Right, where do I start...

[Rotary Crewman]

Finally got round to re-installing IL-2 1946 and had a few goes at trying to safely land a seafire on a carrier after a poor first attempt at a campaign. It ended in a crash as you well expected :down:

So, with that in mind, not only do I need tips, but I also need a list of definative mods that I should be going for.

Thanks in advance

RC

[Biggles]

heh, I can't even take off from a Carrier....

anyway, no mods for IL-2. No legal once at least...(as I learned not too long ago;) )

[Rotary Crewman]

You're joking right?? I imagined there would be a full list of Battle Of Britain campaigns, hitting London with the Blitz, Africa campaigns, Italy...but you're telling me there is nothing??

[Chock]

I've found that a curved approach is not a bad idea with the Seafire, since it is essentially a navalised Spitfire, this is largely akin to a 'proper Spitfire' approach anyway. The Spitfire 'floats' a bit on the flare, so coming in too steep can cause problems anyway, which is another reason to try a flatter, curved approach. Like the real thing, 87mph is the speed to go for during most of the approach, (a bit more than that if the bank angle is steep - remember your stall speed increases with bank angle!). The Spitfire (and Seafire) gives up flying at about 64mph with the flaps and gear down.

I've scanned some of the pages of the real Seafire Pilot's Notes for you, the one in IL-2 flies quite a lot like the real one, so these will probably help. Enjoy:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Spit1-2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/spit2-2.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/spit3-3.jpg

:D Chock

[Dowly]

You're joking right?? I imagined there would be a full list of Battle Of Britain campaigns, hitting London with the Blitz, Africa campaigns, Italy...but you're telling me there is nothing??

There is campaigns, you were asking for mods. ;)

Check here for campaigns:
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&c=2

[CCIP]

Yup, lots of campaigns, and great ones at that :D

If you want some simple tips - well, firstly, watch the training tracks, they have good tips!

One rule I learned and that I think changed my thinking about landings a lot, especially on carriers - when you're on final approach, try to reverse what you might naturally be thinking about controlling speed and altitude: control your altitude by raising and lowering thrust and control your speed by pitching up or down slightly. It sounds weird but it really works. It's actually a lot more complex than that in practice, but once you wrap your mind around how that works it helps develop a feel for flying the thing at close to minimum speed. And landing too :yep:

I actually rarely screw up carrier landings these days. Of course I rarely fly these days too :doh:
(but I don't find it all that problematic when I do fly - just challenging!)

[Reaves]

Ahh the fabled carrier landing.


My advice is similar to others. Learn how to fly the seafire at minum speed, and I do mean minimum, you need to be just short of stalling the thing. Get a nice long run up so you can ensure you are just above the carrier when your about 20 meteres away, then cut the gas and let her sink onto the carrier. Careful though because you don't want to come down too hard, but even that's better than flying off the edge of the landing strip.

[Chock]

control your altitude by raising and lowering thrust and control your speed by pitching up or down slightly. It sounds weird but it really works.

Nothing wierd about that, that's the correct way to fly an aeroplane in normal circumstances. If you ever get taught to fly a Cessna in real life, they teach you that way.

:D Chock

[Rotary Crewman]

Cheers for all the tips guys, will get downloading some Battle Of Britain campaigns and also work on my carrier landings!

RC

[CCIP]

control your altitude by raising and lowering thrust and control your speed by pitching up or down slightly. It sounds weird but it really works.

Nothing wierd about that, that's the correct way to fly an aeroplane in normal circumstances. If you ever get taught to fly a Cessna in real life, they teach you that way.

:D Chock
Yea, but if like a lot of us one starts "flying" in flight sims (especially if, like most, you start with simpler flight games first), you really do get used to pointing your nose up and down all over the place :p

Realistically speaking, I can't see how one can really be sure to land a plane properly without knowing that :)

[Chock]

Yea, but if like a lot of us one starts "flying" in flight sims (especially if, like most, you start with simpler flight games first), you really do get used to pointing your nose up and down all over the place

That's true, I flew flight sims before I flew the real thing, and to be honest, you could still fly a plane by climbing and diving with the stick and using the throttle purely for speed, it just perhaps wouldn't be the most efficient way, which of course is not always the best choice anyway in wartime, I mean, who would care about fuel efficiency when a Messerschmitt's just about to pepper their ass?!

I'd bet most people who fly flight simulators regularly could have a decent crack at getting the real thing on the ground in one piece, I know that it helped me when learning to fly the real thing. You get the 'physical skill' in your fingers from simulations, even if you don't get the feel and the other real world stuff, and you get used to reading altimeters and turn/slip indicators, that kind of thing. So actions such as pushing the stick forward when nearing a stall becomes a conditioned response if you use flight sims a lot, things like that, which is quite useful in transferring to the real world.

Anyway, back on the original topic, and ironically enough, like the real world, there's no substitute for repetition and practise. Slightly off-topic but sort of related, if you are looking to practise flying skills for use on a warbird via Microsoft FSX (which is a good idea), I can certainly recommend an aircraft I have just reviewed for Avsim, that being the Curtiss P-40 from Shockwave Productions. It behaves very much like the real thing and that's good because for a fighter, the P-40 was regarded as remarkably easy to tame in comparison to stuff like the Spitfire and the bf109, and if you are looking for a warbird that is easy to pull off three-point landings in, it's a good choice.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Threepointer.jpg
Greasing a nice three-pointer in the P-40

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Invertedfly-by.jpg
One from the Dowly school of approaches for landing

What has this to do with carrier operations? Well, history buffs will of course know that the Curtiss P-40 was the first US Army aircraft ever to launch from a carrier. Happy landings :up:

:D Chock

[Dowly]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Invertedfly-by.jpg
One from the Dowly school of approaches for landing

Ooh, need to try that. :yep:

[FIREWALL]

You're joking right?? I imagined there would be a full list of Battle Of Britain campaigns, hitting London with the Blitz, Africa campaigns, Italy...but you're telling me there is nothing??

There is campaigns, you were asking for mods. ;)

Check here for campaigns:
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&c=2

I went there and it stated "IL2 Forgotten Battles & Pacific Fighters"

Will these Campains work in IL2 1946 ?

[Dowly]

You're joking right?? I imagined there would be a full list of Battle Of Britain campaigns, hitting London with the Blitz, Africa campaigns, Italy...but you're telling me there is nothing??
There is campaigns, you were asking for mods. ;)

Check here for campaigns:
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&c=2
I went there and it stated "IL2 Forgotten Battles & Pacific Fighters"

Will these Campains work in IL2 1946 ?

There's usually version number too. Like the training campaing I posted to another thread says "4.07+" meaning it works on 4.07 or newer patch.

[XabbaRus]

My first proper sim was MS FlightSim and I remember flying the cessna and it said to use power for descent control and pitch for speed. Then when I went to learn the Learjet the manual said the reverse was true.

Still it helped a lot. One thing I think Il-2 models well is torque. At low speed in descent if you whack on the power too fast you will spin out. Chock is this how it is on a real plane cos it seems right especially the I-16 Rata.

[Chock]

Well, the only ever prop fighter plane I've flown in real life was a two-seater Spitfire (and that was only once, cos it cost me a lot of money to do it - and the guy didn't let me try landing it, although I did do the approach, don't blame him!), so I can't speak for any other fighter plane from real experience, after that it's been Chipmunks, Cessnas and stuff like that for me, and these days I only fly gliders. But I suspect that behaviour you describe is fairly accurate, as whacking the power on with a big powerful engine in a prop plane does two major things which would cause that issue, the first is 'p factor' which is basically asymmetric thrust caused by the fact that the angle of attack of the prop blades becomes different for the blades as they go around in a circle, making the thrust line go off to one side, the other is the airflow spiraling back down the fuselage as it is thrown back from the propeller and striking one side of the tailfin more than the other, shifting the tail around. Thus you get a massive yaw.

I imagine that would be a problem on the Polikarpov, because it has a short tailboom, and if that started swinging it would be difficult for the rudder to overcome things since the short tailboom would mean it has rudder authority that might be limited in extreme circumstances.

If both of these issues (p factor and asymmetric thrust hitting the tailfin) affected things in the same direction, then you're going to get a big swing on, and in some aeroplanes where the centre of gravity is quite far back, that can cause problems if you don't stop it early, because then you'll be fighting the momentum of the rear fuselage swinging (this is the chief cause of ground loops). The issue was a big problem on the Messerschmitt bf109 when it had full fuel on board, because it had the fuel tank behind the pilot's seat (putting the centre of gravity well back), and is one of the main reasons for all the ones that got lost in take-off accidents, as they would get a swing on and still be slow, making the rudder ineffective because of the lack of airflow over it at low speeds. Then the landing gear would break off because it was basically held on with sticky tape and a couple of tiny bolts on the bf109 :-)

The other issue is when you get a big yaw on, the fuselage effectively blocks the airflow to the inner part of the wing on the side you are yawing towards, because your momentum will still be carrying you forward and for a few seconds, that means you'll be flying sideways, and if that happens when you're right above the stall speed, one of your wings is suddenly not going to have enough lift to keep flying, and that means you'll go into a spin, as one wing keeps flying and the other gives up, hence you spin like a sycamore leaf dropping down from a tree. That's why you apply rudder to come out of a spin rather than aileron, because you have to yaw the 'dead' wing back into the airflow.

Incidentally, all this stuff is actually a lot easier to handle in a real aeroplane than it is in a simulated one, because you get much more feedback from the thing and you tend to not push things as much in a real plane anyway, because if things go tits up on a real one, you die. Although I must admit, I do really love spinning in the real thing, it's the best fairground ride you'll ever go on :-) That's why I prefer gliders, they are usually stressed for quite a lot of G.

:D Chock

[FIREWALL]

Thx Dowly

I guess I'll have to look more closely at them.

Boy this stuff can get confuseing. :doh: :D

[Steel_Tomb]

:huh: YOU'VE FLOWN A SPIT!?!?!?! I'M GREEN WITH ENVY!

It would my DREAM come true to fly a spit, hell I'd settle for just sitting in one! :cry:

[Chock]

As far as I know, all the (two seater) Spits in the UK, with the possible exception of Caroline Grace's, are not certified for public transport, but there are moves to try and change this, so if you really want a trip in one, make your view known here:

http://www.flights4all.com/challenge10k.asp

This is a problem for a lot of airfields actually, although some places I know do get around the rules by offering 'trial lessons', which technically are not pleasure flights, but it's bending the rules a bit!

Incidentally, you'd be looking at well over a grand for a short flight.

:D Chock