Take one minute to think about this

[Skybird]

...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,523810,00.html

Thank you.

[Tchocky]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?

[SUBMAN1]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?My thoughts exactly. What is the current statistic? Last i checked, approximately 2.5 million crimes are stopped annually in the US due to armed civilians. Give the damn guards a gun already.

-S

[joea]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?My thoughts exactly. What is the current statistic? Last i checked, approximately 2.5 million crimes are stopped annually in the US due to armed civilians. Give the damn guards a gun already.

-S

Did you read the story Subman?? :doh:

[Zachstar]

Are there not shelters? I do not buy any BS from homeless people when there are shelters out there.

He stole he needs to be jailed. That was my final colclusion after a min of thought.

[August]

My first thought is if the athiests had their way and gotten all nativity scenes banned that old guy would likely have frozen to death....

[SUBMAN1]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?My thoughts exactly. What is the current statistic? Last i checked, approximately 2.5 million crimes are stopped annually in the US due to armed civilians. Give the damn guards a gun already.

-S
Did you read the story Subman?? :doh:Yes - the guy stole the garmets from the display. What is there to read?

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Are there not shelters? I do not buy any BS from homeless people when there are shelters out there.

He stole he needs to be jailed. That was my final colclusion after a min of thought.My thoughts too.

[SUBMAN1]

Are there not shelters? I do not buy any BS from homeless people when there are shelters out there.

He stole he needs to be jailed. That was my final colclusion after a min of thought.
Maybe there aren't enough shelters to house everyone. I don't know much about Germany but maybe they need to spend more money on their less fortunate citizens. We all need a hand from time to time.Stealing is stealing. It is not yours, don't take it. It is not the fault of the owners that this man doesn't have a place to sleep. Maybe he should try asking next time. I'm sure he would get support then.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

I just started here at Subsim.com, and I don't want to make anyone angry with me but, the arcticle says that he borrowed the clothing.Can i borrow your car? :D Oh wait! I forgot I didn't have to ask!

-S

[DeepIron]

"Are there no workhouses? Are the treadmills not in operation?"

"Yes, they are. Though I wish I could say they were not."

"Good. I thought something might have stopped them in their useful course."

[SUBMAN1]

Don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for the mans plight, but I also think he should have asked. To just take and use is stealing. No other way for me to look at it.

-S

[Tchocky]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?My thoughts exactly. What is the current statistic? Last i checked, approximately 2.5 million crimes are stopped annually in the US due to armed civilians. Give the damn guards a gun already.

-S
Auntie Em, Auntie Em! I got a bite!

[SUBMAN1]

Auntie Em, Auntie Em! I got a bite!I know! And now you're dropping my topic! I wanted to hijack the thread! :D

-S

[Letum]

Pfft, typical. If the security guards had been armed this would never have happened. Whatever happened to property rights?My thoughts exactly. What is the current statistic? Last i checked, approximately 2.5 million crimes are stopped annually in the US due to armed civilians. Give the damn guards a gun already.

-S Auntie Em, Auntie Em! I got a bite!

:rotfl:Hook line and sinker!

[Tchocky]

My first thought is if the athiests had their way and gotten all nativity scenes banned that old guy would likely have frozen to death....
I think he's used to sleeping rough, one night without borrowed robes won't kill him. Or then again, it might. Whatever way we look at it, it's the secular-progressives who wanted him dead. Dead at Christmas.

[Skybird]

the little girl in this fairy-tale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Match_Girl
was forbidden to lighten even a single match she was told to sell on the street in deep cold winter. Since she nevertheless did in despair, her death serves her well - I must conclude from some of the poor comments above.

The next day, pedestrians finding her were very sorry before turning away and moving on. - the proud uprightness of citizens considering themselves to be pillars of community. just that they did not nee matches the day before - sorry girl, bad luck, nothing personal.

A law that does not allow to see beyond the mere letters of it, is no law, but the worst and most inhumane tyranny ever summoned upon mankind. I think some of you guys - thankfully not all - missed the basic point the original report was about. and if you can't figure it out yourself, it will be your loss - but explaining to you would be a waste of time. Answers are worthless if people do not see the questions before. Moralists have been the most hard-heartened and inhumane people throughout history, because they consider themselves to be without guilt indeed, and thus think they earned the right to throw the first stone. Such people can become the most inhumane and brutal, all in the name of the letter of the law, and calling that justice. But the head needs the heart, and where the heart is missing, law replaces justice, and penalty is spoken not in the name of justice - but for your own sensational satisfaction.

---

and August,

My first thought is if the athiests had their way and gotten all nativity scenes banned that old guy would likely have frozen to death....
I still wait to meet the first Buddhist demanding the end of christmas celebrations. I also still wait to meet the first non-Buddhist atheist demanding that our children must be protected from the terrible danger of christmas time. the stress, the hype, the business-making - what was it with Jesus kicking the traders and money-changers out of the temple? It certainly would be nice if that hysteric commerce party gets reduced to reasonable levels again. I am working in a warehouse - I have seen the madness from close range for weeks now, again. It has nothing to do with the original idea of christmas for those seeing a religious meaning in it, and it also has nothing to do with the meaning of families moving together and visiting friends and the kids having a time of promises and wonders. It is buy-buy-buy, and that's it. It's digging for gold only, profit hunting. And from year to year it becomes more anti-religious, more profane, more kitschig, more hectic, more hysteric. So tell me, in how far is the christmas time of the world you defend ideologically, so superior to atheism? why don't you lament against the excessive consumming and the commerce and business perverting the meaning of christmas, instead of sidekicking against people you do not understand, do not wish to understand, and that do raise no hand to end christmas at all - becasue by the inner nature of atheism, they do not care for the religious meaning of religious festivities?

And still you said: "the" atheists...? "their" will...? You are not trying to contribute to a Feindbild standing for an enemy you do not know much about, don't you, and whom you only attack because he does not share your precious belief dogmas and points you to your own inner contradictions and deficits...

Or is it maybe just me that makes you snapping, like a dog snaps for a bone almost by unconditioned reflex... No-no, can't be...

[SUBMAN1]

Probably the most pathetic statment I have read yet from Skybird. All i see is atheist demanding that Christmas be canceled. Yet, one Atheist pretends this is not happening.

Skybirds fantasy land continues.

-S

[CCIP]

Ay carumba. I'm enjoying this Skybird thread more than I could be. Sometimes I'm sad people don't really read Skybird's posts, but I'm often even more sad reading them myself.

Seriously, first the Russians, now Atheists. Someone LOVES dreaming up enemies, cause for some reason you just need to have them all around. :hmm:

[Skybird]

Probably the most pathetic statment I have read yet from Skybird. All i see is atheist demanding that Christmas be canceled. Yet, one Atheist pretends this is not happening.

That is because you think you can see in all directions simultaneoulsy with your million-lensed facette eyes - but only one lens operating. Careful - wall ahead!

[SUBMAN1]

Ay carumba. I'm enjoying this Skybird thread more than I could be. Sometimes I'm sad people don't really read Skybird's posts, but I'm often even more sad reading them myself.

Seriously, first the Russians, now Atheists. Someone LOVES dreaming up enemies, cause for some reason you just need to have them all around. :hmm:Hmm, I wish I made this stuff up, but Google is your friend. See how many attacks there are on Christmas.

While you're at it, want not search on bomber flights from Russia to US territory.

Better yet, quit burying your head in the sand.

-S

[Skybird]

Ay carumba. I'm enjoying this Skybird thread more than I could be. Sometimes I'm sad people don't really read Skybird's posts, but I'm often even more sad reading them myself.

Seriously, first the Russians, now Atheists. Someone LOVES dreaming up enemies, cause for some reason you just need to have them all around. :hmm:
It's because being confused of one's own identity. If you do not know who you are, you must define yourself by defining whom you not are. This then works as a negative that provides you with a positive of what you think you are. And this then coagulates into a dogma of your identity that lets you be without understandinf or the other, and lets's you fight against him most determined - but still not knowing whom you really are. where you feel the vaccum inside of you, you fill and cover it up with fantasies that turn into dogmas. the more dogmatic you are, the more virtuous you are. the more more virtuous you are, the more just you are.

The less you know about yourself - the more virtuous you are...? :hmm: Justice - without knowing man - neither the other, nor yourself...?:hmm:

[Chock]

So where are we up to now? the US is preventing the Russians from overflying the little match girl because they think she might steal a coat because of her war on Cold, and they've picked up some angels on radar, no wait a minute, erm no that's not right..

:D Chock

[Tchocky]

Probably the most pathetic statment I have read yet from Skybird. All i see is atheist demanding that Christmas be canceled. Yet, one Atheist pretends this is not happening.

Skybirds fantasy land continues.

-S There's more than one statement in his post, that should be rather obvious.
There's only one in yours, though.

Regardless of subject matter or personal opinions, shouting down well-considered and thoughtful posts with "pathetic...fantasy land" isn't very constructive.
Neither is Avon's tactic of crying that someone has their head in the sand.
I quite regret my first post now.

[SUBMAN1]

Uhmm excuse me? Show me proof otherise? It is easy to find the opposite, but hard to say it is not happening.

And trust me Skybird, I have an identity, and I know Who I am. Unlike you, that flip flop on issues to push some agenda through. You must look in the mirror my friend.

-S

[August]

Or is it maybe just me that makes you snapping, like a dog snaps for a bone almost by unconditioned reflex... No-no, can't be...

Naw, think of it more like me tossing a fishing line in the water and you snapping it up hook line and sinker like a big old trout.

But hold the phone, did I read you right that you work in a *warehouse* Skybird? :D

All this time you've portrayed yourself as a psychologist/diplomat/philosopher/ninja swordsman and it turns out you're just a blue collar schmoe? That is freaking rich! :lol:

[Tchocky]

Wow, we lose one waste gate, then we get two more.


:dead:

[Chock]

Wow, we lose one waste gate, then we get two more.
And the balance of the Subsim universe is restored grasshopper (cue bamboo flute music)

:D Chock

[Tchocky]

Wow, we lose one waste gate, then we get two more.
And the balance of the Subsim universe is restored grasshopper

:D Chock

*contemplates "even keel" pun*

*passes*

[SUBMAN1]

*contemplates "even keel" pun*

*passes*

Forgive me for not conforming to your distorted view of the world. I like to live in reality. :D

-S

[Skybird]

Or is it maybe just me that makes you snapping, like a dog snaps for a bone almost by unconditioned reflex... No-no, can't be...

Naw, think of it more like me tossing a fishing line in the water and you snapping it up hook line and sinker like a big old trout.

But hold the phone, did I read you right that you work in a *warehouse* Skybird? :D

All this time you've portrayed yourself as a psychologist/diplomat/philosopher/ninja swordsman and it turns out you're just a blue collar schmoe? That is freaking rich! :lol:
Yes, a part time job in a warehouse (Kaufhaus). People know that since years. They also know that I gave up psychology for practical reasons and unbridgable differences with the institution'S dogmas, and that I worked for free in cooperation with a hospital which then turned into a complete meditation group with no more people from hosptial attending, until I gave it up after some years and the thing growing bigger than I wished it to be. In a multi-semestre practition time I worked with and for dying people at hospitals, and I also had time in a closed psychiatry. You can assume in all safety that I know why I did not choose to follow the trail of contemporary psychology for all my life. I have worked (for free again) in several free social work services run by the church (!) since then, and in earlier years participated in therapy projects for torture victims from the Balkans as well. I also worked in a factory, several depot halls (Lagerhalle), as cook in a cheap restaurant, as waiter, as salesman, and for one single opportunity as a bodyguard. Then I had a short intermezzo as trainer with a local security company but caused a training accident that almost killed a trainee, that threw me a bit off track back then, and on my travellings I also workd in the security field for foreign correspondet teams from the West, shooting a docu in the ME.

Whats your point, if you have any? All that is very old news, being told here sionce years. I have come around a bit. Anything wrong with that? You can safely assume that I can afford to live the way I live my life. Else I wouldn't do it.

Oh, and I never did Ninja stuff. I did swordfighting, and martial arts, yes. I even learned how to decently handle a bow. But ninjatsu I never claimed to have done, nowhere - and Ninjatsu is much, much more than just these three.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

How does that story show the need for arming security forces?

[Skybird]

How does that story show the need for arming security forces?
Have you seen this thread?
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127167
It's about a girl with a broken car, reaching home, finding his boyfriend in bed with another one, and being bitterly dissapointed and sad and down. the male counselor giving advise talks about the motor problem exclusively.

The same joke is happening here. there is a story told about the two very different perspectives the rich and the poor have when seeing all those christmas sceneries, and how obscene it is in a way, that what we consider to be there for our plaisir, for some is nothinging funny, luxurious and entertaining at all, but a needed tool to fight for surviving a cold night.

Christian law and order addicts will ignore it all and instead immediately will lecture you about the letter of the law, and the need for penalty. "Christians" walk upright, you know, with the nose high up in the air - at least some of the carricatures of true, honest, self-righteous Christians that live on this board.

Now that for once is funny a joke, isn't it. ;)

[kiwi_2005]

My first thought was that the 53 year-old was given an opportunity to survive the cold night.

Same here. I dont blame him for taking those clothes to keep himself warm. He never hurt anyone.

[mrbeast]

Probably the most pathetic statment I have read yet from Skybird. All i see is atheist demanding that Christmas be canceled. Yet, one Atheist pretends this is not happening.

Skybirds fantasy land continues.

-S

Its funny SUBMAN, but I have never seen any serious attempt, by this mysterious atheist axis that you keep mentioning, to ban Christmas. All I can see is your reactionalry responses to anything that doesn't fit with your narrow world view.

Also suggesting that freezing vagrants be gunned down for trying to keep warm is not what I would call a very Christian attitude.

[kiwi_2005]

[
Yes, a part time job in a warehouse (Kaufhaus). People know that since years. They also know that I gave up psychology for practical reasons and unbridgable differences with the institution'S dogmas, and that I worked for free in cooperation with a hospital which then turned into a complete meditation group with no more people from hosptial attending, until I gave it up after some years and the thing growing bigger than I wished it to be. In a multi-semestre practition time I worked with and for dying people at hospitals, and I also had time in a closed psychiatry. You can assume in all safety that I know why I did not choose to follow the trail of contemporary psychology for all my life. I have worked (for free again) in several free social work services run by the church (!) since then, and in earlier years participated in therapy projects for torture victims from the Balkans as well. I also worked in a factory, several depot halls (Lagerhalle), as cook in a cheap restaurant, as waiter, as salesman, and for one single opportunity as a bodyguard. Then I had a short intermezzo as trainer with a local security company but caused a training accident that almost killed a trainee, that threw me a bit off track back then, and on my travellings I also workd in the security field for foreign correspondet teams from the West, shooting a docu in the ME.

Whats your point, if you have any? All that is very old news, being told here sionce years. I have come around a bit. Anything wrong with that? You can safely assume that I can afford to live the way I live my life. Else I wouldn't do it.

Oh, and I never did Ninja stuff. I did swordfighting, and martial arts, yes. I even learned how to decently handle a bow. But ninjatsu I never claimed to have done, nowhere - and Ninjatsu is much, much more than just these three.

wow! your achieved alot in your life and heres me thinking you were just a psychologist :) How do you handle doing work for free, i use to do alot of that, we call it voluntary work yet i stopped cause i found people just take you for granted all they want out of you is more more more until you burn out then its oh sry about that and they wait for the next fool to come along. Thats just going from my experience i mostly got alot of enjoyment out of it but i also got alot of stress. Now i avoid it like the plague.

[Zachstar]

Subman... What is wrong with you?

[Skybird]

wow! your achieved alot in your life and heres me thinking you were just a psychologist :) How do you handle doing work for free, i use to do alot of that, we call it voluntary work yet i stopped cause i found people just take you for granted all they want out of you is more more more until you burn out then its oh sry about that and they wait for the next fool to come along. Thats just going from my experience i mostly got alot of enjoyment out of it but i also got alot of stress. Now i avoid it like the plague.

It is a dilemma that you correctly identified, I found out especially with the meditation groups I ran for several years, all in all around 300 people, plus/minus 50, I assume. The one thing I really demanded was a certain kind of dicispline, or: regularity. But doing my "service" for free helped an attitude of "Oh, it is free, okay, I have nothing to loose, let'S start it, and if I do not like one day, or have plans, I pass." Whereas I know that it is important to have a regular scheme, a regular pattern that helps to create a safe haven in your weekls and daily time table where you know nobody can reach into, that rests unmoved like a rock in the surf, that stays no matter what dramas and stress and hectic life is throwing at you, and that you need to defend against all demands adressed to you (real emergencies exlcuded, of course, but not everything somebody claims is an emergncy, is an emergency indeed). Especially for beginners this is importan, and very much so.

But if you do it for money, you (at least in my case) may feel something is wrong and you may loose interest for what you are doing, na din this special case I wpuld think of it like wanting to tax people for breathing air: meditation is your own most natural basic right, it bases on your very own basic ressoruces, and it leads you to your very own fulfillment eventually, that again is part of your most basic rights in this life. nothing is hidden from you, and nothing that would be opwned by anybody who then would have the right to sell it to you. Also, if you nevertheless demand a payment, people again change their attitude "He takes my money, so I can demand somethign from him. Hey you, i payed the price you wanted, now show me something. Do something exciting. Where is the fancy stuff?" -

Expectations - that is the problem here, and no matter how you deal with it, they interfere.

My answer was this:

I tried to keep the groups constant, only slowly changing, and not surpassing a certain size that was small enough that I could take maximum care of every single individual. I asked everybody to contribute to a fund that was used only and exclusively to pay heating, light, and rent for the hall. the box was of glass, any anybody could see what was in there. I pinned the bills close to it, so that everybody knew how much still was needed. Somehow, the money needed always came together, sometimes with occaisonal small presents and gifts, like a small miniature, or some special food. I made no income from it that group servciing, and so it was not much money for the individual to pay.

And I allowed interested people to stay for reasons of curisosity and "testing" wether or not it was what they were looking for, for only 2-4 weeks - then I demanded them to make an obligatory decision to leave or to stay. If they stayed, they would have had me in their neck if they jumped off, or did not come with regularity. Did not happen often, though.

I also did not allow anyone to stay for longer than around two years. If they had not experienced (=learned) anything in that time that would help them to show up with the discipline needed to continue without having me in their neck :lol:, then I probably would have been the wrong teacher anyway, and they better find another one. After all I never would claim to be a master of any kind - only a teacher. If they wanted to come to the place I stood at and share the perspective on the world that I enjoyed from there, I could only describe them the easisest way that I had found to reach there. If they wanted to move to another location, and higher to look farther, I eventually could only point a direction or upwards and tell them that i do not know the way, but that they should search for chances over there - not more.

Also, the meaning of meditation is not to make it an everlasting home of comfort to simply relax and avoid the world and the noise and the stress. Ideally, it's side effect is not to teach you to avoid the world and the life and their noise and dirt and stress and hectic, but to approach all this in an unmoved state of mind and unshaken emotional calm, which is the precondition for true freedom of acting, and a peaceful mind.

Well, that has been my way to adress the problem you pointed at. When the thing nevertheless developed in size and direction that I could no longer guarantee not to violate my own principles and pay maximum attention for the individual, I knew I had reached my limits, and closed it down in an act of emerency-breaking. Others may have other, maybe even better solutions to run the show and deal with the problem at the end, but I can only act according to what I know for sure by my own, immediate, direct experience - everything else, or acting without experience and on the basis of hear-say and book-reading only would be irresponsible, and mean towards man.

The jobs for voluntary social work (that I did not for overly long) for the local church community was coming from my wish at that time to do at least something, and by receiving assistance from my slowly growing friendship with a Christian monk, with whom I had many friendly and fruitfuil debates where we found out that our views on things came under different names, but with many shared similiarities in opinion, and that we both were very critical of the traditial churche's role and dogma. He also was everything but a holy saint - in fact a very tough guy, strong, and full of energy, and a boasting voice. Preaching to people in kind and calm words was not his thing, instead he waited for them to ask, and meanwhile lend a hand where needed and tackled problems head-on. No comparison with the pastors and priests I remember from my youth and childhood at the rare occasions I visited a church service, and their strange and annoying mildness in their voice, and dumb smiles, always. This guy was even cursing at times! :D and immediately after, all anger was blown away. Cursing is healthy, I honestly believe. It helps not to store your anger inside yourself, and becoming ill from it.

The monastery has been shut and deconstructed about one year ago. To see it lying in rubble gave me a sting.

[Chock]

I think it's outrageous that anyone would suggest shooting someone for taking a coat from a nativity display to keep warm. Everyone knows it would be far more cost effective to simply place land mines around it.

That one was for the benefit of those who see a star rising in the East and automatically assume it's a Tu-95 coming over the horizon:rotfl:

:D Chock

[August]

Christian law and order addicts will ignore it all and instead immediately will lecture you about the letter of the law, and the need for penalty. "Christians" walk upright, you know, with the nose high up in the air - at least some of the carricatures of true, honest, self-righteous Christians that live on this board.

Now that for once is funny a joke, isn't it. ;)

I didn't lecture about the letter of the law, or the need for a penalty, yet I am a Christian. Guess that sort of blows your theory....

[Chock]

the meditation groups I ran for several years, all in all around 300 people, plus/minus 50, I assume. The one thing I really demanded was a certain kind of dicispline
I can just see that: 'On the command three, you WILL relax! One, two... wait for it... wait for it! I DEMAND DISCIPLINE! THREEEEEEE!':rotfl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF4QALVjPf8

Sorry Skybird, I'm only joking, it just put that picture in my head the way you phrased it.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

the meditation groups I ran for several years, all in all around 300 people, plus/minus 50, I assume. The one thing I really demanded was a certain kind of dicispline
I can just see that: 'On the command three, you WILL relax! One, two... wait for it... wait for it! I DEMAND DISCIPLINE! THREEEEEEE!':rotfl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF4QALVjPf8

Sorry Skybird, I'm only joking, it just put that picture in my head the way you phrased it.

:D Chock
:lol: sure, I already figured that out. Maybe "dedicated attitude" to do the things with regularity would be a better description. but you probably got the idea anyway. Nothing is to be gained, but all is to be found. that cannot be actively acchieved, but only passively received. It's not so much about doing the right things, but giving up doing the wrong things. So, pressure and "disciplined working" is very much useless from the very beginning. You only can help to improve the circumstances, that way making it more likely, maybe, to let go your conditioned habits, and by that giving room to let "enlightenment" happen all by itself, which again is not acchieving something new and different, but only realising what always has been there already, never being different. But that already is a misleading, dualistic conception again, so you better do not wish for "enlightenment" at all. :lol: Language, thinking - always a trap. I should bite a piece of soap, probably. :D

[SUBMAN1]

Subman... What is wrong with you?I guess you need to define the problem first before I can answer your question! :D

-S

[Biggles]

A (what people would call it) "cute" story. He must have known that it wasn't okay to do it, and from what I can gather, he didn't try to defend himself from doing it. Just a man trying to live, that's all.

[Zachstar]

Then he needs to go to a shelter.

[Skybird]

Then he needs to go to a shelter.
Ah.

[DeepIron]

Just a man trying to live, that's all.
That pretty well sums it up. Humans will do just about anything to survive in any given situation. I doubt seriously that he was concerned with the morality of "stealing" or "borrowing" the garments when his survival was at stake.

People have done far, far worse...

[Snodrvr]

Basically I think the situation was handled rather well. The man shouldn't have borrowed the garments without asking, The guards finding the man properly assessed the situation and chose the correct course of action, and the police in realizing that no real damage had been done did the right thing in letting the man go the next morning.

I really don't see the controversy here.

[DeepIron]

The Donner party is the name given to a group of emigrants, including the families of George Donner and his brother Jacob, who became trapped in the Sierra Nevada mountains during the winter of 1846-47. Nearly half of the party died, and some resorted to eating their dead in an effort to survive.

Compared to the more extreme actions of humans in survival situations, such as the Andes and Donner episodes, the homeless man taking clothing to keep warm is a non-issue.

It depends on your perspective...

[Zachstar]

Then he needs to go to a shelter. Ah.

Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?

[DeepIron]

Then he needs to go to a shelter. Ah.
Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?
It's a pointless argument. Unless one has access to information specifically regarding "homeless shelters" in his area, one cannot know with certainty if a shelter was even available or accessable. Besides, the homeless man exercised HIS FREE WILL in what he did. There is no directive that homeless people "must go to a shelter".

And yes, shelters can be bad places. I go to LA once a month and deliver goods to specific places in the southern commercial district. I have met street people and befriended some of them, bought them meals and talked to them. I've asked why they live on the street. A few have answered that it is safer on the street than in some shelters due to the crime and victimization that can occur.

[Zachstar]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

L

O

L

:rotfl:

[DeepIron]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

This whole episode is a "tempest in a teapot". One is forced to accept it because it has already happened. Whether you wish to accept his actions or not, that is your choice.

If however, one wishes to see less of this kind of thing happen again, all one has to do is be part of the solution. Instead of being indignant and judgemental, how about reaching into the pocketbook and donating to a shelter or charity so that those in society who are less fortunate than yourself might have a better option than stealing clothes.

[Zachstar]

Then he needs to go to a shelter. Ah.
Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?
Perhaps there wasn't a shelter available to this unfortunate fellow. I don't know much about the German system but maybe the funding for shelters needs to be re-evaluated so that everyone has access to a shelter. Is there some type of co-payment which the man couldn't pay? Was he intoxicated and the shelter wouldn't take him in? We just don't know the whole story.. only the outcome.

Well here is the thing. Usually in civilized countries there are shelters to aid the homeless and get them back on their feet. Some .gov funded some private (church) this man should have gone to the police and asked for directions to the nearest shelter. If anything they could have atleast given him SOME info about anything or perhaps taken him in on something so they can give him a good rest in safety and a meal before sending him out again. I refuse to believe that there is nothing for these people in Germany.

Again I want proof, Otherwise this man is just stealing and needs to be charged for it.

[Zachstar]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?
This whole episode is a "tempest in a teapot". One is forced to accept it because it has already happened. Whether you wish to accept his actions or not, that is your choice.

If however, one wishes to see less of this kind of thing happen again, all one has to do is be part of the solution. Instead of being indignant and judgemental, how about reaching into the pocketbook and donating to a shelter or charity so that those in society who are less fortunate than yourself might have a better option than stealing clothes.

Because my money is better spent supporting fusion development so that we can take the oil question out of of the economic situation so that maybe this man can find a newly formed job when the economy soars and housing prices become more reasonable.

I am about long term solutions. Yet I expect that the people who came before me set long term solutions as well with these shelter funds.

So no I am not going to be part of such a stupid solution. The shelter program exists and it ought to be used today. Fusion to give more jobs tommorow. Then whatever is needed after that.

I will speak for myself saying that if there is truely no way to get to the shelter and the local police have turned me away. Then I would rather die in the cold with my honor than steal and make some bullcrap excuse about it.

[Zachstar]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?
This whole episode is a "tempest in a teapot". One is forced to accept it because it has already happened. Whether you wish to accept his actions or not, that is your choice.

If however, one wishes to see less of this kind of thing happen again, all one has to do is be part of the solution. Instead of being indignant and judgemental, how about reaching into the pocketbook and donating to a shelter or charity so that those in society who are less fortunate than yourself might have a better option than stealing clothes.
I was thinking the same thing. Would we be discussing this if the poor soul had died from the cold? he'd just be another statistic. Thank goodness the clothing was available.

If he had died in the cold without stealing then he dosent have to face another day of the horrid world of no shelters or help that supposedly yall seem to be making this out to be.

Obviously that is bullcrap because there are shelters until there is direct proof that there are none.

[Tchocky]

I will speak for myself saying that if there is truely no way to get to the shelter and the local police have turned me away. Then I would rather die in the cold with my honor than steal and make some bullcrap excuse about it. Have you ever been in such a situation, or is this heroic conjecture?
If it's the first, fair enough.
If it's the second, get down off the cross. Someone else needs the wood.

[Zachstar]

Well thank you for that lovely bit. Just so you know that at the rate things are going with my life I will likely be homeless in a few months. Yet I plan to go to a SHELTER and if I can't reach one then I will go to the POLICE and ask them to point me to one.

If I have to be on the street then I will do so with honor and hope for my future. I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement.

[Tchocky]

If I have to be on the street then I will do so with honor and hope for my future. I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement. You are still hypothesising, but then again, so am I. Not everyone shares your...terminal morality.
This man obviously didn't, and even if it takes us a generation to scrape together the dry-cleaning on those blankets I am sure that we, as a planet, can survive.

[Zachstar]

Breaking down of civilization happens from the small things.

Being homeless is never NEVER an excuse.You do not steal! You stay on the move. Doing what you can to get work, to find shelter, to survive.

What this man did was wrong. Supporting him is wrong and bad for society. Demanding solutions (Shelter and info + communitcation as shelter so this person can find work so that he can get an apartment) Is the way to go.

There have been many cases in the past where dirt broke homeless people in the past have found their way and lived a happy life afterwards. There is no excuse for society to not encourage that through more jobs and shelter programs.

My support is on the technology to get the jobs and fix this problem long term. Many others support the shelters as well as .gov programs to aid them. There is a shelter somewhere in Germany and mostly likely within police car traveling distance. I refuse to believe there isnt and I have not been shown proof there isnt yet.

[Skybird]

Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not?
quite a lot of preassumptions on your side, eh? You seem to know more about the story's event than even we over here, and the author of the article, and the police.

On paper it all is nice and well, you know. Just that in practice and reality - things often look very different, more complex, more difficult.

I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement.
Crystal clear. But you will steal at one time, my friend. Your misery just needs to be big enough. If you are up to decide wether to steal something to eat, or start the third week in sequence with nothing to bite and red circles before your eyes, and you don't obey your human nature at that point, you would be a stupid.

And let'S see what has come of your values once you had been 10 years a homeless, and being treated like a non-existing nothing by people - at best.

Maybe a shelter was not available. maybe it had closing hour already gone by. Maybe he did not know where to search. Maybe he already was too cold. Or had lost all hope. Or had fear, was ashamed, was afraid. Or was mentally derranged, or drank too much alcohol to stay warm. Or he was too hopeless or stubborn or to proud to ask for help - homeless people get looked down on all day long - if being looked at at all. Maybe his life has been like that since too long. There are a million reasons possible why this guy not headed for a shelter. And only a computer's processing can prove to be unable to understand these, and stick to nill-one-logic only.

Of a human witnesses, of course some more than just logic must be expected. Because what else makes humans human, and different to primitive animals reflex-automatisms?

You expect to be homeless yourself soon. But that is a description with many facettes and possible fates behind the label. As long as your socks and the skin and nails of your feet have not grown together so that only a doctor with a scalpel can seperate the two and in the process must remove greater parts of your feet's skin and upper layers of flesh since the textile has been grown into the flesh and in parts is totally surrounded by it, as long as you do not know how ashamed people can be to accept medical treatment for free because they know they haven't changed underwear since one and a half year or more, you can talk easy about the dignity in being a homeless.

Stop expecting people to behave like computers. Man is man, not some piece of digital logic-code always following the rule of what is "reasonable". Everybody working in any social-oriented profession or job, knows that, from the hospital-doctor to the streetworker. Where they do not learn this, they fail in their jobs miserably. and people only acting by the law of reason - are capable of the most cruel and inhumance crimes imaginable.

In the end I get the imprssion that some of the things that got said in this thread, are only to avoid any irritation reagrding the tools and means of luxurious christmas - by rationalising an individual's unwelcomed fate away. for the religious crowd here, christmas marks the birthday of the Christ, that is the major point in it - not the marketing show the muppets made of it. So see if you can bring your grim fingerpointing regarding this homeless man into conformity with what Christ has taught regarding "love thy next like you love thyself" and what he lived by his own example when sitting together with the pariahs of society of his time when having a meal. After all, he is your religious icon, so the obligation is with you - for me he only was a wise mind like many others, and I am free to agree with him or not. So think of it and see if you are in conformity with him when you act by cold reason only and demand the law's full range to rule over the suffering (deserved or not) of a fallen man - or sink christmas altogether. That at least would be honest by you, then. Those of you being without guilt - throw the first stone. Ideally at christmas day - that would be the best of all timings.

[StdDev]

Zackstar.. are you in earnest?
I am not belitteling your viewpoint (I dont agree with it) but this all sounds too much like a character we all have heard of...
Well here is the thing. Usually in civilized countries there are shelters to aid the homeless and get them back on their feet. Some .gov funded some private (church) this man should have gone to the police and asked for directions to the nearest shelter.
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."

Because my money is better spent supporting fusion development so that we can take the oil question out of of the economic situation so that maybe this man can find a newly formed job when the economy soars and housing prices become more reasonable.
Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas, and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there."

I will speak for myself saying that if there is truely no way to get to the shelter and the local police have turned me away. Then I would rather die in the cold with my honor than steal and make some bullcrap excuse about it.
If he had died in the cold without stealing then he dosent have to face another day of the horrid world of no shelters or help that supposedly yall seem to be making this out to be.

"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. ... It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"


A lot of simalarities...

Anyways.. the man took a jacket and a snappy hat.. probably to save his life... but that too can be argued..
I dont know the stats for German "homeless" condition, but they are probably close to as they are here.. and probably everywhere....
Many homeless people have psychological issues.. ie many of them dont have a full load upstairs.
It is very likely that he can not make these rational descisions on what is right and wrong or noble vs immoral.. he was cold and needed some relief of that condition.

[TteFAboB]

The mother of a friend has been feeding and assisting homeless people every single day, for decades now, even as she enters into her 90's. You just have to find the needle in the haystack.

Of course you don't have to steal to feed yourself, unless you're in North Korea. Skybird's hypothetical scenario of going three weeks without food is absurd. If a homeless guy spent his days ringing door bell by door bell begging for food he will get food before three weeks go by. Or winter clothes. A few more weeks and he may find a job, even if only a pretext to justify monetary aid.

[DeepIron]

@StdDev... :lol: excellent analogy and comparison.

Being homeless is never NEVER an excuse.You do not steal! You stay on the move. Doing what you can to get work, to find shelter, to survive.
Pointless answer because you'll probaby never be faced with the same decision... and you just contradicted yourself "... to survive."

He did what he needed to survive.

In Anchorage, where I used to live, the homeless people would go downtown to the city center where the Christmas Tree was located. They would pull strings of lights from the branches and stuff them under their coats to keep warm through the night. In the morning, they placed the strings of lights back on the tree. I worked at radio station across the street and saw this with my own eyes.

I guess, applying Zackstar's argument, they should have been arrested for stealing electricity...

[Fish]

Are there not shelters? I do not buy any BS from homeless people when there are shelters out there.

He stole he needs to be jailed. That was my final colclusion after a min of thought.
Maybe there aren't enough shelters to house everyone. I don't know much about Germany but maybe they need to spend more money on their less fortunate citizens. We all need a hand from time to time.Stealing is stealing. It is not yours, don't take it. It is not the fault of the owners that this man doesn't have a place to sleep. Maybe he should try asking next time. I'm sure he would get support then.

-S

I just started here at Subsim.com, and I don't want to make anyone angry with me but, the arcticle says that he borrowed the clothing.

Spook, some of the regulars here shoot first and never ask questions.
Do not steal there threads. :shifty:

[StdDev]

@StdDev... :lol: excellent analogy and comparison.


Actually DIron.. it was your first post that brought this to my attention.. I could tell it was tongue in cheek when you posted.. but Zackstar's post .. well it is not apparent that he is joking.. but it is such a close adherence to the Dickens script that it could well be a put on.

Oh well.. another thing that comes to my mind is.. why did Skyboid post this in the first place.. was he angling? :-?

God bless us... every one! :up:

[StdDev]

It certainly was not my intention to steel a thread. Some(Chock, August) have told me that it was OK to voice my opinion. If I stepped on anyones toes I apologize and will rethink my participation here.

Spooka.. dont fret bout it none.. The "steal the thread" remark sounded pretty "tongue in cheek" to me..
Ya gotta remember.. most these guys are not quite serious when they post (Skybird is major exception!).. and Chock.. he is above "tongue in cheek".. he is all the way up to "sarcastic bastige" :rock: (thats why I like reading Chocks posts!! :) )

You will come to learn.. sarcasm is an ART FORM!! :yep:

[Fish]

Probably the most pathetic statment I have read yet from Skybird. All i see is atheist demanding that Christmas be canceled. Yet, one Atheist pretends this is not happening.

Skybirds fantasy land continues.

-S

Me and my family, 10 atheists, like christmas, no problem. :yep: Time to get together.
We have Sint Nicolaas here too, 5 december. Al atheist (61 % in the Netherlands) have a great time then, giving presents.

[StdDev]

Ya gotta remember.. most these guys are not quite serious when they post (Skybird is major exception!).. Why is this?

Well it's hard to say.. Skybird just seems a fairly serious person.. maybe it's because he has a harder time detecting irony/sarcasm because English is not his native language.. then again maybe he is just more serious.

@ Skybird.. hey.. your English is infinitely better than my Deutsch..
Ich meinte kein Vergehen!

[Fish]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

L

O

L

:rotfl:

You know the guy? Perhaps he is a simple person. Try to be human.

[Fish]

[and will rethink my participation here.

Please stay, people like you are very welcome. :up:

[DeepIron]

@Spooka 2: hey dude, just get in there and throw punches like the rest of us... :up:
Sometimes it's serious, sometimes it't not... after you get to know the regular denizens of this swamp, you'll be able to tell when and which... no worries... :lol:

[StdDev]

I am a bit spooked (play on words:rotfl:) about this skybird guy. Is he that bad?

Skybird isnt bad.. he is just..ummm.. well.. he is just Skybird! :yep:
There is no one to be afraid of on these boards.. specially if you run into that miscreant Neal... guy acts like he owns the joint.... oh wait.....

[Fish]

I am a bit spooked (play on words:rotfl:) about this skybird guy. Is he that bad?

No, he isn't, just read some of his posts. It will take some time but it's worthy. ;)

[DeepIron]

specially if you run into that miscreant Neal... guy acts like he owns the joint.... oh wait.....

He does... just for clarification. Neal is the Big Kahuna and those so foolish as to mess up his mojo get consigned to THE BRIG.

[StdDev]

Remember Spooka.. sarcasm is an ART FORM! :D

Neal.. we worship the people you walk on!!!!!!

[Skybird]

Ya gotta remember.. most these guys are not quite serious when they post (Skybird is major exception!).. Why is this?

Well it's hard to say.. Skybird just seems a fairly serious person.. maybe it's because he has a harder time detecting irony/sarcasm because English is not his native language.. then again maybe he is just more serious.

@ Skybird.. hey.. your English is infinitely better than my Deutsch..
Ich meinte kein Vergehen!

So I should take Skybird seriously. OK I can do that. I do like the sence of humor that I have seen here at Subsim.com. This is an example of a very fun time
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127015

What a comedy sketch.:D :D :rotfl: I laughed very hard. I will keep a look out for Skybird. Thank you StdDev.

Cheers
sp2
This is the big black boogey man speaking. Boogey man actually understands humour, and likes to laugh a lot, and has a strong sense for even black humour and some sarcasm as well, but - there is always a "but" you see - some people use humour a.) for toning down hot threads, which is okay, or b.) not for making fun, but to personally hurt or discredit other people if they find themselves having run out of arguments and now try to use volume where subtelty or content was not sufficient to make others beloieve like they believe themselves. That is the time when these people start to describe me as being "serious" and not understanding "humour" when they misbehave themselves. Sometimes we better agree to disagree instead of using tricks and cheats.

Nothing wrong with your start here, post your opinion on topics, if you feel like it, and try to leave it to argument when it is a debate, else have fun. That way, personal collisions usually should not happen. After some time you will have learned to differ the noisemakers form the guys you can have a decent talk with, no matter the theme.


So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

L

O

L

:rotfl:

You know the guy? Perhaps he is a simple person. Try to be human.
Or better try to be more human than human - try to be Nexus-6!




I won't go to the Skybird or this neal guys threads. Thank you all for the warning.

Both things will prove to be difficult, but for very different reasons. :lol: :rotfl:

Poor guy. Anyone remembering the running joke in Private Ryan: "What is it about this FUBAR thing?" :-j

[StdDev]

Waitaminit thar pardner...
to personally hurt or discredit other people if they find themselves having run out of arguments and now try to use volume where subtelty or content was not sufficient to make others beloieve like they believe themselves. That is the time when these people start to describe me as being "serious" and not understanding "humour"
Are you sayin that I try to hurt people?
While its true that I accuse you of being "serious".. I did not mean it as an attack..
"Serious" is not the same as "A**hole", or "Dumba**"
"Serious" is OK!... seriously!

[Skybird]

Waitaminit thar pardner...
to personally hurt or discredit other people if they find themselves having run out of arguments and now try to use volume where subtelty or content was not sufficient to make others beloieve like they believe themselves. That is the time when these people start to describe me as being "serious" and not understanding "humour"
Are you sayin that I try to hurt people?
While its true that I accuse you of being "serious".. I did not mean it as an attack..
"Serious" is not the same as "A**hole", or "Dumba**"
"Serious" is OK!... seriously!
Hey, are you the navel of this thread!? :-j we haven't talked to each other since months, so no: it was not you on my mind, but some others. ;)

[joea]

Wow! I see what you mean StdDev. :nope:

No, they are joking with each other! :lol:

[Skybird]

Wow! I see what you mean StdDev. :nope:

No, they are joking with each other! :lol:
Yep, that's true, and I think that StdDev will agree - serious! :lol:

[StdDev]

Yes Yes Yes.. I agree I agree!!!!!
please dont beat me no mo ;)

[Zachstar]

Ah yes I have seen that movie (The older one right after reading the book) many a time and thank you for the wonderful comparason! I accept it fully! I support the things that get the poor back on their feet (fusion being the main)

Oh and please stop showing your stupidity and start showing some basic respect. It's Zachstar not Zack Zackster or Zackstar. Get it right fools.

Hey Neal or whoever else has the power to do so. Can I have the custom title of Mr. Scrooge? Since the bleeding hearts seem to want to compare me to such lately I think it is fitting just to do it proper.

Dispite your weird attempts to paint me as some sort of scumbag who hates the poor why don't you do a tad bit of research first?

I support breaking up the unions the vile groups that steal the economy away from so many of my generation. My friends that will exit college to find the good paying jobs can no longer afford to hire because of union demands. The outrageous actions of the union while on strike showing people of serious mental instability. The problems for the economy. Yes I want that GONE.

I support real programs to help people get back on their feet. Home development programs that quickly build houses and give the keys to the poor allowing families that got hit hard to recover and live happy lives again. Also the job programs that use the power of computers to quickly educate and train people to get into jobs they can build up from.

I support the development of fusion. The real solution that will lift us from the vile death that is oil and deliver us into a new economy that will help everyone. Jobs will rise so fast and demand for workforce grow so much that there will be basicly no excuse to be homeless. The REAL solution. The LONG TERM solution.

[Zachstar]

Prove to me that this man had no access to a shelter. DO NOT post crap about how shelters are bad places. Do they provide the basic means of survival or not? quite a lot of preassumptions on your side, eh? You seem to know more about the story's event than even we over here, and the author of the article, and the police.

On paper it all is nice and well, you know. Just that in practice and reality - things often look very different, more complex, more difficult.

Just give me the proof and stop with the sillyness please.

I will NEVER steal. Therefore I am in the clear to make such a statement. Crystal clear. But you will steal at one time, my friend. Your misery just needs to be big enough. If you are up to decide wether to steal something to eat, or start the third week in sequence with nothing to bite and red circles before your eyes, and you don't obey your human nature at that point, you would be a stupid.

Please do me a favor and never assume anything about me again. No misery is enough to tear away the values my family holds dear. NEVER! So take your crap elseware.

And let'S see what has come of your values once you had been 10 years a homeless, and being treated like a non-existing nothing by people - at best.

Just the same as they are today. Your silly attempt to paint a future is meaningless.

Maybe a shelter was not available. maybe it had closing hour already gone by. Maybe he did not know where to search. Maybe he already was too cold. Or had lost all hope. Or had fear, was ashamed, was afraid. Or was mentally derranged, or drank too much alcohol to stay warm. Or he was too hopeless or stubborn or to proud to ask for help - homeless people get looked down on all day long - if being looked at at all. Maybe his life has been like that since too long. There are a million reasons possible why this guy not headed for a shelter. And only a computer's processing can prove to be unable to understand these, and stick to nill-one-logic only.

Prove it... Show me proof he could not have gained help. Otherwise your silly post means little

Of a human witnesses, of course some more than just logic must be expected. Because what else makes humans human, and different to primitive animals reflex-automatisms?

Help is not allowing them to break the law. Help is developing fusion. Help is building the housing. Help is pointing them to shelters.

Theft is Theft please take off the bleeding heart shades for a moment.

You expect to be homeless yourself soon. But that is a description with many facettes and possible fates behind the label. As long as your socks and the skin and nails of your feet have not grown together so that only a doctor with a scalpel can seperate the two and in the process must remove greater parts of your feet's skin and upper layers of flesh since the textile has been grown into the flesh and in parts is totally surrounded by it, as long as you do not know how ashamed people can be to accept medical treatment for free because they know they haven't changed underwear since one and a half year or more, you can talk easy about the dignity in being a homeless.
What the hell is wrong with you? Please go seek help.

Stop expecting people to behave like computers. Man is man, not some piece of digital logic-code always following the rule of what is "reasonable". Everybody working in any social-oriented profession or job, knows that, from the hospital-doctor to the streetworker. Where they do not learn this, they fail in their jobs miserably. and people only acting by the law of reason - are capable of the most cruel and inhumance crimes imaginable.

Stop letting people break the law. When you allow one to break the law it weakens the system. This is the reason I am against unenforceable laws such as drug laws.


In the end I get the imprssion that some of the things that got said in this thread, are only to avoid any irritation reagrding the tools and means of luxurious christmas - by rationalising an individual's unwelcomed fate away. for the religious crowd here, christmas marks the birthday of the Christ, that is the major point in it - not the marketing show the muppets made of it. So see if you can bring your grim fingerpointing regarding this homeless man into conformity with what Christ has taught regarding "love thy next like you love thyself" and what he lived by his own example when sitting together with the pariahs of society of his time when having a meal. After all, he is your religious icon, so the obligation is with you - for me he only was a wise mind like many others, and I am free to agree with him or not. So think of it and see if you are in conformity with him when you act by cold reason only and demand the law's full range to rule over the suffering (deserved or not) of a fallen man - or sink christmas altogether. That at least would be honest by you, then. Those of you being without guilt - throw the first stone. Ideally at christmas day - that would be the best of all timings.
NICE TRY! Too bad you assume that my view of religion clouds my judgement. Too bad I am not very religious (I believe in god and his son. I believe his son came down to help us advance from our dark ways at the time and move on)

I can only apologize for I know you thought that was the perfect MK-50 to drop from your bleeding heart Helicoper. To bad it ended up being a slow and weak one unable to catch me off guard.

[Zachstar]

So in his "Free Will" he steals and we are supposed to accept it?

L

O

L

:rotfl:
You know the guy? Perhaps he is a simple person. Try to be human.

I am human. I want this man to make it IN THE END. I think long term. Not bleeding heart short term. He needs to go to a shelter if there is none then somthing is seriously messed up over there. But first you have to PROVE IT!

[SUBMAN1]

Perfect answers Zachstar. :up:

-S

[Letum]

No misery is enough to tear away the values my family holds dear. NEVER! So take your crap elseware.
In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do
not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other
members of this forum or their achivements.

it is not hard to disagree without losing your manners.

[Reaves]

I don't know about your countries but over here there simply is no excuse to be homeless. The reason we have them is because they've given up on life and don't try anymore or have a mental illness and have fallen through the cracks in the system.


Pitty them yes, feel sorry for them? No.

[Zachstar]

Agreed! And I see no reason why Germany ought to be different.

[Zachstar]

No misery is enough to tear away the values my family holds dear. NEVER! So take your crap elseware.
In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do
not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other
members of this forum or their achivements.

it is not hard to disagree without losing your manners.

Nice try. Good that you try to make small potatoes into big ones.

Respect for the law and the privacy and property of people is the value here. Not how I treat sillyness. Take your crap elseware.

[Letum]

No misery is enough to tear away the values my family holds dear. NEVER! So take your crap elseware.
In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do
not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other
members of this forum or their achivements.

it is not hard to disagree without losing your manners.
Nice try. Good that you try to make small potatoes into big ones.

Respect for the law and the privacy and property of people is the value here. Not how I treat sillyness. Take your crap elseware.

For all you know I agree with your points in this topic.

The following I do not agree with:

The use of patronising phrases such as "nice try" or "I can only apologize"
Calling other forum members "fools"
Saying that other people's opinions are "silly", "meaningless" and "crap"
Belittling the achievements of Swifty in a unduly harsh manner
Telling people to go "elsewhere"
and telling people to "go seek help"


You come across as being thoroughly rude.

[DeepIron]

In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other members of this forum or their achivements.
Letum, you'll have to excuse him for his lack of manners. He's from Texas...

[Zachstar]

In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other members of this forum or their achivements.
Letum, you'll have to excuse him for his lack of manners. He's from Texas...

I dare you to say that to Neal.

You sound very discrimitory to me therefore no respect to you!

Get help man! In the meantime do some reasearch and take your crap elseware.

[Reaves]

In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other members of this forum or their achivements.
Letum, you'll have to excuse him for his lack of manners. He's from Texas...

Neal's gonna git you fer dat one!

Translation: Neal, being a texan will not be happy at your comment and may seek retribution. :)

[DeepIron]

Oh great, now I'm gonna get it... I apologise to the other Texans on this forum who show respect and forum etiquette... I let my ire get the better of me. :damn:

You sound very discrimitory to me therefore no respect to you! Dude, like I care if YOU give me the time of day. I totally agree with Letum.

BTW, the "take your crap elsewhere" phrase is wearing out. Got any new ones to offend people with?

[Reaves]

:rotfl::rotfl:

/throws water on thread


Calm down peoples!

[Zachstar]

Oh great, now I'm gonna get it... :damn:
You need to. You outright made a stupid and discrimitory comment. I assume you think I am chewing on some wheat and live on a ranch don't you?

[Letum]

Irony: Spelling "research" incorrectly when telling some one to do some.

[DeepIron]

I assume you think I am chewing on some wheat and live on a ranch don't you?
Nope. I DO know wheat farmers and cattle ranchers who are more literate, educated and pleasant than you however. Your not even close.

[Zachstar]

Very funny Iron! Nice cover for your discrimitory attitude!

You know I knew people in the past who diddn't consider me very pleasant when I refused to smoke pot with them because I respected the law and of course the smell made me sick so I left in a hurry.

That gosh darn law thing. Always getting in the way on being pleasant. :rotfl: Note: That was a joke I do respect the law and the process to get laws change when they don't work unlike others who want to be bleeding hearts and feel they are above the law yet refuse to do the civil duty to orgranize and protest legally to get it removed.

So yes when it comes to this I wont be very pleasant. Sorry that I am not the bleeding heart that wants to give rice to people in africa instead of OLPC laptops that can actually save their children from the hardships they have to endure now. Sorry that I think this man ought to be jailed and charged so he can spend some time getting ready to get a job so he can get his life together again. Or make plans to reach the nearest shelter.

Perhaps I care more about the FUTURE of the human race than the stupidity of this pre-fusion age.

[DeepIron]

Nice cover for your discrimitory attitude!
Thanks! I try.

Perhaps I care more about the FUTURE of the human race than the stupidity of this pre-fusion age.
Well, you can hold your lofty ideals up on high until The Final Trump for all I care. But until you learn compassion and respect for people, the individuals like the homeless man in this thread, who comprise the Human Race, you know, the stupid pre-fusion Human Race, you'll never "get it".

So while the rest of us "bleeding hearts" continue to work in the "gray areas" of life, where there are no absolutes and people act each according to his or her need, you stick to your "black and white" world. If your type is the future, what a sad future it will be.

[Zachstar]

Sad future?! Are you insane?

Cars that run hundreds of miles for a dollar worth of overnight charge.

Ultility bills that cost little more than the staff needed to maintain the systems.
Terrorism defunded when there is little demand for oil. Even plastics are starting to be made from alternative sources.

Many jobs opening up when people can actually afford to run their buisnesses now. More demand for work insures less homelessness.

Computers that are close to 20-40GHZ over many cores. SH10 ought to be one hell of a sim!

Only a fool would think that is a sad future.

[StdDev]

I assume you think I am chewing on some wheat and live on a ranch don't you?
Nope. I DO know wheat farmers and cattle ranchers who are more literate, educated and pleasant than you however. Your not even close.

Ah.. but the fact that you know people who are more literate, educated, etc., is an artifact of your discriminatory attitude!
See it all comes down to you discriminating between people who can carry on a civil conversation and those that seem to have a problem discriminating their arse from a hole in the ground.

But dont worry too much about it DIron... fusion will fix it http://www.sfvsf.org/images/anim/adrian.gif

[Zachstar]

Very funny. Nice how yall go for the insults when you can no longer push your bleeding heart views all over me.

I think this topic is done. Everyone's views is known and I doubt there is anything that really needs to be said here.

[Reaves]

But I haven't finished my popcorn yet! :cry:

[Zachstar]

But I haven't finished my popcorn yet! :cry:

Don't eat the unpoped stuff. Nasty taste it gives. :damn:

[DeepIron]

@StdDev... LOL! Needed a good laugh! :lol:

Only a fool would think that is a sad future. I've been thought of as worse... :up:

I think this topic is done. Everyone's views is known and I doubt there is anything that really needs to be said here.
Really? We're just supposed to stop commenting because YOU think this topic is done? Get a clue Zack, people don't march to your drum just because you are beating it the loudest... Homeless people don't go to shelters just because YOU think they should, fusion won't save the world just because YOU think it should.

[Zachstar]

It's Zachstar not Zack

[Onkel Neal]

In both this thread, the the one by swifty about his sub (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=127210), I notice that your values do not include even the most basic manners, courtesy, humility of respect towards other members of this forum or their achivements.
Letum, you'll have to excuse him for his lack of manners. He's from Texas...

I dare you to say that to Neal.



I've heard worse ;)

Anyway, let's head to the punch bowl and cool off a smidgin. If this thread gets out of control, I'm shutting this forum down and replacing it with a Neopets trainer guide. :arrgh!:

[Zachstar]

Neopets still exist? :o

[Reaves]

I'm shutting this forum down and replacing it with a Neopets trainer guide. :arrgh!:


Oh wouldn't it be dreamy!

[DeepIron]

Gads, not the NEOPETS TRAINERS GUIDE! I hear and obey, Big Kahuna!

[Zachstar]

Hey Neal. These people here seem to think I am Mr. Scrooge. You think you can set my title to such and give me an avatar from either that movie or the one disney made with that duck scrooge?

[Reaves]

Hey Neal. These people here seem to think I am Mr. Scrooge. You think you can set my title to such and give me an avatar from either that movie or the one disney made with that duck scrooge?


Feel free to donate. :up:

[Zachstar]

Bah Humbug!

[Letum]

I don't know about your countries but over here there simply is no excuse to be homeless. The reason we have them is because they've given up on life and don't try anymore or have a mental illness and have fallen through the cracks in the system.


Pitty them yes, feel sorry for them? No.
I wonder if Sailor Steve will comment on this topic. :hmm:
Not so long ago that he was homeless.