SH3 player questions about SH4

[Fishmachine]

Hi!

I've been playing SH3 for some time, and now I'm trying SH4. There are some things that annoy me, because they are done worse than in SH3:

1. No salvo mode - tho historically accurate, so I won't complain.
2. Why aren't the torpedo courses drawn on the attack map? Do I need to click some option manually or what? I'm using the auto targeting.
3. Is there no auto recognition manual like in SH3? Do I really need to click through the entire manual to get the keel depth?
4. When I use metric system, are all the gauges also metric?
5. Is there no time/roadmap for subs/upgrades like in SH3?
6. Is there any gun actually utilizing the AA ammo? As the Flaks seem to utilize AP and HE ammo. Looking through the CFG files I noticed a 5" deck gun AA ammo. Does it mean, that my deck gun crew will shoot at planes? ;) What sub/year combo allows this gun?

[CaptainHaplo]

Welcome to SH4 - give it some time - it will grow on you - it really is a different beast.

#1 Your right - historically accurate - and its just something you get used to.

#2 My torpedo tracks are shown on the attack map - but not on the nav map. Make sure your on the right one is all I can suggest.

#3 Not sure what you mean - if you autotarget it identifies fine - otherwise it doesnt. Did sh3 do this differently? I always had to thumb thru the book and "check" the right ship during solutions....

#4 No clue - I play imperial - but I would suspect so.

#5 Not like in SH3 where you could look at the upgrade screen and see when something was coming available - historically realistic as no sub captain in 42 would know that in 45 he could get a XXI sub if he survived...

#6 If you dig into the files - you begin to see that alot of it is not used or left over from SH3 - but no your 5 inch gun will not shoot at planes. Maybe with a mod.....

Either way - stick with SH4 - its a real generation ahead in a number of ways over sh3 - even after GWX! *Although - GWX and SH3 are still a wonderful sight to behold! Enjoy!!!

[rodan54]

3. I'm guessing your refering to the ability to click on 'Ship' in SHIII with auto targeting on, and having the recognition manual open to the proper page? If so then no this isn't in SHIV.

[-Pv-]

Torp tracks not showing on the attack map is a problem prior to patch 1.4. Hope you are using 1.4.
-Pv-

[mookiemookie]

1. No salvo mode - tho historically accurate, so I won't complain.
If you want to get technical about it, U-boats didn't truly have a salvo mode either according to what I've read.

[seafarer]

You can use the "Q" key to open all outer doors (or as many as you wish). Set up your shots the way you want. Then, when ready, just shoot off all the tubes as fast as you want to - as good as a salvo I'd say.

An aside question? Is the reason for the no salvo firing due to the air cycling of the tubes? Reading http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/tubes/chap1.htm#1B there is a lot of air being exchanged within the boat, and I thought that was the reason you could not fire salvos - you had to give the air and displacement water time to cycle.

[mookiemookie]

An aside question? Is the reason for the no salvo firing due to the air cycling of the tubes? Reading http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/tubes/chap1.htm#1B there is a lot of air being exchanged within the boat, and I thought that was the reason you could not fire salvos - you had to give the air and displacement water time to cycle.

That, as well as the fact that multiple torpedoes fired at once could foul each other's runs and the magnetic exploders could interfere with each other.

[Fishmachine]

3. I'm guessing your refering to the ability to click on 'Ship' in SHIII with auto targeting on, and having the recognition manual open to the proper page? If so then no this isn't in SHIV.

Daaaaamn! I think I'll need to make some notes then rather than clicking all my way through the recognition manual every time ;)

[Fishmachine]

Welcome to SH4 - give it some time - it will grow on you - it really is a different beast.

Yup, it's a bit different as I see.

#2 My torpedo tracks are shown on the attack map - but not on the nav map. Make sure your on the right one is all I can suggest.


They just started appearing... MAGIC! ;)


#5 Not like in SH3 where you could look at the upgrade screen and see when something was coming available - historically realistic as no sub captain in 42 would know that in 45 he could get a XXI sub if he survived...


Well, yes, but from a players POV it would be nice to have a gallery of upgrades for every boat.


#6 If you dig into the files - you begin to see that alot of it is not used or left over from SH3 - but no your 5 inch gun will not shoot at planes. Maybe with a mod.....


So, is there ANY weapon utilizing AA rounds? So far, I've seen only AP and HE shells for both deck gun and flaks, but there are also greyed out AA rounds on both stations, so it simply bites me with curiosity ;)

[Sebbe02]

I have a SH4-question too:

what's the big difference in gameplay between 3 and 4? I liked 3, but got bored of it after a while (I could never find any warships, and too much patrols without real action).

[Ducimus]

1. No salvo mode - tho historically accurate, so I won't complain.

Open all the tubes you intend to fire, and spread your shots. For instance, if your target is moving from left to right from your firing position, shot your first shot, spread your next shot a little to the right, shoot that fish, spread the next shot a little more to the right, shoot that one, so on and so forth. You can acutally get a pretty good fan shot going. The trick is spreading the shots by the appopriate number of degrees.

2. Why aren't the torpedo courses drawn on the attack map? Do I need to click some option manually or what? I'm using the auto targeting.

They are. Last patch fixed this.

3. Is there no auto recognition manual like in SH3? Do I really need to click through the entire manual to get the keel depth?

No there isn't. Althoguh i did add the "identify target" function in the Trigger maru mod. It wont automatically set the book to the correct page, but it will identify the target.

4. When I use metric system, are all the gauges also metric?

The orders bar at the bottom of the screen will be in metric. I don't know about the acutally 3d gauges in the sub interior.

5. Is there no time/roadmap for subs/upgrades like in SH3?

Submarines in Sh4 are different. Its this difference between the two that confuse people.

- Germans for the most part had different types of submarines, each made for a specific usage. They had short range boats meant to patrol coastal waters such as the type 2, medium range boats meant for wolfpack operations in the mid and north atlantic like the type 7, and long range boats meant to patrol far off areas such as the type 9.

- Americans for the most part, only had one type of submarine. One meant for long range patrols. Unlike the germans who planned out operations in all sorts of areas, the Americans only had one intention in mind when designing their submarines. That intention was to be a scout, for the big battleship fleet. Unrestricted submarine warfare was never really on the agenda. As a result, the American submarine had a design goal, and the overall class of submarine was known as a "Fleet boat", denoting its original intention of running with the naval fleet. The submarines show in Sh4, are really an evolution of design. Which is to say, that in the overall scheme of things, the many boats in Sh4, are on a similar relationship to each as as say, a type7b to a type 7c to a type7c/41. (arguably this is oversimplying it)

But the evolution of design is something ilke this:
S Boat -> Porpoise ->Salmon/Sargo -> Tambor/Gar -> Gato -> Balao

The American S boat is most akin to a type 7, but it is of WW 1 vintage, and a real comparision to a german equivlant would probably be to call it a glorified type 2 uboat.

The Porpoise is most akin to a type 9 uboat, with 4 torpedos forward, and 2 aft.

The Salmon and Sargo, have 4 torpedos forward, and 4 aft.

Tambor and Gar represent the first sub designs that had the statistics the US navy was looking for all along, with 6 tubes forward, and 4 aft.

The Gato was a refinement, but with deeper diving depth. The balao a further refinement, with even more deeper diving depth.

From a Sh3 standpoint, while all boats in Sh4, are long range boats, the Gato in Sh4, is, what the type7 is in Sh3, and the balao is to the gato, what a type7c/41 is to a type7c.