Detection risk at what range

[Yskonyn]

I have a few questions regarding detection. In almost all articles you read that a speed of 1/3 keeps you from being detected by warships, but if you're intercepting a convoy you have to come inbound at a much higher speed.
Are there any references regarding running the risk of being detected versus range to convoy (or target) and inbound speed?

Especially if the convoy is steaming along a trade route, intercepting takes a fair bit of speed to get into a good firing position.
Are there any known 'danger areas' as far as distance to warships are concerned for being likely to be detected?

I find that my strategy is often hampered by my fear to be detected, leaving me either at too great a distance or not even able to keep up with/intercept the targets.

Of course lone merchants have no detection capabilities, but it's the escorted convoys that pose the problem.

Any help is greatly appreciated! :up:

[DrBeast]

There's no hard and fast rule for that, I'm afraid. For starters, it depends whether you're using mods or not. Some mods, like Trigger Maru, have different sensor settings than vanilla game. Also, detection range varies accordingly to the skill of the enemy crew, which is pretty much random. Finally, weather and light conditions do have an adverse effect on visual range, both your crew's and the enemy. I'd suggest this approach: as soon as you spot a convoy, save. Then, approach the convoy while tracking your distance to it. When you see the escorts swirl around and come heads over heels at you, you've been detected. Note down the distance. Reload and repeat, this time with different speed. You'll have a ball-park estimate of how close you can get, at a given speed and environmental conditions and enemy crew rating. The rest is up to experience, sooner or later you'll have figured out what constitutes a safe range. Keep trying :up:

ETA: Forgot to mention that one more factor that affects detection range is how much of your ship you're showing the enemy. The smaller the profile, the farther you'll go undetected.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Further to the above, and is more from a Trigger Maru perspective:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=748676&postcount=2


RDP


(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=748676&postcount=2)

[Yskonyn]

OK. . . :hmm:

;) So it's just a matter of try before you die then?
I mean its clear that you have to intercept ships first before you will be able to position yourself into a good firing position.
But the problem is when do you start your firing positioning run and at what speed. You have to calculate their position ahead of time and position according to that into a firing position, that's all clear, but if you slow down too soon they will escape and if you keep the speed too long the warships will come after you! :hmm:

Try before you die, eh. . . :D

[DrBeast]

Ah yes, but do remember: real skippers didn't have the option to Save and Reload ;)
No try before you die for them, only do or die (great, now I have to dig up Aces High and listen at full blast!).

[Yskonyn]

And that is exactly my point: real Captains used some sort of approach, so I was wondering what that was. A try before you die approach is a bit awkward. ;)

[DrBeast]

To be completely honest with you, I've tinkered with the sensor's ranges, but it's been a while, and it's been even longer since I played with vanilla ranges, so I really don't remember what those ranges were. If you were really anxious to know, I'd pm you those numbers (no need to spill the beans in public, you know), but I honestly don't remember them.

[seafarer]

And that is exactly my point: real Captains used some sort of approach, so I was wondering what that was. A try before you die approach is a bit awkward. ;)

Reading through patrol reports though, real captains did not have some magic formulaic method for approach.

Since real world sensor sensitivity differed a lot depending on the specific equipment a ship had, the weather, the skill of the operator (a potentially huge factor with WWII era equipment), surrounding ships/noise, etc, etc, etc,... A real life captain had to use his own best judgement and experience. Radar helps a lot if used carefully, to stay out of your opponents range and compute an end run approach (once you have surface search radar that is). But basically you need to proceed thoughtfully, and be prepared to alter your plan. Remember. a lot of real life captains got the sh#t kicked out of them and their boat too.

[Snuffy]

The best approach would be to intercept a target coming to you and not moving away from you that would cause you to have to run at flank on the surface.

As the target approaches you can be "dead in the water" silent which is always the best solution.

I almost always let a convoy that I have to chase, go free from attack as I don't have the luxury of burning fuel to catch it (which most convoys run faster than my sub).

In bound convoys are best.

[kverdon]

What I do is to use the plotting tools to plot the Convoy's track. I then plot a course for me to get on a course that is 90 degrees to the Convoy track and sprint to a postion about 900-1000 yrds away from their track. I then lie in wait for them.

I actually made up a spreadsheet that calculates that uses the targets speed and range to estimate the targets time to my position. I pop up the scope when they are about 2000 yrds out to verify their posit. When they get to 1200 yrds its time to pop up the scope and take firing bearings.

Kevin

[Sailor Steve]

After reading all the "try before you die" problems, and speed and approaches and all, I have to wonder: since another of our complaints has always been that we sink a lot more ships than they really did, is letting convoys in bad positions go rather than chasing them down sometimes not the realistic thing to do? You can't catch 'em all.

Watch them sail away and send in a contact report. Maybe the next guy in line will nail some.

[seafarer]

I'd definitely say you cannot, nor should even try to, catch them all.

I'd also point out that unlike in the game, real captains were not free to roam wherever they wished nor whenever they wished. Their patrol zones were bounded, so as not to interfere with other operations in adjacent areas, and to keep their eyes and ears focused on the area that comsubpac wanted them to monitor. Also, often their passage to and from the patrol zone was bounded for the same reason, to keep them out from underfoot of other operations going on (that they would almost certainly not even be privy to knowing of). And they would often have orders not to engage anything in certain areas, so as not to alert enemy forces to an allied presence.

For example, in the photo recon missions in the game, it's really pretty ridiculous some of the things you can do on your way into and out of the photo recon target area and still successfully complete what should be a wholly stealth operation. What's the point of recon if the enemy knows you are there right beforehand and afterwards?

[AVGWarhawk]

After reading all the "try before you die" problems, and speed and approaches and all, I have to wonder: since another of our complaints has always been that we sink a lot more ships than they really did, is letting convoys in bad positions go rather than chasing them down sometimes not the realistic thing to do? You can't catch 'em all.

Watch them sail away and send in a contact report. Maybe the next guy in line will nail some.

I have watched them sail away. Typically in the S class this is just about all you can do most time:oops:

[scrag]

As it sounds the tactic is valid particularly with the Radar - most Convoys or Task Forces are operating at slow speeds and you can use your 20 knots to great advantage to running around the target and positioning in front or off the quarter. In some cases the ships are traveling very fast (14- 18 knots ie Ocean Liners with DD Escorts) and then you have to look at the intercept vs fuel. Using the Radar allows you to keep them outside there counterdection range and position accordingly. If you get there early enough take her deep to mark the thermal and if tactically feasible - head deep and wait for the outer screen to pass by rigged for silent then come to PD at BS and secure the rig at time of fire. Remember that the PD the game allows is very shallow and you can get a few extra feet down and stay in dip scope for quick observations.

[-Pv-]

In stock game you can get away with using full speed at the edge of your own visual contact with the closest ship when using end around tactic. Pretty simple and no guess work.
-Pv-