It's the final version that I am worried about ... National ID Card

[geetrue]

This was news to me that a national ID card was being designed.I knew about the new US passport card with a chip ...
but this new standard for all US drivers license was news to me.

I was concerned at first, but after reading the Homeland Defense reasons and fact sheet I guess I brained washed myself into thinking it really is something we need.

First I had to pretend to be an airport security person and then a US Customs official and finally a US Border guard to see it is sorely needed, but I am also a believer in the number 666 being for the end of time as man kind knows it ... I don't even want to see the final version.

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1200065427422.shtmQuote from press release 1/11/08

“The American public’s desire for greater identity protection is undeniable,” said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. “Americans understand today that the 9/11 hijackers obtained 30 drivers licenses and ID’s, and used 364 aliases. For an extra $8 per license, REAL ID will give law enforcement and security officials a powerful advantage against falsified documents, and it will bring some peace of mind to citizens wanting to protect their identity from theft by a criminal or illegal alien.”

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1161115330477.shtm
October 2006

Protecting Personal Privacy

We constantly look for ways to protect the privacy of travelers entering the United States. Through the passport card design, personal privacy would be protected through multiple layers of security including, but not limited to, the methods discussed below.· No personal information would be transmitted or stored on the vicinity RFID-enabled card. The technology will transmit only a number between the card and the reader which will be matched against a DHS database. · Even though no personally identifiable information will be transmitted, DHS is taking steps to ensure that even this number cannot be intercepted during transmission to an authorized reader at a port of entry. · All card holders would be issued a protective sleeve for the card, preventing transmission of the Vicinity RFID signal while the card is in the sleeve. · The use of the card will be voluntary; travelers can elect to use a traditional passport if they so chose.

[Tchocky]

I'm glad that Gordon Brown is going off the idea of ID cards for Britain. I hope it doesn't happen the US :-?

[STEED]

I'm glad that Gordon Brown is going off the idea of ID cards for Britain. I hope it doesn't happen the US :-?

This is due to all those bloody cock ups last year, fear not if Labour are re-elected in 2009 you can bet your ass the ID Card will be top of there agenda.

ID Cards first then RFID in bedded in Humans, fight back against this evil now and today.

ID Cards will not stop terrorist attacking and immigrates coming in, it's all BS.

[Ducimus]

I hate invoking godwin, but the praise is unavoidable.

"Papers, papers please"
(my google image search results on the above praise)

http://www.marhistorical.com/literature/literature_dateien/cat27.jpg

[Tchocky]

I'm glad that Gordon Brown is going off the idea of ID cards for Britain. I hope it doesn't happen the US :-?
This is due to all those bloody cock ups last year, fear not if Labour are re-elected in 2009 to can bet your ass the ID Card will be top of there agenda.
I'm not so sure, man. This week he really stressed that it would be a Parliamentary vote that would decide it. Of course everything goes through Parliament, but I think he's trying to give himself some wiggle room. There's a depressing amount of people in Labour who want ID cards, I think he wants to avoid a backbench revolt.

.02 :)

[mrbeast]

Its Ironic that the incompetance of the civil service is making ID cards less likely!:lol:

I'm against the idea on principle and in practice, hopefully the government will quietly sweep it under the carpet like they do with other 'good ideas' that don't turrn out so good.

[STEED]

I'm glad that Gordon Brown is going off the idea of ID cards for Britain. I hope it doesn't happen the US :-?
This is due to all those bloody cock ups last year, fear not if Labour are re-elected in 2009 to can bet your ass the ID Card will be top of there agenda.
I'm not so sure, man. This week he really stressed that it would be a Parliamentary vote that would decide it. Of course everything goes through Parliament, but I think he's trying to give himself some wiggle room. There's a depressing amount of people in Labour who want ID cards, I think he wants to avoid a backbench revolt.

.02 :)

ID Cards are hated, Gordon wants to be re-elected so it's time to be the nice guy this year. Just wait to the budget give away as the mass brain dead will lap it up like mothers milk. And come 2009 the X goes next to Labour.

[STEED]

Next terrorist attack will open the door to the ID Card for sure. :damn:

[Tchocky]

Have a little faith, STEED. I doubt that Labour would, after an election, U-turn on what has been one of their most blazingly unpopular policies. And if they did, heads would roll :)

EDIT - Jeez, new av!

I liked my old one

*grumbles*

[STEED]

@Tchocky

The proof is in the pudding. ;) :)

[MothBalls]

Most Americans don't remember that a Social Security number was intended to be used to manage your SS account by the Federal Government and nothing else. Now 50% of your identity is tied to it, including your credit rating, employment records, etc.

Same thing will happen with this idea eventually. Ever couple of years they'll add a little more... and share a little more... until you sacrifice all your privacy. They justify it by saying they have to do it in for the sake of security.

Next on the list, freedoms.

[XabbaRus]

Personally I don't think at this moment labour would win.

Then gain Cameron is another Blair we'll see,

STEED I think we should set up our own party.

[STEED]

STEED I think we should set up our own party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom

After reading this list of dead ducks I came up with this one.

The Peoples kick ass and no bullsh*t party. Catchy little number. :D

[Wave Skipper]

t:sunny:

[Sailor Steve]

I hate invoking godwin, but the praise is unavoidable.

"Papers, papers please"
(my google image search results on the above praise)
Exactly what came to my mind!

Most Americans don't remember that a Social Security number was intended to be used to manage your SS account by the Federal Government and nothing else. Now 50% of your identity is tied to it, including your credit rating, employment records, etc.

Same thing will happen with this idea eventually. Ever couple of years they'll add a little more... and share a little more... until you sacrifice all your privacy. They justify it by saying they have to do it in for the sake of security.

Next on the list, freedoms.
Very, very true.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin, though he denied it in a 1760 letter to David Hume

"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
-Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1738

[lesrae]

Most Americans don't remember that a Social Security number was intended to be used to manage your SS account by the Federal Government and nothing else. Now 50% of your identity is tied to it, including your credit rating, employment records, etc.



We're lucky, our National Insurance number (the closest equivalent) is only used by the government for tax and health purposes - it doesn't come in to credit or banking.

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.

[geetrue]

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.

Sounds a little laid back to me, "Oh I'm so sorry Mr Terroist you are parked in a no parking zone" "Could you please come down to the station in the next couple of weeks and show your drivers license"? "Just a mere formaility you understand" :lol:

Yes, we have to have registeration papers for the car we are driving and a valid drivers license or come down to the traffic court in the next thirty days to pay a fine.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

ID card = loss of privacy, loss of liberty and personal rights... :shifty:

[geetrue]

Update on the National ID card:

Now it won't be law till 2017

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-realid12jan12,1,4276244.story?coll=la-news-a_section


WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration hit the brakes Friday on a controversial law requiring Americans to carry tamper-proof driver's licenses, delaying its final implementation by five years, until 2017

[STEED]

ID card = loss of privacy, loss of liberty and personal rights... :shifty:

Correct. :yep:

Money is no longer power, information is. ;)

[Sailor Steve]

In the USA, do you have to carry your driving licence if you're driving a vehicle? It's one of those things I've got the idea of from TV. In the UK we don't, but we have to produce it at a police station within 2 weeks if requested.
It may vary from state to state (driver licenses are issued by the states, not at the national level) but everywhere I've lived you had to have it if you were driving. Many functions here also require a photo ID, so most of us have it on our persons all the time anyway.

[lesrae]

Sounds a little laid back to me, "Oh I'm so sorry Mr Terroist you are parked in a no parking zone" "Could you please come down to the station in the next couple of weeks and show your drivers license"? "Just a mere formaility you understand" :lol:

Yes, we have to have registeration papers for the car we are driving and a valid drivers license or come down to the traffic court in the next thirty days to pay a fine.

:D Don't worry, they can still arrest you for failing to ID yourself properly if they want, or for a myriad of other reasons under the anti-terrorist laws.

It may vary from state to state (driver licenses are issued by the states, not at the national level) but everywhere I've lived you had to have it if you were driving. Many functions here also require a photo ID, so most of us have it on our persons all the time anyway.

Cheers Steve, that's more where my thoughts were going - a lot of countries virtually have a mandatory ID card already, or their laws mean you may as well carry one.

IMO it'd be easier to carry one and be able to prove my identity on the spot and avoid all the crap. People extrapolating the introduction of the card into a 1984, surveillance style of society is a little extreme for my taste - but each to their own ;)

[Peto]

“The American public’s desire for greater identity protection is undeniable,” said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. “Americans understand today that the 9/11 hijackers obtained 30 drivers licenses and ID’s, and used 364 aliases. For an extra $8 per license, REAL ID will give law enforcement and security officials a powerful advantage against falsified documents, and it will bring some peace of mind to citizens wanting to protect their identity from theft by a criminal or illegal alien.”



I have yet to talk to an American that believes this is a good idea. Although I'm sure they're out there. And since this Nat ID card isn't supposed to go into full swing until 2014, I doubt the threat of terrorism is what it's main thrust is. More likely, it'll just make tracking easier. Tracking what? Who? Everyone?

:nope:

[Stealth Hunter]

Once again, if this passes in the United States then I'll simply move back home and call it a day. Seriously, the American government is trying to shove so many things up a citizen's ass it isn't even funny. Why don't you simply stick some tracking device in me that tells you what I'm doing, how I feel, and where I am along with EVERY piece of info about me?

National ID cards won't solve a damn thing. Building up border defences and arming the patrol units there with automatic weapons and the orders to shoot anyone who comes within 20 feet of the wall unless their presence was acknowledged ahead of time DOES solve the immigration problem (which thus gave us a week of CNN rambling on about Mexicans and immigration in 2006).

Terrorists aren't even a problem. They simply enter Mexico and cross the border like everyone else. They look enough like the Mexicans, and they're smarter and craftier than they are, too. They could get a job at any corporation in America (except the ones who now have the law on their asses for hiring illegals) and cause as much mayhem as they wanted to. We have some in the country in the moment. That's no secret; it's just old and annoying. One terrorist can't pull off another 9/11.

"I took jor job at Home Depot and jor womeng!"

[squigian]

^ Couldn't agree more.

What a lot of people forget as well is that many of these so-called terrorists are nothing more than incompetent and idle fantasists. Nothing that the real ones have to throw at the West can't be beaten with the intelligent use of already existing laws. Governments simply prefer the sledgehammer of liberty-stealing to the scalpel of good intelligence and creativity.

[Peto]

^^ What will most likely happen as the Govt tries to crack down on Civil Liberties in order to "make us safe", they will wind up creating a whole new breed of Domestic Terrorists. The greatest threat to a Democracy isn't from what lies outside it's borders. What goes on within the borders is much more dangerous.

Democracy Contained by a Government is potentially very explosive. I feel all our govt is doing at the moment is trying to light the fuse of a stick of dynamite that they may not be able to handle...

[Peto]

Additional thoughts on Natiional ID: Creating a NID is just another way of removing States Rights. When the States lose their rights to the Federal Government, the individual falls more under control of a single entity that has less concern for him/her than it does for preserving its own hold on power. Democracy in such a situation applies only if the Controlling Factor agrees with a consensus opinion. If it does not, it can easily over-rule that consensus and put in place its own agenda.

Sound familiar?