Is it just me, or what? JN ASW skills:

[Patboot]

I think I can petition for the 100K club. Just ran out one patrol of 145,739 tons. 3 Fuso, 2 Takado, 1 Mogami, and a pesky merch Haruna that took one for the team.

This was in ONE task force, with (est) 12 DD's in a ring formation around it. It wasn't SIMPLE, mind you, just somewhat hard. The escorts were awake enough to make contact on me, but they seemed more eager to blow holes in the water that me. At one point I had 4 DD's in close, but they never seemed to figure it out. I got chased at least 6 times, with basic evasion I got away.

I even got snarky on the last pass- three got visual on me, I just did a "dive for 300, reverse course at 200, stay down there till they pass" and snuck back under them and took out the damaged Mog and the last Takedo.

Vanilla Install, for what it's worth.

[Torplexed]

You're good! :cool:

[donut]

Try RSRDC.:up: Report: Captain Patboot

[Mush Martin]

I think TriggerMaru is more likely to bring the challenge back for you.
try it out.
M

[Patboot]

Maybe I'm just used to more aggressive escorts from SH3?

[Ducimus]

No, the stock AI is indeed a bit retarded.

And as MM stated, yes the AI is ramped up a bit in the TM modpack.

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I concur with Donut. RSRDC made the escorts more aggressive I think. And they go by at 35knts. Try catching them with a submerged S-18 going 7knts. The only reason I didn't choose Trigger Maru was the fact that aircraft can see you submerged. Prior to adding in mods I found targets so easy to get and frankly got bored with the sim. Thanks to these mods the sim is much more challenging.:up:

[Rockin Robbins]

I am "attacking" a convoy of tankers escorted by 5 DD's. They charge my periscope at midnight from a mile away. Their attacks are laser guided: no lurking on the surface trying to retain initiative is possible here. I launched 3 cuties and after 10 minutes bagged one destroyer. It did not improve my situation.

I am the hunted here, they are the hunters. I have shot 4 cuties to bag one DD of five and don't have enough left to kill enough more to make the difference. Down the throat shots with Mark 23s have not worked as well as patch 1.3 and I missed with the one I wasted there. I'm thinking I am foolish for engaging in a fair fight when my goal is to sink merchies.

I am using Trigger Maru with RSRD and NSM. I think my frustration is not only very different from your experience, it is kinda realistic! Prior to RSRD it was very difficult to return from a cruise with less than 40,000 tons. Now I have 50 tons from one DD and a sub that's 5 torps light. Welcome to paradise!:arrgh!:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Stock is arcade, AI is easier plus there are a gazillion contacts. Try one of the larger mods and you will be singing a different tune.


RDP

[Sailor Steve]

Some have pointed out that Japanese ASW was much worse than Allied. In fact they had very little to use with a lot of their convoys. But you said this was a task force with 12 destroyers, and everyone is right: those DDs should be among the best the empire has to offer, and that you escaped at all should be considered very lucky. Try the mods.

[Patboot]

That was my point... Not to brag, but to wonder if the AI was suffering anemia.

I'll be looking at Mods in a bit- still gettin used to the different GUI here.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Stock is good to get you used to SH4, but as mentioned, try one of the mods to get the real experience. SH3 AI was just fair as well until mods, same as SH4 :yep:


RDP

[kylesplanet]

You'll also find that some of the stock AI are much better than others, it just depends on which you happen to get.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Correct KP, it did improve beginning with 1.3 :yep:


RDP

[kylesplanet]

Correct KP, it did improve beginning with 1.3 :yep:


RDP

Yeah after 1.3, sometimes you would get a real dummy then other times, you get a real ace. Of course those guys in TM, well, their just plain mean!:D

[tater]

In stock the convoy AI is all set to "stupid" and the TF AI is set to competent, veteran, or elite (more of the latter as the war goes on).

In addition, in stock there are a superabundance of Akizuki uber DDs.

[Ducimus]

. Of course those guys in TM, well, their just plain mean!:D

Well, i wouldn't want you to get bored. :lol:

In TM, AI crew rating comes in two flavors. Competent and veteran, with one elite being an exception. AI sensors were raised to a degree, where i simply couldnt allow elites populating the game world.

[BH]

I have come to the conclusion that the IJN were not that bad in ASW as some might say. The American submarine captains were that good that they made them look bad. As the war progress like tator mentioned, the japanese improved and started making kills 1943 onward. To little to late though. So TM though not intended to be is closer to reality. You have to use good evasion skills to survive. American submarine captains that engaged escorted convoys were attacked sometimes for hours, with in some cases the help of air units.

[tater]

As I've said in a few other posts, the failure of IJN ASW was at a higher level than the individual ASW platform. It was a failure of strategic vision, naval culture, etc. The primary failure was not start to convoy earlier and maximize the ASW capability they had.

tater

[Ducimus]

It was a failure of strategic vision, naval culture, etc.

If im not mistaken, it was the "battleship navy" and the "one decisive battle" mentality.

[tater]

Yeah, more importantly (for the ASW issue) it was totally focused on offensive capability. Culturally in the IJN ASW was "defensive." As a result it didn't attract officers, it got the dregs given to it.

[BH]

The question is was the IJN skills in ASW really that bad or were the U.S submarine captains well trained in evasion.

[cmdrk]

That was my point... Not to brag, but to wonder if the AI was suffering anemia.

I'll be looking at Mods in a bit- still gettin used to the different GUI here.

Just be aware the mods can change the key assignments and add additional command buttons on the bottom bar. So don't get too use to the vanilla, especially key assigments.

[tater]

I personally don't think their skills were bad, as I said, their ASW problem was a "big picture" issue for the most part. Individual ships were obviously capable, or we wouldn't have so many accounts of US boats held down for really long periods.

Some of their technologies were weak, particularly compared tothe allies later in the war, bnut I think their crew quality was overall pretty good.

[cmdrk]

They developed and used MAD gear to detect submarines. So they were ahead in one area.

According to Galantin's book about his time with Halibut, MAD gear about killed his boat. A nearby sub heard the attack and estimated 8 DC's went off in quick succession. It pushed the Halibut down another 100ft and dished in the hull. The boat was written off when they got back to base.

[TheSatyr]

Captain Hara (Of "Japanese Destroyer Captain" fame) seemed to be rather "iffy" when it came to ASW. When he commanded the Amatsukaze he may have sunk a Dutch boat,(One was lost near the time and place where he attacked it),he also was in one of those 2 DD groups that attacked the Perch,but he just did a few DC runs,lost contact and assumed the sub was sunk.

When he commanded the Shigure,a transport he was escorting was torpedoed and sunk and all he did was make a few DC runs where he "thought" the torps came from,then he went back to the transport to transfer the crew to his ship. He assumed his DC runs would scare off the sub.

Hara was a brilliant DD commander when it came to surface actions,but he was pretty lousy at ASW. It was just pure luck that he sank the Dutch sub. He claims to have personally spotted it on the surface at close range due to a crewman on the bridge of the sub smoking a cigarette. (Hara claims it was the glow from the cigarette that he saw first before actually seeing the sub). When the Amatsukaze turned towards the sub and went to full speed the sub dived,but it was so close that Hara was able to estimate where the sub was and dropped a shallow pattern of DCs that basically nailed the Dutch sub. The Amatsukaze dropped a second pattern of DCs,but by that time there was a large patch of fuel oil rising to the surface.

It does seem that alot of the Japanese ASW kills happened on the first DC run. The Harder being an example.