Bhutto

[Iron Budokan]

Absolutely heartbreaking. All she wanted was peace, freedom and democracy for her country. :(

[Happy Times]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7161590.stm

Brave woman. She must have known this was to be expected and still went back and stayed after the first bomb..

[Steel_Tomb]

I had a feeling something like this would happen, sooner or later. A real shame, I think she would have done great things for her country, RIP. :down:

[Foxtrot]

seems that her money in Swiss accounts couldn't buy her some more time. :hmm:

[Skybird]

An almost expected outcome. It's a wicked place down there, and in my eyes one of the most dangerous countries on earth, in an international meaning. I have no sympathy for Musharaf. None for Buttho. And none for the Taleban-breeding quran-schools down there.

Before you shed crocodile's tears over her, remember that she has been in the centre of accustions over corruption, bribery, nepotism. I always considered the hints and evidence for these claims being true to be stronger and more convincing than the counter-statements of those wanting to defend her to wishfully hope for a dialogue adress for the West in Pakistan.

[mcf1]

Rest in Peace
Peace all she wanted

[fatty]

Before you shed crocodile's tears over her, remember that she has been in the centre of accustions over corruption, bribery, nepotism. I always considered the hints and evidence for these claims being true to be stronger and more convincing than the counter-statements of those wanting to defend her to wishfully hope for a dialogue adress for the West in Pakistan.

Quoted for truth. Not to speak ill of the dead, but she was hardly the great feminist saviour of Pakistani democracy that the West wants to think she was.

[Dmitry Markov]

My oppinion is exactly like Skybird's... I respect her fighting spirit though. Now, in some ways she even reminds me another strong woman from that part of the Earth - Indira Gandhi. Rest in Peace.

[August]

So the question is who done it? Extremists or Pakistani secret police?

[Skybird]

So the question is who done it? Extremists or Pakistani secret police?
Does it matter?

My bet is with a third option: an open bill being payed back from the times of her being in power. fourth option is musharaf himself, or his close environment.

Extremists and Pakistani secret police often means one and the same thing. the latter, like all security and military, is heavily infilitrated by the first. There also is a strong sympathy in major parts of police, intel and military for the "extremists".

[August]

So the question is who done it? Extremists or Pakistani secret police? Does it matter?

My bet is with third option: an open bill being payed back from the times of her being in power. fourth option is muisharaf himself, or his close environment.

Well I was referring to Musharrif when i mentioned the secret police which AFAIK he still controls, but your third option is intriguing.

I do think it matters who did it although i don't imagine that will necessarily coincide with who gets the blame for it.

[Happy Times]

An almost expected outcome. It's a wicked place down there, and in my eyes one of the most dangerous countries on earth, in an international meaning. I have no sympathy for Musharaf. None for Buttho. And none for the Taleban-breeding quran-schools down there.

Before you shed crocodile's tears over her, remember that she has been in the centre of accustions over corruption, bribery, nepotism. I always considered the hints and evidence for these claims being true to be stronger and more convincing than the counter-statements of those wanting to defend her to wishfully hope for a dialogue adress for the West in Pakistan.

Corrupton and nepotism being the normal policy in those parts i kinda of missed those claims as irrelevant.:lol:

[Foxtrot]

So the question is who done it? Extremists or Pakistani secret police?
It can be one of her family members. The person who can benefit from her death is her husband aka Mr. 10%. There were suspictions that he was involved in the murder of her brother in late 90s

[August]

So the question is who done it? Extremists or Pakistani secret police? It can be one of her family members. The person who can benefit from her death is her husband aka Mr. 10%. There were suspictions that he was involved in the murder of her brother in late 90s

Hmmm. Good thinking but this was a suicide bombing. Does the husband have that kind of influence?

[Konovalov]

Professor Plum, in the library, with the candlestick murdered Bhutto. :roll: Conspiracy theories, yada, yada, yada. It doesn't really make any difference except to excite ones own speculative senses.

My wife has just spoken to family members who live in Pindi and just up the road in Islamabad who are thankfully all ok. Basically the whole area has gone into voluntary lockdown. Shops, petrol stations, and the like have closed. Shutters have been put up and roller doors lowered to protect shopfronts. Some PPP supporters have vented their anger in the streets by burning and rioting. Most people are at home indoors now. All the phones (landline and mobile) were cut for a period of time in the immediate aftermath. We only just got through on the phone a good few hours after the terrible events that unfolded.

Bee bee (Benazir Bhutto) recently on Geo and ARY (Pakistan TV channels) had favourable opinion polls between 60 and 70 percent popularity. I too am not surprised that this terrible event transpired. Bhutto had balls. She knew that she was at a high risk of being assasinated. She accepted that risk and she paid the price for sticking to her principles and not cowering to the small islamist jihadi extremists who seek to plunge Pakistan into a Taliban style dark ages similar to that of which existed in Afghanistan.

I am not going to trample all over the name of a woman who showed more balls than most and stood by the courage of her convictions. Bhutto could have so easily taken the easy way of living in Dubai and the U.K. while earning hefty dollars on the speaking circuit such as past Presidents and PM's do. She could have sat back living the luxurious high life while thumbing her nose at her country of birth. She did NOT. So while she had shady allegations of corruption hang over her head and while she had successes mixed with plenty of failures as a past PM I will not seek to tread over her name only hours after her death.

Bottom line for me is that she was a courageous women. Her death is a major blow but it is not one from which Pakistan can not recover and move forward. As a Westerner I am struck by the emotion that I have seen from my relatives in response to the news. My wife, as many of her direct family, was no Bhutto supporter yet there have been many tears flowing this afternoon.

And in my first visit to Pakistan to see my wife's family relatives/members in her local village in Kashmir along with those in Islamabad and Rawalpindi a few months back I know that they are immensly frustrated by Musharraf and his slowness in taking the country forward and out of crisis. My feeling from my time over there is that a majority of the Pakistani public have been frustrated by decades of corruption, incompetence, poor leadership, and political bickering over power. Coup after coup. They are frustrated to see that their cousins across the border in India have made so much progress while Pakistan languishes under military dictatorship and stalled democratic reforms. I feel for them because they deserve better.

My thoughts and prayers are with those who have lost loved ones including the long suffering Bhutto family. May those who planned and plotted these crimes be brought to justice in a courtroom or via the pointy end of military hardware.

[geetrue]

True or false I do not know, but if true can explain a lot.

Islamic militants linked to al-Qaida and the Taliban hated Bhutto for her close ties to the Americans and support for the war on terrorism. A local Taliban leader reportedly threatened to greet Bhutto's return to the country with suicide bombings.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pakistan;_ylt=Au6H6xnxc8tNnR.MWt.Ca._zPukA

[Letum]

Perhaps not the greatest of leaders, but far from the worst.
None the less, it is both a political and human tragedy and a dark day for the country.
http://www.heady.co.uk/b3ta/pakistan_flag.gif

[Onkel Neal]

It's not good to have a country with 70 nukes in this kind of turmoil. If anyone wants me, I'm moving back to the bunker.

[CCIP]

It's not good to have a country with 70 nukes in this kind of turmoil. If anyone wants me, I'm moving back to the bunker.

Agreed.

In retrospect, while this hasn't settled in, but this may well have been the worst (i.e. most significant negative) international news event of the year. I can't see this going anywhere besides Ugly.

I hate to come off cynical, but my first response when I heard was unsurprised to say the least. I said "she had it coming", ironically of course. I don't have enough knowledge of the persona to pass final judgment, except that she was certainly neither angel nor demon - and with a lot of guts. And certainly the alternatives out there now for Pakistan are probably much worse. I hope the rest of the world is watching.

[TteFAboB]

A meeting of martyrs.

[Skybird]

What is known about Pakistan's nukes? Are they bombs or missiles? Are the storage sites known, as far as public knowledge goes?

[STEED]

It's not good to have a country with 70 nukes in this kind of turmoil. If anyone wants me, I'm moving back to the bunker.

Sorry Neal us lot beat you to the bunker. :p



On a serious point.
She knew this could happen and came close to one when she returned to Pakistan, there is not much more to be set as we all have to wait and see what unfolds in the coming days.

[DeepIron]

Despite her "shady past" Bhutto appeared to have a positve influence with the Pakistani people. Her death is certainly tragic and will only precipitate more chaos, anger and turmoil. :damn:

[Skybird]

German language: Christopher Hitchens on Buttho, he knew her personally:

http://www.welt.de/meinung/article1499565/Atomwaffen_und_Islamisten_sind_sich_nah_wie_nie.ht ml

Courageous - yes, but also: a bit fanatic, populist, lying.

[elite_hunter_sh3]

america AGAIN ends up supporting a mentally ill dictator with nuclear weapons... o boy.. :shifty::shifty::roll: