Help please - how do SH3 and SH4 compare?

[MarkShot]

I've been playing AOD, SHCE, SC, and DW over the last couple of years.

I also played some SH3/GWX 1.03 over this past year.

When I got a new computer this year (March), I bought a copy of SH3/SH4. I didn't really bother with SH4. Now, it seems that SH4 is fairly mature and has received its final patch and has a large collection of mods.

So, I am thinking about 2008 and what I shall be playing.

I would like to ask how do SH3 and SH4 compare with each other? Perhaps, it would be better to ask how does SH3/GWX and SH4/mods compare, since I won't waste my time on the stock games?

Of course, I know that basics:

SH3 u-boats/German and the Atlantic/convoys. Very difficult to survive career. Less hardware demanding.

SH4 fleet boats/American and convoy/task forces. Easier to survive the war and better graphic engine. Other missions besides simply sink stuff.

* I have the hardware to run SH4 well. (Despite that I spent Christmas Day playing AOD under DOSBOX.)

This is all I know. Aside from the above what are differences in features provided the player and game play between the two games?

For SH3 these days, GWX has pretty much become the standard despite the availability of other mods.

Has SH4 reached this stage of mod standardization yet? Is there a single or just a few essential mod packages which I can install that contain the best of the modding which has been done since the game was released?

Thank you.

[TheSatyr]

I believe that SH3+GWX is still the "Gold Standard" as far as Sub Sims go,but SH4 is slowly catching up.

As for SH4 mods,while I don't use any myself from what I've seen on these forums the big 3 are Trigger Maru,Real Fleet boat and Run Silent,Run Deep.(I apologize to anyone who's mod wasn't mentioned,but these three seem to be talked about the most.).

As for SH4 being "easier" than SH3,I think there may be alot of randomness thrown into Japanese ASW efforts in 4. Some Escort groups act like the old Keystone Kops,while other groups can be pure murder. To be honest,I've yet to survive a campaign. At some point I always seem to run into a BullDog of a captain who is a depth charge expert.

In the campaign I'm doing now,I'm Commanding the S-Boat S-41. After sinking 3 ships I got caught by 3 DDs in 150ft of water. I've had 2 bulkheads damaged,both propellor shafts damaged,two completely flooded compartments and a laundry list of other assorted minor damage.(And I've lost over a third of my Hull Strength.) I'm sitting on the bottom trying to repair enough of the damage to get mobile again while 3 DDs are taking turns DCing me. They seem to know I'm on the bottom,since all their DCs are going off right at the sea bottom,but so far they haven't quite found exactly where I am yet. I'm hoping that they will eventually decide I'm dead and take off,since I'm not exactly in a real good position right now.

[-Pv-]

As far as your statment "Final Patch" is concerned, do not listen to the rumor mill. The mill has been predicting every patch of the four so far was the final. There's been no official announcment from UBI they have stopped all patches. I would bet money there will be more. You show me an official statement from UBI they have given up and I'll believe it. They did a formal announcement for SH3 and I know they will do so for SH4 also.

As far as your difficulty statement, I'm playing stock SH4 and I find it as difficult if not more so than stock fully patched SH3 when set to the higher realism levels. As has been said, too many people complained the whole game was too easy based on attacking one or more of the easy convoys. The larger convoys with 5 or more escorts and several large, valuable ships can be very aggressive and may even cause you to give up in search of easier prey (or lose your boat trying.) There is a wide range of skill for both aircraft and ships. Even some merchants can give a good accounting of themselves if you are careless.

The mod cycle is still early on this product and probably will not be fully mature for a couple more years yet. The game is fully enjoyable without mods and will keep you busy for many months of solid play.
-Pv-

[donut]

know the basics::up:

Last patrol we were damaged @ 250ft below thermal,running silent,33% hull.with seasoned crew took on 2 DDs,& 6 convoy,after we sank them all,the bees arrived,& finished @ 110ft, 100%hull:down: After a kill depart area.:sunny: Thats T_M_1-7:damn: IMO

[Ducimus]

I suspect SH4 will see one more patch, possibly two.

I think some patching to the base game, or additional features for the base game will be included in the uboat expansion - as incentive for everybody to want to buy it. Otherwise, they'd be cutting their sales short if they targeted just uboat missions. Thats my theory anyway.

After that expansion is released, i suspect they'll be one more patch after that. Of course this patch will be targeted at fixing bugs in the expansion, and probably won't have anything to do with the base game.


Now if you want to compare the games, heres my unbiased, objective evaluation:

- From a technical standpoint, SH4 is the superior title of the two. Better graphics, better load times.

- From a modding standpoint, Sh4 is a mixed bag. Somedays im grateful for how things work in Sh4, and the next day i'll be cursing it, swearing that SH3 was easier to mod for. From a modding standpoint, its a 50/50 coin toss. Certain aspects which were trivial to mod in SH3, are seemingly hardcoded in SH4, and its maddening. Conversly , some of the file structure changes makes modding certain aspects a little more robust. Again, coin toss, some days i hate it, others i don't.

- From a immersion standpoint, in terms of atmosphere, as much as it pains me to say it, i think SH3 has the upper hand here. The reason for this, is quite simply because Sh3 was 3 or 4 years in development. Sh4, was only 1 year in develpment. Hence the base game of SH3 (sans mods), has some atmospheric polish in it that Sh4 lacks. Its in this area where i think people looking to make a uboat mod, or otherwise create an atlantic theater in Sh4, will ultimatly be sorely disappointed. In terms of a uboat sim, all they'll really get for their efforts, is fancy graphics with quicker load times, at the cost of things that really helped with immersion in sh3.

- From a theater standpoint, there really is no way to compare. You either like apples, or you like oranges, so i just wont get into this aspect of Sh3 vs sh4.