Running SH on a MAC

[mfykes]

Sirs,
Having had to under go TONS of hardware crashes, software updates, and a number of "what now's", I have decided to make the switch to a MAC this February. Is there anyone who can provide information as to just how well SH (3 or 4) runs on a MAC? Is there any added hardware or software needed before one gets underway?

Respectfuly,

mfykes

[Peto]

My nephew swiped my brothers copy of SH3 and runs it on his (over-priced) MacBook with its nice MacMonitor. Using Bootcamp and XP, it seems to run very well. At least he hasn't called me for tech support since he installed it. :hmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

Far be it from me to help someone who has surrendered to the dark side.:hulk:

I was there when Apple abandoned legions of Apple /// users to die on the battlefield. I was there when Apple refused to update the Apple ][ series and keep it current, in spite of being totally possible. I bought disk ][ drives for $300 when PC drives (identical Shugart units) sold for less than $50. I was there when although the iPod calls home every time it logs into iTunes and Apple confirmed they could track every iPod ever sold but wouldn't help customers reclaim stolen iPods because a "stoled" iPod is a sold iPod. I was there when Apple chose to make an exclusive deal with ATT, with the worst customer service of any cell phone provider and lock out all other possibilities, while maintaining cute advertising campaigns about how Apple opens up possibilities for their cherished customers. Now they seek to wipe out the people who are modifying the iPhones to use other better cell phone providers.

Everything Microsoft was accused of in the early 2000's is true doubly for Apple right now, seeking total monopoly, not just over their hardware configuations, but in how they are used, refusing to take such obvious customer service moves as tracking stolen units and returning them to their rightful owners, as GM has done with OnStar.

Finally Apple sells its products not by their technical superiority, but by a crass elitism. Apple sells to those rich enough to waste their money on overpriced products and they're damn proud of it. Who cares about the rest? Then they cut the price in half a month after it's introduction, making fools of all those who had to have their product right away. And the joke is on everybody! The iPhone is still overpriced. It supports no video codec but Quicktime. Any website with flash, java, etc. need not apply. Yet fools rush back for more abuse.:88)

Welcome to OS Leopard, featuring a brand new innovation in computing: the Blue Screen of Death. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2223921,00.asp. Arrogance is Apple.

Other than that I love Apple:sunny:.

[Chock]

I have to work on Apple Macs a lot of the time (when I train people on Photoshop, Illustrator etc) because they tend to be popular in the advertising industry and other media-based businesses, so I have a lot of experience of them, even have a couple of Macs in my house, including the massively overpriced Macbook Pro thingy which my missus insisted on buying:rotfl: So I know a fair bit about them, and what to watch out for.

The new (Leopard) operating system, which you will likely end up with if you buy a new Mac has a few problems. In a bizarre twist of insanity, Microsoft tried to make Vista look like Mac OSX, while Apple tried to make Leopard work more like Windows. Pedictably, both Microsoft and Apple have copped a lot of flak for these moves, but more importantly for you, the new Leopard O/S does now introduce something we PC users have been used to for quite a number of years to the Mac fraternity, the 'blue screen of death' or more correctly, it's a bit unstable. In fairness, Apple have patched this, but it is not totally sorted.

You might also want to note that with the switch to Macs using the Intel processor these days, and the newer operating system, Macs are not now the happy 'everything works on a Mac' software paradise they used to be, and to some extent this has been true since they went to OSX (the one before Leopard), so you find things like Adobe Illustrator CS2 crashing on OSX on an Intel processor Mac if you have the attributes palette open (which is not very helpful). Other pre-CS3 applications are similarly unstable on Intel-based Macs, which is a bit of a bummer since Adobe Acrobat 7 (i.e the CS2 variant) is far better than Acrobat 8 (the CS3 version), which is, to put it bluntly, a big pile of arse.

But to answer your question about extras you might need, in theory you shouldn't need anything too expensive to emulate a PC environment, but be prepared to ditch much of the standard Mac stuff in order to do stuff on the Internet, as there is little support for Mac stuff on many sites. An example of this is the fact that I had to ditch Entourage the crappy email software from my wife's Macbook in order to get it to pick up mail and connect reliably to my (PC-based) wireless network at home, so she now uses Mozilla's Thunderbird for email on her Mac for example. But what is more of a bummer for Mac users, is the fact that (like Vista) you can often find yourself unable to view things on websites because they don't support Mac stuff, a big example of this is the BBC's 'watch again service' which supports neither Vista, OSX or Leopard for that matter, whereas if you have Windows XP, you're in business.

My wife Max has just read this over my shoulder and she thinks PCs are the spawn of Satan, and Macs were created in heaven by the little baby Jesus, however, she just read this message and does not disagree with its content. But she still perseveres with Macs and, like many people, will always love Macs no matter what I say about them.

One last thing, if you are used to ripping out a graphics card and slinging another one in your PC, or RAM or any other bit, be prepared for a shock. In order to keep your Mac under warranty, you will have to use Apple Authorised components in it, and Apple authorised usually translates as Two years behind PC in terms of development and four times the price of the one you could buy for a PC that doesn't have the Apple Authorised sticker on the box.

Got to go, my wife has commanded me to make a brew as punishment for daring to slag off the Mac.

:D Chock

[iricund]

Moving swiftly away from resultant fanboyism and flaming which inevitably ensues when one brings up the Mac/PC divide - I'm running SH3 and 4 on my Macbook Pro. No issues whatsoever in Bootcamp. There is a possibility you may get somewhat passable results from virtualisation - be that Parallels or Crossover. In my experience though virtualisation has never been up to much cop for anything requiring use of you GPU.

Put it on Bootcamp, use the new Apple drivers, and no problems at all. SH4 flies.

[iricund]

Rereading what you asked - depending on what Mac you get I'll break it down some more:

Three products exist allowing you to run Windows within the Mac OS (virtualisation). They are VM Fusion, Crossover, Parallels. These were designed for mainly basic office use - allowing people to fire up MS Word etc and deal with pesky file issues mostly. They're not cut out for heavy processing jobs as in effect the Mac is having to run two different operating systems at the same time. The alternative is to run Bootcamp - which involves you setting up a separate Windows partition on your hard drive which in effect turns your Mac into a PC when you turn it on and select to boot into Windows.

Obviously Bootcamp is the better option for anything needing processing power as it allows you to ditch the Mac OS when you want to run PC software. With all these solutions you will of course need a copy of XP or Vista which may set you back a bit.

If you go Bootcamp as noted above Mac hardware is not usually at the top end of the PC market and is not really designed for upgrading (with the exception of the Mac Pro). That said it's generally good kit in some models, not so much in others.

iMac - decent enough GPU in the newer model. Hopefully by Feb Apple will have shipped updated Windows drivers.

Macbook - At the moment the GPU is rubbish by any standard. By February there will likely have been an upgrade though. At the end of January at Macworld there are some strong suggestions of an upgraded laptop line which would likely see a speed bump for the existing Macbook.

Macbook Pro - Currently pretty much a top of the line GPU for a notebook. Good to go.

Mac Pro - Upgradable but pricey. Depending on the model you either get good or uber good. No problem with SH4 though.


Whichever Mac you get buy as much RAM to put in it as you can afford. RAM is always nice to have and whilst you will pay a premium for Apple to fit it in you have to weigh up the benefit of installing it yourself (easy enough to do) with the prospect of some over zealous Mac "genius" claiming you voided your warranty if you have any issues needing repair 12 months down the line.

[tater]

I'm reading this on one of my macs right now. I haven't gone to leopard yet, because tiger ain't broken. In the other room is my ancient titanium powerbook—it has been on since the summer of 2001, and the only restarts have been official OS upgrades that require a restart. Not bad to have an uptime measured in years.

My SH4 machine is a PC, though I've thought about bootcamp, just never got around to trying it. I have to say, I prefer my macs to use, but I'm equally comfortable with my XP Pro machine (I've had gaming PCs for years, and I work with them at times as well), though it's certainly more finicky.

Now that the OSes both use the same hardware, it really is mostly a preference issue. I read a recent article that said a macbook running vista beat the other vista laptops. Say what you like, they make really nice hardware. Pop the hood on a mac tower some time and look inside. I tried to do a good job on the E6600 I just built this spring, but man, gotta love the look of something that can be built for specific hardware, not a generic box to take a wide array of PSUs, mobos, etc. It's sorta like our new car. If the 335xic bmw had to have a generic engine compartment to take 80% of all engines available the car would look rather different under the hood :D


Good luck with it, though. :yep:


tater

[Rockin Robbins]

Moving swiftly away from resultant fanboyism and flaming
That's a fine characterization "fanboy." How about using facts and logic to support the unsupportable? Holier than thou is not an argument. It is surrender.:rock: Here is an argument: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,2223921,00.asp. It's more like an indictment:p.


An arrogant horizontal AND vertical monopoly (read Apple, not Microsoft) cannot provide the value and innovation to the consumer realized by a healthy, vigorous free market such as exists in the PC realm. It's the old safety vs freedom, order vs chaos, argument all over again. Give me freedom and chaos every time!:arrgh!:

Deep thought for today: In an orderly system where safety is the prime directive an unknown team of Romanian programmers would never get the opportunity to code Silent Hunter III and change the simulation universe. Freedom and free market economics: because innovation cannot be planned or controlled.

[cherbert]

I'm running SH4 on a MacBook Pro with Vista (In Bootcamp) at 1920x1200. It works flawlessly!