GWX: getting credit for sinking before the actual sinking

[Jay]

I've encountered several instances in GWX (1.03 and 2.0) when all of the indicators of having sunk a ship are present, but the "victim" remains afloat.

E.g., I torpedoed a ship, and at 20:16 the Navigation Officer exclaimed "She's going down!" Although the ship still was afloat, the symbol for a sunken ship appeared on the navigation map, and the captain's log had an entry showing the sinking time as 20:16. While the ship could be seen through the UZO, I couldn't lock on to it (suggesting that the ship no longer existed). It wasn't until 20:21 that the ship actually slipped beneath the waves.

My recollection is that in the stock SHIII, there is no record of a sinking (in the captain's log, on the navigation map, etc.) until a ship actually has gone down. Why is GWX different in this respect?

[K-61]

I can't speak for the GWX team, but I'll make an educated guess on my own behalf. There is a point at which the ship is still afloat and thus technically still a target and for this reason remains lockable in the UZO, etc. At some point, it reaches the point of no return, where it is beginning the permanent slide and from which there is no recovery. At that point, though it is still visible, the fat lady will definitely be singing. At this point there is no doubt and it is removed from play, even though the graphics still remain. Incidentally, if you use free view, you can watch it sink and settle on the ocean floor, but eventually it will despawn. I've done this and it is something weird to see; one moment the ship is sitting there, leaking bubbles, then poof! it is gone. I think the game utilizes a rendering routine for a sinking vessel in order to make this aspect of the game both realistic and visually pleasing.

[VipertheSniper]

On the other hand if you put a torpedo in the bow of a destroyer I've seen some of them being already way up in the air with their stern (in an angle as much as 30°) before I get an actual message that the ship is going down, although it has already 10 seconds before reached the point of no return.

[rogorogo]

my wild guess (as I have encountered the same).
It is as said before a few posts up.
Because of the damage model ("flooding" and hitpoint system), a unit in some cases will be regarded by the game´s logic as "destroyed" even though the unit ist still on the surface.
You might have noticed, that in those cases the unit is not making way any more (only gliding to a stop), the "machines" are not working any more, gunfire has ceased.
I think, there even is a thread somewhere in the mod section, where this has been explained by the gwx guys, but I can´t find it right now.
The "bow up" destroyers on the other hand are still firing and making way, and can stay that way for quite a long time, but then, gunfire and the screws will stop at the same time, and the unit will "unlock" (thus being "destroyed") just as they are going down.
Same way, but other way round with the "stern up" destroyers, some units (warships and merchants) will go down with screws still turning or even ram themselves to their graves (bowshots, speed and/or heavy weather) an will only be list as sunk, when they are quite some way down (because of the damage models features).
The immersion message "she´s going down" is triggered by the "destroyed" status of the unit, and actually has nothing to do whith wheter the unit is acutally sinking, dead burning on the surface, or blowing up and/or sinking" (fe in the german version, "she´s going down" always is "wir haben sie" (we´ve got her),
And let´s not forget, stock sh3 is super buggy, and without an SDK it is a wonder, that gwx ever was possible to be achieved on such a level, as well as all the other heavier mods (effects, sound, exhaust, scratch ship models, damage model...).

[i_b_spectre]

Those instance may balance out those occasions when you don't get credit for holing a ship because SH3 thinks it sank from simple flooding. I've encountered situations where I torpedoed the ship, watched it slip beneath the surface, got credit for the kill, but the red sunken ship icon is not visible on the chart. Go figure :shifty:

The ones that cause me the most consternation are the "bobbing sinkers". I've only experienced this in multiplayer, but you've got a ship that's 90%+ underwater and it appears to about to roll over and slip under, only to keep bobbing back upright. It's like a Monty Python "it's only a flesh wound" ship. These things, if they are gun equipped, will still have their guns manned and will shoot you if you surface. You'd think each bob would wash the men off the mounts, but they must be lashed to their stations with scuba gear.:damn: Eventually you can put enough torpedoes in them to effect their sinking, but it will take far more than it should. I haven't experienced this offline.

[bigboywooly]

The game thinks the ship is sunk due to damage ( hitpoints ) so you get the message
Sometimes the ships stay afloat awhile
If you use external cam you will notice on warships the guns return to rest positions and screws are stopped
Ship may still be making headway due to its previous speed though

The damage model\sinking physics arent the same as RL - tis a game remember :up:

Hope that helps

[bigboywooly]

The ones that cause me the most consternation are the "bobbing sinkers". I've only experienced this in multiplayer, but you've got a ship that's 90%+ underwater and it appears to about to roll over and slip under, only to keep bobbing back upright. It's like a Monty Python "it's only a flesh wound" ship. These things, if they are gun equipped, will still have their guns manned and will shoot you if you surface. You'd think each bob would wash the men off the mounts, but they must be lashed to their stations with scuba gear.:damn: Eventually you can put enough torpedoes in them to effect their sinking, but it will take far more than it should. I haven't experienced this offline.

Tis a quirk of multiplayer games
Doesnt happen in career or SP
Odd that one

[Jay]

The damage model\sinking physics arent the same as RL - tis a game remember :up: Hope that helps
Thanks to all for the explanation. The pluses of GWX far outweigh this minor distraction.

[Hanomag]

Im just glad the targets go inactive or unlockable... otherwise I'd probably be pumpin eels into an already sunk target.

And I believe the DD crewman are waaay over paid when they are still pinging me with 50% of their ship under water and the stern sticking straight up! :o

[minute]

There is only one instance where I have observed something like this with GWX 1.3, and this was the Shornetzkovski or whatever the name is of the russian 3000t-light cruiser/destroyer that often appears as escort in convoys in the Black Sea. Whenever I sank one, after getting the "She's going down" message, she would settle down several meters down in the water with the upper structures and the masts sticking out. And it was staying there even for days and weeks, I kept running into it in my patrol... I always there was something wrong with that ship's model.