection range of the ship you will get notification when it sinks. This may be within hydrophone range but beyond visual range. If you are within game-rendering distance of the ship (which may be beyond visual range), and you have map contacts on, you may see a grey icon appear when it sinks, but I believe there is no "She's going down!" notification.

So, what do most people do then, just put two fish into something and leave it be?

I'm using GWX3. Generally speaking, I put 2 fish in every ship I want to be sure sinks. I do this especially in bad weather where I cannot use the deck gun to finish them off, or later in the war when everyone is armed.

During convoy attacks, I'd say that about 25% of the time a single torpedo will cause the ship to explode and sink. It's both fun and sad to see a ship explode on the first hit and then see your second torpedo also plow into it. Fun for the bonus explosions, sad for the wasted torpedo.

If it takes one or two hours for it to go down and you have sailed off will you still receive credit or do you need to maintain a certain range?

See my comment above. It depends on how far away you get from it before it sinks.

What about the deck gun? Just aim for the waterline or try to start fires on deck?

Rumor has it that shooting below the water line is the best way to destroy ships by gunfire. I'm not really sure.

Final question: I am confused on to fish settings. Should I go impact or magnetic? Should I set depth to hit the hull or go with magnetic and pass underneath?

In GWX (and possibly stock, I cannot remember), magnetic torpedoes are prone to pre-detonation to simulate the historical problems with magnetic pistols. However, in game, they never malfunction inside 1000m, even early war. So you may use magnetic pistols with impunity to attack targets within 1000 meters.

If you are intentionally using magnetic pistols, you should aim about .5 meters under the target draft so that it passes closely under the target's hull.

My understanding is that if you achieve a standard impact hit with the magnetic pistol on the impact pistol is what does the detonating.

I believe I have read people say you can make high-angle impact shots with the magnetic pistol and it will detonate on impact anyway even though the impact pistol would not work at such glancing angles. I don't know if that is true or not.

I only use the magnetic pistol when purposefully shooting under targets.

I mostly use them for killing pursuing escorts with down-the-throat shots.

Steve

[UKönig]

That was a theory of mine.
Some ships seemed to be more or less "indestructible".
They are put there so as to make you waste your ammo by firing more shots than are strictly necessary. If you take the bait, then it's the same net effect as if you had dud torpedos (or other failures) enabled.
If I have to put 3-4 torps into 1 merchant, then I conclude I was being baited and I hit "alt-f4" to quit and get my weapons back, then go off looking for an easier target.
If I set 6m depth against a small/coastal merch. I can usually get 1 shot, 1 kill if aiming at the 'midships' mark. I know it's bait if that same ship can take 3 hits before sinking or blowing in half.
It also seems that if you do a lot of damage in a short space of time, 2 torpedo strikes within seconds of each other, vs 3-4 separate hits over 10-15 minutes, you are more likely to sink it quickly, than let the damage control teams try to repair and restore. That is, the longer it takes you to sink it, the more likely it will be that you will have to fire another shot. ...and another...

[Zosimus]

My two cents. First of all, I never use magnetic torpedoes. They premature too often. I use T1s 3-4m depth and set for impact.

Just recently I found out that you can zoom in on the periscope. If you're aiming for a specific spot on the ship, that zoom feature definitely helps.

I am running GWX and most ships do not go down with 1 torpedo. I follow them for 3 hours to make sure and then I surface and use the deck gun. I refuse to use a second torpedo unless I know that either A) the ship is at least 10k tons or B) it's a cruiser. Even then, on light cruisers, you normally need at least 3 torpedoes to put them down. I can't imagine how many you might need to do in a battleship.

If you're going to use a second torpedo on a ship, use it on the opposite side. Then even if you hit the same midships location, at least you're doing new damage to the ship.

Since you're probably going to have to use the deck gun anyway either make sure the weather's good enough or use the all weather deck gun mod. I've tried ramming–it's ineffective.

[Aktungbby]

My two cents. First of all, I never use magnetic torpedoes. They premature too often. I use T1s 3-4m depth and set for impact.

Just recently I found out that you can zoom in on the periscope. If you're aiming for a specific spot on the ship, that zoom feature definitely helps.

I am running GWX and most ships do not go down with 1 torpedo. I follow them for 3 hours to make sure and then I surface and use the deck gun. I refuse to use a second torpedo unless I know that either A) the ship is at least 10k tons or B) it's a cruiser. Even then, on light cruisers, you normally need at least 3 torpedoes to put them down. I can't imagine how many you might need to do in a battleship.

If you're going to use a second torpedo on a ship, use it on the opposite side. Then even if you hit the same midships location, at least you're doing new damage to the ship.

Since you're probably going to have to use the deck gun anyway either make sure the weather's good enough or use the all weather deck gun mod. I've tried ramming–it's ineffective.
:sign_yeah: Silent Otto Kretschmer: "one ship one 'eel' " and who can argue with 'the man"! Since the U-boot is not a true submarine but rather a temporarily submersible torpedo boat until the XXIII's are developed, waiting and finishing off cripples with the deck gun is the way to go. Know the draft depths of each merchant type and use impact only-Magnetic never works for me either. Properly rationed, the deck gun ammo and eels should be gone simultaneously by the patrol's end and the tonnage count is amazing. Anything under 3000 tons is strictly cannon fodder- Kanonenfutter- those 'eels' are expensive! Too bad about the ramming.:wah::D

[UKönig]

I will admit, I do not use realistic torpedos. Reload times, yes, duds, no. I didn't come all this way to sink something only to be betrayed by my own equipment. It's a game that I am trying to have fun at, I don't like getting cheated by bad fish. If I fire and miss, or I get a premie I will accept that in due course. If I hit and the angle was bad and it results in a "knock" and not a "blast", I will accept that too. I just like to be able to trust my torpedoes. I get the odd 'deep-runner' but by and large the depth gear can hold my settings.
I settle for running the torpedo under the target and break its back/keel. I save two for each potential target, one, and one to be sure. I rarely use 3 or 4 on one ship. If I am forced to use 5 torpedos on one ship that I can normally sink in 1-2 hits, I get suspicious...
In any case, you can sink an aircraft carrier or a battleship with one well placed shot under the keel. Even so large a ship cannot survive against that kind of structural damage. If you set your torpedoes to 2-3 meters against a battleship, then you should be sending them against the armor belt. Set them to run under and that same armor belt is now useless. Ships can also degauss to lower their magnetic profiles. Originally intended for use against coastal mines but also worked against magnetic pistols, so the impact fuse was often still used.
It looks like you're going with the 'punch a hole in the side and let nature do the work', while I am trying to break the keel. I will vary shots as the situation changes, that's one of the things that is fun about this game, there are so many different ways to play it.

[Riccardo1975]

Deck gun is great pre 1942 but after that everywhere bar Cape Hatteras ships are armed and one good hit destroys any hope of keeping 100% hull integrity for 220+ metres crah dive depth to avoid HK groups. Even shooting at night at crippled ships with a crack gun crew from 2500+ metres plus is risky. Dido class take 1 torpedo. Revenge class take 3. The Ark Royal took 2. HMS Nelson off Norway took 7. A 4000 tonne merchant should need one and then founder and sink over the following hour. Not 2+ gunfire. Think I'll just miss em out. Passenger cargoes are no problem at all. One torp and gone within 30 minutes. :)

Riccardo. U-501

[Andrewsdad]

Recently I used my last internal torpedo in heavy weather which stopped a merchant. It shipped water for hours as I waited for the weather to abate so I could load the externals and use the deck gun.

It took 37 hours for the "She's going down!" to be reported. I sailed away and never did see the hulk sink.

Another time I hit the RODNEY with two torpedoes as she sailed inside a convoy. This slowed her so that she dropped behind and after the escorting destroyers gave up on me I moved off so as to keep her just at extreme range so I could end around and finish her off.

After a few hours RODNEY increased speed and her port list was gone. Looks like the RN damage control teams are pretty good !! (Yes, I got her after all...)

I don't believe I have ever had a merchant repair damage, but the Naval ships seem to.
Salute!!
AD

[Pistoliero]

Mechants also can repair damage (probalby).
Few days ago during convoy attack I hit large tanker in bow area and it started to burn. Initially small fire, but after half an hour she was completely consumed by fire and left a trail of burning (!) oil on the water. Was quite a sight at night.

So, while evading escorts, I left convoy alone for few hours and intercepted it again next day. Tanker was fine and shiny, without visible damage.

About thinking ships - normally I use salvo of 2 torpedoes with small spread angle for anything larger than small cargo/merchant, just like BdU instructed me. Probably not a way to score 100.000 tons patrol but failsafe - if both torpedoes hit the target you can forget about it and start evading/reloading/whatever else you like.

All mechant types I've met and light/auxilary cruisers confirmed to sink after 2 hits.
If I ever meet a battleship or carrier exposed for attack, I would use salvo of 4 without a second thought.

As for magnetic pistols - yes, they premature a lot, but they have their uses. Impact just literally always fail, if it hits target at say 30 degrees, but magnetic will (unless it explode prematurely, yes).

By the way does relation between magnetic premature explosions and weather exists? At the beginning I thought that it does, so I used magnetics only at good weather. But I see that they still premature 30-50% of time, confused now.

[maillemaker]

By the way does relation between magnetic premature explosions and weather exists? At the beginning I thought that it does, so I used magnetics only at good weather. But I see that they still premature 30-50% of time, confused now.

Yes, I think bad weather makes magnetic more susceptible to premature detonation, but I have never seen a mag torpedo prematurely detonate inside 1000 meters.

Steve

[Zosimus]

Well, to each his or her own, but I don't fire anything from less than 2000 meters. If you fire closer by the time you can get some distance the escorts have followed the bubbles back to your location.

I have never had an impact torpedo fail when I do my own targeting solution. If you're 90º and firing from 350 to 010 gyroangle they go off like clockwork at any range. When I just fired at any old angle and trusted the game's perfect firing solution (range, speed, etc.) they bounced off all the time.

[banryu79]

Yes, I think bad weather makes magnetic more susceptible to premature detonation, but I have never seen a mag torpedo prematurely detonate inside 1000 meters.

I usually fire impacts and more rarely mags, but at least in 2 occasions when I fired mags I experienced what looked like misses but with the eels detonating. I'm not sure if before or after the estimated runnig time and they both where fired well inside the 1000 m. range (I usually fire between 700-400 m. and so I do not think they runned out of fuel).

Could I have experienced premature detonators? Or they simply bounced against the keel and then exploded while going down?

[desirableroasted]

Some torpedo tips to remember if you are trying to play realistically, rather than "arcade":

1) The choice is not mag vs imp, but mag/imp vs imp. In other words, all mag pistols work as impact pistols, too.

2) In real life, you could not switch pistol settings instantly. You had to haul the torpedo out of the tube to do it. I believe I have read in this forum that you could only do one at a time and that it took upwards of an hour.

3) As in real life, magnetic pistols sometimes fail. But if you let that keep you from using them, you are going to miss a *lot* of tonnage: used correctly, the damage they do far outweighs the occasional dud. You can easily ruin Hood's day with one.

4) When you use magnetic, try to use a slow speed setting. Give your torpedo as much time as possible under the hull of your target (which is why you also try for a "long" AOB angle, too).

5) Don't be a slave to gyroangle (the orange, yellow and green triangle). The green triangle does NOT mean a perfect shot -- only that the torpedo will run straight out of the tube on launch, perhaps on the way to a hopelessly miscalculated shot. Sure, all things equal, you want a low gyroangle, but it is perfectly possible to set up a perfect impact shot when your sub is not at a 90 degree angle to the target.

[desirableroasted]

I am running GWX and most ships do not go down with 1 torpedo.

Hit right, they will and do.

I follow them for 3 hours to make sure and then I surface and use the deck gun. I refuse to use a second torpedo unless I know that either A) the ship is at least 10k tons or B) it's a cruiser. Even then, on light cruisers, you normally need at least 3 torpedoes to put them down. I can't imagine how many you might need to do in a battleship.




Two normally works for a battleship if you are lined up right. You can go up to Norway in April 1940 and practice over and over and over and over again if you want to learn how.


If you're going to use a second torpedo on a ship, use it on the opposite side. Then even if you hit the same midships location, at least you're doing new damage to the ship.

No, just hit it in a different compartment. This is detailed in the GWX manual and has been discussed here at length for years.



Since you're probably going to have to use the deck gun anyway either make sure the weather's good enough or use the all weather deck gun mod. I've tried ramming–it's ineffective.

The all-weather mod is an arcarde and unrealistic mod -- fine if you want to play that way, of course, as are all mods.

The deck gun is a "nice to have" early in the war. Saves using a torpedo on some low life, or finishes someone off. But making tactical decisions based on whether you can use the gun is just... odd.

No offense... seriously. But you are feeling yourself forward into the game, and talking about it, which I respect. But a lot of what you are putting out as truth, rather than questions, is just wrong -- and, worse -- has been put out 1000 times before. Even by me when I first discovered the game.

Trust me when I say every bit of what you question or encounter has been covered at length. Use the search function and you will, for example, find 50-60 pages on approach theories, intercepts, convoy attack strategies, pros and cons of mag/impact, etc etc.

Not trying to shut you down, but this game is so thoroughly analyzed that one could write a 500-page manual on how to play it correctly.

[Zosimus]

Hit right, they will and do.

If you hit a ship and it goes down on one torpedo you should consider yourself lucky. I remember torpedoing a cargo ship, waiting 2 hours hoping it would sink, and then coming up on the other side and hitting it with about 10 shots, four of which were definitely below the waterline. I then called a cease fire and started waiting to see how long the ship would take to sink. Instead I got jumped by a destroyer and spent several hours at the bottom of a shallow section running along at 1 knot before shaking him off and catching up to the ship to find it burning merrily and steaming straight on.

By way of comparison the Kattegat was sunk during the battles of Narvik by four shots at the waterline and the ship was a 6,128 ton tanker–a ship designed to carry fluids.

So I don't care if you designed the mod. Ships do NOT usually sink with just one torpedo in the game, and a reasonable number of shots at the waterline is similarly no guarantee that the ship will go under.

In my other campaign, at home, I started in Lorient 1940 and sailed out with a IXB to do battle for Deutchland. I found a convoy with a light cruiser in the middle. With a two-torpedo salvo at 1º I hit that baby and, since I was still at periscope depth, I had the joy of watching the two torpedoes slam into the ship on the F6 screen. One hit it in the stern and the other hit it in the bow. Did it sink? No, the ship not only did not sink, but it also did not even slow down. So true to style, I have circled around to the other side of the convoy where I hope that a third torpedo, midships, will finish it. I won't know how that works out until the weekend. Remember that this is a LIGHT cruiser. I can only assume that it will take 4 to kill a normal cruiser, 5 for a battleship, and a thermonuclear device for an aircraft carrier. Enemy subs, as far as I understand, require Armageddon to sink. I've never engaged one.


Two normally works for a battleship if you are lined up right. You can go up to Norway in April 1940 and practice over and over and over and over again if you want to learn how.

I seriously doubt that.


No, just hit it in a different compartment. This is detailed in the GWX manual and has been discussed here at length for years.

As it's difficult or perhaps impossible to control the compartment you're hitting it in, the simplest solution is to circle around to the other side of the ship. This doesn't eliminate the possibility that you'll hit the same hold, but it does allow for new damage to the ship and it's easy. You just follow the ship submerged for a couple of hours, then pop to the surface, find the ship in the Uzi, tell your helmsman to go to heading and you magically end up on the other side of the ship when you overtake it. If it's listing, it'll be easier to shoot it below the waterline. What's the problem?

The all-weather mod is an arcarde and unrealistic mod -- fine if you want to play that way, of course, as are all mods.

Yesterday I hit a coastal tanker with a torpedo. The ship immediately stopped and listed so hard to port that I was sure it was a goner. I waited for the patrol craft to leave and then I popped to the surface to finish it off with the deck gun only to find 13 m/s winds. Five hours later when the ship was still showing no signs of sinking, I finally modded my submarine specs to permit the deck gun to be manned. My expert deck gunner finally fired the first shot off after two minutes because it took him that long to get out of water long enough to draw a bead and fire. Even then, he missed and that against a stationary ship at 500 meters. After his 5th shot he managed to get two of them into the bottom of the boat, which was clearly showing because of the extreme list, and the tanker finally went under. As such I do not consider the mod to be arcadish or unrealistic in the slightest. It stays.


The deck gun is a "nice to have" early in the war. Saves using a torpedo on some low life, or finishes someone off. But making tactical decisions based on whether you can use the gun is just... odd.

Well it's 1940 bud. We haven't even invaded Paris yet. Give me some torpedoes that don't have depth keeping problems and acoustically guide themselves and I'll happily give up my deck gun. Until then, it's a valuable part of my arsenal and my deck gunner is the most valued member of my team. For his extreme bravery in getting down there under 10 meters of water and manning that deck gun while tied with a rope to make sure he didn't get blown overboard for good, he will be decorated when I get back to Wilhelmshaven.


No offense... seriously. But you are feeling yourself forward into the game, and talking about it, which I respect. But a lot of what you are putting out as truth, rather than questions, is just wrong -- and, worse -- has been put out 1000 times before. Even by me when I first discovered the game.

Trust me when I say every bit of what you question or encounter has been covered at length. Use the search function and you will, for example, find 50-60 pages on approach theories, intercepts, convoy attack strategies, pros and cons of mag/impact, etc etc.

Not trying to shut you down, but this game is so thoroughly analyzed that one could write a 500-page manual on how to play it correctly.
You can talk all you want, but you'll never convince me that black is white, that up is down, or that most ships sink with one torpedo using GWX. I have eyes, and they can see.

[maillemaker]

If you hit a ship and it goes down on one torpedo you should consider yourself lucky.

You are. I find that about 20% of the time if I hit a ship in convoy it will explode violently and sink with one shot. Luck I guess. I do not know where they "magic spots" are on the ships, nor am I able to land shots with that kind of precision with map updates off, anyway.

In my other campaign, at home, I started in Lorient 1940 and sailed out with a IXB to do battle for Deutchland. I found a convoy with a light cruiser in the middle. With a two-torpedo salvo at 1º I hit that baby and, since I was still at periscope depth, I had the joy of watching the two torpedoes slam into the ship on the F6 screen. One hit it in the stern and the other hit it in the bow. Did it sink? No, the ship not only did not sink, but it also did not even slow down. So true to style, I have circled around to the other side of the convoy where I hope that a third torpedo, midships, will finish it. I won't know how that works out until the weekend. Remember that this is a LIGHT cruiser. I can only assume that it will take 4 to kill a normal cruiser, 5 for a battleship, and a thermonuclear device for an aircraft carrier. Enemy subs, as far as I understand, require Armageddon to sink. I've never engaged one.

I have, on several occasions, sunk Fiji class cruisers with 2 hits. I find them to be weaker than most merchants. The few times I have found battleships I engaged with all 4 torpedoes so I don't know if less would have done the trick or not.

I have one-shotted every S-class sub I have torpedoed, though they take forever to actually sink underwater. I took a bunch of screen shots once of my boat parked next to a "sunk" S-class as I posed for pictures with our "captured British sub". :)

As it's difficult or perhaps impossible to control the compartment you're hitting it in, the simplest solution is to circle around to the other side of the ship. This doesn't eliminate the possibility that you'll hit the same hold, but it does allow for new damage to the ship and it's easy. You just follow the ship submerged for a couple of hours, then pop to the surface, find the ship in the Uzi, tell your helmsman to go to heading and you magically end up on the other side of the ship when you overtake it. If it's listing, it'll be easier to shoot it below the waterline. What's the problem?

There's no problem, but you haven't done anything that you could not have done without sailing around the target.

Also, you make me twitch calling the UZO an Uzi. :D

As such I do not consider the mod to be arcadish or unrealistic in the slightest. It stays.

You can play with whatever mods you like, and I sometimes resort to anachronistic play styles also, like routinely killing escorts. But historically, my understanding is they didn't try to operate the deck gun in heavy seas. The historical solution would have been to use another torpedo or just leave the ship to its fate. I was just watching an interview with Reinhard Hardegen where they did just that - he did not want to waste another torpedo on a small damaged ship.

Well it's 1940 bud. We haven't even invaded Paris yet. Give me some torpedoes that don't have depth keeping problems and acoustically guide themselves and I'll happily give up my deck gun. Until then, it's a valuable part of my arsenal and my deck gunner is the most valued member of my team. For his extreme bravery in getting down there under 10 meters of water and manning that deck gun while tied with a rope to make sure he didn't get blown overboard for good, he will be decorated when I get back to Wilhelmshaven.

Gotta agree, I totally rely on my deck gun for tonnage early war.

You can talk all you want, but you'll never convince me that black is white, that up is down, or that most ships sink with one torpedo using GWX. I have eyes, and they can see.

He never claimed that they do. He just said if you hit them right, they can.

Steve

[scott_c2911]

I think the key to this arguement is a tweak in the explosive yields of the torpedoes. The general consensus is that the ships damage models are too robust but i wouldnt fancy editing each of the ships damage models. It would take a lifetime to do and another to perfect it. There are so many variables involved when a hit is scored that its no wonder it takes a random number of torpedoes to sink a given target. I have sank BBs with 1 and small merchants with 3; It all depends on the environmental conditions, ships cargo, course relative to weather, speed, shot placement. Its a long list but a torpdeo that has a bigger bang reduces the effect of these variables sonewhat. As for the deck gun mod I use it as it would be more realistic using a gun up to 12ms rather than the stock 5ms. Anything over that would be an act of bravery but still possible therefore allowing me to make the judgement call required of a real commander

[Von Tonner]

I can say with GWX I have sunk small merchants with one torp. Admittedly not often - I think 3 all told in 15 patrols. Others, if weather permitting and we are not too close to shore (don't want them radioing for help from shore base) I will surface and use the deck gun.

What I have noticed is that after the torp has hit them their speed will drop. It is those that are unable to get their speed back up to 6 or 7 knots that flounder and eventually go under. So I am assuming some repair work is going on and some are successful others not.

After reading the below link on freighters and tankers that did not sink - one, "Imperial Transport", can you believe, with only its stern left, still managed to survive after been smacked by one torpedo!!!!! I don't have a problem with not finishing off a freighter with one torp.

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/1471.html


What brought me to this link is that my present boat is U-53 and I was interested to find out what happened to her. She was lost with all hands by depth charges in 1940 in the North Sea off Orkney

[Cobalt09]

You'd think they would be Passenger/Cargo's instead. Those are notorious to stay afloat, no matter where or how you hit them. Often suspected of carrying shipments of ping-pong-balls.

I have no other suggestions either. Aiming at the forward mast usually does the trick. Unless you have mods that changed this particular unit class.
I can attest to the invincible Passenger/Cargo's. I hit one amidships with a torpedo and subsequently surfaced and began shooting it with the deck gun. After expending a considerable amount of ammunition, the ship broke in two just fore of the pilothouse from an explosion, and I received the "She's going down!" message. I steamed away at 10 knots and watched the ship with the free camera. I gave up after watching the ship for three in-game hours and seeing it not drop an inch lower in the water. Tough little buggers...

[desirableroasted]

However, what you will find is experience comes into play, you tend to learn where to aim, for different types of ships. .

An important factor. After a while, you just "know" where to (try to) hit.

[maillemaker]

Just have to brag,

Last night, southwest of Gibraltar I intercepted a task force with an Illustrious-class carrier in it. It was doing 17 knots.

I hit it with 4 T1 torpedoes running medium speed from 4km out. Impact pistols, 5m depth.

All 4 hit and exploded.

She went down in about 5 minutes. :)

Steve

[desirableroasted]

Last night, southwest of Gibraltar I intercepted a task force with an Illustrious-class carrier in it. ...She went down in about 5 minutes. :)

Steve

Heh! Sure makes up for all those coastal freighters and tramp steamers, doesn't it! :rock: