View Full Version : shakespeare specialist wanted
Hi
I'm looking for someone(english lit.teacher or whatever)who could give me some tips when it comes to shakespear's plays.Please PM me or e-mail( p_kranz@wp.pl ) THX
Stealth Hunter
01-04-08, 02:22 AM
Have a good sense of language usage for the time period...
Many people today would have difficulty understanding if what he just said to you was intended as an insult or as a compliment of wit.
Just for good measure, my favorite Shakespeare quote:
"This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day."
-King Henry V, William Shakespeare's King Henry V (1598)
EDIT:
Kenneth Branagh's flawless version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvmLDkAgAM
geez! You demand almost impossible.Today we were discusing Henry V, first question-when did he rule ?Silence.Which century?Silence.One of my class-mates:"16th century".As you see our knowledge is a bit behind.But I assume that you are the expert so I will PM you soon.
Rotary Crewman
01-04-08, 06:04 AM
Stealth, sorry to hijack this thread but I was wondering which Shakespeare work you recommend as a bit of a 'starter'. As an English person I think its disgusting I have only read the Shakespeare works I 'had' to read at school (Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth) and I feel I should read more.
So, any recommendations?
One of the great things about old Bill's work is that since it is out of copyright, you can get a 'complete works' for just a few quid. I did this and read it cover to cover some years ago, simply because I think if you like English it's a bit of a must, although much of it is not an easy read, it being set up in the format for directing a play much of the time and littered with obscure words that have fallen out of use, so I would recommend getting something like this too:
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Companion-Shakespeare-Companions-Literature/dp/0521658810/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199446430&sr=1-1
There are plenty of books around like this one, so I would try and find one that is currently 'in favour' so to speak, if you are intending to use the knowledge for academic exams, as much of English Literature exams centres on interpretations that are in vogue with the matriciulation people at the time. However, if you are just reading it for enjoyment, then you can simply pick up a book like that which will help explain the language and idioms.
As for the first one to read, I would personally recommend King Lear, for the simple reason that the plot (like quite a lot of WS works) is very simple, often laughably so in comparison to modern stuff, but of course you have to view them in the context of the time they were written as far as dramatic structure goes. Basically, King Lear centres on a misunderstanding, so one can concentrate on the dialogue without getting bogged down in the need for historical knowledge to understand the underlying themes, and of course King Lear is among the best you'll find in old Bill's stuff as far as dialogue goes. It also happens to have my all-time fave WS bit of dialogue in it, which, incidentally, is analysed here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=EXnmsqzpuykC&pg=RA1-PA227&lpg=RA1-PA227&dq=i+am+bound+upon+a+wheel+of+fire&source=web&ots=uhVMXBbY67&sig=GOLOF5Z6ZjZDYinfQCdQxEGU8rM#PPR15,M1
If you are more interested in warfare and have a decent knowledge of the many battles between England and France, the underlying Royal struggles and infighting, then Henry V is a good choice. If you prefer more 'cosmic' stuff with a moral theme, The Tempest would be a good first choice, but yo8u should note that there are many idioms in The Tempest which make some sort of explanatory accompanying book (or a search online) a bit of a must.
:D Chock
Tchocky
01-04-08, 06:56 AM
OP - Drop a PM with any questions, I'll have a go.
As for which play to start off with, MacBeth is great. It really gives you a look inside WS' head. James was crowned, and WS was without a patron, so he sucked up to James' lineage by writing a play in which one of the only honest people (Banquo) happens to be an ancestor of King James. The major concern of MacBeth is the awful consequences of interrupting the divine right of kings, roughly translated, "Please James, I'd like to keep my standard of living"
Duff old traditionalist that I am, Hamlet is my favourite of his, but there's some wonderful scenes in Lear, as Chock has pointed out. Lear has the most interesting production history, with temporal politics chopping and changing what theatres could show on stage. See one of my least favourite Irishmen, Nahum Tate, for what he did to Lear.
Agreed, WS is not easy to read at first. However, as your knowledge of the contexts and conflicts that surround the text, you'll get more out of every page.
Dangit, I want to go and see some Shakespeare now. Academic concerns have me reading George Bernard Shaw full-time, the only playwright to have his reputation suffer due to licensing laws. Ah, context ;)
A number of them are also available for free download at Project Gutenberg, although there'll probably not be any helpful notes with these!
http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65 (http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/s#a65)
great to see so many volunteers:up:
btw-I've PM-ed you Tchocky
King Lear is really excellent to start with.
The plot is certainly not simply about a misunderstanding, even if it is easy to misunderstand the plot! (The first time I saw the play performed it was a mess on my part.) The play brings a strong moral message and touches on the subject of knowledge and acknowledgement. My prefered reading of this play comes from Stanley Cavell and his essay "The Avoidance of Love: A Reading of King Lear", here he outlines an elegant, but not always easy, reading that really gives interesting answers to quite a few problems within the play, and what people thought were flaws in the plotwork of Shakespeare. The essay is in the overall nice collection, Disowning Knowledge. In seven plays of Shakespeare, which should interest anyone that have read one or two of the plays and is keen on a slightly different take on Shakespeare.
Cheers Porphy
The plot is certainly not simply about a misunderstanding, even if it is easy to misunderstand the plot!
I didn't say it was about a misunderstanding, I said it centres on a misunderstanding, i.e that's the pivotal point which events revolve around, this is a lot simpler to follow than the plays which centre on historical events.
:D Chock
Stealth, sorry to hijack this thread but I was wondering which Shakespeare work you recommend as a bit of a 'starter'. As an English person I think its disgusting I have only read the Shakespeare works I 'had' to read at school (Romeo and Juliet and Macbeth) and I feel I should read more.
So, any recommendations?
Don't read them.
Read a quick outline of the story if you find the language tough, and then see them.
Scripts ain't made to be read. ;)
If you can't afford to see them live, there are plenty of DVDs about from stage
proformances and very high quality TV/Film productions. The beeb did a great 12th
night.
I didn't say it was about a misunderstanding, I said it centres on a misunderstanding, i.e that's the pivotal point which events revolve around, this is a lot simpler to follow than the plays which centre on historical events.
I agree on the second part, that it centers on a pivotal point and most things in the play follows from that, and that makes it easier to untangle. But I still have a hard time to see that the play centers on a misunderstanding. What misunderstanding do you mean? Certainly not the abdication scene and Cordelia's refusing her fathers demand with silence?
I guess we are both picking on words here. ;) But to my mind a true tragedy like King Lear won't be revolving around a misunderstanding, a melodrama can, and comedy for sure will. Tragedies are marked by the fact that things happens invetiably, but the fate of the characters are not really dependent on some external event or any kind of mishap, or a misunderstanding. It is more like that they hold the key to salvation themselves, but refuse to see it or use it, even if it spells disaster, madness and death. (not uncommon themes in Shakespeare :)) But I do admit I'm very Cavellian on that point... :know:
Cheers Porphy
Rotary Crewman
01-05-08, 12:57 PM
Cheers Letum :up:
I like King Lear. And I've studied many of Will's plays. However, as far as calling myself an expert? I'm not Cordelia, I will not be there ;).
Cheers to base players everywhere :lol:.
Onkel Neal
01-05-08, 07:56 PM
geez! You demand almost impossible.Today we were discusing Henry V, first question-when did he rule ?Silence.Which century?Silence.One of my class-mates:"16th century".As you see our knowledge is a bit behind.But I assume that you are the expert so I will PM you soon.
Hey Kranz, you have a lot of interesting study ahead of you, mate. Enjoy! :yep:
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