Would like to a mature discussion of SH3/SH4?

[MarkShot]

My questions:

(1) Taking the basic games without any mods with the latest patches, what are the differences in game play?

(2) Taking the games with the most commonly used mods GWX2 for SH3 and I don't know what for SH4, what are the differences in game play?

I got a new PC last March and got SH3 and SH4 at that time. I recently have returned to playing some SH3/GWX. I have not really done anything with SH4 as I was mainly waiting for the product to reach its most evolved state of developer patches and player mods. But I am trying to decide if besides giving SH3 another chance (I am an SHCE and AOD player), if I should give SH4 at try.

Now, I have noticed a disturbing trend in the SH3 and SH4 forums in that an intelligent mature discussion/comparisson of the two games cannot be had in either of the forums. It invariably gets skewed, nasty, personal, and locked/deleted. I hope that I can ask my question safely here in this forum and that SH3/SH4 has not become the next Harpoon style battlefield (HC versus H2/3).

Thank you.

[Takeda Shingen]

Now, I have noticed a disturbing trend in the SH3 and SH4 forums in that an intelligent mature discussion/comparisson of the two games cannot be had in either of the forums. It invariably gets skewed, nasty, personal, and locked/deleted. I hope that I can ask my question safely here in this forum and that SH3/SH4 has not become the next Harpoon style battlefield (HC versus H2/3).

Good luck. GT is a whole lot like the wild west: Lots of shoot outs, bar fights and tobaccy spittin'. We practically invented nasty and personal.

[Skybird]

Tak is exaggerating. Compared to other sites and places, the GT forum is a gentlemen's longue - except on rodeo day. :)

[MarkShot]

Is there a better location for this?

I was thinking of putting it in the Classic forum, but these games are too new. I figured posting in either the SH3 or SH4 Forum would be a mistake.

[Takeda Shingen]

Actually, I was going to move the thread, but you are correct: There really is no other place to put it. I was just remarking that civility is not one of GTs strong suits.

[Ducimus]

The first question you should ask yourself, is if you have a preference on theater. That, is the dividinig line and point of contention, and is what seperates the community aside from the usual poltics/drama of modding.

I can give you an objective opinion of both games, aside from theater, but theater preference is a major hurdle because it can get nasty.

[MarkShot]

Personally, I am most interested in the quality of game play: the hunt, the attack, and the evasion.

[HunterICX]

Personally, I am most interested in the quality of game play: the hunt, the attack, and the evasion.
then go for Silent Hunter 3,

as history will give you 1 thing for sure, its damn hard to survive in the late war 43 - 45. because basicly Germany lost a lot of their uboat fleet and lost the battle for the atlantic
you will get a free hunting ground in the early years but that will dissapear as soon the enemy advances in technology&Tactics. you will sometimes be glad when you are safe back in port.

You have to use tactics , and a plan in order to attack a convoy for example, and ofcourse you need to be very aware of the enemy escort movements. a mistake can be fatal to your plan and even to the uboat.

just my 2 cents

HunterICX

[Ducimus]

The hunt and attack is the same in both titles. Evasion is a little easier in Sh4, and harder in SH3, thats about the only major difference in terms of gameplay.

Technically speaking, Sh4 is better in terms of how the game handles/loads campaign scripting and graphics.

In terms of overall feel, SH3 is better in terms of completeness. The lack of interactive crew and certain voices not being complete - the overall interaction with the crew and submarine interior, is lacking in SH4. This is where the games rush to completion hurts it most, and is its biggest downfall.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Why not try SH4, does not mean you cannot play SH3/GWX as well. SH4 has come along way since 1.0: http://www.subsim.com/articles/2007_year_review0.php (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/../articles/2007_year_review0.php) , patches and mods have really elevated the experience both visually and the level of AI.

If you already have the game fire it up and give it a try, be patient with it, it is not SH3, nor should it be, it is a different game, theatre and overall experience.

We are lucky to have two fine sims at our disposal, never a better time to be into subsimming :yep::up:


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

My suggestion, play both. SH3 has matured and GWX has made it just about complete is one could ask for. The reason I say play SH4 as well...because you can grow with the game and grow with mods that are being done with it. Eventually SH4 will reach it's summit as SH3 and you will be happy you had grown with it. Both are great games with great modders throwing everything they can dream up at the files. You do not want to miss any of it.

[JSF]

Personally, I am most interested in the quality of game play: the hunt, the attack, and the evasion.

You will find both simulations enjoyable and very challenging on both those counts especially when played using manual targeting.

[Sailor Steve]

Tak is exaggerating. Compared to other sites and places, the GT forum is a gentlemen's longue - except on rodeo day. :)
Speak for yerself, ya liver-eatin', egg-stealin', slime-swillin', double-dealin', four-flushin', mud-slingin' low-life excuse for a hog-wallow!

We now return you to your regular broadcast.


Sorry, Mark; GT is also the place where we unwind and have fun.

[mrbeast]

Actually with all the 'gun-slinging' on other threads this one seems pretty peaceful.....so far!:lol:

[MarkShot]

Actually, I prefer not to grow with games/patches/mods.

I very much like finally starting with a game when it has fully matured. So, most bugs are gone, lots of guides and tutorials available, and wonderful mods to enjoy. I have spent years beta testing games and currently even am a part owner of a game development shop. For my free time, I just want to enjoy myself and not struggle with issues.

This is why I am just now getting start with SH3 and have happily been playing AOD and SHCE. I think SH3 is pretty much at its zenith. I don't think there is much for me to gain by waiting another year before playing it.

[Ducimus]

I must have missed the part about not having played Sh3 yet. If your into sub sims, and havent played it yet, your doing yourself a disservice. i think you'll get at least 2 or 3 years worth of enjoyment out of it.

[Sailor Steve]

You're probably right. It stands a good chance of getting even better, but from here on in it's likely to be all 'goodies', and not much correction.

[MarkShot]

I played SH3/GWX a bit about six months ago for three weeks. Then, I went on to other things. I am just coming back now.

I spent quite a bit of time with SC, SC/SCX/SCU, and DW-LWAMI. These games have a good engine, but the fun factor just is lacking when compared with WWII dynamic campaign subs with simple and unconfused objectives.

SH4 I installed. Launched it and that was about it. At the moment, it is not even installed.

I haven't installed GWX2 yet; still have 1.03. I want to see how much fun it is. I suspect I will probably end up playing SH3/GWX/NYGM, SHCE, and AOD this year.

[CDR Resser]

At present, I am playing both SH3/GWX 2.0/Uboat1.2 and SH4 with several of the available mods. I have used both the Trigger Maru and Real Fleet Boat "super mods"
over the past several months.

I must say that GWX goes a very long way to making SH3 more interesting to me.
SH3 seems to have reached a level where to improve it any further would require modifications that would result in a brand new sim, with everything that that entails, e.g. new engine.

SH4 is reaching the point, after four official patches, it should have been when it was released. There are, in addition, several glaring omissions from the game that are being addressed by the mod community. Lurker has completely redone the dynamic campaign according to historical references. Ducimus has added the class of US subs that were left from the game. Once these items are completely addressed, the rest is just refinement. The pace of mods is quite rapid. There are so many very good mods, it is hard to complete a patrol before the next "must have mod" is released. I just hope that we can convince Ducimus or another to remodel the Narwhal class to their full glory.;)

[kiwi_2005]

Yes just play both. Me when i find the time i spend a week in SH4 then the next week in SH3 and repeat.

SH3 is okay without any mods patched to 1.4. if you want to learn the game and have fun really, once thats over then try out the mods like GWX 2, NYGM to name a few.

SH4 was a bit buggy when it came out but still playable, but with the latest patch its now very good. Then move on to the mods like Trigger Maru, Run silent run deep, plenty of good ones available.

I tried sticking to just one (SH4) but found it impossible as i like commanding Uboats as well. So i now play both. The soon to be release Uboat addon for SH4 might make me finally put away SH3 for good.

[Chock]

They're both good sims, but if we are being honest a lot of the differences between the two are purely cosmetic when you get right down to it, so I think most people would favour the one which most parallels their real-world favourite. Eye candy is okay, and certainly welcome, but it's not the main draw of a slower-paced 'thinking man's PC sim' which is what submarine sims are in comparison to your FPS types, if eye candy were the main attraction, Dangerous Waters would have sold about two copies.

I play them both, but German subs have a bit more interest for me personally, so for no other reason than that, if I had to pick one, it would be SH3.

Oh, almost forgot, this is the general topics forum isn't it? where everyone is nasty and partisan, so, erm, WHY DON'T YOU FECK OFF YOU BASTID! SH4 IS TEH SUK, SH3 RULEZ. Will that do? Jolly good.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

Tak is exaggerating. Compared to other sites and places, the GT forum is a gentlemen's longue - except on rodeo day. :)
Speak for yerself, ya liver-eatin', egg-stealin', slime-swillin', double-dealin', four-flushin', mud-slingin' low-life excuse for a hog-wallow!

We now return you to your regular broadcast.


Sorry, Mark; GT is also the place where we unwind and have fun.
What a ride! Bruises all over my lower back!

[STEED]

A serious dissuasion. :huh: Hang on just putting my slippers on & my smoking jacket....................Now where is my pipe...............Found it.

Let's get the bleeding easy one out the way with, yes SH4 has better graphics. What did you expect? It's a newer game after all, moving on to the games patched to Ubi patches and that's it.

The only thing I think is daft in both of them is the renown system which lets face it, it's got nothing to do with the events of WW2 there you are back from patrol and some bloke tots up your points. :doh: Sorry no, apart from that both games are playable and both give you and insight what it was like on the American and German sides.

On the German side all goes well for you in the early years but the Allies catch up and over take the Germans in the war of technology and you face the situation the war at sea swings against you and it's all down hill for you.

On the American side you have taken a blow by the Japanese and progress is slow but your now on the Allied side and the Allies are going to win the war.

I find SH3 interface a bit more user friendly than SH4 but in SH4 you have a better chance to escape those tin can destroyers unlike SH3. Both offer you the player to be the Allies or Axis and of course different theaters of war to patrol in. I think at the end of the day it's you who decides if you only like SH3 or SH4 and maybe you like both.

MODS

Mods made by the mod community have bought SH3 new life more so with GWX 2.0 which really has gone along way to in prove on the game. No doubt in a year or two a super mod will come out for SH4 and breed new life into the game as well.

[Jimbuna]

Very fair and balanced STEED :yep:

[Ducimus]

With both theaters, which side wins, or loses, from a GAME standpoint, doesnt really matter. The end of the war is the destination, the game is all about the trip in getting there. I personally don't think getting to the end of the war is any easier or harder in either theater.

[kiwi_2005]

A serious dissuasion. :huh: Hang on just putting my slippers on & my smoking jacket....................Now where is my pipe...............Found it.

Let's get the bleeding easy one out the way with, yes SH4 has better graphics. What did you expect? It's a newer game after all, moving on to the games patched to Ubi patches and that's it.

The only thing I think is daft in both of them is the renown system which lets face it, it's got nothing to do with the events of WW2 there you are back from patrol and some bloke tots up your points. :doh: Sorry no, apart from that both games are playable and both give you and insight what it was like on the American and German sides.

On the German side all goes well for you in the early years but the Allies catch up and over take the Germans in the war of technology and you face the situation the war at sea swings against you and it's all down hill for you.

On the American side you have taken a blow by the Japanese and progress is slow but your now on the Allied side and the Allies are going to win the war.

I find SH3 interface a bit more user friendly than SH4 but in SH4 you have a better chance to escape those tin can destroyers unlike SH3. Both offer you the player to be the Allies or Axis and of course different theaters of war to patrol in. I think at the end of the day it's you who decides if you only like SH3 or SH4 and maybe you like both.

MODS

Mods made by the mod community have bought SH3 new life more so with GWX 2.0 which really has gone along way to in prove on the game. No doubt in a year or two a super mod will come out for SH4 and breed new life into the game as well.

SH4 doesn't need a supermod like SH3 does. The graphics is already artwork the AI can be upped with the mods we have now and the Uboat addon is coming. Put them all together that there is a super mod :yep:

[Jimbuna]

With both theaters, which side wins, or loses, from a GAME standpoint, doesnt really matter. The end of the war is the destination, the game is all about the trip in getting there. I personally don't think getting to the end of the war is any easier or harder in either theater.

Couldn't possibly comment.....I've never made it to the end in SHIV :damn:

[joea]

With both theaters, which side wins, or loses, from a GAME standpoint, doesnt really matter. The end of the war is the destination, the game is all about the trip in getting there. I personally don't think getting to the end of the war is any easier or harder in either theater.

Couldn't possibly comment.....I've never made it to the end in SHIV :damn:

Never made it to the end in SH3 myself, in GWX forget it! Thank goodness for the retirement function in SH3 Commander.

[AVGWarhawk]

With both theaters, which side wins, or loses, from a GAME standpoint, doesnt really matter. The end of the war is the destination, the game is all about the trip in getting there. I personally don't think getting to the end of the war is any easier or harder in either theater.
Couldn't possibly comment.....I've never made it to the end in SHIV :damn:
Never made it to the end in SH3 myself, in GWX forget it! Thank goodness for the retirement function in SH3 Commander.

Oh hell, I was the founder of the "2nd Patrol Your Dead Club" in the SH3/GWX:oops:. Making it to the end was not in the cards for me in SH3/GWX.

[Ducimus]

You guys suck! I made it to the end of the war in a slower diving type 9 for cripes sakes. :rotfl: (and no, i didnt duck convoys either. :smug: )

[AVGWarhawk]

Hell Duci, somedays I did not make it out of the harbor. Just submerged at the pier for 2 months and surfaced like I just arrived back. It was hell out there:dead:

[Dowly]

Hell Duci, somedays I did not make it out of the harbor. Just submerged at the pier for 2 months and surfaced like I just arrived back. It was hell out there:dead:

:rotfl::rotfl:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hell Duci, somedays I did not make it out of the harbor. Just submerged at the pier for 2 months and surfaced like I just arrived back. It was hell out there:dead:

You told me once AVG that you also hit one of your own ships a time or two as well
when leaving port :lol:


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Hell Duci, somedays I did not make it out of the harbor. Just submerged at the pier for 2 months and surfaced like I just arrived back. It was hell out there:dead:
You told me once AVG that you also hit one of your own ships a time or two as well
when leaving port :lol:


RDP

Yep, ran right into the bugger. Boat was damaged and I had to return to the pier. The band left and the nurses all turned away. It was an ugly scene. Those were the days;)

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hell Duci, somedays I did not make it out of the harbor. Just submerged at the pier for 2 months and surfaced like I just arrived back. It was hell out there:dead:
You told me once AVG that you also hit one of your own ships a time or two as well
when leaving port :lol:


RDP
Yep, ran right into the bugger. Boat was damaged and I had to return to the pier. The band left and the nurses all turned away. It was an ugly scene. Those were the days;)

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:


RDP

[Ducimus]

What a NOB! :rotfl: