Detectable Visual Range? and more questions

[Laconic]

Hello all,

This is my first real sim game since the old Red Baron days, so the learning curve is really kicking my butt right now. I'm getting the hang of the manual aiming system, but the problem I'm having right now is not knowing when to dive to start an attack run. I tend to do it too early and either get outrun by my target or run out of battery power before I'm close enough to attack. How long can I remain surfaced to maximize speed and power? Is it a true "I see you, you see me" system? And what speeds are recommended once I do submerge? The tutorial missions have me believing that if I approach at anything faster than Ahead Slow I will be detected.

Also, are opening and closing tube doors audible? How should I spend my crew promotions?

Thanks.

[tomoose]

Laconic;
the one thing this game makes you do if you want good results is have patience. Don't necessarily make a beeline to the target as soon as it's spotted. Figure out where he's going, keep him at a distance(i.e. you're not detected), use your map, plot a route and do the old "end-around" (i.e. hit the gas, go out way ahead of his expected route and then turn, dive and sit and wait for him to come to you and cross your bow). Yes it takes a while but it adds great satisfaction when your plan comes together and they walk into your trap.

I don't believe the tube doors opening are detectable in the game so don't worry about that.

Ref the promotions, they are a dime a dozen after each mission so you can promote just about anybody (the crewmember is highlighted if he's eligible). The stock game is way too liberal with the promotions. Just remember that a promotion will increase the overall ability of the section the crewmember is in so choose accordingly. I concentrate on my Engine and Torpedo sections first.

[Laconic]

Thanks!

[howler93]

Laconic,

Welcome to Subsim! Concerning your visual range question, I typically try to stay 10nm away from the lead contact during the day, and around 5nm at night. I'm sure you can get closer, but these are the general guidelines I use. Tomoose's advice is right on as well- concerning your approach. As far as crew recommendations, I like to ensure a solid damage control team, as well as high marks for my radar/hydrophone guys. I figure the better they are at detecting targets, the more successful my patrols will be.

Best of luck, and good hunting,
Howler :arrgh!:

[Laconic]

How should I select a damage control team? I assume some crew members are better than others, but how can you tell?

Also, the manual seems to think that I can at least refuel at any port as long as it's not in enemy hands, but there's no indicator on the map as to what affiliation ports are. (I'm assuming that a "port" is just a named city on a map, not necessarily one of the US's naval bases marked by the anchor icon.) Is that correct? I tried approaching Shanghai to refuel, assuming that it was still in neutral Chinese hands, but I found a hornet's nest of enemy air activity before I got close enough to tell.

[howler93]

A good damage control team would have a crew with high skills in Mechanical and Electrical. Try to get a good leadership man to head the team. As far as refueling, I believe you can only refuel at American or Austrailian bases (marked with an anchor).

Hope this helps,

Howler :arrgh!:

[mookiemookie]

This is one area where I feel the game is lacking. According to reports I've read, boats could get as close as 1500-2000 yards without being seen, assuming optimal weather, moon and sea state conditions.

[tomoose]

Laconic;
if you place your cursor over the crew member you'll see a pop-up with a bunch of stats each one a "rating" of a number out of a total of 100. Use this as a guide to determine where he'd best be employed. For example, if I wanted a good gunner I'd check the roster (in port) and see which guys have high gunnery skills (i.e. gun rating stat = 50/100 or higher). Same logic for damage control team, I'll try and get guys with Mechanical/Electrical = ??/100 where the ?? is a high number therefore a high skill level.
The green bar next to each "team" increases with the amount of skill in that team.
This will also increase (I believe) as you gain experience (and survive) your patrols.
:up:

PS; during a mission, if one the guys gets injured (i.e. the AA gunner) and shows pink I'll scan the crew and try and find someone else who has decent gunnery stats and switch them. This keeps a decent guy on the guns plus hopefully lets the "injured" gunner recover.

[Laconic]

Thanks, all.

I've got a few more questions...are major naval engagements rendered in the campaign? I got a notifier telling me the Battle of the Coral Sea was about to begin, so I high-tailed it to the area in which it historically took place and I didn't see anything but a destroyer and a couple of gun boats, apparently on routine patrol.

And how dangerous is it to use active sonar pings? I've noticed that merchants don't react much at all, while destroyers tend to immediately come looking for me (not entirely disadvantageous, as I can get a clean shot at the bow at least).

[tomoose]

I haven't come across any naval battles so far but I haven't gone looking either. If I get one of those messages but I'm not anywhere near the action I stick to my original mission.

Sonar pings dangerous? With destroyers around you betcha! If you are trying to sneak in on a target and destroyers are around, using your sonar to ping a target is the equivalent of announcing "HERE I AM!!!" LOL. If you're hiding in a pitch black room and you know someone is also in the room (with a large baseball bat full of nails) looking for you in order to kill you, would you shout or make any unnecessary noise and give away your position even though they can't see you?;) I don't think so.

If the merchants are alone however, using the sonar to ping a range from them, in my experience, does not cause them to react and can be used effectively and safely. Having said that, I wouldn't actively ping as a habit but only if necessary.:ping:

[-Pv-]

Very good advice from everyone here. Successful attacks are relatively easy without pinging the targets, but if you are wanting to use it, make sure you're close enough that no one can attack you or get away between pinging and getting well-aimed fish off the rails. This is true in modern warfare also. When I'm in Dangerous Waters, it's ping-fire, ping-fire, RUN!

Trying to join an historical battle is very hit and miss. Mostly miss. I've given up and just ignore all those messages and go on with my mission.
-Pv-

[Powerthighs]

I believe in the game your active sonar will not be detected by enemy warships. So whether you use it while they are around depends on if you want to be realistic or not. In real life you wouldn't.

Campaign Mods like RSRD and tater's campaign layers to a much better job of modeling historical battles than stock.

[Laconic]

Well, I got my wish. I installed RSRD and promptly ran into what could only be a Borneo invasion task force...maybe 10 to 12 warships screening a nice line of fat ducklings, including a troop transport and a tanker. I sank the transport, but now the surface is literally crawling with destroyers. What are the tactics for evading such a frenzy? Right now I'm trying to sneak off at about 3 kn and a depth of about 100' above the marked crush line, but they are definitely following me and peppering my course with depth charges (none of which have hit, thankfully).

[tomoose]

For what it's worth, if I have no damage I have no hesitation in going to the crush depth (red needle) and a bit more if necessary with no detrimental effects. Depth is your friend particularly if you can get a couple of thermal layers above you. Again, patience is the key. Always try to minimize your profile to the 'hunter' (difficult when you have a pack of them on your butt!).
I try to use the depth charge explosions as cover and increase speed during all that noise and cut back to 1/3rd when I think the depth charges are done. That's a pure judgement call as the Captain. If I know a destroyer has got my number on a run I'll hit the gas as he's coming in, noise be damned! ;)
Keep changing course but remember at 1/3 speed course changes take time and pick a general direction away from the convoy etc to try and increase the gap as much as possible.
Above all, patience, patience, patience and try to stay deep and quiet.:up:

[DrBeast]

I try to use the depth charge explosions as cover and increase speed during all that noise and cut back to 1/3rd when I think the depth charges are done. That's a pure judgement call as the Captain. If I know a destroyer has got my number on a run I'll hit the gas as he's coming in, noise be damned! ;)
Uhm...according to reliable sources (Ducimus or tater or someone else with a deep understanding of the game's mechanics), depth charges hitting the water or going off do NOT mask your sub's noise. Just a heads-up there.
Silent Running works wonders with masking your sub's noise. In a test scenario I had created, an Elite Destroyer would pick up my engine's noise at roughly 2500 meters in calm seas when I was cruising towards him at periscope depth at Ahead 1/3 speed. That distance was reduced to a whooping 200 meters at the same weather conditions, depth and speed, but with Silent Running on! :huh: These stats are subject to change in stock/TMaru/Other Mods That Mess With Sensors cases of course, but the difference, I think, will still be quite dramatic.
Above all, patience, patience, patience and try to stay deep and quiet.:up: What he said ;)

[tomoose]

DrBeast;
I know the technique worked in SH3 so assumed it works in SH4 but am not surprised that SH4 is modelled differently. I do it anyway if only to gain distance during the DC attack, it's worked so far (fingers are crossed BTW, LOL).;)

[DrBeast]

It's good for avoiding those explosive cans headed your way, that's for certain. Don't go overboard with the fingers crossed thingy though, or you won't be able to push any buttons or operate the mouse! :lol:

Now that I mentioned that test scenario, I wonder what effect Silent Running will have on the other Speed settings...if only the game wouldn't take forever and a century to load on my antiquated rig, I'd test it out here and now!

[DavyJonesFootlocker]

I found the best way to boldly attack a target is during heavy fog conditions. Surprisingly no one noticed my presence and two destroyers were mere metres away. I used my deck gun and got them both. Funny they didn't even fire back. Perhaps this is a game oversight or a bug? This is the first time I actually welcome a bug.:D

[-Pv-]

"...depth charges hitting the water or going off do NOT mask your sub's noise...."

I have not seen any eveidence in my playing this technique does not work. I've gotten away from several determined attacks by going into a high speed turn while the charges were going off with no sign the attackers detected my freight train and followed my new tack. It usually gives me just the opening I need to continue to creep away in a new direction the escorts are not prosecuting as fully.

I also want to mention (since speed was mentioned above) that 1/3 and silent is not your only choise for reducing noise. You can go much slower and quieter. If you are not damaged, turn off Battle Stations and Damage Control and you'll be even quieter. I've never had to go anywhere near crush depth yet in my current campaign spanning two years now and I've gotten away from everyone with only minor damage.
-Pv-

[Laconic]

I foolishly tried a cowboy attack on a convoy...I sank all the escorts and then hunted down the merchants one by one, but I got my boat shot to pieces in the process, to the point that they scrapped it and stuck me in a Porpoise instead. I've read that you can "retire" in the game, and I assume that means that your performance is so bad that they remove you from command. Do stunts like sailing back to port in a piece of floating swiss cheese count against you? (But hey...at least I can hand out those Purple Hearts I've been holding onto.)