Point of new Silent Hunter

[silentrunner]

A large topic among sub sim gamers is that of the creation of a new Silent Hunter. But while SH4 was a good game it did not match up to the capabilities of SH3' what went wrong? I think that SH3 had an overall better engine tobegin with, amd with mods like GWX it is almost a totally different game from vanilla SH3. If Ubisoft created another game with the capabilities of GWx and SH3 they would most likely make alot of money. They would also risk creating another SH4 a game that tried to match up to the capabilities as SH3 but just didn't have as good of an overall design. I would like to get your thaughts about wether a new SH game should be made or if they should just keep upgrading SH3. Keep in mind that as the game is further upgraded more people are buying it so there sales are still going up.

[kenijaru]

great supermods will be released for SH4 too.... eventually :cool:
and when that happens it'll probably surpass SH3.

[CCIP]

Define "better" in this case.

I fail to see the point, especially since SHIV's engine is the same engine, only with improvements. SHIV, in my view, is a much better game and a much better engine out of the box than SHIII, and fixed many things that were amiss in SHIII.

There are only two reasons to prefer SHIII over SHIV: 1) the fact that SHIV's mod development cycle is still in an early stage while SHIII is close to peak; 2) it is not an Atlantic sim, and some just like the Atlantic.

Elsewhere, while SHIV may have produced a few new pet peeves for experienced SHIII players (like the crew not being as responsive when clicked on for example), objectively speaking it IS the development that was needed for the SHIII engine. Its only real fault is that it was released a few months early.

As for "upgrading SHIII" - two words - "dream on". We're lucky SHIV is getting treated with that U-boat expansion, even. Otehrwise you're more likely to see Ubi make a new Atlantic sim at this point than patch SHIII - if you want the money side of this, they'd much rather spend money on development of a new $60 game than on upgrading an old (from their point of view - long-obsolete) game that costs no more than $10 a pop now.

[Adriatico]

The optimal project could be much simplier than previously thought...If develpers team could reach a common ground with GWX team - it would take a couple of months to "inject" SHIV graphic engine (even improved one) into present accumulated achievements of WolfPack... Anyway, GWX 2.0 lacks only a modern graphics improvements expected in some 2008 simulation release... as they were permanently limited by the ancient graphic engine.Such a SHV would not be "three years project"... and I would be the first one to pay such a DVD title... and many, many more gamers. Even without significant marketing investments...

[rik007]

Define "better" in this case.

I fail to see the point, especially since SHIV's engine is the same engine, only with improvements. SHIV, in my view, is a much better game and a much better engine out of the box than SHIII, and fixed many things that were amiss in SHIII.

There are only two reasons to prefer SHIII over SHIV: 1) the fact that SHIV's mod development cycle is still in an early stage while SHIII is close to peak; 2) it is not an Atlantic sim, and some just like the Atlantic.

Elsewhere, while SHIV may have produced a few new pet peeves for experienced SHIII players (like the crew not being as responsive when clicked on for example), objectively speaking it IS the development that was needed for the SHIII engine. Its only real fault is that it was released a few months early.

As for "upgrading SHIII" - two words - "dream on". We're lucky SHIV is getting treated with that U-boat expansion, even. Otehrwise you're more likely to see Ubi make a new Atlantic sim at this point than patch SHIII - if you want the money side of this, they'd much rather spend money on development of a new $60 game than on upgrading an old (from their point of view - long-obsolete) game that costs no more than $10 a pop now.

I think there will come a SH-V version but it is not the right moment to start planning it. Ubi first will launch the add-on and after that it will be a logical step to start planning SH-V which should be in the Atlantic. The Atlantic theatre is much popular than the Pacific and offers the potential for Ubi moreover as within a few years the community will start complianing about the outdated graphics.

[Gezoes]

Well, one way or the other... I bet we will see the, superior, SHIV graphics in the Atlantic. Until that time though... SH3 it is. I doubt there will be a SH5 in the near future, after SH4 more or less bombed with the fans. That divide has nothing to do with graphics however. It's sound and gameplay.

SH4 is a non-immersive sim, complete with things like a horrible interface and little things like switching the F-keys around. I hate when devs change something that was nearly PERFECT. If that can be overhauled, SH4 is the platform to build on.

Until that time, give me the second skin that is SH3 any day :smug:

[Von Manteuffel]

IMHO the economics are against any forseeable new WWII submarine release, apart from patches and the promised "U-Boats in SH4" update. As has been said, SH3 off the shelf is now a remaindered item, available for very little and sold to clear existing stock. We should also remember that, in the minds of Ubisoft, the modding-community is "doing very nicely thank you" with developing SH3 - to the point where, I suspect - they see absolutely no need to invest any more time, or money in it.

In certain respects, SH4 was a step forward and, really, can be regarded as a development of SH3 - just as Medieval Total War was a development of Rome Total War. Apart from tweaks and a one-hit upgrade which will generate some interest / sales; Ubisoft may well regard subsims as "job done."

Pooters and graphics capabilities are improving and developing at an incredible rate, but I submit there has to be a better reason to spend profits on existing products than the fact that newer, faster and better graphics-cards and screens are available.

My money would be on any future submarine sim. - and there has to be a question-mark over the global level of interest / profit in submarine sims at all - but if it does happen, I think it will either be part of a massive new World War naval simulation, or, as with the Call of Duty franchise, be very modern, involving nuclear subs as well as diesel-electric boats

[bigboywooly]

Aye with the planned Indian Ocean update from Ubi tis a step forward into the Atlantic
I must admit I hate the SH4 interface with a passion so dont play it that often
Catch 22
If I did play more often I would get used to it

Besides OLC and others have altered the SH3 interface around hugely so no doubt the SH4 one could be tweaked also

If I am honest I dont see any more SH releases from Ubi in the near future
Maybe another addon with say Brit or Russian subs or 2 addons :hmm:
Thats easy for them to do as groundwork is already done and keeps the game alive

[xristoskaiti]

repair the big errors sh3.exe scene.dat the night the batteries and the hostile AI AND WILL BECOME a NEW GAME!!!!

[rik007]

SH-III was not bad business for Ubisoft else we would never have had SH-IV. After the add-on next year everything is possible. I'm convinced the Atlantic theatre is the most popular and we will see that it will remain interesting for software developers. Have some patience and we will see what will happen in the next few years. By the way next year is almost here... have a good 2008!

[Oldgamer48]

There's always the possibility of a more modern sub sim, possibly set in the Cold War, like Microprose's old Red Storm Rising (based on the Tom Clancy novel of the same name). But such a sim has to have an immersive environment similar to SH3, or it will go nowhere.

Also, it has to be realistic. What do I mean by that?

I worked with some people of very low IQ in a sheltered workshop. Among the many things there to stimulate them were computers.

One of the things I noticed was a young man whose IQ was 68, who was going quite far into the campaign of Red Storm Rising. I thought that was marvelous. Then, one day, I decided to watch him play.

He would bring his sub to the surface. Yes, he surfaced the boat! Then, he ran it up to flank speed, turned on all of the sensors, and started launching missiles and torpedoes. When the inevitable counterattack came, he launched countermeasures and maneuvered wildly.

I watched him destroy a complete Soviet surface task force, with six ships, in this manner. Needless to say, it wasn't particularly realistic!

Much more is needed than eye-popping graphics to make a subsim realistic ...

[CCIP]

SH-III was not bad business for Ubisoft else we would never have had SH-IV. After the add-on next year everything is possible. I'm convinced the Atlantic theatre is the most popular and we will see that it will remain interesting for software developers. Have some patience and we will see what will happen in the next few years. By the way next year is almost here... have a good 2008!
I have to say though, for all the hopes I see of going back to the Atlantic shortly - the features of the add-on suggest to me that the developers are actually edging towards a surface combat sim instead.

However it's definitely likely that with the addon + modding, an Atlantic campaign will be ported over to the new engine.

[FIREWALL]

IMHO I think UBI will watch how many logon to SH4 to play the surface ships to see if maybe they want to try a Destroyer Command type of game that will work with SH-4.

And a little off thread.


I would also like to thank CCIP for one of the first SH-4 mods :KEY COMMANDS so it made it so we didn't have to learn a new key map.

This was especially good for us that had both SH-3 and SH-4 installed.:up:

[candy2500]

i don't know when it will come but i don't think they will ignore the fact that so many people are still playing and love the U boat experience..just the other day i was trying to look for a old mod and found it on a Russian sight there still playing SH3, there playing this game in Germany, Russia, England, USA, Australia, Mexico and the list goes on, still playing, still enjoying the game, and a lot of gamers that play manly first person shooters and sports games on there boards still have long threads and topics about every mod every new ship that is posted on the subsim boards.... which theater is more popular, its no contest..

[GoldenRivet]

i think that the best investment any game designer could make is to listen to the community.

there are hundreds of great "what if" type ideas roaming around this community in particular. Every week somone posts a "what would you like to see in SH5?" thread and there are some great ideas, some terrible ideas and some out right impossible ideas... and the game designer who could figure out how to put the most number of those ideas into the next release, wins. period.

Ubi screwed up with silent hunter 4 because of two key elements.

FIRST: they were trying to make SH4 appeal to a wider audience by giving it more eye candy. big mistake. traditionally fans of the sim genre enjoy eye candy as a bonus... but are more concerned about the accuracy and realism of the sim. for example... Microsoft Flight Simulator X looks great... but more importantly it simulates the flight characteristics of various aircraft quite well. How successful do you think FSX would be if all of the airplanes flew like crap and the control options were limited to just a couple of items? it would bomb!

SECOND: They rushed it. pure and simple some big wig at ubi wanted to concentrate on other projects and SH4 likely was pushed to the bottom of the list and given some unreasonable or impossible release date.

all the eye candy in the world is pointless if the game is not stable or unreliable or filled with bugs... an early release is pointless if your program doesnt work! ask any GWX team member they will say the same thing verbatum :yep::yep::yep:

if any sofware developer out there wants to turn the subsim genre around - regardless of whether or not it is a WW1 WW2 or Cold War sim, they need to follow some simple steps.

Step 1: Make an announcement that a hot new sub game is in the works - thats it. No details, no release dates, no hints as to the type of game. COMPLETE SECRECY

Step 2: This is a big one!!! Listen to the community forums. see what the fans want. observe their ideas. and pack as much of them into the sim as possible!!!

Step 3: spend as long as it takes to develop/test the game so that it can be released in top form.

Step 4: only when confidence is high that a finished product is only a couple of months away... start announcments, release screen shots, run advertisments in magazines and online and maybe on TV. perhaps even release a demo. BUT ONLY WHEN YOU ARE CLOSE TO ABSOLUTE COMPLETION!

Step 5: release date.

There will probably be another addition to the Silent Hunter series. but it might take a while for that to come about.

but i think the lesson ubi (or anyone else) should learn from SH4... is listen to the fans of the genre. One primary example... we all wanted more 3d compartments - they gave us less.

SH4 looks great... but as far as sims go it was a train wreck! it took a few patches and a lot of mods from the community to fix ubi's mistakes and exemptions and it shouldnt be like that.

Lets compare the silent hunter 3 and 4 to cars...

SH3 was a hot new car that everyone wanted, it performed well, it handled nicely, and it was sporty and fast... it was one of the best late model cars out there. It was a nice ride to begin with and didnt need more, but some speed freaks made it cooler by adding powder coated headers. flowmaster exhaust. bored the engine, and added some neat tires and wheels to it. these mods - though cool - were OPTIONAL.

Then came silent Hunter 4... it was the shiniest and most desirable of the new sports cars! it looked great and was a chick magnet and was sure to blow previous models out of the water! but when people got it home they discovered that they HAD to modify it just to make the damned thing drivable!

in short - when i made the leap from SH2 to SH3 i was like "Whoaaa!!" :rock::rock:blown away...

when i made the leap from SH3 to SH4 i was like "oh" :roll:

Silent Hunter 5 needs to take us back to being blown away :rock::rock: - not just some mundane release with less of the features we hoped to see.

[ReallyDedPoet]

SH4 looks great... but as far as sims go it was a train wreck! it took a few patches and a lot of mods from the community to fix ubi's mistakes and exemptions and it shouldnt be like that.

Wasn't that similar to SH3 in the beginning :roll:. You have to remember SH3 had the benefit of being compared to SH2 :yep: SH4 on the otherhand was not only compared to SH3 but more importantly GWX and other larger mods, compare stock games if you truly want to compare. In my opinion SH4 based on the stock games is ahead.

At the end of the day they are both great games, it was time for the series to go back to the Pacific, that being said the U-Boat add-on will help in making the game go from theatre to theatre fairly seamlessly, which will be great for all involved. There will eventually be something for everybody in SH4.


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

SH4 looks great... but as far as sims go it was a train wreck! it took a few patches and a lot of mods from the community to fix ubi's mistakes and exemptions and it shouldnt be like that.
Wasn't that similar to SH3 in the beginning :roll:. You have to remember SH3 had the benefit of being compared to SH2 :yep: SH4 on the otherhand was not only compared to SH3 but more importantly GWX and other larger mods, compare stock games if you truly want to compare. In my opinion SH4 based on the stock games is ahead.

At the end of the day they are both great games, it was time for the series to go back to the Pacific, that being said the U-Boat add-on will help in making the game go from theatre to theatre fairly seamlessly, which will be great for all involved. There will eventually be something for everybody in SH4.


RDP

you have a good point... but i am comparing stock to stock, sure SH4 looked better than SH3, but in this gamers opinion - thats all she had going for her. I had tons of crashes and bugs with stock SH4... i never had that problem with SH3.

but this doesnt change the point of my post - if SH5 is to be successful the developers need to take it slow, listen to the wishes of the fans and once again leave us with that "wow" feeling.

:up:

[minsc_tdp]

If Ubisoft created another game with the capabilities of GWx and SH3 they would most likely make alot of money.
Sorry, subsims are a niche market and subsimmers are a rabid bunch who will buy up just about anything put in front of them. The only thing that would accomplish is that they would make the same amount of money as every subsim that came before, except that the players would be much, much happier. But since they buy anyway, what's the incentive to make everyone *really* happy?

The problem that has always persisted with this genre is that there aren't enough buyers who care about it. However, if I were trying to figure out how to make more money at this, I would consider that most subsimmers are probably older and have more money than the average 14-year old Halo player. I also know that standards are high, but if something is true quality, subsimmers will pay nearly anything.

So, if I were to do SH5 here's what I would do:

1. Fix everything technically wrong with previous releases. You know, bugs, multiplayer, etc. Basically, make a *real* game that works.
2. Make all of the character avatars highly customizable for that personal attachment.
3. Add a competitive persistent online rank system (sort of like BattleField)
4. Add an in-game purchasing/downloading mechanism
5. After release, put out a ton of followup content on a regular basis - new boats, more detailed locations, and do micro-sales (new boat for $4.00, new city graphic set is $3.00, avatar skins/uniforms, essentially the SecondLife model.)
6. Improve and support the moddability
7. Buy up user mods, clean and brand them, and sell them through the in-game store. They would still be free through the forums, but this would enhance the installability/support/etc (sort of like how Counter-Strike 1.6 is still free but you can also buy it through Steam.)

The idea here is that by fully committing to the game and offering pricey followup content, it generates more revenue than a typical $50 box game, and the plan would enable the company to justify the additional development effort. Then there's also a real incentive to make and keep everyone very happy, so they stay inside the game and pour more and more money into it, so you have a good reason to make a perfect game from the start that actually works.

This model is already being done to varying degrees in other games, but unfortunately the subsim market is just too small and I doubt they would ever take the risk and invest the kind of effort needed to try this for a niche market.

Minsc

[ReallyDedPoet]

you have a good point... but i am comparing stock to stock, sure SH4 looked better than SH3, but in this gamers opinion - thats all she had going for her. I had tons of crashes and bugs with stock SH4... i never had that problem with SH3.

but this doesnt change the point of my post - if SH5 is to be successful the developers need to take it slow, listen to the wishes of the fans and once again leave us with that "wow" feeling.

:up:
I have little if any CTDs since 1.3, none since 1.4, most in 1.3 were mod related. Many left early on in SH4, they did not give it time to be worked out, they are missing out now. SH4 devs are in the threads there and I believe have listened to a degree. Proof of that is that in 1.4 they used parts of leovampires excellent ROW mod, so folks here do make an impact with their suggestions.

I do see your point, and I am sure developers would like to have more time to finish their product, however UBI at the end of the day makes the decision to launch, it is out of the devs hands.


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

I have little if any CTDs since 1.3, none since 1.4
exactly. i dont expect it to be perfect in its stock condition - but we have to compare stock to stock, not modded/ patched to modded and patched

this discussion has gone nowhere a hundred times before... so out of respect for you RDP i think it would be fruitless to continue hahaha

i like SH4 now - didnt then

but thats beside the point - whoever makes SH5 needs to learn from previous versions of the game, and what made them pass or fail the test of the end user

[ReallyDedPoet]

I have little if any CTDs since 1.3, none since 1.4
exactly. i dont expect it to be perfect in its stock condition - but we have to compare stock to stock, not modded/ patched to modded and patched

I don't know what your point is there, isn't that the idea of a finished stock game, from there modders take over. Problem is, many left after 1.0 or 1.1, when it was unfinished, their loss.


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

my point of that comment is that you cant compare patched SH4 to Stock SH3.

i guess in the end there is no end to this discussion because SH4 has a loyal fan base and SH3 has a loyal fan base and then there is a mix who enjoy both.

"east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet" is a quote which comes to mind every time i see one of these SH3/SH4 discussions.

but back on topic...

If there ever were a SH5, the developer needs to listen to the loyal players and give us more of what we want to see...

more compartments
more ships
more 3-d crew
better command options
global theater of operations
better weather patterns
more in port options
an in port role playing type story line

and the list goes ever onward...

in the end the most successful subsim is going to be the one that includes the greatest number of those fan wishes.

[ReallyDedPoet]

my point of that comment is that you cant compare patched SH4 to Stock SH3.

i guess in the end there is no end to this discussion because SH4 has a loyal fan base and SH3 has a loyal fan base and then there is a mix who enjoy both.

"east is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet" is a quote which comes to mind every time i see one of these SH3/SH4 discussions.

but back on topic...

If there ever were a SH5, the developer needs to listen to the loyal players and give us more of what we want to see...

more compartments
more ships
more 3-d crew
better command options
global theater of operations
better weather patterns
more in port options
an in port role playing type story line

and the list goes ever onward...

in the end the most successful subsim is going to be the one that includes the greatest number of those fan wishes.

Why can't you compare both stocks, they are the same thing. Neither game was finished out of the box.

We can agree to disagree on some things, I can live with that. Both are great games.

You can create lists, that is a good thing, however they will never be done. Look at 2.0 when it was completed, people still want more and that is ok, we are fortunate to have a series that is so moddable to folks tastes :yep:

Good chat, no harm done here :up:


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

Why can't you compare both stocks, they are the same thing.
You can... im saying that you cant compare one to the other if one of them is patched and the other is not.

Good chat, no harm done here :up:
agreed :D

EDIT: about the lists... we could always hope that some of the bigger wishes on the list could be included into the next version. but - no matter how good a game is in its fresh from the vine condition... someone can always mod it to be better. which is a good thing.

[GoldenRivet]

there is another alternative...

If the game designers cannot spare the time to make the best game possible, or include most of the wish list items,

THEY SHOULD AT LEAST INLCUDE THE SDK!!! :rotfl:

im sure it would make some of the modders lives easier!

[ReallyDedPoet]

You can... im saying that you cant compare one to the other if one of them is patched and the other is not.



If SH3 is not patched, what are these:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/silenthunteriii/downloads.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=tabs&tag=tabs;downloads

That said, all the best in 08' GR :up:


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

hahaha dangit let me start over :rotfl::rotfl:

take a clean install of SH3 and put it on your computer but do not patch it (even though there is a patch)

take a clean install of SH4 and patch it to the latest version.

you cant compare the two in that condition because one is patched now and the other one is not... you have to compare them to one another when fresh out of the box and unpatched .... (because naturally the patched one will be more stable and have more fixes than the other)

does what im saying make sense now? sorry if i caused any confusion

[ReallyDedPoet]

hahaha dangit let me start over :rotfl::rotfl:

take a clean install of SH3 and put it on your computer but do not patch it (even though there is a patch)

take a clean install of SH4 and patch it to the latest version.

you cant compare the two in that condition because one is patched now and the other one is not... you have to compare them to one another when fresh out of the box and unpatched .... (because naturally the patched one will be more stable and have more fixes than the other)

does what im saying make sense now? sorry if i caused any confusion

Were on the same wave length now :doh:, sorry about that. A fair comparison would be the patched up versions, the ones folks play or install mods on, not the inital versions, so 1.4b for SH3, 1.4 for SH4. No one ever plays 1.0 for either version.


RDP

[GoldenRivet]

haha its ok... sometimes text is not as efficient as the spoken word :rotfl:

[Badger Finn]

IMO its not about more compartments and 3d crew etc

Its about getting right what they have like wheres the helmsman and the wolfpacks?

A U-boat sim with out wolfpacks ? Games 20 years old could code it and dynamic campaigns...

What about accurate 3d offices and stations. Watch say Das Boot once and theres a pretty basic officer and command room setup. 1st and 2nd + cheif eng + nav + helmsman etc etc or what about getting the command room layout right. Ubi can build all what they did why not build it accurate to start with?

Sometimes less is more imo.

:|\\

[Ducimus]

subsims are a niche market and subsimmers are a rabid bunch who will buy up just about anything put in front of them.

I agree. In a way theater preference is irrelvant. I feel that If there was only ONE sub sim, and existed in one theather OR the other, thats what people would play simply because its a sub sim. If ubi were to ever do another sub sim, i think it should be a departure from the usual allies vs axis. A ficticious post WW2 , pre nuke boat, cold war what if scenario might have appeal.

[i_b_spectre]

At the risk of kicking an ant hill, I think any developer would be wise to weigh the cost/benefit of copy protection. I only purchased SH3 this September after accidentally running across some posts that a certain CP was no longer present in the latest release. We all know there are those who have had no problems with it and those that have. I am not interested in playing Russian roulette with my computer and any software that may do me harm will not go on my hard drive. Reportedly, Ubi has moved away from this particular product, but there are others that may be attractive as a replacement and some of those are not without issues. Don't punish the legal user in the hopeless quest for protection that is often circumvented within minutes of a game's release.

Build a quality product, offer it at a reasonable price, support it and it will sell...particularly to a niche market. As has been previously posted, listening to the community is they key. Sure, the noise will need to be filtered, but there are good points made in forums like subsim by people who know and care. If my hardware were up to it, I would surely have tried SH4 by now, but it'll have to wait 'til I can upgrade.

[silentrunner]

Well I would say that SHV should have the cinimatic style graphics of SHIV but have an experiance like SH3. The graphics should look more like real life; not a movie. Remember that the purpose is to make it seem like you are commanding a sub not watching a movie. SHIII has probably been modified enough. Ubisoft should focus on creating a new game and not rush to release it because SHIV can still be modified.

[kiwi_2005]

A large topic among sub sim gamers is that of the creation of a new Silent Hunter. But while SH4 was a good game it did not match up to the capabilities of SH3' what went wrong? I think that SH3 had an overall better engine tobegin with, amd with mods like GWX it is almost a totally different game from vanilla SH3. If Ubisoft created another game with the capabilities of GWx and SH3 they would most likely make alot of money. They would also risk creating another SH4 a game that tried to match up to the capabilities as SH3 but just didn't have as good of an overall design. I would like to get your thaughts about wether a new SH game should be made or if they should just keep upgrading SH3. Keep in mind that as the game is further upgraded more people are buying it so there sales are still going up.
:rotfl::rotfl:

So who paid you to say that about SH4.

Maybe try the mods for SH4 and your think way differently. Would you still be playing SH3 without mods today?

My thoughts we dont need a new SH for the moment we got SH3 with GWX 2 or are you sick of that already, and we got SH4 with some great mods that make the game how its meant to be. Plus the Uboat Addon coming out soon. Hell stop worrying and go sink some ships! :arrgh!:

[TomcatMVD]

I'd bet my dollars on a nuclear subsim, maybe URSS vs US.
That's the way it always goes... look at battlefield, Call of Duty, and so on...
That's my two cents on it

[ReallyDedPoet]

A large topic among sub sim gamers is that of the creation of a new Silent Hunter. But while SH4 was a good game it did not match up to the capabilities of SH3' what went wrong? I think that SH3 had an overall better engine tobegin with, amd with mods like GWX it is almost a totally different game from vanilla SH3. If Ubisoft created another game with the capabilities of GWx and SH3 they would most likely make alot of money. They would also risk creating another SH4 a game that tried to match up to the capabilities as SH3 but just didn't have as good of an overall design. I would like to get your thaughts about wether a new SH game should be made or if they should just keep upgrading SH3. Keep in mind that as the game is further upgraded more people are buying it so there sales are still going up.
:rotfl::rotfl:

So who paid you to say that about SH4.

Maybe try the mods for SH4 and your think way differently. Would you still be playing SH3 without mods today?

My thoughts we dont need a new SH for the moment we got SH3 with GWX 2 or are you sick of that already, and we got SH4 with some great mods that make the game how its meant to be. Plus the Uboat Addon coming out soon. Hell stop worrying and go sink some ships! :arrgh!:

Well said :up:


RDP

[Brer Rabbit]

As a relative NOOB to the world of Subsims and to computer gaming as a whole, I just wantd to add my $.02 into the discussion. As I said in earlier posts, I cut my teeth on Silent Service (Atari) and Silent Service II early PC, as well as 688I and Harpoon series. I purchsed SHII years ago, but gave up on it due to lack of time, and what I considered a steep learning curve. I am now retired, and if I can duck out of Momma's demands on my time, I enjoy more time on the Computer. I installed SHIII a few years ago, did not play it until recently. I really came to enjoy the challenge it offers. When SHIV came out I immediately ran out and purchased it. Then the problems began. First my GFX card wasn't up to the challenge, and my computer just met specs. I ran out and upgraded the GFX card ( Nividia Fx 6200, which of course barley meets the requirements. The I saw that I needed more memory -- out I ran for 2 GB of memory. SHIV runs, but not to its full potential.
To make this long story short as has been mentioned subsimmers are a fairly small group and an older group of gamers, and one of UBIs errors was to come out with simulation that challenged many of those of us with older computers, with out a means to get into the game short of investing a substantial on new computer, or upgrades. That in itself limited the marketibility as well as increasing the frustration of many players.
They might have done better by offering an upgradable SHIV based more on the SHII engine as far as computer requirements go and offering upgrades of the game for more capible computers with all the bells and whistles.

Enjoy both games but I play SHIII more, due to computer limits. Both are super simulations. One your on the winning side and the other your on the losing side with totally differnt challenges. Hope they and the fantastic modders keep up the good work.

Sorry for the long post

Brer Rabbit AKA Kaluen Broderhase

[Riggsie15]

In my opion SH3's grapics run better and emerse you in the game better.

SH4 featurs are better, i.e. different mission objections and a better map.

SH3 with GWX and SH4 features would be great. In addition the single game with expansions bringing in more sub fractions that overlape on each other; i.e. core game = U-boats, exp1 = USA subs, exp2 = British subs, exp3 = Jap subs; would result in the ultimate subsim!

[IrischKapitan]

In my opion SH3's grapics run better and emerse you in the game better.

SH4 featurs are better, i.e. different mission objections and a better map.

SH3 with GWX and SH4 features would be great. In addition the single game with expansions bringing in more sub fractions that overlape on each other; i.e. core game = U-boats, exp1 = USA subs, exp2 = British subs, exp3 = Jap subs; would result in the ultimate subsim!

Ahhhh we can only dream :roll:

[pythos]

SH-5?

1914.

I like that.

The next silent hunter should be in the atlantic, but a few decades before the first type II dipped its belly into the water.

It would be a very interesting experience really. Totally different way of waging war under the sea. Actualy engaging warships blocading baltic ports. Adhiring do the prize rules. No sonar, or hydro phones. Ultra dumb torpedoes, without TDC. No Uzo. Limited diving depths. Harbor raids in Tini tiny UB1 boats.

Serving a land grabber, and not a mad man leading a genocidal political party.

[Puster Bill]

One of the things I noticed was a young man whose IQ was 68, who was going quite far into the campaign of Red Storm Rising. I thought that was marvelous. Then, one day, I decided to watch him play.

He would bring his sub to the surface. Yes, he surfaced the boat! Then, he ran it up to flank speed, turned on all of the sensors, and started launching missiles and torpedoes. When the inevitable counterattack came, he launched countermeasures and maneuvered wildly.

I watched him destroy a complete Soviet surface task force, with six ships, in this manner. Needless to say, it wasn't particularly realistic!

Hmmm, his tactics were bizarre and unusual, yet they worked.

Did this person also happen to have a tattoo that said "Welcome Aboard" on his, erm, member?

[kiwi_2005]

If there is going to be a SH5 i reckon - first i like to point out i have had many sleepless nights thinking about this and change my mind many times :) But SH5 should be Modern submarines why cause one we dont need another WW2 subsim, no Atlantic cause we have SH3 and gwx to take care of that and we dont need another Pacific caue of SH4. We need an updated Dangerous waters type sim maybe not so difficult as DW. A modern day dynamic campaign during the cold war era or a war a few years in the future. There be no one ocean to play in cause theyre modern subs we get to go anywhere.

Then again how about a Destroyer Command 2:yep: