EU and US colliding head-on at Bali climate conference

[Skybird]

What was to be expected - the US successfully prevents any obligatory climate goals and deals words for more wasting time, not deeds getting done. Stupid, and irresponsible up to criminal dimensions.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-523027,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-523211,00.html

click on the tabs for general overview data:
http://www.spiegel.de/flash/0,5532,16836,00.html

:down:

[bookworm_020]

Australia is stuck in the middle of the two, trying to solve the impass, but coping it from both sides!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/bali-talks-in-balance/2007/12/13/1197135655538.html

[Iceman]

China ranks 40 Russia 50 and the US 55....and yet you still spin the wheels groping to figure it out.....your screwed buddy...plan for it.

[Blacklight]

All I can say is.. "Thank you Bush Administration".
This current administration isn't interested in anything unless the sale of oil is involved in some way, shape or form, or unless there's some way to make the wealthiest people in the US richer.:nope:

This current administration has no interest in the environment at all. Heck ! One of the first things that George W. did when he got into the White House was to begin procedures to reverse Bill Clinton's order that an area that an oil company wanted to drill in Alaska be considered a nature preserve and non-drillable.

Untill we get an administration change, the US unfortunately is NOT going to be environmentally friendly. Right now, the Oil industries and other big business like it are pretty much running the country.:nope:

Pray that we're able to kick the bums out durring the next elections.:stare:

[Ducimus]

- A good portion of Americans, think global warming is a bunch of crap. This is to say that opinion is highly divided on this issue, and has unfortunatly been painted up in this country as a liberal vs conservative issue.

- Just my opininon, but i think we as a people (Americans), are high resistant to change. We typically dont change our ways, and don't bend over, or backwards, or even a little bit to the side, for anybody. From something as trivial as "i always park my car here" on up to larger issues, we're typically pretty stubborn.

- So long as a president is in office that puts corporate and special intrests as first prioirty, don't expect any cooperation rom the Oval office anytime soon.

[August]

All I can say is thank God for a President who won't sell our country down the river.

Here's an example of some of the proposals Skybird thinks we're criminals for not accepting.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/123846.html

Without going into the details, the Greenhouse Development Rights Framework (GDR) proposal foresees levying the equivalent of a climate "consumption luxury tax" on every person who earns over a "development threshold" of $9,000 per year. The idea is that rich people got rich in part by dumping carbon dioxide (CO2) from fossil fuels into the atmosphere, leaving less space for poor people to dump their emissions. In one scenario, Americans would pay the equivalent of a $780 per person luxury tax annually, which amounts to sending $212 billion per year in climate reparations to poor countries to aid their development and help them adapt to climate change

[NEON DEON]

All I can say is thank God for a President who won't sell our country down the river.

Here's an example of some of the proposals Skybird thinks we're criminals for not accepting.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/123846.html

Without going into the details, the Greenhouse Development Rights Framework (GDR) proposal foresees levying the equivalent of a climate "consumption luxury tax" on every person who earns over a "development threshold" of $9,000 per year. The idea is that rich people got rich in part by dumping carbon dioxide (CO2) from fossil fuels into the atmosphere, leaving less space for poor people to dump their emissions. In one scenario, Americans would pay the equivalent of a $780 per person luxury tax annually, which amounts to sending $212 billion per year in climate reparations to poor countries to aid their development and help them adapt to climate change

The fox guarding the chicken coop.

Ronald bailey author

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=2

My take on Bailey over the years.

Oh global warning is smoke and mirrors. Oh maybe not. Ok so its a problem but we cant do anything about it in a timely fashion and besides its gonna cost alot of money to do. I didnt know exxon was a funder.


I think Bailey is full of it.


Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

[August]

Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can laugh but how does a gun hurt someone without a human to point and operate it?

[VipertheSniper]

Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can laugh but how does a gun hurt someone without a human to point and operate it?

I demand we ban people and human apes then instead of guns... :damn: :damn:

[mrbeast]

Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can laugh but how does a gun hurt someone without a human to point and operate it?

I demand we ban people and human apes then instead of guns... :damn: :damn:

Banning people might not be such a bad idea:hmm:

[STEED]

Saw the news and Europe backs down, well that's a wrap.

[The WosMan]

Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can laugh but how does a gun hurt someone without a human to point and operate it?

Didn't you know that they can jump up off the table and randomly shoot people?

[NEON DEON]

Next up the NRA does study saying guns are not dangerous. :rotfl: :rotfl:

You can laugh but how does a gun hurt someone without a human to point and operate it?

Didn't you know that they can jump up off the table and randomly shoot people?

Earthqauke :rotfl:

The eight year old gets it shoots himself or his friend stuff like that.

Or, VP Dick Cheney gets one and well you know what happens when Dick gets a hold of one. :lol:

Guns are dangerous.

[RickC Sniper]

Guns are dangerous.

Actually it is people who are dangerous. A gun is simply a tool.

[NEON DEON]

Guns are dangerous.

Actually it is people who are dangerous. A gun is simply a tool.

No its a weapon

A tool is a socket wrench.

[Iceman]

I did not mean to sound like an A-hole above but was trying to make a point or get a response from someone who may know more about the issue than me.


The point... is where do China and Russia stand on it?

The reason to me or the solution to this and ALL I mean ALL global problems can be solved if these three superpowers could agree and work as a team.Here in lies the problem....the reason why there is a US and a Russia and Germany and a Saudi Arabia etc etc...is people are divided. They always will be. This is simple math here folks. This is also where people mis-understand this pov and think WE or I do not care...this is not so....I do not mean to toot my own horn the simple fact is maybe I am smarter or wiser than you all...you decide....but to bite off or chew on things that are beyond mans means to control is counterproductive and probably enough to drive many to suicide....which is btw a reason I think many youth choose this path....


They wake up and REALIZE....this place is seriously ****ed UP!

and see no hope.

If China and Russia and the US ever saw eye to eye...watch out...things will or would change....but until then you'd be smarter to think of a different plan cause **** will get worse guarenteed.

[Skybird]

After these issues already had been discussed and negotiated in the 80s and during my schooldays, one has reached consensus that after twenty years of negotiating, two more years of negotiations are still needed, before the real important negotiations should be launched. In overtime the US made a U-turn and agreed that negotiating is the way to go, but not before the EU made a U-turn itself and had dropped all demands for oligatory commitments, time tables, criterion numbers - nothing of it is left. China at the end boiled in hot anger and demanded an apology of the climate panel for beeing so stubborn to give all those unfriendly perspectives and disturbing minds and economical interests by that. I suppose their hot anger is soon to be cooled again when the next floodings hit their country.

What this conference has accieved is the only one thing we could not need: more of HOT AIR, and nothing get's done. Nevertheless, everyone is boasting. the winner of it is the US, having fulfilled almost all it's mission goals that had been reported even in advance. This victory is: preventing obligations, and installing more delays, without needing to put off the shiny white jacket and calling of the party afterwards. Tells something about the goals of US climate policies.

Meanwhile:

Last Friday, the Senate failed to invoke cloture on the Energy Bill, allowing Senators who oppose some of the renewable energy provisions to filibuster the legislation. The Senate is expected to bring a revised Bill to the floor sometime this week.
At issue is the $13 billion in tax incentives taken from the oil and natural gas industries and given to the renewable energy industries. Because the Democrats have pledged a “pay as you go” approach to crafting legislation, they argue that it is necessary to take tax incentives from the well-established fossil energy industries to give to the relatively nascent renewable energy industries.

There are also concerns from Senators about the Renewable Electricity Standard (RES), which would require utilities to get 15% of their electricity from renewable resources by 2020. Some politicians and lobbyists say that a RES will raise electricity prices and put an unfair burden on utilities. But as the cost of conventional sources of energy continues to rise, industry advocates argue that increased reliance on renewables will lower retail electricity rates for consumers in the coming years.

“At a time when the country is buffeted by growing demand for electricity, higher energy costs, and climate change and energy security concerns, a cornerstone of any energy bill should be to promote renewable energy,” said Randall Swisher, Executive Director of the American Wind Energy Association (http://www.awea.org/). “The Renewable Electricity Standard (RES) and the extension of clean energy tax incentives that are included in the House Bill should therefore also be included in the final Senate Bill.”

A Senate vote on the Energy Bill is expected sometime this week. However, it is unclear if the Bill will include all of the renewable energy provisions that were in the House version that passed last week.

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=50804

For those not familiar with the French and American detail of filibusters and cloture: a filibuster is an attempt to prevent a voting by keeping on to talk during debate, endlessly, for hours if needed, on all and everything, to babble and babble and babble, and the babbler can only be stopped if 60% of the chamber's members vote in favor to stop the talking head. In other words: a filibuster is a final act of despair, and it is meant to be destructive from A to Z. If a lobby, a party, a group needs to use filibusters, it tells you something about how desperatly they are trying to prevent any voting at all.


Climate death is not our fate. It is our CHOICE.

[Iceman]

Climate death is not our fate. It is our CHOICE.

Thank you for the response...

John 3
[19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

it is a conscience choice...