SH4 and SLI?

[panzer 49th]

Does SH4 support SLI? I am going to get a new pc and am trying to decide between 1 or 2 video cards and was wondering will SH4 utilize 2 video cards?

[Rockin Robbins]

I started out with a dual EVGA 7600GT SLI system that I thought was great. Then the consequences of an obscure Asain industrial espionage case started the electrolytic caps exploding in one of the two cards. I unplugged it, shutting off SLI and prepared to suffer through non-SLI doldrums.

Then I noticed that my frame rates were very little different! While I was waiting for the RMA on my first card I heard a sound from my case like somebody snapped a whip on steroids right beside my ear. Yup, the other card. So now I'm in the middle of the RMA process for card #2. I've been Rubini's nHancer settings for the one card I have and have frame rates up to 38 on bridge or external camera looking at the sub, higher than I had with SLI.

My guess is that Silent Hunter 4 treats SLI just like Crossfire and just doesn't play ball, but with only one card right now I can't research that. And with nHancer I can turn on SLI support no matter what the game says. So I'm curious what the result will be. I'll be asking Rubini lots of questions when the time comes.

In the meantime, I'd recommend getting one good card vs two second tier cards in SLI. Although SLI has saved my cookies by always keeping me in business while waiting for RMA on the card that was bad, it's very expensive insurance. The 7600's can be bought for under $90 now, so they're not terrible. But soon the 8800GT will sell for not much more than $200 and give more than double the performance of two 7600's in the best of circumstances. Even at $250, I don't think I could justify SLI with lesser cards. You could always SLI that one later provided your motherboard supports it and if we can demonstrate that SH4 will use it.

[Fincuan]

My guess is that Silent Hunter 4 treats SLI just like Crossfire and just doesn't play ball, but with only one card right now I can't research that.

I don't know about SLI, but my observations definitely support you on the Crossfire part. No noticeable effect even after trying all kinds of tricks and tweaks. Something Crossfire users could try, that works at least with Armed Assault, is renaming sh4.exe to fear.exe and thus forcing Crossfire to be used. Also make sure that Catalyst AI is set to at least "Standard". It's not a clean way and can result in weird gfx glitches sometimes, but almost doubles my FPS in Arma. NVidia users can naturally get the same effect with nHancer.

Running two Radeon X1950 Pros

[panzer 49th]

well actually i was planning on getting 2 x 8800 GT but if one will work that will bring the price down.

[jdkbph]

And now for something completely different....

Started out with an E6600 o/c'ed to 3.3ghz and a single 8800gts @ 620/1000 running the game at 1600x1050 with all the bells and whistles turned up and LOD turned all the way down (ie, most demanding settings imaginable).

Was getting 50 to 65 fps on the bridge depending on sea state, and maybe 5 fps less across the board using the < > views and circling around the sub on the surface.

SLI'ed in a second 8800gts - REDUCED the clocks back to stock (576/850) - and now, with identical conditions (I was loading and reloading the same save game to do this test), I'm getting 90 - 110 fps on the bridge and about 5 fps less using the < > views to circle around the sub on the surface.

You tell me if it's worth it!

Silent Hunter IV: Customized Profile (nHancer)

AA: 4x (set globally, because of the porked drivers)
AF: 8x
VSync: Off
SLI: AFR [0x02000001]
MipMap:Tri

Note the [0x02000001]... that's the #25 compatibility flag - makes all the difference for me.

Also, note the CPU speed and the resolution. If the CPU is causing a significant bottleneck, SLI does practically nothing... nor does it do much at lower resolutions (eg 1024x or 1280x).

JD

[M. Sarsfield]

I have a 7600 GT from EVGA. I hope it doesn't fry. It's behaved itself for 4 months, so far. I was wondering if a second one would make a difference, since I have an SLI board. Rockin Robbins, let me know what you find out.

Right now I get 30 fps if not a whole lot is going on in the 3D views. If there is heavy weather/rough seas, sometimes the huge waves will temporarily drop her to 20 fps.

I'm running a dual 3.0 GHz AMD processor (Athlon 64 X2 6000+) and 2 GB of RAM. So, I doubt that my board and CPU are causing the bottle neck. I have the video card juiced up a little from the optimizer running for 20 minutes and I have most of the recommended graphics settings for the game, except for AA Transparency. It's set at Supersampling, because the nVidia control panel freezes up when I switch it to Multisampling.

[LukeFF]

In my experience, my dual 8800 GTS cards running in SLI mode have not made that much of a difference for SH4. Other games, yes, but not this one.

[jdkbph]

Maybe you need to review your configurations? Assuming you have an adequate CPU and your are running at a fairly high resolution, you should be seeing noticable performance gains in SH4.

Unless you don't feel that doubling your frame rate is worth the time, you might want to give my suggestions a try.

:D

EDIT: just to qualify this a bit more... my 8800gts cards are both of the 640MB variety. Folks with the 320MB cards may not see quite so dramatic an improvement.

[M. Sarsfield]

I installed nHancer earlier and when I ran SH4 the game crashed, but in hind sight it was due to me installing a gauge mod while I was not docked at home port. The game would crash when the mission tried to load. That will teach me to try too many things at one time. I'll give nHancer another try.

[M. Sarsfield]

Okay, I made your recommended changes and even though I get an increase in frame rate in the interior rooms, I noticed a big hit on the bridge... especially during heavy weather. Any recommended changes, since I am only running one 7600 GT card?

I also noticed weird anomalies when I move the view around with the mouse. Flickering would be the best way to describe it.

So, I changed AA to 2X and I did notice a slight improvemnt to the exterior (11 to 20 fps in heavy weather) and almost 60 fps in the interior. Then, I turned super transparency on for AA and got the exterior to hover between 17 and 20+ fps in heavy weather and the interior peaks at 80+ fps in the conning tower - if I look in certain directions. The anomalies almost disappear with super transparency on, as well.

[jdkbph]

Oooo, sorry for the confusion. I even signed back on here with the intention of qualifying my results even further. My SLI'd 8800gts cards are both of the 640MB variety. Folks with the 320MB cards may not see quite so dramatic an improvement.

But in any case, those settings suggestions were meant for SLI set-ups only. And even then, only for folks with high HP systems running at very high resolutions. I have an idea... but unfortunately no empirical data with which to formulate a guess as to how they would affect single card machines.

JD

[Rockin Robbins]

Oooo, sorry for the confusion. I even signed back on here with the intention of qualifying my results even further. My SLI'd 8800gts cards are both of the 640MB variety. Folks with the 320MB cards may not see quite so dramatic an improvement.

But in any case, those settings suggestions were meant for SLI set-ups only. And even then, only for folks with high HP systems running at very high resolutions. I have an idea... but unfortunately no empirical data with which to formulate a guess as to how they would affect single card machines.

JD


Now I REALLY can't wait to get both my cards together in the same box. With nHancer I should be able to use SLI with SH4 even if SH4 itself lacks support. Rubini may have brought the tool that I needed to get the job done.

@M. what's your configuration? Right now with one EVGA 7600GT I have Asus A8N32-SLI deluxe motherboard, wimpy Athlon 64 3700+ processor, 2 gig fancy brand go fast memory (bought it cheap but it looks cool and presumably works fast:rotfl:I was suckered in by a sale price plus rebate plus cool cooling shield), WD 3200KS hard drive and a partridge in a pear tree. I haven't overclocked anything, although I have plenty of headroom to do that. I get 38 fps in either bridge or exterior camera view looking at the sub in normal weather. I used to get 25 before the Rubini settings I posted earlier. Let's compare notes here and see what we can do.

[capt_frank]

Note the [0x02000001]... that's the #25 compatibility flag - makes all the difference for me.

I'm running two 7900GS's in SLI and I too use AFR with the #25 flag. I'm getting great frames (IMHO) on my system.

I also made some improvements, like upgrading Nhancer from 2.2.2 to 2.3.2 and utilized some of Rubini's ideas...See Here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128517. Although I didn't see a significant frame rate increase, I didn't lose frames either. Upgrading to the new Nhancer program was the largest "push" for me.

And I'm saving my lunch money for two of those 8800 GTX 768mb beasts...:D

[M. Sarsfield]

Well, after a sinking a Takao cruiser in abysmal weather, the rain and fog finally died off and now it's just rough seas. The heavy rain and fog was causing the external view looking out over the bow to run about 18 - 20 fps. Periscope view was 20 fps. Internal boat (3D) is anywhere from 55 to 80+ fps, depending on the room and direction you are looking. Now with rough seas, the frame rate looking over the bow on the bridge is 35+fps. It improves if I look around.

I have an Athlon 64 X2 dual 3.0 GHz processor (6000+), 2GB of gaming RAM, of course the EVGA 7600 GT card, MSI K9N SLI Platinum mother board, 300GB 7200 rpm HD, and a Turtle Beach sound card.

These are the nHancer setting that I seem to be getting the best frame rate results with, albeit with some minor flickering/waviness from time to time:

Enhancements:
AA Multi-sampling: 2X
"Enhance in-game AA setting" checked
"Multi-Transparency AA" checked
AF: 8X
Vertical Sync: Off

Optimizations:
Texture Filtering Quality checked
Trilinear Opt.: on
Aniso. Sample Opt.: off
Neg. LOD Bias Clamp checked
Adjust LOD BIAS at zero
Force DXT3 (OpenGL): off
Prerender Limit: 3 (not sure what this is)

Compatibility:
AA Compatibility: General (I have it set to general, because the skins were completely hosed on the interior of the sub when I turned the EA option on)
OpenGL: general
Force Mip Maps: Trilinear
HDR: Enabled
Conformant Texture Clamp: On
Driver Ext. Limits: 0
Reported OpenGL: default
OpenGL Control: nothing checked

I set up the profile and global settings to be the same. I created an SH4 profile with these settings, rather than modifying an existing one. Since the EVGA 7600 GT cards are so cheap (especially this time of year), I will probably hook up the second one.

In general, nHancer has made a big difference on the game with only one card. Also, make sure you have the latest Forceware driver from Dec. 19.

[jdkbph]

Just one other point regarding the "this game does (or does not) support SLI" thing...

SLI is a hardware/driver level thing. No specific "support" is necessary.

Now optimizing for SLI is another thing. But this has more to do with how and where the constraints or bottlenecks occur within a given system running a specific application, than with any sort of special code or options built into that application.

The question you're trying to answer when you make a guess as to whether SLI will help or not is this:

Is this game running on this hardware CPU or GPU constrained?

If the former, no amount of GPU power will help. If the latter, SLI will provide improvement... right up to the point where you hit the CPU bottleneck.

Now what I'm saying... and it's based on what I can see, first hand, with my own eyes (and some help from the built in FPS counter)... is that with an E6600 @ 3.3ghz, SH4 - with everything set to high detail - running at 1680x1050 on one 8800gts (640MB @ 620/1000mhz) is definitely GPU constrained.

That means that SLI, properly configured, will provide a performance improvement, regardless whether the developer planned for or intended to support the technology. In my case, this performance improvement is slightly less than 100%, In other words, were talking not just marginal improvement, but the very most one could ever expect or hope for from a 2 card SLI system.

That some folks are saying SLI is not doing much for them tells me that either they do not have it configured properly (eg, left it in the default "single GPU" mode instead of AFR), or they have other (most likely CPU) constraints.

JD

[M. Sarsfield]

Good points, JD.

I have my resolution at 1440x900 and I have most of the graphics options maxed out or turned on in game. So, I think a second video card would probably help my overtaxed 7600.

[Rockin Robbins]

And I'm saving my lunch money for two of those 8800 GTX 768mb beasts...:D
Bragging rights to the biggest and best don't last long enough to make it a worthwhile effort for me. I'll just buy the castoffs from those who have to have the biggest and smile!

Look what happened to the poor iPhone pioneers. Mowed down before they ever had the smile on their faces. They didn't even have time to brag.

I'll vote with Elder Pirate: making something less than the bleeding edge work well takes more skill, is fun, and saves you more than 50%. What's not to like?:arrgh!:

But without the pioneers who gotta have the latest, I couldn't do what I do. Go for it! This class envy stuff is bullschnitzel. You'll have more computing power in your graphics cards than I have in my whole computer. (Whew!):up:

[capt_frank]

And I'm saving my lunch money for two of those 8800 GTX 768mb beasts...:D

Bragging rights to the biggest and best don't last long enough to make it a worthwhile effort for me. I'll just buy the castoffs from those who have to have the biggest and smile!

Look what happened to the poor iPhone pioneers. Mowed down before they ever had the smile on their faces. They didn't even have time to brag.

I'll vote with Elder Pirate: making something less than the bleeding edge work well takes more skill, is fun, and saves you more than 50%. What's not to like?:arrgh!:

But without the pioneers who gotta have the latest, I couldn't do what I do. Go for it! You'll have more computing power in your graphics cards than I have in my whole computer. (Whew!):up:



I should have prefaced what you quoted with "when they become affordable", hence, the saving of lunch monies. I don't mind dropping some bucks for my hobby, but they're just a tad bit pricey right now for my pocket.

Actually, from what I've read, two 8800 GTX 768 mb's in SLI is getting more common every day. I just add a few more cents to the jar when I read that...:D

I remember when I had two voodoo 3 cards set up in tandem....;)

Right now my SLI'd 7900 GS's will do just fine...that is until either Oleg's BOB or SHV arrives...

[Rockin Robbins]

or they have other (most likely CPU) constraints.

JD

I'm guessing you would say my Athlon 64 3700+ MIGHT qualify as CPU constrained.:rotfl:How would you go about testing for that? How could I project possible gains from plugging say an Athlon X2 6000+ into that puppy?

My crystal ball says to tell you Asus A8N32-SLI deluxe, 2 gig go-fast OCZ memory, eventually 2 EVGA 7600GT SLI. Just e-mailed my receipt to EVGA for RMA approval today. What a great company! You KNOW this bogus electrolytic cap scam is costing them millions of dollars, euros and yen.

Pointers? Keep in mind that I am a value customer, not an early adopter. $600 graphics cards do not blow my skirt up.:rotfl:

[Rockin Robbins]

Right now my SLI'd 7900 GS's will do just fine...that is until either Oleg's BOB or SHV arrives...
Those two 7900 cards are darn fast even compared to 8000 series cards. You take a back seat only to 8800GT and 8800GTX by a little. If they're twice as fast I'd be shocked. I figure the 8800GT is almost exactly twice as fast as my 7600GT.

So I'd say you're in the driver's seat waiting with a big grin on your face!:p

All this great information is getting me excited again. I cannot wait to hook up my SLi again and tweak it to within an inch of its life with nHancer!