Reading Flags

[trongey]

Is it just me (and my R/G colorblindness) or does everyone else have a terrible time telling what kind of flag a target is flying? I have to be almost close enough to board before I can read the flag. Kinda ruins the attack when I have to back up to get out to arming range for the torpedo. Am I missing some tool, or trick?

Tony

[Tool]

External view is what i use.. might be cheating, but in real life you could see much better than the optics on the PC can.

Tool.

[melnibonian]

Is it just me (and my R/G colorblindness) or does everyone else have a terrible time telling what kind of flag a target is flying? I have to be almost close enough to board before I can read the flag. Kinda ruins the attack when I have to back up to get out to arming range for the torpedo. Am I missing some tool, or trick?

Tony
Usually I check with the UZO or the binoculars on the bridge. If I cannot make the flag (especially at night and in bad weather conditions) and the ship is not lighted I fire. This is a common problem real U-Boat Captains had during the war. The whole idea is Fire First Ask Questions Later (within reason obviously ;) ) :arrgh!:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I know I should read the flags, but I also know that darkened ship travelling to/from GB close to the British Islands cannot be neutral or Axis ship. :) The problem arises in daylight as no ships are darkened :), but then I usually do my best to read the flag before launching the torpedo. And yes, I find it extremely hard sometimes, but that's nothing strange, as IRL I have that problem too. :)

[dmlavan]

Let me echo what Melnibonian said. There have been times during the day when I've seen neutrals traveling w/ their lights on. When you get past December 1941 and the US enters the war, you'll find there are fewer neutrals. As a rule I'll fire at a contact that is not illuminated (in the Atlantic... in the Med there are plenty of Italian/Axis ships). One place to be careful is around the Azores and Canary Islands - you can find a lot of Portuguese and Spanish ships transiting those waters.

[BulSoldier]

Dont forget the small Irish convoy.I almost cried when i saw their flag when closed enough.

[trongey]

I guess I'll have to watch for the lights/no lights thing. I've seen plenty of neutrals in the Channel, but never noticed the lights. It's 1939 and most of the ships I saw along the British coast during my last patrol were Norwegian. I thought I saw a Jack on the last one so I sent my final torpedo up his bow - oops . Fortunately, it didn't sink him even though it detonated under his bow. I guess you can shoot a neutral all you want without a renown hit as long as he doesn't sink. I would think in RL the owners of the ship and the supplier of torpedos would both be just a bit miffed about that.

I'm no expert on WWII equipment, but I would have expected any sort of warship to have some honkin' powerful binoculars for ship ID.


Tony

[TomcatMVD]

I'm no expert on WWII equipment, but I would have expected any sort of warship to have some honkin' powerful binoculars for ship ID.
Tony
That's the UZO... you just need to get within range:up:

[Jimbuna]

In the most 'generalised' of terms, the boat being lit or otherwise is usually a fair indication :hmm:

[trongey]

I'm no expert on WWII equipment, but I would have expected any sort of warship to have some honkin' powerful binoculars for ship ID.
Tony That's the UZO... you just need to get within range:up: Well, yes, in theory. I've noticed though, that the attack scope actually seems to give the largest and clearest image, expecially in poor conditions. I've also noticed that the targets seem to be good as spotting me when I'm within 600m on the surface.:hmm:

Tony

[danlisa]

This is exactly why you have 10x zoom on the persicope.;) With it, you should be able to ID a flag from about 2km out.

[papa_smurf]

This is exactly why you have 10x zoom on the persicope.;) With it, you should be able to ID a flag from about 2km out

This is how I ID ships, and I always manage to correctly identify the nationality of the ship im targetting. Saying that, I have on a several occasions got things wrong and sunk a neutral:damn:

[trongey]

This is exactly why you have 10x zoom on the persicope.;) With it, you should be able to ID a flag from about 2km out.
That would be true if I were running GWX (which I plan to do after I finish my current camapaign). Well, the 10x part would be true. The combined performance of my old eyes and my old computer remains to be determined.

[Jimbuna]

This is exactly why you have 10x zoom on the persicope.;) With it, you should be able to ID a flag from about 2km out.
That would be true if I were running GWX (which I plan to do after I finish my current camapaign). Well, the 10x part would be true. The combined performance of my old eyes and my old computer remains to be determined.

You'll be fine matey....enjoy the GWXperience http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[TheBlackHand]

On my first patrol I pulverized a Portugese trawler with my deck gun. Oops!

I thought it odd that he didn't take any evasive action as I drew closer.

Now I'm very careful about checking the flags during the day, particularly if the targets don't zig. Also, as has been pointed out, blackout = torpedo los!

Yesterday I came across three or four neutral ships in a row. Very frustrating as this was happening at the tail end of a dissapointing patrol. I reallly, reallly wanted to sink something. The fattest target was a Japanese tanker!

Much as I would've liked to sink these ships, I got more enjoyment out of the fact that they were there at all. Makes the game much more immersive. Thanks GWX 2! (Now, if we could just solve those durn CTD's that occur every day.)

[trongey]

Yeah, the neutrals and friendlies really add to the immersiveness of the game. As much as I enjoyed SHI I always wished that I could occasionally see something that wasn't a target. Having to identify the contacts adds a lot to the game.

I've never CTD with stock SHIII. Is that something I'll be looking forward to with GWX?
(Sempron 3000+, NVidia 6200 AGP, 1gb PC3200, XP Home)


Tony

[TheBlackHand]

I've never CTD with stock SHIII. Is that something I'll be looking forward to with GWX?

I never had CTD's with the vanilla game either or RUB, for that matter. Unfortunately, I've had extreme CTD's with GWX 2.0. So far, the headaches havent outweighed my enjoyment of the mod . . . but I'm quickly reaching the breaking point.

Not sure if I'll be able to go back to stock SHIII, or even another mod. GWX is really something. How you gonna keep em down on the farm?

Anyhow, if I can't get it to work I'll probably just forget about the game until the next revamp comes along. I pulled SHIII out of the bin just for GWX 2.0. I hope I don't have to put it back there.

Eh, if it won't work maybe that's more incentive to buy a new PC. Probably about time for that anyhow.

[papa_smurf]

Now I'm very careful about checking the flags during the day, particularly if the targets don't zig. Also, as has been pointed out, blackout = torpedo los!


Don't always asume this, especially in the early years of the war. I have, only to find out that I've just sunk a neutral.

[Wreford-Brown]

I came across a convoy moving north out of the English Channel in 1939 and spotted Union Jacks on two staffs, so assumed the whole lot were fair game. The first two were British, the other two I sank were French and therefore neutral. Given the loss of renown for sinking neutrals, I fired 5 eels for a net loss of renown :damn: .
I'm now very careful to ID each target, although mixed convoys are far less frequent once most of Europe declares war on the Fatherland.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

I came across a convoy moving north out of the English Channel in 1939 and spotted Union Jacks on two staffs, so assumed the whole lot were fair game. The first two were British, the other two I sank were French and therefore neutral. Given the loss of renown for sinking neutrals, I fired 5 eels for a net loss of renown :damn: .
I'm now very careful to ID each target, although mixed convoys are far less frequent once most of Europe declares war on the Fatherland.
I don't suppose French were ever neutral after they cowardly declared war on us on Sep. 3 '39, in the same moment GB did. :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

I came across a convoy moving north out of the English Channel in 1939 and spotted Union Jacks on two staffs, so assumed the whole lot were fair game. The first two were British, the other two I sank were French and therefore neutral. Given the loss of renown for sinking neutrals, I fired 5 eels for a net loss of renown :damn: .
I'm now very careful to ID each target, although mixed convoys are far less frequent once most of Europe declares war on the Fatherland.
I don't suppose French were ever neutral after they cowardly declared war on us on Sep. 3 '39, in the same moment GB did. :hmm:

Could you explain ? :hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

I came across a convoy moving north out of the English Channel in 1939 and spotted Union Jacks on two staffs, so assumed the whole lot were fair game. The first two were British, the other two I sank were French and therefore neutral. Given the loss of renown for sinking neutrals, I fired 5 eels for a net loss of renown :damn: .
I'm now very careful to ID each target, although mixed convoys are far less frequent once most of Europe declares war on the Fatherland.
I don't suppose French were ever neutral after they cowardly declared war on us on Sep. 3 '39, in the same moment GB did. :hmm:

Could you explain ? :hmm:
I'm curious as well. According to the actual radio traffic reproduced in the RadioLog mods, the French dithered back and forth for some time on whether they were actually at war, and OKM gave orders that u-boats were emphatically NOT to attack French shipping until further notice.

[edit]Every source I can find says that France did indeed declare war, which makes it even more confusing, because u-boats really were ordered not to attack French shipping.

"...I must, on behalf of my Government, remind you for the last time of the heavy responsibility assumed by the Government of the Reich by entering, without a declaration of war, into hostilities against Poland and in not acting upon the suggestion made by the Governments of the French Republic and of His Britannic Majesty to suspend all aggressive action against Poland and to declare itself ready to withdraw its forces promptly from Polish territory.
I have the painful duty to notify you that as from today, September 3, at 5 p.m., the French Government will find itself obliged to fulfill the obligations that France has contracted towards Poland, and which are known to the German Government."
-Ambassador Robert Coulondre to German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop

September 3, 1939

http://www.worldatwar.net/timeline/other/diplomacy39-45.html

[Jimbuna]

The truth is out there.....does anyone know the URL :hmm:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

GB and France had a military alliance with Poland, and both the countries declared war against Germany on 3 September '39. I'm a bit confused as I thought that was obvious and needs no explanation.

Another fact is that France hadn't acted aggresively against Germany before German invasion and French defeat, thus the name of that period - "a strange war".

Some problems can arise as to "being at war or not" after French-German armistice of June 22 '40, but if I understand correctly, that's not the problem here. :)

EDIT: I guess the "strange war" is the origin of Polish saying "trustworthy as French ally". ;) Huge part of Polish society during and after war took GB and France behaviour as treason (not fullfilling the alliance obligations is a treason in fact). Even the date of declaring war on Germany ("2 days late") was commented as cowardness, but lack of military action against enemy was the worst in opinion of masses as well as the politicians.

[Jimbuna]

It's a real shame IMO if the people of Poland considered the British as being traitors and cowards. :nope:
There are multitudes of references out there to show what the British government did to train and rearm all those Poles who flocked to Britain and wished to carry on with the struggle against a mutual enemy :hmm:

[Abd_von_Mumit]

It's a real shame IMO if the people of Poland considered the British as being traitors and cowards. :nope:
There are multitudes of references out there to show what the British government did to train and rearm all those Poles who flocked to Britain and wished to carry on with the struggle against a mutual enemy :hmm:
It a bit off topic... And I feel it's my fault.

I hope noone takes anything personally. It's just how it WAS, these were the poeple's opinions and nothing more. Just imagine... you wake up early in the morning and all the city is talking about your country's boarder being crossed two hours before by neighbour-country forces, on half the boarder length, without declaration of war. You say to yourself - we'll be ok after a while, the enemy has to deal with our allies too and he is surely not capable of doing that. And you turn your radio on to hear the good news: "our allies have declared war on the aggressor!". But all you hear is defeat reports. Every hour counts, every moment could be crucial, but no, no good news. Same next day. "BUT WE HAD A ****ING ALLIANCE" you say to yourself... Finally on the third day the good news comes, soon to be turned to bad news - "They declared the war, but only on paper, as they still play golf and watch fireworks above our country". You would probably call it treason. And you would probably never forget these two days of waiting. Even after all these years of strict cooperation and alliance. And probably you could even think to yourself: "They only care for the allliance after being attacked themselves...". Couldn't you?

It's extremely hard to gain trust and it's horribly easy to loose it. :) As we all know from our everyday experience.


Poles are a fighting nation. Poland was a quite aggresive state till XVIIIth century, then it lost independence to Prussia, Austria and Russia and uprised many times in that 123 years period against the oppressors, even if fighting was absurd. After regaining independence in 1918 Poland waged war against EVERY SINGLE NEIGHBOUR but Russia (only because Russia attacked first) and it took another three years of fight to gain peace again. Polish anthem till today says about "taking back with the sabre was was taken from us", there are still people wishing to fight to regain control over Lviv, Grodno and Vilnius (Ukraina, Belarus, Lietuva/Lithuania). You learn to love bloodshed, fighting and your weapon at school... It's sick, I know.

People like this are simply unable to understand how it is possible not to fight to defend your ally, from the very moment he is endangered. :)

[Jimbuna]

I'm not about to dispute what you claim were or perhaps still the thoughts of your countrymen.
We (Britain) also stood alone against the aggressor, but were perhaps a little more fortunate in the sense that our greatest ally helped us by way od supplying war materials.
many mistakes were made in the very early days of the conflict.....Chamberlain and "Peace in our time" being one of the earliest and prime examples.
What I would like to believe though, is that your country recognises the effort made by Britain in assisting the Polish people as a credible fighting force in the early days following her defeat by her aggressor.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

What I would like to believe though, is that your country recognises the effort made by Britain in assisting the Polish people as a credible fighting force in the early days following her defeat by her aggressor.
No doubt, never fear. :) And I hope someone in GB still remembers those Polish pilots that took 11% of German aircraft during the Battle of England and so on. :)

Things change as time passes. Young Poles hardly remember who was our ally and who was not, MTV/PC's/sports are much more important for them. You say "Anglia" (England), you hear "Manchester United". Nothing indicates that European countries (but the Balkans region) will ever fight each other again and lets hope we will never have to declare war on anyone again. :up:

[Jimbuna]

What I would like to believe though, is that your country recognises the effort made by Britain in assisting the Polish people as a credible fighting force in the early days following her defeat by her aggressor.
No doubt, never fear. :) And I hope someone in GB still remembers those Polish pilots that took 11% of German aircraft during the Battle of England and so on. :)

Things change as time passes. Young Poles hardly remember who was our ally and who was not, MTV/PC's/sports are much more important for them. You say "Anglia" (England), you hear "Manchester United". Nothing indicates that European countries (but the Balkans region) will ever fight each other again and lets hope we will never have to declare war on anyone again. :up:

Rgr that matey http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Blacklight]

You think you guys have it bad. I'm colorblind !! Therefore a LOT of those flags look VERY MUCH ALIKE to me even on the nice flag list that was provided for us (Why can't some countries be more inventive with their flag designs so they don't all look alike to colorblind people !?!:damn: ). So far though, luckily, I havn't caused an "international incedent". I stick to ships that I absolutely can tell aren't neutral. I usually follow ships until night and then if they aren't lit up.. I take them out.

[Abd_von_Mumit]

You think you guys have it bad. I'm colorblind !! Therefore a LOT of those flags look VERY MUCH ALIKE to me even on the nice flag list that was provided for us (Why can't some countries be more inventive with their flag designs so they don't all look alike to colorblind people !?!:damn: ). So far though, luckily, I havn't caused an "international incedent". I stick to ships that I absolutely can tell aren't neutral. I usually follow ships until night and then if they aren't lit up.. I take them out.
Sad to say, but colour blindness would probably close the way to naval career in most armies, as colour is crucial not only for reading flags, but also signal language and maps. That however doesn't mean you won't succeed in commanding a U-Boot, once you are one. :) Have you consedered transfering to the Far East flotilla? Their flags are so much simpler than European to read, that you'll probably never need to think about colours. :up:

[Wreford-Brown]

It's always interesting to see where some of these posts go - we started with difficulty identifying flags and ended up discussing possible future wars in Europe.
Guess that's what makes subsim so addictive!

[Jimbuna]

It's always interesting to see where some of these posts go - we started with difficulty identifying flags and ended up discussing possible future wars in Europe.
Guess that's what makes subsim so addictive!

You can say that again :up: