Convoy station keeping???

[Tobus]

I've started up with SH4 again and the excellent Trigger Maru. Great game, but after my first run in with a convoy I immediately knew again why I threw my copy in the closet the last time ... the horrible convoy station keeping, and offcourse the Japanese supervision that can spot a scope 3km away.

At first, everything is fine. I make my approach, plan my attack and let some fish go. These usually hit. But then, everything goes to sh#t. All ships go twisting and turning like mad, making every conceivable follow-up attack useless. This wouldn't be too bad if it were short-term, but allas, they seem to stay that way throughout the rest of their voyage. I took a distance, doubled back and was ready and loaded for another run. But even 12 hours later the ships were horribly twisting and turning, even running into eachother. In a nutshell: It seems attacking the same convoy can only be done once. After that, setting a manual targettingsolution is a nightmare and a usually a waste of time.

Is there a mod that can undo this, or is this just the way SH4 goes? Cause if it is, I'm back to SH3 + GWX again.

[Snuffy]

The point is to sink the convoy on the first pass then you won't have this problem the next time around! :)

I'm kidding of course.

[AVGWarhawk]

I cannot say I have experienced the convoy still twisting and turning. Sure, I have seen them scatter and a lot of convoys did. In game I have seen them resume course after a while. I do not know if TM has changed convoy behavior. I'm using RFB.

[Karbo]

I'm running TM and they scatter but they do resume course after awhile. I have not seen your problem Tobus. Are there any other mods that you have?

[Ducimus]

So long as an AI unit has contact with your, or as seen you, they'll stay alerted. Nothing i have done will change when, they resume base course. Ive even left "lost contact time" at its stock values since it behaves differently in SH4. Takes a couple game hours before they settle down, assuming they don't come in contact with you again. Best bet is to maintain radar contact and shadow them at range.

Hey, at least its not like in real life where some convoys moved by constant helming over one direction or another. Imagine trying to set up a firing solution on a target that moves in curves (as opposed to straight lines), in addition to zig zagging.

[Snuffy]

Running TM here as well and I experience what the others are saying Tobus.
My question would be ... when you reapproach the convoy where you at? What speed you running? and etc.

If the escort knows you're about they are going to alert the convoy again, which will cause the scattering.

Try a different angle of approach, come in below the thermal, and never during the course of pending attack run your TC over 1:1.

<edit>Damn Ninja'd by Ducimus!</edit>

[-Pv-]

A convoy that continues to scatter long after your initial attack is probably still detecting you. Ships that detect you 3Km away are doing so because you are not being stealthy enough and that is likely the reason you are getting re-detected. After the first attack, unless you are clear for another shot as they scatter and you're right inside the convoy, you need to slink away, then zoof at high speed only using radar contact for position. Or without radar occasional-brief visual contact of the outside elements, get way out in front and slink in again. By then they will usually be reformed (mostly) but will also be more alert than the 1st time when you caught them off-guard.

If the game was as bad as you claim, no one would play it. It's all about tactics, technique, stealth, surprise, survival. Put yourself in the position of the convoy captains. What would you expect if you were them?
-Pv-

[Ducimus]

Although anyone can find the visual spotting distances in the dat files ( i tend not to say what they are so the game keeps an element of surpise), i will say that once youve attacked, you need to pull at least 9KM (4.5 NM?) away from the convoy. If dark, then at least 60% of that distance.

[Tobus]

Hmm, what you guys are saying could make sense. I usually stay within visual range, about 6-8 km. But I do find it somewhat strange that, if the enemy can't see you coming at that range, they CAN see you leaving and following them at that range?

I'll look into it, thanks for the pointers.

One thing I did see: some convoys are led by a large military ship, like a heavy cruiser. Sinking that one sometimes does crazy things to the convoys, scattering and weaving indeffinately. But not always though. This I find kinda cool.

Thanks again for the pointers guys, I'll try taking greater distance tonight after run #1.

[AVGWarhawk]

One thing I did see: some convoys are led by a large military ship, like a heavy cruiser. Sinking that one sometimes does crazy things to the convoys, scattering and weaving indeffinately. But not always though. This I find kinda cool.


There is a great account of the USS Rasher that hit a 20 ship convoy. They sunk a CV aircraft carrier. Once she went down, the others were scattering like cockroachs in the light. Most headed to islands to beach themselves. The crazy scattering is not all unrealistic. Mass confusion. Sometimes they would fire at each other!

As the guys said, get out of their range and see if they return to course. They should as the wolf is out of their field:yep:

[-Pv-]

Although I occassionaly work over a large convoy with big targets more than once, I usually aim to take out two to three of the largest targets in one pass and move on. There will always be more convoys to attack. Sticking around too long close to patrol plane areas is very risky.

I size up the convoy, pick my targets, set up my attack to take out those targets and dive under the convoy and exit out the other side using the mass of ship props churning at high speed to mask my passage. After I get far enough away from the escorts that it appears they dont know where I am, and if I see by the hydrophone there are unusually slow or stationaly targets, then I move back up to pariscope depth to see if I need to finish any off.

The difference between the high speed end around and the low speed close-in surprise approach is your wake. The faster you go and the more profile you offer, the further away you can be spotted. There may be an alert factor making the second approach more difficult. During the 2nd end around, the escorts KNOW you are somewhere near and are watching for you.
-Pv-

[Tobus]

I tried to take a longer end-around yesterday, and the 4-ship convoy now took on its normal course. On my 2nd pass, I injured 2 ships, after 10 minutes lying still and wallowing with a heavy list. The other 2 cargoships were circling or simply not moving, like they were guarding their buddies with their guns. Strange behaviour to me, since a cargo with 1 gun is no match for an underwater enemy. Too bad I was out of torps!

Anyway, when they circled behind the ships I injured, I quickly raised and put 5 AP rounds in both injured ships, then dove again. They sank within 30 minutes, after which the other 2 ships left on their previous course.

Anyway, taking an end-around further out seems to be the solution to my "problem".

[Rockin Robbins]

See what happens with a constructive attitude? Why can't we all just get along like this all the time? :cool:

OK, what's with all this metric bullschnitzel????? If you're going to do that at least have the courage to go all the way to its logical conclusion.

The metric system is based on abandoning all relevancy in measurements and choosing an arbitrary measure that bears no relelation to anything we care about. Then after we have screwed the pooch, we justify it by putting it all in a cute little decimal system package and claiming that makes it superior.

OK, if the metric system is so superior, let's extend it, remaining faithful to the concept. What's this 24 hours in a day crap? Henceforth the day shall have 10 hours of 100 minutes (we'll pick the stupid metric names later:yep:). Each minute shall have 100 seconds of course. We leave the minute at its present duration. Yeah, I know that minutes, seconds and hours mean something astronomically. Sounds like a personal problem to me.:down: The metric system is all about being totally arbitrary. Get with the program! Days have nothing to do with the cycle of light and dark any more! The light cycle is 14.4 hours. A metric day is now something else entirely meaningless. That is why the metric system is superior elsewhere, why should this be any different?:doh: Oh, the metric week now has 10 metric days. We'll invent meaningless names later to avoid confusion.

360º in a circle! How stupid is that? Oh, yeah, it has something to do with the number of days in a Roman year. Damn, it means something! Gotta fix that.

First, the year. From now on the year is exactly 100 new metric days. Has nothing to do with the Earth's rotational period around the Sun, but this is the metric system: live it! Learn it! Love it! Man is the measure of the universe and we'll measure it the way we damn please as long as the units are evenly divisible by 10!

Now we can divide the circle into 100 metric degrees and decree millidegrees and centidegrees and all that cute loveable stuff.:88) There you go.

Money! What's all these five and twenty dollar bills????!!!!! That's not a power of 10. We're metric here! Money will only be in pennies (one cent), dimes (10 cents), single dollars, tens, hundreds, thousands, etc by powers of 10 ONLY!!!!

Convenience be damned! Relevance be damned! Man is the arbiter of measurement and to prove it we must be arbitrary!

So let's not lose heart. Let's finish the metric hack job! It is our sacred duty. We must throw off the chains of relevancy and convenience and begin our new world of man's ascendency to metric master of measurement! Onward, through the fog! We have only our minds to lose!:arrgh!:

[Tobus]

Had too many mushrooms, Robbins?

[Digital_Trucker]

Nah, looks like he spent a few metric weeks at Starbucks sipping pure metric caffeine:rock:

Why can't we argue about something a little less controversial, say......... ah...... like politics or religion:rotfl:



The above was just a joke, please don't get RR started on anything else or his blood pressure will rocket into the metric triple digits

[Rockin Robbins]

N The above was just a joke, please don't get RR started on anything else or his blood pressure will rocket into the metric triple digits
Great Scott!! Another fabulous idea for the new metric system. I don't even know what the measurement units for blood pressure are, but should that stop me? NO!! All we have to do is find a pressure that is totally irrelevent to whatever bodily processes are involved (our unit shall be the water pressure at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. We will call it............the Robbins!) then everyone's blood pressure will be below three digits. In fact it will be a tiny part of a single unit. My blood pressure is 12 picorobbins. It's genius I tell you! The metric manifesto marches to its manifest destiny! Today France, tomorrow the world!:up:

Yes, I'll have three more metric lattes and one for my friend Digital Trucker over here. Honest, it doesn't affect me at all.

[DrBeast]

Yo Rockin Robbins, check the expiration date of your drugs, man. Expired drugs are bad, m'kay? :rotfl: And remember: you need ONE metric pill per METRIC DAY for better results :lol:

ETA: Lest I forget, HAPPY NEW METRIC YEAR! :rock:

[AVGWarhawk]

Does this measure up?

[DrBeast]

Does this measure up?

Yes. Rounded down for convenience :rock:

[Rockin Robbins]

Didn't realize I was raisin' that kind of ruckus. Here, have some of my drugs. They're metric Imodium AD.:up:


Ah.......testifyin' in me own defense, I DID wait until Tobus' problem was resolved before bargin' in here and talkin' sense. And it was relevent to the problem at hand in a kinda metric sense......:arrgh!:

[DrBeast]

My apologies for (helping with) hi-jacking this thread...I blame general holiday silliness.:88) As you were! :arrgh!:

[longam]

Pie r square, what the hell is that all about?

[Rockin Robbins]

My apologies for (helping with) hi-jacking this thread...I blame general holiday silliness.:88) As you were! :arrgh!: I forgive you. Here, have a metric latte.

@longam Beats me. Some lunatic came in here and started spouting off about the metric system. It was pretty disgraceful, really. But it's all under control now.....:()1::()1::()1::()1::()1::()1::()1:

[longam]

My apologies for (helping with) hi-jacking this thread...I blame general holiday silliness.:88) As you were! :arrgh!: I forgive you. Here, have a metric latte.

@longam Beats me. Some lunatic came in here and started spouting off about the metric system. It was pretty disgraceful, really. But it's all under control now.....:()1::()1::()1::()1::()1::()1::()1:

Oh well, I'm off to blow up some mm pixels

[Digital_Trucker]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/digital_trucker/Smilies/smileW.gif http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/digital_trucker/Smilies/Laughin.gif http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/digital_trucker/Smilies/Laughin2.gif You guys crack me up, my sincere http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/digital_trucker/Smilies/Raspberry.gif apologies for my part in the hijacking.

[Snuffy]

Pie r square, what the hell is that all about?

No, no, NO! ... Man! Cake are square ... Pie are round! :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

Pie r square, what the hell is that all about?

No, no, NO! ... Man! Cake are square ... Pie are round! :yep:
Wrong again! Cake can be any shape...Cornbread r square!:up: