View Full Version : Sick former SS officer
Stand by to be sicken by this swine, what made me feel sick was his clinical no regrets what so ever.
Unrepentant Nazi, 84, calls Auschwitz a 'ten star hotel' and tells Dachau victim 'you survived well' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=501310&in_page_id=1811)
Konovalov
12-13-07, 03:45 PM
From the article, "he manages to draw pensions from three countries."
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
That's just for starters. :down:
Ducimus
12-13-07, 04:53 PM
Wow, this defies beleif. This is the sort of thing you'd see as a tabloid headliner - right up there with "i was abducted by space aliens"
Wow, this defies beleif. This is the sort of thing you'd see as a tabloid headliner - right up there with "i was abducted by space aliens"
The tabloids in the UK would never claim that without Princess Diana, Madeline Mccann,
pedophiles, "political correctness" and the evils of the EU/foreigners in the headline.
SUBMAN1
12-13-07, 05:27 PM
Maybe he isn't sick? Maybe the killing hadn't started when he was a gaurd? I'd hear him out before casting judgement. Maybe he firmly believes that the killing was all a lie? You never know.
-S
Maybe he firmly believes that the killing was all a lie? You never know.
David Irving. :roll:
Biggles
12-13-07, 05:38 PM
Quite amazing to see such arrogance in such an old body, that must've lived a long life and must've seen quite a big chunk of things.
bookworm_020
12-13-07, 05:39 PM
I remember seeing a documentary on Auschwitz where they talked to survivors and also to some of the guards that ran the camp. It was chilling to see that the guards had no remorse for their actions. Many of the guards managed to avoid jail terms for their crimes.:stare:
Some tried to justified it by saying they were following orders, or that's how it was back then. Some didn't really care about what they had done or how they had profitied from the misery inflicted on others.
SUBMAN1
12-13-07, 05:41 PM
...Some tried to justified it by saying they were following orders, or that's how it was back then. Some didn't really care about what they had done or how they had profitied from the misery inflicted on others.I'd say being shot for failing to follow orders may have been a strong motivator! :D They probably were just following orders.
-S
Maybe he isn't sick? Maybe the killing hadn't started when he was a gaurd? I'd hear him out before casting judgement. Maybe he firmly believes that the killing was all a lie? You never know.
-S
I don't think there's anything to hear. Sure, he can talk all he likes, but "firmly believing", unlike what some people assume, doesn't make things go away. He's been a criminal ever since he joined a Nazi party organization, let alone a camp-guard branch of it, and on the topic of the crime he has no say after he's been proven guilty. Zero.
...Some tried to justified it by saying they were following orders, or that's how it was back then. Some didn't really care about what they had done or how they had profitied from the misery inflicted on others.I'd say being shot for failing to follow orders may have been a strong motivator! :D They probably were just following orders.
-S
Joining the SS was a conscious choice on his part. It wasn't by any stretch a conscript organization. Were he in any other German branch of service, that'd possibly work. With the SS, that's no excuse. He knew exactly what their job was and he didn't get it by being a passive collaborator with the Nazi cause.
SUBMAN1
12-13-07, 06:43 PM
What was their job? To me, that is just that you are a member of the party, which doesn't automatically make you guilty. If that is the case, half the world should be jailed for being with the wrong party of some sort. How many Russians should we jail for working with Stalin or affiliate party?
Last I checked, the US even let go the driver for Bin Laden. He worked for Bin Laden, so he should probably be hanged under your idea of justice.
-S
Happy Times
12-13-07, 07:12 PM
Maybe he isn't sick? Maybe the killing hadn't started when he was a gaurd? I'd hear him out before casting judgement. Maybe he firmly believes that the killing was all a lie? You never know.
-S
I don't think there's anything to hear. Sure, he can talk all he likes, but "firmly believing", unlike what some people assume, doesn't make things go away. He's been a criminal ever since he joined a Nazi party organization, let alone a camp-guard branch of it, and on the topic of the crime he has no say after he's been proven guilty. Zero.
...Some tried to justified it by saying they were following orders, or that's how it was back then. Some didn't really care about what they had done or how they had profitied from the misery inflicted on others.I'd say being shot for failing to follow orders may have been a strong motivator! :D They probably were just following orders.
-S
Joining the SS was a conscious choice on his part. It wasn't by any stretch a conscript organization. Were he in any other German branch of service, that'd possibly work. With the SS, that's no excuse. He knew exactly what their job was and he didn't get it by being a passive collaborator with the Nazi cause.
My wiews.
SS camp guards cant deny they didnt know about what was going on.
But Waffen SS on the otherhand doesnt make you automatically a war crimiminal.
And Waffen SS had concription also, this was acknowledged in the Nurnberg trial.
The NKVD btw did more crimes than Waffen SS. If we agree in that NSDAP was a criminal party i just think that everyone joining the Communist party during Lenin and Stalin is by logic also criminal.
Interesting history on Gestapo(part of SS) and NKVD co-operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo-NKVD_Conferences
kiwi_2005
12-13-07, 07:24 PM
Read the book "The Holocaust The Jewish Tragedy" Your know what a Nazi was really like. The old saying i was following orders is just their cunning way of saying wasn't my fault. These camp guards killed with or without orders, they killed cause they wanted to, not because they were ordered too. They enjoyed every minute of it. Then when they lost the war they go off into hiding and when caught its "I was only following orders" :roll::nope:
Read the book "The Holocaust The Jewish Tragedy" Your know what a Nazi was really like. The old saying i was following orders is just their cunning way of saying wasn't my fault. These camp guards killed with or without orders, they killed cause they wanted to, not because they were ordered too. They enjoyed every minute of it. Then when they lost the war they go off into hiding and when caught its "I was only following orders" :roll::nope:
You summed it up perfectly.
Every Spaniard should be ashamed of themselves for this news. I know I would be.
The WosMan
12-13-07, 08:16 PM
There was this guy here near where I live named John Demjanjuk and he was supposedly a russian SS nazi named Ivan the Terrible who would march jews into the gas chamber at treblinka. Anyways, after the war he moved to Seven Hills Ohio and worked over at Ford Motor in Brookpark, Ohio.
Israel for years were trying to get him, they did extradite him to Israel to stand trial and they convicted him and sentenced him to death but time had an effect on the evidence and Demjanjuk's son was a damn good attorney and finally, the Israeli high court exhonorated him. I believe he is still alive living in retirement here in Ohio and there is still battles going on back and forth to put him on trial. Even though he may not have been Ivan the Terrible, I am convinced he was at the least a nazi SS man because a.) In high school I worked with a guy who grew up with Demanuk's kids and he said that when he was a kid Demjanjuk had some pretty negative views on jews and other reminiscing about "the good old days"
b.) I met his granddaughter at a party hosted by a friend of mine and she was drunk and at some point started talking about her grandfather and how her dad spends all his time trying to defend him. I asked her "who is your grandfather" and she said it was Demjanjuk. I was pretty surprised and asked her what she thought of the whole thing and she didn't come to his defense like I thought she would, sort of a half admission.
It seams to me that this man has had his sense of morality permanently removed by
acts he was convinced to take part in and the ideas he has been convinced are just.
I both pity and despise him.
antikristuseke
12-14-07, 08:24 AM
Read the book "The Holocaust The Jewish Tragedy" Your know what a Nazi was really like. The old saying i was following orders is just their cunning way of saying wasn't my fault. These camp guards killed with or without orders, they killed cause they wanted to, not because they were ordered too. They enjoyed every minute of it. Then when they lost the war they go off into hiding and when caught its "I was only following orders" :roll::nope:
This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.
Jimbuna
12-14-07, 10:26 AM
The quotes in the storyline title are what shocked me :o
SUBMAN1
12-14-07, 10:28 AM
This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.
My sentiments exactly.
What i not understand is that men like hem, stil after all the suffer that germany have had after the war, adore the nazi time.
Stealth Hunter
12-15-07, 02:25 AM
"I believe Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived."
Then do us all a grand old favor and DIE, old bastard.
This never fails. The people who do good in the world die at young and unfulfilled ages while the evil ones live to be 80 or 100 years old.
kiwi_2005
12-15-07, 03:35 AM
Read the book "The Holocaust The Jewish Tragedy" Your know what a Nazi was really like. The old saying i was following orders is just their cunning way of saying wasn't my fault. These camp guards killed with or without orders, they killed cause they wanted to, not because they were ordered too. They enjoyed every minute of it. Then when they lost the war they go off into hiding and when caught its "I was only following orders" :roll::nope:
This is exactly the kind of generalisation that needs to stop if we are ever going to have any hope for peace on this Earth. Making every camp guard out to be some monster without any humanity is just plain wrong. I agree with you that they are guilty but broad generalisations like the one you just made are wrong.
Well in parts of the book it mentions one German guard who according to the Jews helped them he didn't like what was going on and was sickened by his own people. Helping them meaning he never beat them or set the dogs on them cause they were Jews, Russians or poles or in Nazi terms subhuman races:roll: Not to mention during 1944 onwards US pilots imprisoned were force to carry heavy rocks up a hill all day everytime they fell they were beaten, if they didn't get up they died where they layed - they would last a few days some not even that, usually dieing of exhaustion. This was their punishment for the US bombing Germany...
The guy mentioned in this article though is guilty as they come. Honestly If he was a man and turned around and said yes we were brutal towards our prisoners and i was part of that era and im not happy about that I was following orders but im ashamed for what i did then he would get my respect but he goes on to say I was following orders & Hilter was the greatest man alive :rotfl: Hes scum and would shoot his own mother if he was ordered too.
SS camp guards cant deny they didnt know about what was going on.
But Waffen SS on the otherhand doesnt make you automatically a war crimiminal.
And Waffen SS had concription also, this was acknowledged in the Nurnberg trial.
The NKVD btw did more crimes than Waffen SS. If we agree in that NSDAP was a criminal party i just think that everyone joining the Communist party during Lenin and Stalin is by logic also criminal.
Well, hold your horses, I know where you're coming from and let's not go there again!
I've changed my views of the Waffen SS somewhat lately, but I would still be very careful. It was often a matter of where they were stationed. And I think pointing back at the USSR in this is totally inappropriate. I don't think anyone would EVER defend NKVD for what they did, but let's not forget the ideological pushes between the two regimes. For all that they came out with, the Soviet regime was never explicitly nationalist and never, IN DOCTRINE, advocated the "removal" of any groups of people, let alone genocide. The Nazi doctrine meanwhile was laid out well before they were in power, and quite explicitly. While I think anyone joining the NKVD in the later 30s or 40s knew just as well what they were getting into, one could excuse quite a few Soviets generally for being fooled that their state was following an essentially Marxist egalitarian doctrine which on paper had no genocidal tendencies written into it.
As for Waffen SS - those who had to choose between what they thought were the lesser of two evils (Soviet or Nazi), I can at least sympathise with the dilemma - but never condone. I think we had this before and I told you my thoughts about it that time.
For SS and NKVD survivors alike, I just wish they all die their quiet deaths now and we move on having learned from both and justifying neither.
Happy Times
12-15-07, 05:08 PM
SS camp guards cant deny they didnt know about what was going on.
But Waffen SS on the otherhand doesnt make you automatically a war crimiminal.
And Waffen SS had concription also, this was acknowledged in the Nurnberg trial.
The NKVD btw did more crimes than Waffen SS. If we agree in that NSDAP was a criminal party i just think that everyone joining the Communist party during Lenin and Stalin is by logic also criminal.
Well, hold your horses, I know where you're coming from and let's not go there again!
I've changed my views of the Waffen SS somewhat lately, but I would still be very careful. It was often a matter of where they were stationed. And I think pointing back at the USSR in this is totally inappropriate. I don't think anyone would EVER defend NKVD for what they did, but let's not forget the ideological pushes between the two regimes. For all that they came out with, the Soviet regime was never explicitly nationalist and never, IN DOCTRINE, advocated the "removal" of any groups of people, let alone genocide. The Nazi doctrine meanwhile was laid out well before they were in power, and quite explicitly. While I think anyone joining the NKVD in the later 30s or 40s knew just as well what they were getting into, one could excuse quite a few Soviets generally for being fooled that their state was following an essentially Marxist egalitarian doctrine which on paper had no genocidal tendencies written into it.
As for Waffen SS - those who had to choose between what they thought were the lesser of two evils (Soviet or Nazi), I can at least sympathise with the dilemma - but never condone. I think we had this before and I told you my thoughts about it that time.
For SS and NKVD survivors alike, I just wish they all die their quiet deaths now and we move on having learned from both and justifying neither.
We are in agreement then, historical.
Altough IMO there has to be something in the doctrine, because everywhere it resulted in genocide and mass murder.
But we dont have to discuss that anymore.:lol:
Biggles
12-15-07, 07:17 PM
"I believe Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived."
Then do us all a grand old favor and DIE, old bastard.
This never fails. The people who do good in the world die at young and unfulfilled ages while the evil ones live to be 80 or 100 years old.
Evil and good is always a subject that changes truth. The west won the war. The west wrote the history books. If the nazis won the war (and thank GOD that didn't happen) you wouldn't have said that about a nazi. You might've thought so, but you wouldn't dare to say it.
He isn't evil. He's just stupid, arrogant and mad as a hatter. But not evil. There is no such thing. If only I was right about this....
Kapitan_Phillips
12-15-07, 08:01 PM
What i not understand is that men like hem, stil after all the suffer that germany have had after the war, adore the nazi time.
Thats an interesting point. I put it down to the Nazi party coming to power during a great German depression, and seeing the country get back up on its feet again after alot of people had lost hope.
That kind of thing can make firm (yet naiive) believers out of people. Alot of people, when asked what they thought of Hitler, instantly jump to the Holocaust and World War 2, without paying consideration to events prior to that.
I'm not defending what Hitler did, or even suggesting he was a great man. I'm saying that its important to understand how people could have begun following him, and continued to follow him throughout the Holocaust and the war.
Stealth Hunter
12-15-07, 10:43 PM
He isn't evil. He's just stupid, arrogant and mad as a hatter.
How can people honestly believe that?
If you can stand there and tell me that Auschwitz was a 4-star hotel, something is VERY, VERY wrong with you, my friend. Oh yes, throwing children down into the cold mud and throwing cruel dogs on them is DEFINITELY how people want to be treated. Oh, maybe the gas chambers and furnaces were spa's and pools, not murder-holes and places to dispose of bodies?
The ash that rained out of the furnaces got a foot deep at one point... one foot deep. That's one foot over a mile radius that's composed of the flesh, bone, hearts, minds, and blood of murdered human beings. To top that off, that was just at Bergen-Belsen. Some of the Jews who were transported there thought it was snow at first, but dear god were they wrong. The poor Jews were so wrong.
If only it had been snow coming from a cloud overhead, raining down on a forest and not a death camp. If only it had been a stream running through the camp and not guard dogs chasing down and ripping people to shreds. If only it had been a couple of guys on a hunting trip with rifles instead of a hundred SS troopers with machine pistols killing off the Jews of the camp; one by one, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second...
If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.
Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.
If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.
Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.
Be careful what you wish for.
Had any of those events you mention actually happened the result could have been far, far worse than it was. For example imagine a Reichmarshal directing the Battle of Britian who was more competant than Fatso Goering. Worse imagine a Fuhrer sane enough to listen to his best generals.
Stealth Hunter
12-15-07, 11:52 PM
Perhaps, but the Third Reich may have never existed if Hitler was killed off. Perhaps the best outcome would have been Germany winning World War I.
Happy Times
12-15-07, 11:59 PM
He isn't evil. He's just stupid, arrogant and mad as a hatter.
If only Hitler had died when that gas shell landed just 6 feet away from him during World War I. If only Hermann Goring had died from his parachute failing when he bailed out of his Fokker D.VII after being rammed. If only Ernst Udet had suffered the same fate as Goring. If only Rommel's tank during World War I had struck a mine or had one simple bullet ricochet inside.
Funny how things can turn out sometimes by such a seemingly small and insignificant events.
If we go that far, my wiew on ww1 is that Britain, France and Russia would have started it if Germany and Austria-Hungary hadnt..
France and Britain especially have allways wanted to limit Germanys power in Europe, radicalizing it, at the same time building their own empires overseas. They made possible for Hitler to get voted into position and didnt stop him early when it was still possible. Its good for the small countries of Europe that all these empires fell apart, so they cant draw their borders in confrences.
Biggles
12-16-07, 06:01 AM
Nver said that I think he was right about any of those things. Just that "evil" is a word with different meanings. For the sake of it, yes, I think Hitler was "evil". But some don't.
This is really not the kinda thing that you still expect to see...
Biggles
12-16-07, 06:35 AM
This is really not the kinda thing that you still expect to see...
What,the old nazi or your sig?:)
Seriously though. There is probably several old nazis throughout the world. Same goes for hardcore communists. I guess that they wasted alot of their lives to their cause, and if they suddenly realize that they've been wrong all the time, the shock may kill them.....
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.