HMS Hood....too vulnerable?

[TriskettheKid]

Long time no post. GWX 2 got me back into the game, and I'm loving it.

Anyway, I'm loving the fact that there is now a significant challenge to raiding ports (as opposed to the ease I found with the previous GWX). The way the DDs react now is, again, top-notch.

However, I seem to remember the larger ships, like the Renown-class, the HMS Nelson, the HMS Hood, etc., were supposed to be able to eat a lot of torps (sometimes, as I had found that only the largest of ships needed more than one torp to sink).

So I was wondering, without the Enhanced Damage thing included with GWX2, just how vulnerable is the HMS Hood supposed to be?

Upon a recent venture into Scapa Flow, I noticed that it took 3 torps to down her. The first was the only torp from a salvo of 4 to detonate at the appropriate spot magnetically (they were G7a's running at around 12m, one exploded prematurely, two didn't detonate), and the other two were set for impact around around 5m, one hit fore, just forward of the forward ammo bunker, and the other hit aft, about 20m from the rudder.

While waiting for my torps to reload (and dodging the lone DD that was in the area), I noticed that I had gotten a message, a mere 1h 32min after my last torp hit the Hood. So I was wondering, with Realistic Sinking Time on, and with GWX2, just how vulnerable are the bigger ships supposed to be?

Because, my God......if the ships are as vulnerable as they were in previous GWX editions, with the challenges of the vastly improved ASW...........I just may relapse into my GWX addiction.....

[kenijaru]

enhanced dammage is just eyecandy :yep:

also, HMS Hood (for what i've read in the forums here) is known going under with just a few torpedos (2-3)
as HMS Renown is a Battlecruiser (just like HMS Hood) she might be as "fragile" as Hood is.

[Brag]

The other day, Rodney went down with two torpedo hits.

[Stealth Hunter]

King George: 3 Torpedoes to the Bow.

[TriskettheKid]

Hmm.

Well then, I guess the old 1-shot areas should still work for most of the ships. Wonderful!

And, again, WOW, the ASW presents so much more of a challenge now.

AAAAAAAAAARGH! I'm relapsing!

[Tool]

I put 2 torps into the Hood in port (on day 3 of the war no less), and down she went. A 3rd hit just for kicks.. but i'll take the credit.. :)

Tool.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

As kenijaru stated above, the 'GWX - Enhanced Damage Effects' mod, does not alter the actual damage model of the ships. It only alters the visual effects caused by damage.

For matters relating to the actual damage models for the ships in GWX, please refer to the GWX manual.

[Pablo]

Hi!

Three torpedoes (or fewer) could be quite enough to sink a battleship or battle cruiser. From real life:HMS Royal Oak: sunk by 3 torpedoes from U-47 (Prien)
HMS Barham: sunk by 3 torpedoes from U-331 (von Tiesenhausen)
HMS Repulse: 4-5 torpedoes from Japanese bombers.
HMS Queen Elizabeth: sunk by a magnetic mine emplaced by frogmen
HMS Valiant: sunk by a magnetic mine emplaced by frogmen
Conti de Cavour: sunk by one torpedo from a Swordfish torpedo bomber
Pablo

[Cohaagen]

Only two of those listed were at sea and at action stations, though. That makes a far bigger difference than can be quantified in a mere game. QE, Valiant and the Italian ships were all salvaged as were, of course, many of the ships at Pearl Harbour. Hood goes down very easily given the sheer size of her. 48,000 tons is a lot of displaced water.

I've found that people who play a lot of computer sims and tabletop wargames become fixated on armour schemes, belt thickness, hit points, etc., sort of a "Top Trumps Syndrome" whereas real-life matelots and soldiers take a far more human-oriented view of things. They also have a much better understanding of actual effectiveness of weapons systems, as opposed to claimed effectiveness.

King George: 3 Torpedoes to the Bow.

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?

[rik007]

Only two of those listed were at sea and at action stations, though. That makes a far bigger difference than can be quantified in a mere game. QE, Valiant and the Italian ships were all salvaged as were, of course, many of the ships at Pearl Harbour. Hood goes down very easily given the sheer size of her. 48,000 tons is a lot of displaced water.

I've found that people who play a lot of computer sims and tabletop wargames become fixated on armour schemes, belt thickness, hit points, etc., sort of a "Top Trumps Syndrome" whereas real-life matelots and soldiers take a far more human-oriented view of things. They also have a much better understanding of actual effectiveness of weapons systems, as opposed to claimed effectiveness.

King George: 3 Torpedoes to the Bow.

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?

No, I want him to stop and lay still like a duck waiting for my final torp :D

[RedChico]

Only two of those listed were at sea and at action stations, though. That makes a far bigger difference than can be quantified in a mere game. QE, Valiant and the Italian ships were all salvaged as were, of course, many of the ships at Pearl Harbour. Hood goes down very easily given the sheer size of her. 48,000 tons is a lot of displaced water.

I've found that people who play a lot of computer sims and tabletop wargames become fixated on armour schemes, belt thickness, hit points, etc., sort of a "Top Trumps Syndrome" whereas real-life matelots and soldiers take a far more human-oriented view of things. They also have a much better understanding of actual effectiveness of weapons systems, as opposed to claimed effectiveness.

King George: 3 Torpedoes to the Bow.

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?

No, I want him to stop and lay still like a duck waiting for my final torp :D

*BONG BONG BONG*

Jackpot!!!!:lol:

[NealT]

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?

The Captain of the Titanic did...

[danlisa]

@ All

Every ship in GWX still has a critical hit point. It's a very small and hard to find area but it's still there. So a 1 torp kill is still possible but very unlikely, which is the way Von made it.:arrgh!:

[Cohaagen]

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?
The Captain of the Titanic did...
I don't recall the Titanic being hit by any torpedoes. It isn't a particularly good example to use - it's not so much a case of comparing apples and oranges, more like comparing apples and bowling balls. It's also the exact opposite of what actually occurred - one of the first things the First Officer on the Titanic ordered was for engines full astern or all stop, depending on which account you read.

Quite a few ships in WW2 lost their bows to torpedoes or weather. It's much more survivable than you might think, certainly more than when a ship loses its stern. HMS Liverpool, HMCS Saguenay, USS Minneapolis, blah blah

http://www.royalmarinesbands.co.uk/history/historyimages/HMSLiverpool.jpg

[Sigurd]

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?
The Captain of the Titanic did...
I don't recall the Titanic being hit by any torpedoes.
Maybe he means the Lusitania? It was owned by the White Star Line as well, and it was sunk by torpedo.

[TriskettheKid]

@ All

Every ship in GWX still has a critical hit point. It's a very small and hard to find area but it's still there. So a 1 torp kill is still possible but very unlikely, which is the way Von made it.:arrgh!:

Oh, I'm well aware of that.

I think I've sunken pretty much every ship in GWX with a single torp a majority of the time, at least in the earlier releases. I remember the Iowa-class BBs giving me some trouble, but for the most part ships went down with a single shot.

When I snuck in to Loch Ewe once, I found two carriers, four BBs, some cruisers, etc. The cruisers went down with a single shot to the ammo bunker area, but those damned carriers ate all my torps. I got them to sink but only to the point that they got stuck in the mud at the bottom.

What was interesting, and what I'm going to test in GWX2 later, is that pretty much all ships, ALL ships, can be sunk with a single torp while under way in the earlier versions of GWX. A single shot to the stern as close to the props as can be placed will pretty much sink anything that's out at sea.

That ASW sure does make raiding harbors fun, though.

[Sailor Steve]

Do you think a real-life captain, having received three hits to the bow, would continue to order maximum revolutions so as to make the torpedo holes bigger and force even more water into the ship, as they do in SH3?

The Captain of the Titanic did...
Actually, Captain Smith brought Titanic to a full stop.

Shinano, on the other hand, likely sank for that very reason: going to full speed to escape the area after being torpedoed.

[gimpy117]

well...not to be insentive to thesailors that died, but it's the hms hood...it went boom...

[Palidian]

Actually that would depend on the ship. Bismark took quite a pounding, and the Yamato took at least 5 1000lb bombs and 10 18" torp hits.

More modern torp protection is quite effecive, however the Hood did not benifit from that. Nor do the ships you mention.



Hi!

Three torpedoes (or fewer) could be quite enough to sink a battleship or battle cruiser. From real life:HMS Royal Oak: sunk by 3 torpedoes from U-47 (Prien)
HMS Barham: sunk by 3 torpedoes from U-331 (von Tiesenhausen)
HMS Repulse: 4-5 torpedoes from Japanese bombers.
HMS Queen Elizabeth: sunk by a magnetic mine emplaced by frogmen
HMS Valiant: sunk by a magnetic mine emplaced by frogmen
Conti de Cavour: sunk by one torpedo from a Swordfish torpedo bomber
Pablo

[trongey]

...A single shot to the stern as close to the props as can be placed will pretty much sink anything that's out at sea...
I don't know about that. I spotted a tanker the other night, got into good position, and fired two eels from 600yd. The first one hit about 2/3 of the way back, starting a small fire. For fun I hopped into free view and watched #2 literally hit the port screw. Thought it was pretty cool that the screw actually disappeared - didn't think it was too cool that the ship just kept going. The tanker was slowed down a lot, but not sinking, so I crossed his bow and took a stern shot. Must have miscalculated the new speed, becuase I blew off the starboard screw! Two stern hits, one mid-hull hit, and the blasted thing was just sitting there.
Weather was too rough for guns so I had to sit there and watch that tanker bob around until I got my last fish from external storage into stern reserve then load it. I put that one under mid-keel with magnetic trigger and finally sank the stupid thing.
Sadly, in all that time I never noticed that ship was flying stars and stripes. It was May, 1941.:oops:

[TriskettheKid]

Well, I have NO idea if it works in GWX2. I have yet to get in a position to test it out.

However, in the earlier releases of GWX, it was quite possible. I forget if it worked better with impact or magnetic detonators, but it worked. The only problem is that the ship is sunk via flooding, so you have to wait a long time for it to sink.

I've also noticed (again, I haven't tested this in GWX2, yet) that in the earlier relases, the same was true with the bow of the ship. A single shot to the bow of most ships would also doom them, with only the largest of ships possibly needing another torpedo.