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View Full Version : Gross stupidity or just plain bad luck


Jimbuna
01-11-08, 04:46 PM
11 March 1943 fast convoy Halifax 228....initially 80 ships escorted by British Escort Group B-3, commanded by A.A. Tait in the destroyer Harvester plus Escapade, 2 Polish-manned destroyers, Burza and Garland, and 5 corvettes, two British and 3 French.

The convoy is attacked by U-boats of the Neuland group.

Harvester sights a U-boat on the surface (Albert Langfeld in VII U-444).

Harvester rams U-444, riding up and over, entangling the U-boat in her propeller shaft. by the time both boats break free, harvester's propellor shafts and screws are so badly damaged that she can only crawl on one engine.

Despite the plight of his own ship, Tait saves the lives of one German from U-444 and also 50 American survivors of the William M. Gorgas.

Hermann Eckhardt in the VII U-432 came across Harvester lying-to dead in the water, he fired two eels from a distance of approximately 700 yards. both hit Harvester and she sunk with the loss of 149 men, including Tait.

Earlier, Tait had summoned the Free French corvette Aconit, commanded by Jean Levasseur, to close and screen Harvester. Aconit belatedly arrived to find no Harvester, but a sea teeming with her survivors and those of the William M. Gorgas and one German clinging to rafts and wreckage.
At the same time, Aconit spotted the U-444, which Harvester had rammed, still afloat. Leaving the survivors temporarily, Levasseur raced at U-444 and rammed her so hard the U-boat split in two and sank immediately. Levasseur fished out 3 Germans.

Returning to the scene where Harvester had sunk, Aconit unexpectedly got a good sonar contact. This was Harvester's killer, U-432, still at periscope depth.
After sinking Harvester, Eckhardt had opened a bottle of champagne so the officers could celebrate, after which the officers and crew had begun to eat lunch or to sleep. When the first two salvos (ten depth charges) from Aconit fell, U-432 was deaf and blind. The hydrophone operator was washing the champagne glasses: the first watch officer had gone to bed. The close explosions caused extensive damage and drove U-432 to a record one thousand feet.

The depth to which U-432 plunged so terrified all hands that Eckhardt decided to surface in broad daylight and attempt to outrun his attacker. When U-432 popped up, Aconit was merely a half mile away. The French spotted the U-boat and instantly opened fire with the 4" gun and other weapons.
This heavy gunfire probably killed Eckhardt and many other Germans who were topside. Aconit eventually sunk U-432 and rescued twenty Germans, including the first watch officer before returning to the area where the survivors of Harvester and Gorgas were adrift and took them all aboard. The recued included 24 Germans-4 from U-444 and 20 from U-432.

bigboywooly
01-11-08, 04:49 PM
GROSS stupidity
:roll:
What a moose
Didnt he think the other escorts would come to the aid of the crippled DD ?

Guess most of them learnt the hard way :dead:

Jimbuna
01-11-08, 04:55 PM
He must have been on low realism settings http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

yamato9
01-11-08, 05:07 PM
Unbelivable..drinking champagne in midle of this mess.:o
Very strange behavior/error for germans who is knowed by his heavy organisation and discipline.:hmm:

Stupidity is my answer for this.:yep:

Brag
01-11-08, 05:38 PM
When drinking champagne, keep your ears open --ancient Macedonian saying :roll:

Jimbuna
01-11-08, 06:12 PM
Never promote the hydrophone guy to chief bottlewasher :hmm:

NiclDoe
01-11-08, 06:53 PM
Or put me or Bernard in charge.:rotfl: :rotfl: Just 2 days ago i thought I had me a Tramp and it turned out to be a hampton cruiser.:rotfl: :rotfl: I am never doing hydro again.

Julius Caesar
01-11-08, 07:01 PM
The close explosions caused extensive damage and drove U-432 to a record one thousand feet.


:hmm:

TomcatMVD
01-12-08, 08:44 AM
Scary...

Jimbuna
01-12-08, 09:03 AM
The close explosions caused extensive damage and drove U-432 to a record one thousand feet.


:hmm:

As quoted from the source http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Jimbuna
01-12-08, 09:03 AM
Scary...

.....and stooooooooooooopid http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

TomcatMVD
01-12-08, 09:11 AM
Scary...

.....and stooooooooooooopid http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif
Might be, I just don't dare to say that so quickly... and openly without actually knowing what happened.
I believe the sources presented, just don't deem myself allowed to say such a thing.:oops:

Jimbuna
01-12-08, 09:49 AM
Scary...

.....and stooooooooooooopid http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif
Might be, I just don't dare to say that so quickly... and openly without actually knowing what happened.
I believe the sources presented, just don't deem myself allowed to say such a thing.:oops:

The source is Hitler's U-boat War, The Hunted 1942-1945, Clay Blair, pages 256-257. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

TomcatMVD
01-12-08, 10:06 AM
Scary...

.....and stooooooooooooopid http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif
Might be, I just don't dare to say that so quickly... and openly without actually knowing what happened.
I believe the sources presented, just don't deem myself allowed to say such a thing.:oops:

The source is Hitler's U-boat War, The Hunted 1942-1945, Clay Blair, pages 256-257. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

I said I trust it! Really!

BulSoldier
01-24-08, 07:53 AM
I want to buy both books (hunters and the hunted) but damn publishers, why they dont translate them in bulgarian :nope:

Jimbuna
01-24-08, 10:03 AM
I want to buy both books (hunters and the hunted) but damn publishers, why they dont translate them in bulgarian :nope:

That's a real pity....I can only imagine it's down to the perceived low expected number of readers in your country. :hmm:

papa_smurf
01-24-08, 03:29 PM
Just plain stupidity.....:nope:

High Voltage
01-24-08, 04:44 PM
That's pretty much my standard attack plan...My short careers are suddenly starting to make sense, and I now understand why it's important not to leave behind a hydrophone operator to make room for extra cases of champagne...:damn::damn:

ichso
03-20-08, 03:45 PM
Does anybody understand those DD tactics of ramming a sub when the own ship gets heavily damaged too ?

I mean, with further enemy subs around this is just risking the lives of the own crew if the DD is left less maneuverable afterwards.

Jimbuna
03-20-08, 07:57 PM
Does anybody understand those DD tactics of ramming a sub when the own ship gets heavily damaged too ?

I mean, with further enemy subs around this is just risking the lives of the own crew if the DD is left less maneuverable afterwards.

This is areal old thread now, but in answer to your query.........Often the only/best means open to an escort skipper to disable a sub was to ram, fully in the knowledge that help was close by for his vessel and crew. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Brag
03-22-08, 01:42 PM
He must have been on low realism settings http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

He thought we was in stock instead of in GWX. :nope:

Jimbuna
03-22-08, 03:08 PM
He must have been on low realism settings http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img412/4774/thumbsuplargeon1.gif

He thought we was in stock instead of in GWX. :nope:

Yeah....you sometimes wonder :yep:

Amiral Crapaud
03-22-08, 05:20 PM
Does anybody understand those DD tactics of ramming a sub when the own ship gets heavily damaged too ?

I mean, with further enemy subs around this is just risking the lives of the own crew if the DD is left less maneuverable afterwards.
Well apparently, risks must have been limited eventually from a hull integrity point of view, as Aconit, while being "only" a Flower class vessel, went for U-444 fearless and survived the shock. Harvester, on the other hand, got unlucky enough to tangle his propeller shaft with U-432 superstructure, but apparently didn't suffer important hull damage, right?

They only place you may see subs ramming and actually sinking destroyers with limited damages to themselves is stock SH3... Those virtual German conning tower must be made out of titanium :lol:

For those who can read French, here are some words about the encounter.
http://www.netmarine.net/bat/divers/aconit/histoire/escorte.htm

The Aconit commander's words sound like sweet revenge...

In his ops report, Cmdt LEVASSEUR wrote that "he found great honour and pleasure (sic.) in avenging his group commander in twenty-three minutes."
btw from what the German prisoners had to say about it, the decision of their commander to surface and make a run for it was also based on the damages received, which apparently hampered the sub's performance underwater, but didn't affect the diesel engines. It is also said that this was the very first U-432 patrol, hence the champagne, and the overall lack of qualification of the whole crew.