If there is an SH5

[pythos]

Many people have posited that if there is a next installment of the series it should be the cold war. To my knowledge those boats did little but lurk about in the dephts spooking everyone.

Nah.

I say we return to the German U-boat...in 1914.

I have played shells of fury, and would very much like the u-boats of this period of time get the treatment that UBI gave The WWII U-boats, and American submarines.

More like SH3 though, with interactive crew, and more rooms, along with water spray that makes noise:-), Propper departure and arrival with waving crowds and so on.

It would probably be a much simpler game to make seeing as the only detection methods were eyes. No sonar until later in the war. No TDC, and very dumb torpedoes. Primative boats, and just about as primative surface vessles.

For those that didn't like simulating a soldier of the sea serving a ruthless and genocidal political party led by a madman, The WWI boats served your average everyday "king" who just wanted to take land. Also, the prize rules would make the game interesting. such as a U-boat spotting a target, surfacing, pointing it's gun at the ship, and ordering those aboard off before blowing it out of the water.

Plus the boats would be risky in themselves.

What do memebers here think of proposing this idea to the Devs?

[Rockin Robbins]

It's taking a big chance that people will not be interested in learning about something they know nothing about. We see some resistance to SH4 because the American sub program was shrouded in secrecy and therefore is less known to Europeans than the German U-Boat program. What captures people's imaginations sells. In order to capture their imagination there must be compelling reasons for curiosity about the simulation, based on some prior knowledge. Do people know enough about WWI U-boats to have that compelling curiosity? I do, but I'm plenty strange. Still I think there are rewards if Ubi is willing to take that chance.

I would welcome a WWI simulation of the quality of the SH series. I would be much less interested in WWIII lurking and gathering information, punctuated by "exciting" telephone cable splicing. It would take a lot of effort and cheap prices to entice me to bite on that one. I would buy the WWI simulation without any prompting at all.

[AVGWarhawk]

Me too, RR!

[SteamWake]

Ah man ! That telephone cable splicing would do it for me ! :-?

[aurora-7]

I'd like a WWI sub sim, too, along with a new WWI aircombat sim that would be at least the same caliber as Red Baron 3D. I haven't been able to fly an S.E.5 in years.:cry:

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Ah, a man after me old heart. A WWI combat flight sim is what I'm looking for and a good quality one with great gameplay and graphics.:up: I'd like to play a WWI sub sim also. Although I'd rather play those gunboats disguised as merchants. Imagine the look on a German captain's face when the sides of the boat comes down to reveal a plethora of guns aiming at you.:yep:

[Sailor Steve]

A WWI combat flight sim is what I'm looking for and a good quality one with great gameplay and graphics.:up:
Quite a few people have said good things about the Over Flanders Fields mod for CFS3.

I agree, a WWI version of SH3/4 would be fantastic. But I also agree: how many would they actually sell.

[FIREWALL]

Hi pythos and the rest of the gang. :)

I posted on a simular thread awhile ago but will put my 2 cents here too.

IMHO SH-3 is done. Maybe a future no cd patch like SH4.

Reason I think UBI looked GWX 2.0 over and figured that crew took it legaly and ethicaly as far as it can go and why spend anymore money on it.

Now you get to SH4. Future addon to the Atlantic.
If it sells well then maybe addons are the way to go for awhile for a niche game.

In the past before SH4 alot of posts of "I wish they had a combined SH-3 and Destroyer Command".

LOW and BEHOLD... SH4 has a feature online to command a DESTROYER and Convoy. I wonder why.

It makes me think that maybe their watching how many go online " a way to keep count" and possibly make a Task Force addon.

I even have a title for it. SH TASK FORCE HUNTER KILLER :D

Object : Hunt for Subs useing the technology of the time.

If they don't go that way I wish they would.

For you WWI BUFFS take a look at Shells of Fury Neal in his Best 10 of 2007 gave it a :up: .

OT for our flight sim member try MS X and Flanders Field mod for WWI .
Watch out for The Red Baron :D

[Zayphod]

There USED to be a site called www.deepangel.com (http://www.deepangel.com) (dead now), about supersonic subs, future battle, etc. Wasn't sure if it was supposed to be a CGI movie, game, or both (I assumed both). Thing used super-cavitation to go at blazing speeds under the sea, burn hydrogen taken from seawater.

Personally, I'd like to see something in the future where the outcome is not known (we all know who won WW I and WW II, the only mission is to survive until the end of the war).

Not talking about 688 attack sub, trying to keep the peace, but a real battle where you shoot, they shoot, everyone has a chance to visit Davy Jone's locker (and clean out his old socks out of said locker - they've been there way too long!).

The problem I've always had with modern subs is that it's too 'easy' - not like the subs of yester-year where they were at a major disadvantage to the much faster destroyers. The modern-day type of sub-sims just gave a few missions, try to keep WW III from starting up, etc. I've always wanted to see what those babies could do in a real shooting match. Perhaps against Dr Evil? :|\\

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

Davey Jone's Locker
Someone called?:D

[Ducimus]

I have an alternate idea for a Sh5. Personnally, i think it should depart from historical events while maintaining some semblance of historical technical detail, and take place in a Post ww2, pre nuke boat, fictious cold war scenario.

My reasons are many:

- WW1 might not have enough cool toys to play with like homing torpedos, radar, or RWR.

- The whole WW2 axis vs allies thing is overdone. Some folks are die hard atlantic, others die hard pacific, i think its time to step away from both theaters.

- Cold war scenario has never been done as far as i know.

- Nuclear boats are boring. Diesal boats have lot more gameplay with them.

- The post WW2 era had some of the greatest advances in diesal boat technology, which could be fun to play with.

[TDK1044]

I have an alternate idea for a Sh5. Personnally, i think it should depart from historical events while maintaining some semblance of historical technical detail, and take place in a Post ww2, pre nuke boat, fictious cold war scenario.

My reasons are many:

- WW1 might not have enough cool toys to play with like homing torpedos, radar, or RWR.

- The whole WW2 axis vs allies thing is overdone. Some folks are die hard atlantic, others die hard pacific, i think its time to step away from both theaters.

- Cold war scenario has never been done as far as i know.

- Nuclear boats are boring. Diesal boats have lot more gameplay with them.

- The post WW2 era had some of the greatest advances in diesal boat technology, which could be fun to play with.


I think Ubisoft may well consider that option as a possibility.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have an alternate idea for a Sh5. Personnally, i think it should depart from historical events while maintaining some semblance of historical technical detail, and take place in a Post ww2, pre nuke boat, fictious cold war scenario.

My reasons are many:

- WW1 might not have enough cool toys to play with like homing torpedos, radar, or RWR.

- The whole WW2 axis vs allies thing is overdone. Some folks are die hard atlantic, others die hard pacific, i think its time to step away from both theaters.

- Cold war scenario has never been done as far as i know.

- Nuclear boats are boring. Diesal boats have lot more gameplay with them.

- The post WW2 era had some of the greatest advances in diesal boat technology, which could be fun to play with.

I think Ubisoft may well consider that option as a possibility.

Nice :roll::up:, I agree with Ducimus, nukes would be boring, but pre-nuke subs in the Cold War era could have some nice gaming possibilities.


RDP

[Q3ark]

I think it would be cool to visit the Mediteranian with some of the British boats. There where some desperate battles out there against the Italians and the ever present Germans. The Med is very shallow and the larger T class subs had a very tough time out there. They had a high loss rate, those of you finding the pacific too easy would have much more fun in there i think:D.

I also agree with Duci. Nuke subs are boring. Tried sub command, still have it somewhere collecting dust. Not my cop of tea at all.

[John Channing]

Actually the average depth of the Med is between 1430 and 1500 meters (depending on who you ask) and the deepest recorded point is 5,267 meters (about 3.27 miles) in the Calypso Deep in the Ionian Sea.

JCC

[John Channing]

But back on topic....

I would like to see a China vs Nato scenario. Shallow water, modern technology, nukes vs deisels.

Either that or a 60's cold war turns hot scenario.

Butthat just me...

JCC

[Hartmann]

A good solution could be a time period from pre nuke subs to the first nuke submarines, and other modern devices.
start with diesel submarines and end with nukes, perhaps in separate campaigns.

i don´t think that a nuclear submarine is booring, you have to deal with the turbines noise, cavitation at some depths, Very quiet diesel submarines, possible reactor malfuntions, crew phisical an mental fatigue (stay 2 months at 200 meters is not easy ), and dangers like frigates with towed sonars, helos.. homing torpedoes..:hmm:

[Q3ark]

Actually the average depth of the Med is between 1430 and 1500 meters (depending on who you ask) and the deepest recorded point is 5,267 meters (about 3.27 miles) in the Calypso Deep in the Ionian Sea.

JCC

Realy? That'll teach me to check my sources before posting :oops: :rotfl:

But still think a Med campaign would be cool

[dean_acheson]

I good solution would be Destroyer Command 2.

[Sailor Steve]

I've said in the past that I think SH5 should wait until the next level of technology is available for a truly updated game, but the more I read ideas people have the more I see the possibility for UBI selling both older and newer sub warfare sims based on the current SH4 technology.

I'm not sure if I would be interested in a modern sim, but standing on the bridge of a brand new attack sub and watching the water swirl over that torpedo-shaped bow? Hmm...

If enough people played it and liked it, I might feel the need to join in.:sunny:

[CCIP]

I good solution would be Destroyer Command 2.

Yep, that's what I'm really waiting on now, more so then a future SH. It's not that there's no way we can have a better subsim - but let's admit, at this point we have both an Atlantic and a Pacific sim that are equally functional and fun to play. Personally I like the WWII focus of the SH series and I'm fine with it staying there. I'd rather have them do WWII subs in the future as well - but given time and a brand new engine.

[John Channing]

Agreed. That would be my number 1 choice.

JCC

[Torplexed]

I good solution would be Destroyer Command 2.

Hear! Hear! Looonnngg overdue. :)

[kiwi_2005]

SH5 = a Watered down "Dangerous Waters" type game with dynamic campaign during the Cold war era or maybe a war a few yrs into the future.

Then again Destroyer Command 2 would be great also

[FIREWALL]

Destroyer Command :up:

Now why didn't I post that.

[pythos]

Way to take a thread completely off topic guys, thanks.

[Rockin Robbins]

Why take the next step before you're maximized the possibilities for profit of the current scenario. Each step finances the next and I'd buy a destroyer command for SH4 in a flash.

[dean_acheson]

If we all held our breath until we turned blue and stomped our feet alot, do you think that UBI might consider it?

Lord God knows, I'd love to just sit at my desk and enjoy the view from the bridge of my Fletcher class rig.... ah..... how nice that would be.

Gosh, just to go for a ride with Taffy 3.

...hold breath starting now......

[Iron Budokan]

Ah man ! That telephone cable splicing would do it for me ! :-?

I'm drooling just thinking about it!

[scrag]

1. Present Cold War sub sims are very in accurate and frankly pretty stupid overall - simply not enough data is available to make it accurate enough - much easier to make a modern tank or Aircraft sim as you can get a pretty close feel on much of it. Nuclear Sub sims are simply not well done (on a SH level). Cold War 46 - 52 does not match up well historically either - NATO would have swept the seas of any creditable Soviet threat forcing a nuclear confrontation or withdrawal. NATO vs PRC ??????? Atlantic - Pacific - not happening. There was a SEATO organization but it seemingly evaporated. A PRC Vs Japan scenario is plausible and meets some of the points. Take a look at the historical timeline involved after WWII and the numbers of ships involved and my point is made.
I maintain my suggestion of bringing in the other Navies of WWII (Japan, UK, France, Italy) under there respective alliances and make them playable OR bring SHIII up to SH IV video quality, SHIV to SHIII interface, playability and merge them into one sim and add the other countires submarine forces - on a global scale would be pretty involved and entertaining.

[LtCmdrRat]

Gents, with all respect to all opinions, I offer idea of Alternative History on the Earth2 (parallel Universe if you want).
All sub technologies of post WWII era (diesels technologies, I like decimus diesel offer) and 2 or 3 states having permament "hot" submarine conflict having goal to take certain areas of oceans floor under thier control. War for resourses. sub/ship(ai) against sub /ships(under ai) war.
No USA, no Soviet Union, no China. Just for example North Empire against South United Kingdom. No ideology blsht.

[Alex]

- The whole WW2 axis vs allies thing is overdone. Some folks are die hard atlantic, others die hard pacific, i think its time to step away from both theaters.

As the devs have now the knowledge on the german and american campaigns... How about developing a new SH that could give the choice to play as a sub commander or a u-boot kapitän, using a new 3D engine and all ? :D

Then, there would be no more war between pacific and atlantic players, as the 2 sides would be available. :cool:

:sunny:

[sqk7744]

Good call dean_acheson! :up:

[LtCmdrRat]

i insist on sub vs sub hunting game! :-)

[Extra Ketchup]

I think if done right, a cold war simulation could be very interesting. Having served on a nuke sub and taken part in TREs (simulating full-out Naval engagements), I found the real-life experience quite engaging!

There are obvious differences between modern nuke and WWII diesel subs. Shooting tends to be a lot easier. Computers pretty much make torpedo launches a point-n-click operation. Torpedo yields make it pretty easy to sink something. Torpedoes can also be fired from further away.

The challenge arises in avoiding detection, surviving enemy homing torpedoes, dealing with tricky things like nuclear reactors, etc.

One big difference is that the role of the submarine is a bit different. To sink a ship in the modern world, a harpoon missile launched from ship or aircraft is the quickest and easiest way. Subs are now more interested in other subs, as well as well as watching enemy fleets undetected, inserting special forces, etc.

All that said, if the right sense of immersion could be provided (and I've yet to play a 688 simulator that does a good job at this), it could be a lot of fun. However, I do know what you are all saying - the more automated and technologically-advanced something becomes, usually the less "fun" it is. For example, modern aircraft engagements (shoot before you see the enemy and let the missile do all the work) just don't play out like a good, old-fashioned dogfight in a bi-plane over WWI Europe... The same can be said for Naval engagements.. I say all this regarding computer games, not the real thing (there is nothing "fun" about real war).

[stlkrash]

How bout take what we have and add true time GMT multiplayer thats not mission based, but, an evolving thing like wwii online in a way. It could include strat elements as the sub elements, perhaps playable task forces. Basically set it up in true time world wide and you can play the big 4 USA UK GER JAP. Them leave it somewhat more open ended and see where it goes. Also set up some ture time radio servers. True comms, tele type and lamps. Just my ideas in rought form.

[ryu1940]

By true time you mean no time compression? I get underway for a living...the thought of a true time naval sim in non combat phases of a mission doesn't sound very appealing.

[Javelin]

Seems like many years ago, but I remember playing Red Strom Rising. I thought that it was a very good sim, and always wanted some gaming company to take that and redo it using todays graphics, etc.

[dean_acheson]

thanks for all the comments guys, I have to admit, I shill for DC2 everywhere and anywhere that I can.

only by complaining, and whining, and asking, and cajoling, are we ever going to get it.

please UBI? pretty please?

[woodstock74]

I think if done right, a cold war simulation could be very interesting. Having served on a nuke sub and taken part in TREs (simulating full-out Naval engagements), I found the real-life experience quite engaging!

There are obvious differences between modern nuke and WWII diesel subs. Shooting tends to be a lot easier. Computers pretty much make torpedo launches a point-n-click operation. Torpedo yields make it pretty easy to sink something. Torpedoes can also be fired from further away.

The challenge arises in avoiding detection, surviving enemy homing torpedoes, dealing with tricky things like nuclear reactors, etc.

One big difference is that the role of the submarine is a bit different. To sink a ship in the modern world, a harpoon missile launched from ship or aircraft is the quickest and easiest way. Subs are now more interested in other subs, as well as well as watching enemy fleets undetected, inserting special forces, etc.

All that said, if the right sense of immersion could be provided (and I've yet to play a 688 simulator that does a good job at this), it could be a lot of fun. However, I do know what you are all saying - the more automated and technologically-advanced something becomes, usually the less "fun" it is. For example, modern aircraft engagements (shoot before you see the enemy and let the missile do all the work) just don't play out like a good, old-fashioned dogfight in a bi-plane over WWI Europe... The same can be said for Naval engagements.. I say all this regarding computer games, not the real thing (there is nothing "fun" about real war).

I agree, it could be very intersting. Set in a late 70s, early 80s time period, and then you have many many sub possibilities to choose from (from diesel subs [both sides, don't forget the Barbell class!] and 3rd generation Nukes).

[Redux626]

In my Opinion they need to Switch over to something like SUB HUNTER or something like SH. I wanna control a DD or a BB with the same interactivity as SH

[retroflow]

It would be simple to have a new version of the game where you pick a country, a side to "fight" for and you get whatever is available to that country. Plenty of RTS games use this almost traditionally. It's really a question as to whether or not Ubisoft wants to do anything like this. They seem focused mainly on Console games than PC.

Erm.. what exactly is Ubisoft's interaction or involvment with the Modders and players here? Some think they watch here but, does anyone know for sure? Just something I'm thinking about.

Firaxis games commisioned Modders of Sid Meyer's Civilization III prior to releasing subsequent expansion packs. They also did a lot of direct chatting with the players for feedback and what have you. I'm just curious as to whether or not Ubisoft has ever done anything like that here. For a site that promotes their games so well, you'd think they'd have more presence. This is a very large fan and customer base.

And for the record, I think the modders here have done an excellent job. All of you.

[TDK1044]

I think the Add On to SH4 shows you the direction that Ubisoft are heading in. I would expect the next offering to either be set in the cold war era, or a fictitious modern day naval warfare game.

[tonibamestre]

Why not just do like people from Fighter Ops project? Develop further releases and addons,upgrading at the same time the engine and software parallel to new hardware. This way we could have improved SH....X year by year,with better sceneries,efects,and implementing new controllable units packs and systems-weapons technology till reach our days.

Come on Ubi,give us that Sturgeon,Foxtrot,FFG7 or Gearing bridges !! And more to come!

Make your fans happy

[retroflow]

Why not just do like people from Fighter Ops project? Develop further releases and addons,upgrading at the same time the engine and software parallel to new hardware. This way we could have improved SH....X year by year,with better sceneries,efects,and implementing new controllable units packs and systems-weapons technology till reach our days.

Come on Ubi,give us that Sturgeon,Foxtrot,FFG7 or Gearing bridges !! And more to come!

Make your fans happy

Exactly. Like EA's The Sims2 does it, for example. You start with the base game and add any of the available expansion packs to improve upon it. But, like the Sims2, you get more from the game if you use all ofthe expansion packs together. Clever marketing and oh, so lucrative. Keeps the fans hungry and buying expansions.

[vindex]

Regardless of the scenario, I'd like to see more attention paid to crew interaction and immersion issues in SH5.

Look at any sub movie and the main themes will be morale, command, and how men packed in a tin can deal with pressure and fatigue. Although many aspect of SH4 are great, you don't really get the sense of the human dimension of sub warfare. "Morale" supposedly exists for each crew member, but I've never seen anything happen to it, always "normal." The only real effect of fatigue that I have seen is the length of time needed to reload the torpedo tubes. The crew have stats, but no personality, not even your officers.

I'm not saying it should play out like a RPG, but utilize some elements from that genre might take SH to an entirely new level. Having to gauge how your officers and crew will respond to a decision, how it will affect their performance or atttitude towards you, would be both realistic and entertaining.

-----------------

On a completely different note, what I would like to see is a Hornblower-style Napoleonic sailing ship sim with technical detail and mission structure along the lines of the SH series. Patrol coasts, capture prizes, conduct special missions -- all while mastering an entirely different set of tactics based on wind and weather. Storms would be more than just eye-candy, set your sails or rudder wrong and you might not survive them. Just a thought ...

[MaciejK]

If SH5 is to surface I'd like it to go along a path similar to that of Il-2 series or the Fighter Ops mentioned. So build on it new campaigns, theatres, subs, features. I would dearly love to have a next SH title have British submarines as well, and any other that saw at least some action during the WWII.

I don't feel like going for the Cold War period wouuld be a good idea - as it was mentioned - not enough data. And I do not like hypothetical conflicts so we could hunt for Allied convoys in a Russian nuke sub.

Maybe it would be really better to stay in the field we(and the devs, I suppose) know much about and improve it even further in terms of graphics, physics engine, features, realism, functionality. Like controlling each propeller individually, etc.

Mac

[imbiginjapan]

Regardless of the scenario, I'd like to see more attention paid to crew interaction and immersion issues in SH5.

Look at any sub movie and the main themes will be morale, command, and how men packed in a tin can deal with pressure and fatigue. Although many aspect of SH4 are great, you don't really get the sense of the human dimension of sub warfare. "Morale" supposedly exists for each crew member, but I've never seen anything happen to it, always "normal." The only real effect of fatigue that I have seen is the length of time needed to reload the torpedo tubes. The crew have stats, but no personality, not even your officers.

I'm not saying it should play out like a RPG, but utilize some elements from that genre might take SH to an entirely new level. Having to gauge how your officers and crew will respond to a decision, how it will affect their performance or atttitude towards you, would be both realistic and entertaining.




Agreed! This is my main beef with the current game system. It's as if I'm commanding a crew of robots. Where's the part where the Chief finally cracks after one too many DC attacks?

[bb-subs]

I agree what is needed is a new ship fighting game. Fighting Steel type with this kind of graphics and better modeled ships, damage and so on.

In my Opinion they need to Switch over to something like SUB HUNTER or something like SH. I wanna control a DD or a BB with the same interactivity as SH

Grant

[scrag]

I think there is still work left for WWII Sub games:
Incorporate both theaters all platforms or as previously suggested a Sims style add on to a basic concept.
1) Make the graphics better (there is almost no light at 100 plus meters - 400 feet eliminate it - make it feel like you are deep
2) Make the A/C more reasonable - now they do 9 G verticle climbs - looks clownish - no where is a U Boat caught on the surface by a night patrol and illuminated by a Search Light too bad. Not manning AA guns cause rough sea more BS.
3) Fix the OOB only 2 Yamato class BB's completed as BB's - interactions with IJN major combatants was not that frequent.
4) Make the sound more immersive i.e. when a DD is ping away in your rear quarter and making a run you SHOULD hear the effect from your speakers (if you have a 5.1 or 7.1 system) as the DD runs you over so should the sound.
5) If a moduled based than have a large scale option (i.e. you can move boats around and make deployment issues.
6) How cool would it be to make a landing and blow up a train or do an unusual barrage of missles on to a land target.
7) Make building blow up - US Boats shelled a number of shore installations as did the Japanese - now if you fire on something it is pointless.
8) Graphics Graphics Graphics - man there is some quality stuff out there by modders - great stuff already inplace - comenstae them and use it.
There is more but you get my drift.
Regarding Cold War - previous arguement stands - not enough data too much BS regarding Weapons, Sensors and reasonable capabilities (anyone really thought about why the US never built numbers in the submarine department quickly understands that they ruled the USW environment and quickly added advanced capabilities to force the Russians into the mindset of trading at least 1 for 1 SSN wise and caused the US NOT to have a follow on SSBN because of the superiority of the current class).
Stick with the WWII Genure - you have a good sound game plan SH series is the most successful Sub game series why? The formula works so far. You have not seen a long series of modern subsims why? because generally they suck (land attack SS-N-27, ASW SS-N-27

Man the BS Life Boat

[Baywing]

There are lots of areas to expand sims into, but the bottom line, is just that, the bottom line. If someone makes it, will they come?

[u.Prestige]

I expect SH5 to be WW2 style Dangerous Waters:rock:
Campaign for both U-boats and USA submarines....
Single/Multiplayer missions for subs and escort DD/DE/Frigates:hmm:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

It would probably be a much simpler game to make seeing as the only detection methods were eyes. No sonar until later in the war. No TDC, and very dumb torpedoes. Primative boats, and just about as primative surface vessles.

Your idea was a good one, but I think that quote is one of the reasons it wont be made. Ubi tends to try and appeal to the casual gamer aswell as the sub fanatic. The casual gamer needs all the help the game can provide, because they just want to blow stuff up and win.

I wouldnt mind trying it out, and I especially love your idea of the boat buggering up, but I think WW1 boats in that much detail really wont appeal to the entire gaming market as SH3 and SH4 have.

Just my 2p. :up:

[yamato9]

Hi fellas!

It whoud be nice when next Silent Hunter (SH5) whoud have playable german, american and british submarines in game. Also it whoud be exellent to be able to control fleet formations and large units (battleships, heavy cruisers) like Bismarck, Nelson, Iowa, Yamato, Prinz Eugen, Mogami.
So that you can be in control of one flag ship but you can send radio and flag signals to other ships in formation, something like Great naval Battles, (or if you remember game DREADNOUGHTS from AMIGA) but with much better grafic and realism.

It is very strange why somebody did not produce some surface battle simulator (silent Hunter with battleships) they produced PT boats, they produced Destroyer Command but simulation with capital units....they forgot.:damn:

[cgjimeneza]

I'd like a WWI sub sim, too, along with a new WWI aircombat sim that would be at least the same caliber as Red Baron 3D. I haven't been able to fly an S.E.5 in years.:cry:

Ja, does anyone remember the old WINGS for the amiga 500 with the diary, infantry straffing, ballon busting and air combat?:sunny:

[LeeVanSpliff]

If SH5 should show up and turn out to be either cold war or alternative history stuff I'm definitely not buying it. I find the cold war damn boring from the soldier's point of view ("YOU THERE! Watch this radar monitor for 40 years. If nothing happens you've won!").

I'm not a big fan of alternative history either. I believe the reason that almost every damn sci-fi movie or series rips of a historical period is that reality simply kicks the ass of imagination over and over.

A 1914 Silent Hunter submarine simulation or a new Atlantic campaign game I'd buy in a heartbeat though. I would love to know more about wwi submarines and I'm simply a sucker for German subs in 39-45: the challenge curve going from the "happy times" to the '45 situation with the allies in complete control of the skies as well as the seas works so well for a computer game.

[Arclight]

Some of this has been mentioned already, but I'll chip in;

First of all, SH should stick with subs. Concentrating on a specific sector IMO improves the detail and emersion. Spreading the resources to make something like Dangerous Waters out of it wouldn't do it any good.

A new (fictious) setting would be nice. I'd prefer the (late) WWII technology, since I find that the most interesting. Maybe a new spin on the dynamic campaign?: Randomly generated or user definable coalitions, 2 or more. User can join any at start, maybe defections mid-war? Available boats depend on which countries are in specific coalition. Policies for coalitions can be set or randomized. For example, 2 could be at war at start, with 2 more neutral. 1 decides to join in mid-war, with the other remaining neutral till almost the end of the war. Heck, coalitions could even splinter with half the former allies suddenly turning on their former comrades or just fight their own war. It would keep the T.O. dynamic. Formerly safe waters could turn hostile in a heartbeat. Player controlled and AI ships accidentaly or "accidentaly" sinking neutral or friendly shipping could have an effect on that nations policy, causing them to leave their coalition or defect.

Now we're fighting a war with an outcome thats already set in stone. Feels a bit static to me. Either go out and hunt Japs, or go out and hunt the Allies.

To keep playability for everyone high, players should probably have no say in politics, although it could be possible for skippers with a high standing / renown ("war hero" status) to chip in in the decision making.

I also think the game should be more hardcore sim, players who don't wish to play like that still have the realism options to tweak the game to suit their style. A problem with this setting would be it doesn't follow history. Reliving historical battles that actually took place is something that drew me to SH in the first place (although besides the single missions I don't see much of that yet, short of modding the crap out of it). An option would be to include campaign "presets" to model it to historical accurate coalitions, like Axis vs. Alies.

With such a dynamic setting, it would be "easy" to mod it to Cold War; "just" add some new, more modern ships to reflect technology of that era and use the already present option to form corresponding coaltions. An addon wouldn't have to be more than that; some new models, a "preset" file to set up the adversaries, and perhaps some files that add in historical battles. It could go on for ever.

[Sailor Steve]

("YOU THERE! Watch this radar monitor for 40 years. If nothing happens you've won!").
:rotfl:

Excellent description!

[Doolan]

I'll take WWI over Cold War any day, but I'd rather have Destroyer Command 2 than both of those.

My arguments in favor of a WWI focus are that everything will be even more "artistic" (with less instruments to rely on) but there will still be plenty to sink, more than in SH3 or SH4 from 1917. A Cold War sim would be a glorified chess game with a nice atmosphere, but I can't see it having the entertainment potential of unrestricted submarine warfare.

As for a DC2, it's something even SH4 would benefit from, and it's long overdue. We're already four titles into the submarine franchise and the second surface game hasn't even been suggested.

[Seminole]

I would cheerfully purchase an updated German U-Boat WWII sim. :yep:


I wouldn't complain about a Japanese WWII subsim either.

A WWI U-Boat...I would buy it.


A duke nuke em cold war sim???...what would be the point????...:shifty:...I just float around detering the commies? :nope: I just can't visualize this PC world allowing me to unleash total plutonium hellfire upon Moscow. :ping:

[steinbeck]

Ah, a man after me old heart. A WWI combat flight sim is what I'm looking for and a good quality one with great gameplay and graphics.:up: I'd like to play a WWI sub sim also. Although I'd rather play those gunboats disguised as merchants. Imagine the look on a German captain's face when the sides of the boat comes down to reveal a plethora of guns aiming at you.:yep:


Flyboys Squadron

Released: March 18, 2008
Fly the Legend: Flyboys Squadron... Join the brave knights of the skies in this World War I flight combat simulation, developed by Interactive Magic. Fast, fun and furious action takes you to the skies above no man’s land in the first air war in history, where you’ll exchange machine gun fire with enemy pilots in desperate turning dogfights. A twelve mission campaign will take you through the immersive single player storyline and prepare you for the next step – online play.
Genre: Simulation | Timeline: World War I | Buy Now (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/354/store/Flyboys.Squadron) | More info... (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/354/details/Flyboys.Squadron)



steinbeck..........:D

[gimpy117]

WWI...
I would love it It's a totally untapped era in submarines and the only thing they really havn't covered yet...

[the_belgian]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1835/wmplayer200806291228064kj9.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/553/wmplayer200806291229009hx6.png (http://imageshack.us)

:hmm:

[cgjimeneza]

[quote=
Gosh, just to go for a ride with Taffy 3.

...hold breath starting now......[/quote]

yes I imagine hearing this on my TBS:

SMALL BOYS. SMALL BOYS ON MY STARBOARD QUARTER INTERPOSE WITH SMOKE BETWEEN MEN AND ENEMY CRUISERS

[ECAaxel]

eliminate those stupid 9g dives by intergrating the multiplayer to make it compatible with IL2 (of course IL2 will have to be changed too)
then we will be able to bomb you with more realism
(waiting to get flacked by anyone who hates the Luftwaffe)

[steinbeck]

[quote=Ducimus]I have an alternate idea for a Sh5. Personnally, i think it should depart from historical events while maintaining some semblance of historical technical detail, and take place in a Post ww2, pre nuke boat, fictious cold war scenario.

My reasons are many:

- WW1 might not have enough cool toys to play with like homing torpedos, radar, or RWR.

- The whole WW2 axis vs allies thing is overdone. Some folks are die hard atlantic, others die hard pacific, i think its time to step away from both theaters.

- Cold war scenario has never been done as far as i know.


Love this idea! and possibly, if we posit X nations are war, what the sub war does actually has a positive effect on the war which can be seen/Known by us, the submariner. Sinkng a troop carrier has an effect on a invasion etc! This would also make for some imperatives within the game. 'MUST sink that troopship'

steinbeck...:hmm:

[Mickle]

I'd cast a vote for DC2
or
WW1
:)

[FIREWALL]

Ah, a man after me old heart. A WWI combat flight sim is what I'm looking for and a good quality one with great gameplay and graphics.:up: I'd like to play a WWI sub sim also. Although I'd rather play those gunboats disguised as merchants. Imagine the look on a German captain's face when the sides of the boat comes down to reveal a plethora of guns aiming at you.:yep:


Flyboys Squadron

Released: March 18, 2008
Fly the Legend: Flyboys Squadron... Join the brave knights of the skies in this World War I flight combat simulation, developed by Interactive Magic. Fast, fun and furious action takes you to the skies above no man’s land in the first air war in history, where you’ll exchange machine gun fire with enemy pilots in desperate turning dogfights. A twelve mission campaign will take you through the immersive single player storyline and prepare you for the next step – online play.
Genre: Simulation | Timeline: World War I | Buy Now (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/354/store/Flyboys.Squadron) | More info... (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/354/details/Flyboys.Squadron)



steinbeck..........:D

Unfortunately it IMHO has the Graphics of SHII

[FIREWALL]

I'd cast a vote for DC2
or
WW1
:)

DC2 :up: :up: :up: With U-BOATS in Atlantic Combined. :yep:

Be a Destroyer Capt. or a Uboat Kpt.

Now that would have Gameplay Value.

[ECAaxel]

I'd cast a vote for DC2
or
WW1
:)
DC2 :up: :up: :up: With U-BOATS in Atlantic Combined. :yep:

Be a Destroyer Capt. or a Uboat Kpt.

Now that would have Gameplay Value.
may aswell insert virtual sailor into that equation to be able to control the merchants being shot at
(probably not possible though :( )

[Mickle]

well we have the small oil tanker already :)

[gimpy117]

well we have the small oil tanker already :)

SH5

Tankers of the pacific

[Captain Vlad]

I, in all honesty, love the idea of a 'Destroyer Command 2', but I do have to wonder just how engaging it would be. One of the better things about submarine simulations is your ability to roam freely, searching out targets and evading the enemy. I don't see that happening with destroyers. You would have assignments, not patrols.

Still, if they made some effort to make the campaign more 'sub style' in certain fashions (IE: not just scenarios aping real life events, but more of the whole 'go here and do this type of thing) it could work.

WWI is a neat idea, especially given some of the possible visuals (zeppelins, sailing ships, thick coal smoke, etc), and I'd probably enjoy it, but it doesn't tickle the fancy the way the Cold War scenario does...at least if you use Ducimus' idea for limiting the time period to the '50's and '60's.

That era of submarine warfare has never, to my knowledge, been simulated, and the possibilities...skulking around Cuba in your GUPPY conversion!...are quite extensive. People keep talking about how boring it would be, but I, personally, have no problem with a little alternative history. It's been well-executed in games before, and there are all kinds of 'what-ifs' possible with a Cold War scenario, and many of them don't even involve a general WWIII kind of thing.

One thing I would like to see is, as someone else mentioned, your actions having an effect on the overall war. Anyone remember MiG Alley's campaign, where your efforts against the Communist supply lines could have a direct result on the battles taking place on the front? This would be especially fun in small-scale campaigns, where catching the right boatload of Spetsnaz or the right USMC detachment embarked in their transport could have very serious consequences.

[Sailor Steve]

well we have the small oil tanker already :)

SH5

Tankers of the pacific

:rotfl:

"Jump into an exciting career sailing back and forth across the ocean. Nothing else, just sailing back and forth across the wide Pacific, hoping that nothing bad happens, and knowing that if it does you're royally screwed, and there's not a single blessed thing you can do about it."

Coming soon:

SH5 - Atlantic Missions

"More of the same, except colder and more deadly."

No, wait, that will start arguments about which is the better theater to be alternately bored and terrified in.:dead:

[supersloth]

maybe 4-5 years into the future, remake the atlantic uboat war. this time with real wolfpacks, communications with BDU, coordinated activities with other vessels, etc. then have a fully modeled crew where each member has its own ai and walks around the sub. fully modeled and interactive interior. then throw in some rpg elements like having to keep the ship supplied with water and food and do some human ai interaction. manual navigation will have to be done through the stars. basically a true hardcore simulation with the latest and greatest in ai and graphics technology.

will it happen, probably not, but it would be cool.

[Extra Ketchup]

There are two things I would really love:

1) A completely accessible boat. I'd almost rather have one fully accessible boat vs. dozens of boats that are limited to only certain rooms. It would be really cool if they set the interior up like a first-person shooter, except there is no need to "shoot". However, to be able to walk around (not just float) and manipulate controls - that would be awesome! I'd love to go to the engine room, watch the diesels in action, go to the torpedo room and watch the men loading the torpedoes, etc. Can you imagine that? If there is flooding, let's run down to that compartment and watch it fill with water! Let's dog the hatches! I think such a game would feel very different than the current game since it focuses on actuallying being in the submarine, vs. focusing on mainly the periscope and charts.

2) I'd love to see the graphics include self-shadow. I've seen other simulations and games that use this, and I think it is the one area in the graphics engine that is lacking. When parts of the boat (like the deck gun) cast a moving shadow on other parts of the boat, it is about as realistic as it gets visually (using the currently superb textures and models). Trust me, once you have seen self-shadow in action (take a look at the jets in LockOn), you'll know what a difference it makes!

- Mike

[Takeda Shingen]

SH5

Tankers of the pacific


Sampan Commader

[denis_469]

I think, that UBI need contakt with russian moder and finished WWII in soviet submarines as SH V with large different in engine (all compartments for example). It was have commersial success and not long time for mading. Soviet subs sunk and damage during WWII more then 800 000 tons. And in Western countries near unknow about soviet submarine war.

[Rosencrantz]

How about SH5 Squadron (or Division) Commander?
Really, I think UBI has already given a hint what might be coming in the future. (SHIV 1.5 with recon planes + other stuff)
I don't know how the AI units has worked in the 1.5, haven't tried it yet even I have bought it, but I still believe a wolfpack could be an event. Even in the German/Atlantic sim - no matter if in the real world the pack actions were lead from the shore. When thinking that you could be in charge of a small flotilla/division of maybe 4 - 8 boats, I found many positive things from it.

1. First of all, it would reduce the fealing you are fighting alone. Especially if you could choose also the crew for the AI boats when in the base, then you might be able to find yourself more familiar with "other crews", captains and so on, bit by a bit. And if there is a new, unexperienced captain coming to your squadron, you might be willing to lend him your own experienced exec for awhile, just that you could be sure new captain's morale stays high...
2. More immersion if you could actually plan some small scale operations of few boats and maybe even a recon planes, supply vessels and so on.
3. The basic concept is allready here, in the SHIII and IV - no need to use valuable resources to study something totally new or need to create a totally new scenario.
4. Writing a new, good scenario is anything else but easy. Even I like DW, I don't like the sim's stock scenario. And even if the Cold War is nice idea, the war was still Cold... And SHIV is still far away fm DW if talking sonar model for example. Yes, WWII sonars were simple, but not that simple. It's very likely the Sturgeon-class SSN made in SH style would be a BIG dissapointment for most of us. To be not, UBI should really put both time and money for development...

-RC-

[UrPeaceKeeper]

I personally would like to see a universal game that encompasses everything naval combat in WWII. Like I'm talking literally Pacific and Atlantic operations for U-Boats, Fleet Boats, Japanese Subs, Russian Subs, Itallian, British, what have you. Take every nation that had a notable submarine force and put it into the game as a playable faction with it's own "career path". On top of this add the crew interactions and fully animated ship.

I also wouldnt mind seeing on top of this game the addition of the control of surface ships for those of us who dont mind playing either side of the surface of the ocean :) Again with the same features as the above and factions it could be intresting to start off as a destroyer patrolling friendly waters and working your way up to the commander of a full fledged task force as the head of a battleship or aircraft carrier. Of course I'd want the ability to magically transport myself from one ship to another and walk around on the decks and into the turrets and to the bridge and engine rooms etc etc etc just because it'd be sweet.

Originally I had an idea for an MMOish styled version of SH using some of the ideas from above but putting time compression into a MP game is rediculously hard to impliment especially considering it would mean people would arrive at different times to certain areas and on top of that "time" would be come static as the dates wouldnt really change. It would be too hard to do that.

I dont think a Cold Warish mod would be a bad idea but it would be hard to make intresting to the majority of people. I think it would be hard to pass onto the hardcore sub simmers.

I agree with the visual improvements though. I wouldnt mind seeing something more realistic as far as the floor of the seas and how ports are layed out, etc. I guess what I hope for is largely impossible in one game, it would be too big and too expensive to impliment correctly.... here is to wishing! :()1:

[Philipp_Thomsen]

maybe 4-5 years into the future, remake the atlantic uboat war. this time with real wolfpacks, communications with BDU, coordinated activities with other vessels, etc. then have a fully modeled crew where each member has its own ai and walks around the sub. fully modeled and interactive interior. then throw in some rpg elements like having to keep the ship supplied with water and food and do some human ai interaction. manual navigation will have to be done through the stars. basically a true hardcore simulation with the latest and greatest in ai and graphics technology.

will it happen, probably not, but it would be cool.

Best idea so far! :up:

[Demonizer]

Yeh i agree on that is well. I dont think they need to move away from the WWII era.

My points and suggestions for the next SH are:

American Submarines
U-Boat Submarines
Ability to walk alround the submarine inside and have every compartment accesible and have a fully interactive crew and submarine. With crew moving about and doing their jobs.
More Releastic Weather - Lightning should light up the area when on bridge.
How about adding things inside the submarine like cups,dishs,boxes,and stuff and give them physics that way when your inside the submarine moving about and the sub is moving with the waves things inside will also move about rolling about and stuff.
Better land geometry and ports.
Underwater life forms - Fish, Dolphins, Whales, Sharks..

Larger players online - if anyones played test drive unlimited they know what i mean. It allows hundreds of players to be on the same server roaming freely and interacting with one another. You can add in player support for destoryers. Imagine being hunted by a destoryer with a human player depth charging your ass and so on, it will totally change the perspective of being hunted. Or maybe just go overkill and have support for aircraft and other surface ships. You could have it so you start off with a destoryer or something and the more experience you gain online the more ships you can have like battleships etc. Although its kinda moving away from the submarine warfare it would appeal to such a larger playerbase that the latter ie massive multiplayer playerbase would gain from this. I think it would be pretty exciting to torpedo someone whos in a battleship only to have his human buddies come get you with their destoryers.

:hmm:

[skookum]

Why not engineer a realtime theater populated with mixed AI and human players? Players could log in and assume command of an AI unit that is close to enemy action, execute an attack and then log off to let the AI take over again and continue the partol unaided. AI units could organize into wolf packs on their own or any number of real players could do so too. Concievably one could comand multiple U-Boat patrols and switch between them as they encounter the enemy. This certainly solves the yawn factor between encounters. Engineer a command and communication system that makes wolf packs both necessary and satisfying. Also AI would have to be smart enough with which to trust a lengthy career between game sessions.

I think having a simple frigate model one could command would up the player competition factor too. Though zig zagging back and forth in open sea depleting your depth charges might get boring after a while.

Hell, why not turn the game into a FPS and allow armed boarding parties? Model communications and negotiations with other ships via radio, semaphore or even light signals. After the skipper determines the intentions of the other vessel give him the choice of torpedoing it or risking a possible ambush while the crew inspects the cargo. How cool would it be to pick off enemy crewmembers from the deck of your submarine while your boarding party (even you) fight their way back to the boote to escape the melee?

Certainly animated crewmembers and realistic celestial navigation would be awesome and add much depth and realism. I'd also like to have more choice about loading out the submarine's weaponry and supplies. Let food choices and the cook's experience affect crew morale. Let the mechanical ability of your engineer and the availibility of spare parts determine the frequency and severity of equipment failures. Let your navigator's experience affect the accuracy of his position fixes. Hell, let your planesman's experience affect his depth keeping ability. One could trade torpedos for food or crew for longer patrols.

I think incorporporating elements like these are necessary if UBI expects to raise the bar on the WW2 naval warfare genre yet again. The same old GFX upgrades get boring after a while. Of course everyone expects the game to look good, it's depth and realism that move units off the shelves and keep gamers playing. (Think GTA series).

One thing is for sure though, I want to look though my periscope and see the skipper on the open bridge of his river class frigate staring back at me through his binoculars as I give the order to "Fire!"

[Orion2012]

if anyones played test drive unlimited they know what i mean.

:rock:

If you enjoy HARDCORE racing sims, G2 is probably the best...and all those pretty test drive unlimited models were ported over to replace there cureent versions although no cars that weren't in the game previously (2 or 3 of 140)...with those beautiful interiors...

And back to topic....

I'd like to see more action the the deck of the enemy boats and the merchants...nothing would make me happier to watch them lowering their lifeboat just as torpedo hits home and throws them and the lifeboat on in...just not together. Also, I'd like to see them swim towards me and beg to be taken hostage, so I can order my flak gunner to open fire, all Das Boot like...

[Takeda Shingen]

Also, I'd like to see them swim towards me and beg to be taken hostage, so I can order my flak gunner to open fire, all Das Boot like...

I must have missed that part of the film.

[FIREWALL]

SH-5 Will be released to compete with GWX4.:p

[Sailor Steve]

You can add in player support for destoryers. Imagine being hunted by a destoryer with a human player depth charging your ass and so on, it will totally change the perspective of being hunted.
Don't have to imagine it. I was around for SH2 and Destroyer command.

Some of the suggestions I'm reading would be nice, but I think will require a whole new generation of computers to implement. Still, I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

[skookum]

Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe. Now there's a game I haven't heard in a while. That was one hell of a game.

I like the idea of modelling flooding inside the submarine. The planesmen couldn't do their jobs without drowning after about 3 feet of flooding in the command room, so there goes depth control. At the risk of being morbid, why not have bodies floating around? Or model hull damage (dents and bending) from both inside and outside the boat.

[opp31337]

Kaiser Wilhelm didn't want european land, he wanted frances colonies and the right to have a fleet which britain was denying them

[skookum]

I want to surface, follow my crewmates up the ladder, open the conning tower hatch myself and climb out seamlessly into open salty sea air. Same thing for manning the deck gun. Let's see someone passing shells through the hatch to the deck crew as they reload. Perhaps the boat might flood if I forget to close the hatch on the way down. This stuff is well within what is possible in todays FPSs. Why not in SH5 (budgets aside of course)? Hell, engineer the game for console play too. I'd play it on a 60" 1080p plasma. Hell, I'd probably buy the screen just to play that game.

[Kloef]

I used to play Red Storm Rising(yes i'm old:lol: )and i still treasure that game,it's still on the shelve in mint condition,and so is Silent Service,the mother of SH2/3/4 and i allways found the Cold War subs more interesting than the WOII pacific scenario portrayed in SS.Both games came out roughly at the same time,in fact it started my interest in submarines,but thats me.

But i'm using the simulator more as an expansion of the things i can read and watch about subs,others may just use it to play a game,or think u-boats are 'kewl'..or share the same level of interest.Thats for everybody to decide for themselve.

Maybe others want to stick to WWII,or go to WOI,well i say why not all of it?Including a Cold War scenario like the one in Red Stom Rising,the story is very interesting and exciting..enough to build into a game/simulator,the spirit of Submarines and their crews has not changed over time,so a timeshift is not affecting the exciting experience,Red Storm Rising was nothing more than just some panels and impact animations,but the level of information gathering and building a tactical picture is way more complex then in WOII/WOI,and it also includes sub to sub warfare,a new world for people having only played the SH2/3/4 series of games..

Modern day pc's are more than capable of doing the job,it would increase the data enormously but is there still anybody out there with a 5 GB harddisk?

And to top it all off an online mode with a dynamic scenario,so you may be winning the war today and when you come back the next you are on the losing side and you or your Wolfpack with other players can make the difference.

So SH5 would contain,apart from sublime crew/submarine animation and management,interactive communication with Sub Command,entrance to every part of the boat,and dynamic weather downloads of the actual date,and more goodies:

1)A German U-boat/British Submarine campaign set from 1914-18.
2)A German U-boat/British/U.S Submarine campaign set from 1939-45.
3)A NATO/USSR Submarine campaign(including boomers,very sweet targets trust me:up: )campaign set from 1980-2000 based on a fictional scenario...

For people like me that would be a total loss of social contact untill the end of time,but i'm willing to take the risk:rotfl:

[ECAaxel]

Larger players online - if anyones played test drive unlimited they know what i mean. It allows hundreds of players to be on the same server roaming freely and interacting with one another. You can add in player support for destoryers. Imagine being hunted by a destoryer with a human player depth charging your ass and so on, it will totally change the perspective of being hunted. Or maybe just go overkill and have support for aircraft and other surface ships. You could have it so you start off with a destoryer or something and the more experience you gain online the more ships you can have like battleships etc. Although its kinda moving away from the submarine warfare it would appeal to such a larger playerbase that the latter ie massive multiplayer playerbase would gain from this. I think it would be pretty exciting to torpedo someone whos in a battleship only to have his human buddies come get you with their destoryers.

:hmm:
how about the FSX trick of shared ships you could have the skipper the WO and the Watch Officer perhaps one on sonar.
You could have that with destroyers also.
Wouldn't mind multiplayer combatibilty with IL2 for more real aircraft attacks something to be really/ less scared of something that won't go into a 9g pull up
also wouldn't mind the option to tell me planesmen the exact angle for the planes rather than dive to [depth]