How´s it possible?

[vodkavera]

I know that it´s impossible to use the deckgun or the flak when it´s stormy weather.
That´s allright by me, but I was wondering how is it possible to reload
the torpedoes from the external reserve when its windy and high waves?

I thought that the torps where stored in some sort of compartemens on deck and that the where manually moved/loaded to below. Is that right? How did it work?

For me it seems that reloading in a storm is a very risky project....:hmm:

/VV

[Sailor Steve]

That's one of the places where the game is messed up; it does let you reload 1-ton torpedoes from the external storage when the weather is too heavy for gun use. Also in bad weather you shouldn't even be able to load the internally-stored torpedoes - it's just too dangerous.

I only reload externals when the weather is dead calm and my boat is at a full stop.

[Mush Martin]

in RL often they would do it with decks awash as it made torpedo
handling much easier and the job go faster.
M

[Jimbuna]

Here's a few scanned photos to give everyone an idea of what such an operation entailed.....I have a few more, and will try to dig them out after I've had a bite to eat :arrgh!:

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8195/img01pz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/413/img02yf3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1668/img003dv3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Wilcke]

Great pictures!:up: That looks like a really miserable operation there. Even in calm seas.

[candy2500]

nice photos jimbuna:up:, looks like they had there hands full loading them torps.

[vodkavera]

Very nice photos jimbuna. :up:
That really gives an idea how it was and nothing that was done in hard weather.

/VV

[Jimbuna]

Decks Awash

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8502/img006fk3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7636/img004lf1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8932/img005dk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Skubber]

I just have it as a personal rule that I do not load externals unless seas are calm, and i do not load internals on the surface in very bad weather.

Also, if I am attacked mid-way through loading an external, I consider my u-boat unable to submerge. So I tend to not even try to load these if I am in a hot spot for enemy warships.

[K-61]

I also play by this honour rule, not loading external reserves unless the seas are reasonably still. My last patrol I came back to port with my stern external reserve still in its canister, as the weather was miserable all the way back to port. I've never been jumped yet while moving externals, but other players have reported that if they are jumped, they consider this torpedo abandoned in the haste to dive and make a point of not using it.

External torpedoes were stored below the deck plates in a watertight tube. The normal practice was to wait until the boat was in an area where they weren't likely to be surprised by an aircraft or enemy vessel. As shown in the photos above, it required a type of winch to be erected. In the game, you cannot move your stern external torpedo to the bow, or vice versa, but in real life they could; by tying flotation vests to the torpedo and tying lines to it, it could be floated fore or aft and then taken inside.

[BulSoldier]

I never imagined that internal torps couldnt be loaded in rough weather but reading it now it all makes sense.
Btw how the uboots stored enough fresh food for all the journey ? And did the supply boats had food suplies (probably did) and did they had freezer to store them ?

[K-61]

Thanks, guys. I now have one more honour rule to play by: no reloading internal torpedoes in rough weather. Does make very much sense; those things are heavy and would bob back and forth as they hung from the internal overhead racks. I imagine personal injuries and death could occur from being hit or crushed by a swinging torpedo.

Supply boats [milk cows] carried extra rations, of course, but their main mission was to supply fuel and torpedoes. They also carried doctors and more advanced medical facilities than there was room for on a regular U-boat. A number of sick or injured crewmen from combat subs were transferred to milk cows for treatment or a trip home. I can't recall of them ever carrying freezers; probably wasn't room for them, but I am open to contrary persuasion. The main limitation on the length of a U-boat's patrol was fuel, not food; they'd run low on fuel before running out of food.

[BulSoldier]

I guess it couldnt be avoided(swinging 1.5 ton torpedo).They were actually like small ships.Depth keeping, speed adjustmen(spell?),pistols,power unit, etc...

[Sailor Steve]

I never imagined that internal torps couldnt be loaded in rough weather but reading it now it all makes sense.
Btw how the uboots stored enough fresh food for all the journey ? And did the supply boats had food suplies (probably did) and did they had freezer to store them ?
It's my understanding that they just ate the fresh food first and then started on the canned stuff. U.S. subs had freezers and refrigerators, but I'm pretty sure u-boats didn't.

As for transferring supplies at milk cows and supply ships, that could be done but how many u-boats actually ever had that opportunity? I'm betting that most did a patrol without ever resupplying.

Reloading interal torpedoes in bad weather? I use the the fact that it's a submarine and go deep to reload.:sunny:

[BulSoldier]

I think that XXI had freezer on board. Well i guess the milk cows were quite usable since allies took action in destroying them along with the supplyships.And then all that were laid down to the construction were canceled.

[Thunder]

Fantastic photo's! Havn't seen em before.What book did you get em from?

[K-61]

I think that XXI had freezer on board. Well i guess the milk cows were quite usable since allies took action in destroying them along with the supplyships.And then all that were laid down to the construction were canceled.

The milk cows were extremely useful and thus made the U-boats even more lethal. U-boats at sea could stay on station longer, thus increasing their tonnage sunk per patrol. The milk cows also made it possible for shorter ranged U-boats to hunt further afield. Typically, one third of U-boats were on station, the other two thirds en route to or from patrol or laid up for refitting, repair or training. As the milk cow enabled the one third on station to be even more deadly, they were targeted by the Allies with a very high priority. The main assist to hunting them down was Ultra, the project of decrypting German Enigma coded radio traffic. Reading decoded signals, the Allies were able to determine their operating areas and hunt them down. One by one, all ten were destroyed. As you said, those under construction were cancelled once Doenitz knew the writing was on the wall.

[Jimbuna]

Internals could and were reloaded during rough weather....the boat went deep (50+ metres).
As for food storage, I'll try to remember to post some pictures at the weekend :up:

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfmoon.jpg


http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd320/pasquarade/wolf-38.gif

[Sensekhmet]

A bit of thread necromancy here.
I'm interested in technical stuff, but don't know too much about submarines. So bear with me.
As I see it, the pressure hull is a tube, the rest is just stuck on. Now, for that tube to be the strongest, it should have as few openings/hatches/etc. as possible.
My question is: how exactly were torpedoes loaded? Try not to fall off your chair, but for a long time I thought they were loaded through the tubes, slid backwards into the hull (the fewer openings the better, remember?). Then I saw a movie about ORP Orzel's* escape from Tallinn and there was a scene I clearly remember (the only one unfortunately... I watched it a loooong time ago) when the crew sabotages the disarming operation of the boat. They work a bit on a winch cable, it snaps and a torpedo slids nose forward, at some angle (less than 45 degrees I think), into the hull. So there were additional openings in the pressure hull? I'd very much like to know more about the torpedo loading/handling procedure.

* Orzel class, 'oceanic' submarine bigger than a Type IX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzel

[seafarer]

A bit of thread necromancy here.
I'm interested in technical stuff, but don't know too much about submarines. So bear with me.
As I see it, the pressure hull is a tube, the rest is just stuck on. Now, for that tube to be the strongest, it should have as few openings/hatches/etc. as possible.
My question is: how exactly were torpedoes loaded? Try not to fall off your chair, but for a long time I thought they were loaded through the tubes, slid backwards into the hull (the fewer openings the better, remember?). Then I saw a movie about ORP Orzel's* escape from Tallinn and there was a scene I clearly remember (the only one unfortunately... I watched it a loooong time ago) when the crew sabotages the disarming operation of the boat. They work a bit on a winch cable, it snaps and a torpedo slids nose forward, at some angle (less than 45 degrees I think), into the hull. So there were additional openings in the pressure hull? I'd very much like to know more about the torpedo loading/handling procedure.

* Orzel class, 'oceanic' submarine bigger than a Type IX.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Orzel

There are indeed numerous openings (through hull penetrations) of the pressure hull. The conning tower hatch, forward and aft escape trunks, for and aft torpedo loading hatches, gun ammo chutes, the main engine induction trunk, toilet outlets, engine exhausts, seawater cooling inlets, prop shaft openings, periscope wells, electrical conduits to bridge controls, etc, etc, etc. There's just no way to not have a whole bunch of various sized openings in the pressure hull. These are all reinforced penetrations, but absolutely necessary.

Some Google Book's reading on the subject (http://books.google.com/books?id=cN4cdjU5KTcC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=submarine+hull+penetrations&source=web&ots=8lDa0MAF_B&sig=fPoK00w-gAPC1aOvXdMjH4Ji0rg&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA87,M1)

[sharkbit]

There was a torpedo loading hatch in the main deck, one forward for the bow tubes and one aft for the aft tubes. It was angled and the torpedo slid through the hatch and into the torpedo room.

Link below shows a picture. It is a US sub but the principle is the same. This was the easy one I found. I know there are a ton of pictures of U-boats loading torpedoes out there though

http://wzus.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&c=a&l=dir&o=0&sv=0a30051b&ip=3ffef9ca&id=8FEAF284950B3B5A23745E915AA8A589&q=torpedo+loading&p=1&qs=0&ac=24&g=6e99BrEUf8O%vv&en=te&io=3&ep=&eo=&b=alg&bc=&br=&tp=d&ec=10&pt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usscod.org%2Ftorpload.html&ex=tsrc%3Dtxtx&url=&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usscod.org%2Ftorpload.html

[predavolk]

Nice photos jimbuna! I also agree that internal reloads are quite possible in bad weather so long as you're deep. And I also play by the Honour rule that if I can't use my deck gun, I don't reload my torps. So far, it hasn't been a critical issue, but I have come close to running out of useable torps because of it.

[rifleman13]

So that's how they did it! Thanks for the enlightenment!

New rule:
No external reloads during rough seas!:up:

One question:
In GWX 2.1, the deck and flak guns can still be used in 10 kt winds, why?:hmm:

[Jimbuna]

There are some good pictures here:

http://www.war44.com/forum/u_boats/909-torpedp-pictures.html

[Sensekhmet]

Wow, thanks guys. Seems I remembered the scene right.

[Bosje]

i came upon this video and remembered reading this post, just thought i'd share it with you

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=MLlYyjLOJ3M&feature=related

[Sailor Steve]

One question:
In GWX 2.1, the deck and flak guns can still be used in 10 kt winds, why?:hmm:
In the stock game the restriction is 7 m/s winds, or about 15 knots. This is a relatively calm sea, and in stock looks like a flat calm. Many players complained that they wanted to use the gun in heavier seas. this was especially true of the flak guns mounted on the wintergarden. Someone figured out how to change that to anything right up to the max 15 m/s, but since they are all controlled by the same function you get either one or the other. GWX opts for being able to use the guns in slightly heavier weather.

I use SH3 Commander waves set to x2, so for me it looks a lot rougher. I just don't use the deck gun if I can see waves washing over it. I never use the flak guns anyway, but it's nice to know I can if I have to.

[Red Heat]

Amazing...the full operation it self, to transfer torpedos and man!
Outstanding pics! :D

[Biggs[CV]]

Speaking of resupply......can we resupply torpedoes from the Milk Cows? If so, how do you do it?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Don't feel bad about reloadin torpedoes in bad weather. Destroyers cheat too! What DD in WWII could pick you up on hydrophones after a dc attack? Or pick you up on ASDIC immediately after a dc explosion? It's madness! Or Sparta.......