View Full Version : Who will be the next President of the United States?
Onkel Neal
12-05-07, 07:59 PM
Ok, a year from now, we will know (unless Florida has a problem reading their ballots). My question, who do you think will be the next President of the United States? Now, not necessarily who you want to be the next President, but if you had to bet $100 of your lunch money, who do you think will ultimately win the nom and general election?
Let's see your political savvy up front, state your claim now.
Edit: Poll is now public, click on one of the vote numbers to see how predictions are faring.
Skybird
12-05-07, 08:03 PM
Neal, you surprise me, lots of potentially flamatory threads from you in recent weeks! :lol:
Could we also have a poll "Who should be the next president of the US?" :-j
Onkel Neal
12-05-07, 08:08 PM
Neal, you surprise me, lots of potentially flamatory threads from you in recent weeks! :lol:
Could we also have a poll "Who should be the next president of the US?" :-j
Ha! Now that would be flammatory!
Probably way too early to call but I expect the pendulum is going to swing in the other direction next year. After watching the last Republican debate I don't believe any candidates have enough strength and charisma to take on Hillary if she wins the Dem ticket. I think she will end up holding herself back - as they say, people may not vote FOR the Republican, but AGAINST Hillary - being a woman (there are still Americans, I think, who aren't comfortable with the idea of a female prez) and, well, being Hillary.
From these very early showings and my completely unscientific observations I induce Hillary takes it with a very very narrow margin.
MothBalls
12-05-07, 08:22 PM
It's actually three different questions.
Who will be President?
Who do you want to be President?
Who should be President?
Unfortunately in the US it will probably be whoever buys the most TV spots, does the best job at mudslinging, and most likely to support the interests of big business.
I didn't vote. My pick, Morgan Freeman, isn't in the poll.
Skybird
12-05-07, 08:24 PM
It's actually three different questions.
Who will be President?
Who do you want to be President?
Who should be President?
And a fourth question: why not me? :smug:
I reckon (and voted) for Hilary Clinton as the likely winner. She's probably not a great choice for president, but I suspect the backlash from getting fingers in too many military pies around the world might swing it for her, even the Bush administration is currently distancing itself from anti-Iranian sabre-rattling at the moment. There is also the female vote, that's something which worked for Margaret Thatcher in the UK when she was voted in to be the first female PM, and has also worked in many other countries too, with many of those women voters not really interested in policies as such, but simply going for 'girl power'.
:D Chock
bookworm_020
12-05-07, 08:58 PM
The fact that we still have a year of this to go (barring a contested recount!), and that's it's gone on for at least a year is enough to make anyone go nuts:doh:
Isn't there anything else for the US to think over other than who's going to run?, Who's going to win? and What will they do?
Just vote now and get it over!:-?
Remember to vote early and vote often if you live in Florida!:rotfl:
as they say, people may not vote FOR the Republican, but AGAINST Hillary
I think you have your saying backwards. Unless the GOP does something in the next year to turn the tide of public opinion, (SubSim public aside), it will be more like "people may not vote FOR Hillary, but against the Republican Party."
I won't vote as i'm not a Yank and therefore feel it isn't my place but if I were to put money i'd say Hillary.
I expect a similar thing to happen in the USA that happened in Australia, and that's the Republican party losing.
Ducimus
12-05-07, 10:02 PM
Im afraid to guess. Cause i know, in some time hence from now, it will come back to haunt me.
waste gate
12-05-07, 10:15 PM
I'm not in the prediction business. The only poll which matters occurs when the Electoral College votes in December 2008.
NEON DEON
12-05-07, 10:22 PM
It's actually three different questions.
Who will be President?
Who do you want to be President?
Who should be President?
And a fourth question: why not me? :smug:
1) You have got to be a U S Citizen.
2) I do not think you could stand yourself being Prez of the U S!;)
3) Are you prepared to grope the German leader?
Monica Lewinsky
12-05-07, 10:22 PM
Alfred E. Nueman.
The curent pool is polluted with major b.s.
waste gate
12-05-07, 10:26 PM
It's actually three different questions.
Who will be President?
Who do you want to be President?
Who should be President?
And a fourth question: why not me? :smug:
1) You have got to be a U S Citizen.
2) I do not think you could stand yourself being Prez of the U S!;)
I agree, Skybird would actually have to deal with a problem instead of non-constructively critisizing the problem. He would also have to work much harder than his state mandated six weeks vacation allows.
I think Skybird was referring to Neal's post, therefore the question is really on Neal's part there :p
I agree, Skybird would actually have to deal with a problem instead of non-constructively critisizing the problem. He would also have to work much harder than his state mandated six weeks vacation allows.
I doubt there many working class Americans that would argue with a mandated 6 weeks vacation or a 36 hour work week. And the extra time off doesn't seem to be hurting the Euro.
JSLTIGER
12-05-07, 10:56 PM
Neal, you surprise me, lots of potentially flamatory threads from you in recent weeks! :lol:
Could we also have a poll "Who should be the next president of the US?" :-j
Ha! Now that would be flammatory!
I know that I might get brig time for insubordination but...
Isn't the word that you're both searching for inflammatory?
NEON DEON
12-05-07, 11:00 PM
I think Skybird was referring to Neal's post, therefore the question is really on Neal's part there :p
Oh man!
You are right:oops:
Ok a fifth question then:
Should Skybird or Arnold be allowed to run for Prez of the US?:ping:
Onkel Neal
12-05-07, 11:01 PM
Isn't the word that you're both searching for inflammatory?
I think your write :hmm:
Onkel Neal
12-05-07, 11:02 PM
I think Skybird was referring to Neal's post, therefore the question is really on Neal's part there :p
Oh man!
You are right:oops:
Ok a fifth question then:
Should Skybird or Arnold be allowed to run for Prez of the US?:ping:
Skybird for President? No way. Maybe Vice-President on the Terminator ticket, ok.
I think Skybird was referring to Neal's post, therefore the question is really on Neal's part there :p
Oh man!
You are right:oops:
Ok a fifth question then:
Should Skybird or Arnold be allowed to run for Prez of the US?:ping:
Sure! The moment they can present a valid US birth certificate! :D
Isn't the word that you're both searching for inflammatory?
I think your write :hmm:
I can't stand it when people use uncorrect grammar.
:p
I reckon (and voted) for Hilary Clinton as the likely winner. She's probably not a great choice for president, but I suspect the backlash from getting fingers in too many military pies around the world might swing it for her, even the Bush administration is currently distancing itself from anti-Iranian sabre-rattling at the moment. There is also the female vote, that's something which worked for Margaret Thatcher in the UK when she was voted in to be the first female PM, and has also worked in many other countries too, with many of those women voters not really interested in policies as such, but simply going for 'girl power'.
:D Chock
There will never be a woman American president...period.
Obama will not win either I'm sorry to say because he is black.
....so the democratic party is screwed even before it has a chance.
....it will be a Republican...who, I can not say,but as time passes and World events shape things we will see.
Rudy I'm sorry to see is riding the coat tails of a tragic event "but he does have that Bush Hillbilliness about him :)"...he has no place in the arena.
Mike,Mitt,Fred, or the man with the most XP is McCain but is at the rear atm but we'll see how things unfold this year.
I count on mans prejudice in my comments about Hillary and Obama...man is too prejudiced.
I think the country is ready for a woman or a black president, but just not Hillary or Obama.
ATM i'm leaning towards Thompson or McCain.
Ha!!! Just wait until I announce MY entry into the Presidential race!
A subsim in every computer!
:rock:
Camaero
12-06-07, 02:36 AM
Ha!!! Just wait until I announce MY entry into the Presidential race!
A subsim in every computer!
:rock:
Vote for Pedro!....oops... I mean Peto!
Skybird
12-06-07, 06:08 AM
I think Skybird was referring to Neal's post, therefore the question is really on Neal's part there :p
Oh man!
You are right:oops:
Ok a fifth question then:
Should Skybird or Arnold be allowed to run for Prez of the US?:ping:
Skybird for President? No way. Maybe Vice-President on the Terminator ticket, ok.
I heared that. :shifty: And I'll remember you. :arrgh!:
And btw - who is Arnold? ;)
I reckon (and voted) for Hilary Clinton as the likely winner. She's probably not a great choice for president, but I suspect the backlash from getting fingers in too many military pies around the world might swing it for her, even the Bush administration is currently distancing itself from anti-Iranian sabre-rattling at the moment. There is also the female vote, that's something which worked for Margaret Thatcher in the UK when she was voted in to be the first female PM, and has also worked in many other countries too, with many of those women voters not really interested in policies as such, but simply going for 'girl power'.
:D Chock
There will never be a woman American president...period.
Obama will not win either I'm sorry to say because he is black.
....so the democratic party is screwed even before it has a chance.
....it will be a Republican...who, I can not say,but as time passes and World events shape things we will see.
Rudy I'm sorry to see is riding the coat tails of a tragic event "but he does have that Bush Hillbilliness about him :)"...he has no place in the arena.
Mike,Mitt,Fred, or the man with the most XP is McCain but is at the rear atm but we'll see how things unfold this year.
I count on mans prejudice in my comments about Hillary and Obama...man is too prejudiced.
Man is only going to get 50% of the vote in this election. Plus the are of a lot of men that will vote Democratic no matter who the candidate is. I think America is more ready for Hillary than you give it credit for.
Jimbuna
12-06-07, 10:35 AM
I voted for Hillary because I reckon people are desparate to see if she can give a better 'personal' performance than Bill did during his time in The White House. ;)
I voted for Hillary because I reckon people are desparate to see if she can give a better 'personal' performance than Bill did during his time in The White House. ;)
Please no cigar gags. :damn:
AVGWarhawk
12-06-07, 04:29 PM
Hillary will take a sweeping victory. Sad, but true. Personally, I have had enough of Clinton and Bush family clan running the country. Time for new thoughts and the old status quo we have now needs to go away. It will not if Hillary is elected. Furthermore, America can not afford Hillary and her grandious ideas.
Konovalov
12-06-07, 04:32 PM
No one here at Subsim thinks Mitt Romney is a chance? :-?
Vote for Neal now there is a man of the people. :D
AVGWarhawk
12-06-07, 04:38 PM
No one here at Subsim thinks Mitt Romney is a chance? :-?
No. The others on the list have no chance either. Hillary knows the talk and walks the walk. The only thing I see that might hurt Hillary is Bill. Hillary has had years of watching campaigning and learning...hence, welcome to the show. We are seriously screwed.
AVGWarhawk
12-06-07, 04:38 PM
People are voting for Fred Thompson????? I believed he has dropped out already.
danurve
12-06-07, 04:49 PM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
waste gate
12-06-07, 04:53 PM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
That particular statement, although directed toward her leftwing audience, will certainly haunt her in the general election. It is straight out of the Marxist, anti-capitalist, you can never get ahead handbook. If there were not enough negatives for her let her keep speaking.
Konovalov
12-06-07, 04:54 PM
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
Ouch. :oops: However that wasn't the question of this thread or poll. So who will win?
Ducimus
12-06-07, 04:59 PM
I think the country is ready for a woman or a black president, but just not Hillary or Obama.
ATM i'm leaning towards Thompson or McCain.
I have no problem at all voting for a woman. I do not delinate ability based on gender. Ive seen women do all the work a man can do, hold their own, and do better. Gender means diddly squat. I think a woman president would set a new, possibly positve precedent for the country - i just don't want it to be THAT woman.
She's too ambitious, too power hungry.
Jimbuna
12-06-07, 05:33 PM
Vote for Neal now there is a man of the people. :D
I'll second that :rotfl:
The WosMan
12-06-07, 05:41 PM
Agree, and Hillary won't be the next POTUS. Here is what I predict is going to happen.
2008 is going to be exactly like 1968. The Dems are going to completely lose control at their convention. Already, the number of protest permits filed for the Dem convention is much higher than the Reps. The Moveon.org folks and the other radical lefties are going to show up at the Dem convention over the war in Iraq and other issues. Since the Iraq war is a non-issue right now (seriously, the presidential candidates aren't really even talking about it other than Cuckoo Kuchinich) and even jerks like Pelosi, Murtha, and Reid are pretty much forced to admit that the surge and Petraeus plan has worked over there it isn't sitting very well with the left base of the party. The only difference in regards to 1968 is Hillary is Nixon in terms of the dirty tricks and secrets she has in her closet and I have a feeling they are all going to destroy her candidacy.
AVGWarhawk
12-06-07, 07:49 PM
secrets she(Hillary) has in her closet and I have a feeling they are all going to destroy her candidacy.
Yes, there is more to the story then we know at the moment. I, too, have always felt that something will come up to destroy her. Funny how the White House records during Bills stay will not be released until after the election. Something really stinks here. Funnier yet, no one has raised an eyebrow over this move to squelch opening the books. :hmm:
AVGWarhawk
12-06-07, 07:50 PM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
This is a determined individual:o After the medical procedure I had yesterday....this is bringing hellish nightmares to me.
The WosMan
12-06-07, 09:21 PM
Well she has the backing of powerful people. She has the Chicoms in her back pocket, the Saudis, and the UAE. The Clintons are buddy buddy just as bad if not worse than the Bush family when it comes to the Saudi royal family and Dubai just bailed Citibank out of crisis, a company run by Robert Rubin who was Bill's treasury secretary. Ever hear the term, follow the money? There is a lot of shady stuff going on behind the curtains.
While on that subject, another thing that really bothers me is Rudy Guiliani's lawfirm represents the Mexican company that is building the NAFTA superhighway. Right now I am leaning toward either Thompson or Huckabee because the rest have too many problems.
Stealth Hunter
12-06-07, 10:08 PM
Clinton has a 0 chance here or in Hell. She's a woman, and they will rig the voting process to keep her from winning. I'd say they'll take Barack. He's black, but he's the second leading candidate and he's at least a man.
The WosMan
12-06-07, 10:35 PM
Ever notice how people make such a big deal out of Romney being a mormon but they don't bother Barack over his muslim heritage.
Clinton has a 0 chance here or in Hell. She's a woman, and they will rig the voting process to keep her from winning.
I think you have no clue what you're talking about. Rig the voting process? Care to explain how?
Ducimus
12-06-07, 11:47 PM
Ever notice how people make such a big deal out of Romney being a mormon but they don't bother Barack over his muslim heritage.
Cause if they went after Baracks religion, someone could just pull the japanese internment or bigotry card- an instant PR problem.
If they go after Romneys religion, then im guessing they get more favor with certain factions of the religous wing.
geetrue
12-07-07, 12:38 AM
There will never be a woman American president...period.
Obama will not win either I'm sorry to say because he is black.
....so the democratic party is screwed even before it has a chance.
....it will be a Republican...who, I can not say,but as time passes and World events shape things we will see.
Rudy I'm sorry to see is riding the coat tails of a tragic event "but he does have that Bush Hillbilliness about him :)"...he has no place in the arena.
Mike,Mitt,Fred, or the man with the most XP is McCain but is at the rear atm but we'll see how things unfold this year.
I count on mans prejudice in my comments about Hillary and Obama...man is too prejudiced.
Agreed and I will venture an unqualfied guess (I need to read more about the canidates than just watch them on CNN).
Mike Huckabee is my best guess:
1. He's a Baptist preacher from Arkansas
2. He wants to finish the fence by 2010 and make everyone register or go home
3. He's the right sex, the right size, the right color, the right age at 52
(John McCain is 72 and was my first choice beofre this poll)
4. He's a Republican (Democrat's raise taxes)(honest injun)
5. He's got the rural vote (that's how Bush beat Al Gore)
6. He likes country music
7. He plays in a rock n roll band that has opened for Willie Nelson
8 He looks like an all American selection to me ... Huckabee in 2008
Facts about Mike Huckabee: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0563598320071206
* Before entering politics he was a Baptist minister, leading congregations in Pine Bluff and Texarkana, Arkansas.
* Diagnosed in 2003 with Type II diabetes, he began an intensive health regimen that helped him lose 110 pounds (50 kg). He later completed four marathons and wrote a book on how to live a healthier life, "Quit Digging Yor Grave with a Knife and Fork."
* Known for his quick wit and sense of humor, he recently said of his campaign: "It's better to be called a dark horse than a dead horse," and, "There's three tickets out of Iowa -- first class, business class and coach. We hope to have one of those because otherwise you go home freight."
* Huckabee plays in a rock band called "Capitol Offense," and has opened for country singer Willie Nelson.
* He's married and has three grown children. The 52-year-old Republican was born in Hope, Arkansas, also the birthplace of former President Bill Clinton.
Mike Huckabee's immigration plan:http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/heads_up_mike_huckabees_immigr.php
Skybird
12-07-07, 04:37 AM
Ever notice how people make such a big deal out of Romney being a mormon but they don't bother Barack over his muslim heritage.
Oh God, now the US gets even threatened by stealth muslims! Strange that my patented internal Muslimometer hasn't started ticking yet. Maybe he is a Nexus-6-Muslim.
Better don't believe everything that comes from Hillary's camp, and he is her greatest threat within her party. He confesses to Christianity - like everybody must if he wants to have realistic chances to become president of the United States - I assume president is a religious title.
Obama's father was raised as Muslim indeed, but lost faith and from then on described himself as an atheist. Respect! - it takes some courage to leave Islam behind.
As on the candidates, I do not care who makes it - can you believe it! Those parts of policies that are interesting for the outside world will not change much anyway, no matter who wins. Just a bit less of religious drives, that would be appreciated.
Tchocky
12-07-07, 05:45 AM
Huckabee scares me a little. He's a creationist.
Let me rephrase that.
I'm terrified.
On gay marriage.
There's never been a civilization that has rewritten what marriage and family means and survived.
Right. Sure. Whatever.
VipertheSniper
12-07-07, 05:47 AM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
Konovalov
12-07-07, 05:56 AM
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
Excellent post. :yep:
Tchocky
12-07-07, 05:57 AM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context Reminds me of
Shhh. You're spoiling the flag ceremony. Now we have to start the Pledge of Allegiance all over again.
Skybird
12-07-07, 06:06 AM
I love quotes out of context, especially when they are quotes of my own. I need this. They are my precious, my one, my only. Since I visit these forums I got a soft spot for getting quoted out of context. maybe that is why always the same guys use that practice so often and time and again. They want to do me a favour. :88)
Like I said earlier i'm leaning towards Thompson but apparently Mike Huckabee is approved by, not a church, but by something far greater. Chuck Norris!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8
TteFAboB
12-07-07, 08:32 AM
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
What does the context change?
Skybird
12-07-07, 10:33 AM
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
What does the context change?
:dead:
If I sneak into your sleeping room and massively slap you in the face while you sleep, then this is something totally different than if I just pulled you out of a lake unconsiciousness, and slap you in the face to make you wake up and breathe again. That is what the context does change: meaning.
Sea Demon
12-07-07, 01:53 PM
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
I would sooner chop off the old shlong and drop the nads in the old meat grinder, turn the handle myself before I cast a vote for that rotten marxist.
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
This snopes article doesn't actually clean anything up for her. The context is quite correct. The context they show is that Hillary still believes that privately EARNED money and control of it are the domain of a federal government. According to her words, it is a federal government that should decide how much of your own private property (money) you should be able to keep. In her world, you are not an independant entity, but you very much belong to the government, and your property to. But it's all for the "common good" isn't it? :roll: You've got to roll your eyes at the people who try and clean up a blatant Marxist type of politician. In this case, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. This snopes article doesn't actually disagree with anyone who says she speaks and acts as a marxist/commie.
Kapitan_Phillips
12-07-07, 02:35 PM
Mike Huckabee. Because he's on the side of Chuck Norris.
Chuck Norris should have run.
Stupid America.
There is also the female vote, that's something which worked for Margaret Thatcher in the UK when she was voted in to be the first female PM, and has also worked in many other countries too, with many of those women voters not really interested in policies as such, but simply going for 'girl power'.
:D Chock
Pardon!
This snopes article doesn't actually clean anything up for her. The context is quite correct. The context they show is that Hillary still believes that privately EARNED money and control of it are the domain of a federal government.
I think you are wrong, she was addressing (rich) dems at a fund raising.
NEON DEON
12-07-07, 06:59 PM
This snopes article doesn't actually clean anything up for her. The context is quite correct. The context they show is that Hillary still believes that privately EARNED money and control of it are the domain of a federal government.
I think you are wrong, she was addressing (rich) dems at a fund raising.
:up:
Hillary Clinton on removing Tax cuts for the wealthy.
"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
Now that is not of context:p :p :p
Wow!
If some of you had to be classified as a donut,
Twisty would be it.
The WosMan
12-07-07, 07:04 PM
For the common good eh? I think she should make herself disappear for the common good of all of us Americans.
Sea Demon
12-07-07, 07:14 PM
This snopes article doesn't actually clean anything up for her. The context is quite correct. The context they show is that Hillary still believes that privately EARNED money and control of it are the domain of a federal government.
I think you are wrong, she was addressing (rich) dems at a fund raising.
She was addressing a group of private citizens. The amount of money they have is irrelevant. Clinton is a marxist, and it shows. When one believes that they can control a private citizen's private property at will in this way, in this case money, they are not about freedom and economic liberty. Nor are they for limited government with limited domestic power. Nor do they show anything but contempt for the average citizen, and their ability to conduct their own lives accoriding to their own wishes.
I think Wosman's comments above are spot on.
When one believes that they can control a private citizen's private property, in this case money, they are not about freedom and economic liberty.
So by your definition every country that has taxes (especially an income tax) -thereby limiting the (financial) freedom of its citizens- is communist?
The last time i looked the U.S. weren't communist so i think you don't pay any taxes, is that correct?
*packing my things*
Sea Demon
12-07-07, 08:03 PM
When one believes that they can control a private citizen's private property, in this case money, they are not about freedom and economic liberty.
So by your definition every country that has taxes (especially an income tax) -thereby limiting the (financial) freedom of its citizens- is communist?
The last time i looked the U.S. weren't communist so i think you don't pay any taxes, is that correct?
*packing my things*
Not exactly. Taxes are a necessary evil and should be thought of that way. The government does need to have a revenue source to pay for what is necessary in it's functions. But there has to be limits. What Hillary has been saying *And not out of context*, is she wants to take profits away from companies, for purposes of redistribution as she (government) sees fit. And she intends another wealth redistribution by eliminating lower tax rates on some arbitrary income level to transfer to others in the forms of tax credits and such. i.e. the hideous EITC. And of course she'll determine what those levels are. In other words..."to each according to their need". That is incompatible with the founding and principles of my nation.
NEON DEON
12-07-07, 08:13 PM
What Hillary has been saying *And not out of context*, is she wants to take profits away from companies, for purposes of redistribution as she (government) sees fit.
Oh this I have to see! :D
SHOW ME!:yep:
Sea Demon
12-07-07, 08:21 PM
What Hillary has been saying *And not out of context*, is she wants to take profits away from companies, for purposes of redistribution as she (government) sees fit.
Oh this I have to see! :D
SHOW ME!:yep:
Look at the snopes article that tries to dismiss it itself. And read her statements for yourself. Don't read the spin on it. Don't read the excuses people make for her. Read what she actually says. It's right in front of you. Of course it's up to you if you want to believe she actually believes in economic liberty and freedom despite her own unintended admission of the reverse......by her own words. I see alot of twisting by people trying to explain it away, but unfortunately for alot of Democrats, words have meaning when put together in a sentence. And cannot so easily be ran away from. I see the Democrat deconstruction of language continues unabated.:D
NEON DEON
12-07-07, 11:19 PM
What Hillary has been saying *And not out of context*, is she wants to take profits away from companies, for purposes of redistribution as she (government) sees fit.
Oh this I have to see! :D
SHOW ME!:yep:
Look at the snopes article that tries to dismiss it itself. And read her statements for yourself. Don't read the spin on it. Don't read the excuses people make for her. Read what she actually says. It's right in front of you. Of course it's up to you if you want to believe she actually believes in economic liberty and freedom despite her own unintended admission of the reverse......by her own words. I see alot of twisting by people trying to explain it away, but unfortunately for alot of Democrats, words have meaning when put together in a sentence. And cannot so easily be ran away from. I see the Democrat deconstruction of language continues unabated.:D
Just what I thought.
You cant show me.
She was talking about rolling back a tax cut and you then go off on some tangent calling her a marxcist and espousing some delusive crap about wanting to take away our private property!
Dude stop making up stuff thats not there.
Sea Demon
12-07-07, 11:49 PM
What Hillary has been saying *And not out of context*, is she wants to take profits away from companies, for purposes of redistribution as she (government) sees fit.
Oh this I have to see! :D
SHOW ME!:yep:
Look at the snopes article that tries to dismiss it itself. And read her statements for yourself. Don't read the spin on it. Don't read the excuses people make for her. Read what she actually says. It's right in front of you. Of course it's up to you if you want to believe she actually believes in economic liberty and freedom despite her own unintended admission of the reverse......by her own words. I see alot of twisting by people trying to explain it away, but unfortunately for alot of Democrats, words have meaning when put together in a sentence. And cannot so easily be ran away from. I see the Democrat deconstruction of language continues unabated.:D
Just what I thought.
You cant show me.
She was talking about rolling back a tax cut and you then go off on some tangent calling her a marxcist and espousing some delusive crap about wanting to take away our private property!
Dude stop making up stuff thats not there.
Did you actually read it? I mean did you actually read her words? Did you kow that the money you earn is your private property? Not the government? Rolling back a tax cut is giving the government authority to levy higher taxes against me and my family. In effect, taking away more of my private property. And she does mention putting money into the pockets of other people for some type of common good. Those are words she actually used. I don't know, maybe you think money earned by an individual actually belongs to the government. And it is a governments prerogative to tell people what they can keep. And what they must allow to be used as a way to put money in other people's pockets as a means of economic stimulus. In other words give to those who don't have as much. If that doesn't look like a basic tenet of Marxism, I don't know what is. As I said before, once words are put into sentences, you can't just run away from them. I guess that doesn't seem to apply as much if you're a democrat. In the world of the modern democrat party, words can have any meaning......especially for political implications.
Radtgaeb
12-07-07, 11:57 PM
Remember to vote early and vote often if you live in Florida!:rotfl:
In Florida; your vote counts, and counts, and counts, and counts, and......
Hey, wait a minute, Neal! You forgot Mike Gravel! *many people shrug their shoulders as if to say "who's that?"*
waste gate
12-07-07, 11:58 PM
That all depends on what the definition of 'is' is.
Many liberals have problems with defining right from wrong. Most everything is a shade of gray. So much so that everything is brought to the lowest denominator.
Therefore there is no difference between right and wrong and why it is so easy to call terrorists freedom fighters. Welcome to the secular world of evil is good and right is wrong. Thank you public schools.
Sea Demon
12-08-07, 12:09 AM
Here's Mrs. Clinton on economic stimulus.....
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22128401/site/14081545/page/4/
I'M ALL FOR STIMULUS BUT I'M GOING TO DO STIMULUS THE RIGHT WAY. WE'RE GOING TO DO STIMULUS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND PART OF THE WAY WE'LL PAY FOR IT IS BY LETTING THE TAX CUTS ON THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS EXPIRE. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY SET OF CONDITIONS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY IN JANUARY 2009. UP UNTIL THEN, WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY AND ATTITUDE IN THIS ADMINISTRATION AND LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO COME ON YOUR SHOW WHO ARE GUNG HO, PROTECT THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS. THAT WILL NOT WORK IF THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN. YOU NEED MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF TENS OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. THAT'S WHAT I INTEND TO DO.
I love the class envy that this woman uses to stir up a hornets nest. I'm no billionaire, yet the tax cuts have benefited me and my family. And it has helped offset that dang AMT that has been hitting me for the last few years. Her views are a recipe for economic slowdown and loss of incentive in investment. I don't know, but it is my money that I'm earning. Me and my income are not the domain of Hillary Clinton and her grand goals of income redistribution. And there is something quite irritating about a dem politician telling me that the tax cuts are somehow not beneficial for economic growth, or alluding to an unfairness of it. When our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, inflation is in check, and the markets have never seen better numbers. Not to mention my own company has seen real growth and has spurred some job creation as a result. I have a feeling that Mrs. Clinton intends to screw with Capital gains as well. The facts don't tally with Mrs. Clinton's views, unfortunately for her.
P.S. You ought to read this whole CNBC transcript. Hillary's thoughts on the subprime mess are ...well.....interesting.....
waste gate
12-08-07, 12:14 AM
Here's Mrs. Clinton on economic stimulus.....
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22128401/site/14081545/page/4/
I'M ALL FOR STIMULUS BUT I'M GOING TO DO STIMULUS THE RIGHT WAY. WE'RE GOING TO DO STIMULUS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND PART OF THE WAY WE'LL PAY FOR IT IS BY LETTING THE TAX CUTS ON THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS EXPIRE. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY SET OF CONDITIONS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY IN JANUARY 2009. UP UNTIL THEN, WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY AND ATTITUDE IN THIS ADMINISTRATION AND LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO COME ON YOUR SHOW WHO ARE GUNG HO, PROTECT THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS. THAT WILL NOT WORK IF THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN. YOU NEED MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF TENS OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. THAT'S WHAT I INTEND TO DO.
I love the class envy that this woman uses to stir up a hornets nest. I'm no billionaire, yet the tax cuts have benefited me and my family. And it has helped offset that dang AMT that has been hitting me for the last few years. I don't know, but it is my money that I'm earning. Me and my income are not the domain of Hillary Clinton and her grand goals of income redistribution. And there is something quite irritating about a dem politician telling me that the tax cuts are somehow not beneficial for economic growth, or alluding to an unfairness of it. When our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, inflation is in check, and the markets have never seen better numbers. Not to mention my own company has seen real growth and has spurred some job creation as a result. The facts don't tally with Mrs. Clinton's views, unfortunately for her.
P.S. You ought to read this whole CNBC transcript. Hillary's thoughts on the subprime mess are ...well.....interesting.....
:up:
NEON DEON
12-08-07, 03:14 AM
Here's Mrs. Clinton on economic stimulus.....
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22128401/site/14081545/page/4/
I'M ALL FOR STIMULUS BUT I'M GOING TO DO STIMULUS THE RIGHT WAY. WE'RE GOING TO DO STIMULUS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AND PART OF THE WAY WE'LL PAY FOR IT IS BY LETTING THE TAX CUTS ON THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS EXPIRE. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERY SET OF CONDITIONS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO BE HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY IN JANUARY 2009. UP UNTIL THEN, WE HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY AND ATTITUDE IN THIS ADMINISTRATION AND LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO COME ON YOUR SHOW WHO ARE GUNG HO, PROTECT THE TAX CUTS FOR THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS. THAT WILL NOT WORK IF THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN. YOU NEED MONEY IN THE POCKETS OF TENS OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS. THAT'S WHAT I INTEND TO DO.
I love the class envy that this woman uses to stir up a hornets nest. I'm no billionaire, yet the tax cuts have benefited me and my family. And it has helped offset that dang AMT that has been hitting me for the last few years. Her views are a recipe for economic slowdown and loss of incentive in investment. I don't know, but it is my money that I'm earning. Me and my income are not the domain of Hillary Clinton and her grand goals of income redistribution. And there is something quite irritating about a dem politician telling me that the tax cuts are somehow not beneficial for economic growth, or alluding to an unfairness of it. When our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, inflation is in check, and the markets have never seen better numbers. Not to mention my own company has seen real growth and has spurred some job creation as a result. I have a feeling that Mrs. Clinton intends to screw with Capital gains as well. The facts don't tally with Mrs. Clinton's views, unfortunately for her.
P.S. You ought to read this whole CNBC transcript. Hillary's thoughts on the subprime mess are ...well.....interesting.....
Oh yeah the Dollar is in the tank, gas prices are heading to 4 bucks a gallon, health care costs are thru the roof, and the housing market (where most average Americans have their wealth) is taking a nose dive.
Inflation in check.
Not where it counts to John Q. Public.
BTW
Take a look at posts 29 and 36 here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=94891&page=2
TteFAboB
12-08-07, 08:35 AM
A quote taken out of context HURRAY
Gotta dig up that thread where this first showed up, there was a link to the whole statement...
Here it is...
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=124210
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp <--- and here with context
What does the context change?
:dead:
If I sneak into your sleeping room and massively slap you in the face while you sleep, then this is something totally different than if I just pulled you out of a lake unconsiciousness, and slap you in the face to make you wake up and breathe again. That is what the context does change: meaning.
You're Hillary Clinton?! Please, don't touch me! :-?
What she is saying is that if you are well off, you can have things taken away from you for the common good. Principle established, then it's a matter of defining these two variables, well-offness and common good, to dictate whether things will be taken away.
The principle is unaltered by context, which is why it can serve itself from any context, real or not, to find justification. A greater common good would justify a greater portion being taken away and from a greater number of people. Richness can be painted relatively, as a poor American is well off when compared to the poor in Soweto.
In any case the maxim that the well-off can have things taken away on behalf of the common good remains the same.
This snopes article doesn't actually clean anything up for her. The context is quite correct. The context they show is that Hillary still believes that privately EARNED money and control of it are the domain of a federal government.
I think you are wrong, she was addressing (rich) dems at a fund raising.
She was addressing a group of private citizens. The amount of money they have is irrelevant. Clinton is a marxist, and it shows. When one believes that they can control a private citizen's private property at will in this way, in this case money, they are not about freedom and economic liberty. Nor are they for limited government with limited domestic power. Nor do they show anything but contempt for the average citizen, and their ability to conduct their own lives accoriding to their own wishes.
I think Wosman's comments above are spot on.
That leaves my government where? :huh:
In my country she would be a right wing politica.
I think your a bit paranoia about left wing politictians.:yep:
Skybird
12-08-07, 09:03 AM
What she is saying is that if you are well off, you can have things taken away from you for the common good.
Taxation, and no community and nation can live without rasising taxes. that people who can afford it, are called to spend a bit more than those who cannot affor the same tax level as for the rich, comes by call of reason.
Principle established, then it's a matter of defining these two variables, well-offness and common good, to dictate whether things will be taken away.
How spectacular wording is needed ("Things are taken away from you!" - Robbery...!:huh: TREASON...!!! :arrgh!: ) to only avoid to admit that no state can exist without taxes. And sharing a bit with the weak and disadvantaged in life, plus supporting the structures of the community (health, traffic, education, constitutions, etc).
The principle is unaltered by context, which is why it can serve itself from any context, real or not, to find justification. A greater common good would justify a greater portion being taken away and from a greater number of people. Richness can be painted relatively, as a poor American is well off when compared to the poor in Soweto.
If you live under a bridge, it does not matter if the bridge is in Soveto, or a Western nation. and in the West, many people live under bridges. and they become more. there is even rumour that more and more of those in free social downfall, are welltrained specialists, academics...
It surprises me time and again that nation where so many people are eager to point out how very much christian they are, is so very easy in downtalking the fate of the many loosers in it's society, or reduce them to a handful of schemes about laziness, betrayal, and crime, and show no support, will to help, and leave it to a voluntary issue of the one, but not turn it into an obligation of the community. Is it in the bible written: he who lies defenseless on the ground, kick him and forget him and let him see come along all by himself, for that is his well-deserved fate when not being stromng enough all by himself? Hardly.
Europe is exaggerating it. America is understating it. somewehre in the middle between these twop extremes lies the golden path of moderation I would like to see practiced, ignoring any schematic stereotypes and generalizing millions and dozens of millions, but keeping the eye open for the characteristics of the single individual case. Far too many people are falling down the social lettet today and cannot heklpt it, and it is not their fault, but that of greedy business, mismanagement, flawed policies, and rsiky operation by leaders wasting hundred of millions without a sense of responsibility becasue they risk nothing and it is not their money - the bill always gets payed by the man on the street. I still know some social workers in berlin, frankfurt. What they sometimes told me, they instead should tell some of the many self-righteous high-nosed rich people who in offices often lay the basis for these people's downfalls.
In any case the maxim that the well-off can have things taken away on behalf of the common good remains the same.
That is wrong. Raising regular taxes in principle is something totally different than the compulsory expropriation in extreme left examples of ideology. Calling some politicians a Marxist just because he/she wants to raise taxes and maybe clean some injuistice in it by which the rich take benefits, and the poor have to pay even more relative shares of what little they have, only illustrates black-white fanatism.
Beside religious fundamentalism, firearms, military, - taxes and social/health insurrances seem to be one of the things were European and American people show the greatest differences in cultural mentality. Amercians probably still are with their minds in the times of conquering the West and most of the times being on their own, while europeans have a longer history where many conflicts arose from unsolved social problems and injustices, and freedom was only to be won by moving together and making mutual caretaking more obligatory than just leave it to the good will of feudal rulers and egoist aristocrats - which all too often let their people down.
TteFAboB
12-08-07, 10:07 AM
Is that in or out of context?
Skybird, have you ever entered a Christian Church in the US? Every Sunday people join together to donate to various projects, aside from paying for the maintenance of the church itself, be informed of which members of the community are in need of help and provide aid, be it assistance at home, helping find them a new job or just plain money. Why don't you ask the German state to pay you an educational visit to the surroundings of Richmond, VA, so that you can put in a better perspective your notion of what a strong bonded community is like?
Raising regular taxes in principle is something totally different than the compulsory expropriation in extreme left example of ideology. Calling some politicians a Marxist just because he/she wants to raise taxes and maybe clean some injuistice in it by which the rich take benefits, and the poor have to pay even more relative shares of what little they have, only illustrates black-white fanatism.
Communist Manifesto's directive number two:
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.
(...)
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
(...)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Even if she wasn't a Marxist, in this particular point they do meet.
NEON DEON
12-08-07, 11:54 AM
Set A contains a,b,and c.
Set B contains c,d, and e.
While set A and B intersect, they do not equal each other.
Just because a shark swims in the ocean it does not make him a whale.;)
Sea Demon
12-08-07, 03:34 PM
Set A contains a,b,and c.
Set B contains c,d, and e.
While set A and B intersect, they do not equal each other.
Just because a shark swims in the ocean it does not make him a whale.;)
:) That's OK, NEON. Believe what you wish. Apparently her words can mean whatever her supporters want to believe she said.
NEON DEON
12-08-07, 05:18 PM
Set A contains a,b,and c.
Set B contains c,d, and e.
While set A and B intersect, they do not equal each other.
Just because a shark swims in the ocean it does not make him a whale.;)
It has become apparent to me that if Hillary gave a speech advocating principles of nazism directly, you would be here denying she was a nazi. :) That's OK, NEON. Believe what you wish. Apparently her words can mean whatever her supporters want to believe she said.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 (Thanks to Alicia Butler.)
"See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction."—Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003
"[A]s you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say."—Washington, D.C., Oct. 28, 2003
"God speaks through me."—Smoketown, Pennsylvania, July 16, 2004
George Bush
So does this mean George and the Republicans want to hurt US citizens,we are not free, he is a prophet, a dictator, and a traitor?
:p :p :p
Skybird
12-09-07, 07:24 AM
Is that in or out of context?
Skybird, have you ever entered a Christian Church in the US? Every Sunday people join together to donate to various projects, aside from paying for the maintenance of the church itself, be informed of which members of the community are in need of help and provide aid, be it assistance at home, helping find them a new job or just plain money. Why don't you ask the German state to pay you an educational visit to the surroundings of Richmond, VA, so that you can put in a better perspective your notion of what a strong bonded community is like?
Raising regular taxes in principle is something totally different than the compulsory expropriation in extreme left example of ideology. Calling some politicians a Marxist just because he/she wants to raise taxes and maybe clean some injuistice in it by which the rich take benefits, and the poor have to pay even more relative shares of what little they have, only illustrates black-white fanatism.
Communist Manifesto's directive number two:
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.
(...)
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
(...)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Even if she wasn't a Marxist, in this particular point they do meet.
The heavy progressive income text in Wetsern nations begins at entry levels - what do I know - around 15%, and reaches as high as 35 or 38%.
what is so damn wrong with that? that John Bluecollar Smith earning a 1000 bucks per month get a lower tax rate, and Bill Jewelcase Morgan earning a million per month pays more? With the above numbers, it still leaves John Smith wioth 850 dollars, and Bill Morgan with 650.000.
And what is it that Hillary Clinton is indicated by you to follow the Communist manifesto...? evben your own government now raises taxes. Is Bush a communist? You Americans are almost pathologic about the sound of the word communism itself, i sometiomes think. the world is either black ir white -american, or communist. :lol: that is total, complete nonsens of yours! Social, socialism, communism are three totally different things.
And if that voluntary wellfare thing would work so well your way, one is wondering why there are so many ghetto-like areas in major cities, and so many people are living on the streets, and are described to be poor by statistical criteria (poor= being without anincome that is sufficient to secure your living existence). Without doubt you will now raise question sabout what poor "really" means and how relative it is and that you people are even free to receive minimum treatement in emergency ambulances, and I could point at the consensus bureau for 2005 saying there are 37 million americans living in poor conditions and that 18% of the children are living in hoiuseholds defined as "poor", and I could point at the phenomenonen that many people earn less although working more, and sometimes have three or four jobs and 14-16 hours work per day and still cannot feed their family, and that threatment in free emergency stations only is minimal and does not include more expensive procedures and madication that really would be needed to help somebody with a more complex illness or injury. I could also point at Germany where also massive cuts in fundings for youth work, children caretaking in problem families and social wellfare took place in recent years, and as a result our numbers of family collapses, children living in misery, poverty in general, and from that: crime rates and street violance and violance at schools have almost exploded, and not one week passes wiothout new news about family dramas wehre children came to death by parents facing ultimate economical dispair until their cognitive safeties sprung out and they went on blind amok.
But all that debate will be like ping-pong, and none of us will change his mind. Also, I do not see why church collections are an argument to make communal help for those in need of it not obilgatory for the majority, by raising taxes, and making social and health insurrances obligatory as well. I also doubt that it is in general like you describe everywhre, and in major cities and metropoles. In our German rural, isolated places life can be idyllic, yes. While living in Berlin or frankfurt or the Ruhrgebiet - wich essentially is a dozen cities molten into just one - is less pleasant.
A christmas poem:
Being Poor
Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.
Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.
Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.
Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.
Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.
Being poor is living next to the freeway.
Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.
Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn't mind when you ask for help.
Being poor is off-brand toys.
Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.
Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.
Being poor is hoping your kids don't have a growth spurt.
Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn't have make dinner tonight because you're not hungry anyway.
Being poor is Goodwill underwear.
Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.
Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.
Being poor is your kid's school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.
Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.
Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you.
Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.
Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.
Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.
Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger's trash.
Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.
Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.
Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.
Being poor is not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids.
Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.
Being poor is not talking to that girl because she'll probably just laugh at your clothes.
Being poor is hoping you'll be invited for dinner.
Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.
Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.
Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.
Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you don't have any books in your home.
Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.
Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually stupid.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually lazy.
Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.
Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn't bought first.
Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that's two extra packages for every dollar.
Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old.
Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.
Being poor is knowing you're being judged.
Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.
Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.
Being poor is deciding that it's all right to base a relationship on shelter.
Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.
Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.
Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won't listen to you beg them against doing so.
Being poor is a cough that doesn't go away.
Being poor is making sure you don't spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.
Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.
Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.
Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.
Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.
Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.
Being poor is running in place.
Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave.
This poll is missing several candidates.
sunvalleyslim
12-09-07, 07:11 PM
Hard to say at this point...........some are saying that Al Gore will be a dark horse at the end. Possibly getting the Dem nomination.......Global Warming is becoming a big issue
The WosMan
12-09-07, 07:13 PM
Is that in or out of context?
Skybird, have you ever entered a Christian Church in the US? Every Sunday people join together to donate to various projects, aside from paying for the maintenance of the church itself, be informed of which members of the community are in need of help and provide aid, be it assistance at home, helping find them a new job or just plain money. Why don't you ask the German state to pay you an educational visit to the surroundings of Richmond, VA, so that you can put in a better perspective your notion of what a strong bonded community is like?
Raising regular taxes in principle is something totally different than the compulsory expropriation in extreme left example of ideology. Calling some politicians a Marxist just because he/she wants to raise taxes and maybe clean some injuistice in it by which the rich take benefits, and the poor have to pay even more relative shares of what little they have, only illustrates black-white fanatism.
Communist Manifesto's directive number two:
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.
(...)
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
(...)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Even if she wasn't a Marxist, in this particular point they do meet.
The heavy progressive income text in Wetsern nations begins at entry levels - what do I know - around 15%, and reaches as high as 35 or 38%.
what is so damn wrong with that? that John Bluecollar Smith earning a 1000 bucks per month get a lower tax rate, and Bill Jewelcase Morgan earning a million per month pays more? With the above numbers, it still leaves John Smith wioth 850 dollars, and Bill Morgan with 650.000.
And what is it that Hillary Clinton is indicated by you to follow the Communist manifesto...? evben your own government now raises taxes. Is Bush a communist? You Americans are almost pathologic about the sound of the word communism itself, i sometiomes think. the world is either black ir white -american, or communist. :lol: that is total, complete nonsens of yours! Social, socialism, communism are three totally different things.
And if that voluntary wellfare thing would work so well your way, one is wondering why there are so many ghetto-like areas in major cities, and so many people are living on the streets, and are described to be poor by statistical criteria (poor= being without anincome that is sufficient to secure your living existence). Without doubt you will now raise question sabout what poor "really" means and how relative it is and that you people are even free to receive minimum treatement in emergency ambulances, and I could point at the consensus bureau for 2005 saying there are 37 million americans living in poor conditions and that 18% of the children are living in hoiuseholds defined as "poor", and I could point at the phenomenonen that many people earn less although working more, and sometimes have three or four jobs and 14-16 hours work per day and still cannot feed their family, and that threatment in free emergency stations only is minimal and does not include more expensive procedures and madication that really would be needed to help somebody with a more complex illness or injury. I could also point at Germany where also massive cuts in fundings for youth work, children caretaking in problem families and social wellfare took place in recent years, and as a result our numbers of family collapses, children living in misery, poverty in general, and from that: crime rates and street violance and violance at schools have almost exploded, and not one week passes wiothout new news about family dramas wehre children came to death by parents facing ultimate economical dispair until their cognitive safeties sprung out and they went on blind amok.
But all that debate will be like ping-pong, and none of us will change his mind. Also, I do not see why church collections are an argument to make communal help for those in need of it not obilgatory for the majority, by raising taxes, and making social and health insurrances obligatory as well. I also doubt that it is in general like you describe everywhre, and in major cities and metropoles. In our German rural, isolated places life can be idyllic, yes. While living in Berlin or frankfurt or the Ruhrgebiet - wich essentially is a dozen cities molten into just one - is less pleasant.
A christmas poem:
Being Poor
Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.
Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.
Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.
Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.
Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.
Being poor is living next to the freeway.
Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.
Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn't mind when you ask for help.
Being poor is off-brand toys.
Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.
Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.
Being poor is hoping your kids don't have a growth spurt.
Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn't have make dinner tonight because you're not hungry anyway.
Being poor is Goodwill underwear.
Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.
Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.
Being poor is your kid's school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.
Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.
Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you.
Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.
Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.
Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.
Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger's trash.
Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.
Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.
Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.
Being poor is not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids.
Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.
Being poor is not talking to that girl because she'll probably just laugh at your clothes.
Being poor is hoping you'll be invited for dinner.
Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.
Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.
Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.
Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you don't have any books in your home.
Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.
Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually stupid.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually lazy.
Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.
Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn't bought first.
Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that's two extra packages for every dollar.
Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old.
Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.
Being poor is knowing you're being judged.
Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.
Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.
Being poor is deciding that it's all right to base a relationship on shelter.
Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.
Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.
Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won't listen to you beg them against doing so.
Being poor is a cough that doesn't go away.
Being poor is making sure you don't spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.
Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.
Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.
Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.
Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.
Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.
Being poor is running in place.
Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave.
You obviously don't know much about this country. Mr. Joe Bluecollar makes about $75 dollars + an hour working at the factory. That is why US industry is in the state it is and the auto manufacturers are getting the hell out of here. This must be the only country in the world that a guy with no education can sweep the floor at Ford or GM for 25 or 30 years and get paid over $100,000. I see this first hand because some of these guys are my clients with their investments. They cry about their life and money and take it all the way to the bank. That is why illegal aliens are so attractive, they will come in and do a skilled trade like carpentry or roofing or drywall hanging and charge you 1/8th what an American will.
NEON DEON
12-09-07, 10:02 PM
Is that in or out of context?
Skybird, have you ever entered a Christian Church in the US? Every Sunday people join together to donate to various projects, aside from paying for the maintenance of the church itself, be informed of which members of the community are in need of help and provide aid, be it assistance at home, helping find them a new job or just plain money. Why don't you ask the German state to pay you an educational visit to the surroundings of Richmond, VA, so that you can put in a better perspective your notion of what a strong bonded community is like?
Raising regular taxes in principle is something totally different than the compulsory expropriation in extreme left example of ideology. Calling some politicians a Marxist just because he/she wants to raise taxes and maybe clean some injuistice in it by which the rich take benefits, and the poor have to pay even more relative shares of what little they have, only illustrates black-white fanatism.
Communist Manifesto's directive number two:
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state.
(...)
These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.
(...)
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Even if she wasn't a Marxist, in this particular point they do meet.
The heavy progressive income text in Wetsern nations begins at entry levels - what do I know - around 15%, and reaches as high as 35 or 38%.
what is so damn wrong with that? that John Bluecollar Smith earning a 1000 bucks per month get a lower tax rate, and Bill Jewelcase Morgan earning a million per month pays more? With the above numbers, it still leaves John Smith wioth 850 dollars, and Bill Morgan with 650.000.
And what is it that Hillary Clinton is indicated by you to follow the Communist manifesto...? evben your own government now raises taxes. Is Bush a communist? You Americans are almost pathologic about the sound of the word communism itself, i sometiomes think. the world is either black ir white -american, or communist. :lol: that is total, complete nonsens of yours! Social, socialism, communism are three totally different things.
And if that voluntary wellfare thing would work so well your way, one is wondering why there are so many ghetto-like areas in major cities, and so many people are living on the streets, and are described to be poor by statistical criteria (poor= being without anincome that is sufficient to secure your living existence). Without doubt you will now raise question sabout what poor "really" means and how relative it is and that you people are even free to receive minimum treatement in emergency ambulances, and I could point at the consensus bureau for 2005 saying there are 37 million americans living in poor conditions and that 18% of the children are living in hoiuseholds defined as "poor", and I could point at the phenomenonen that many people earn less although working more, and sometimes have three or four jobs and 14-16 hours work per day and still cannot feed their family, and that threatment in free emergency stations only is minimal and does not include more expensive procedures and madication that really would be needed to help somebody with a more complex illness or injury. I could also point at Germany where also massive cuts in fundings for youth work, children caretaking in problem families and social wellfare took place in recent years, and as a result our numbers of family collapses, children living in misery, poverty in general, and from that: crime rates and street violance and violance at schools have almost exploded, and not one week passes wiothout new news about family dramas wehre children came to death by parents facing ultimate economical dispair until their cognitive safeties sprung out and they went on blind amok.
But all that debate will be like ping-pong, and none of us will change his mind. Also, I do not see why church collections are an argument to make communal help for those in need of it not obilgatory for the majority, by raising taxes, and making social and health insurrances obligatory as well. I also doubt that it is in general like you describe everywhre, and in major cities and metropoles. In our German rural, isolated places life can be idyllic, yes. While living in Berlin or frankfurt or the Ruhrgebiet - wich essentially is a dozen cities molten into just one - is less pleasant.
A christmas poem:
Being Poor
Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.
Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.
Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they're what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there's not an $800 car in America that's worth a damn.
Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.
Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends' houses but never has friends over to yours.
Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won't hear you say "I get free lunch" when you get to the cashier.
Being poor is living next to the freeway.
Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.
Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn't mind when you ask for help.
Being poor is off-brand toys.
Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.
Being poor is knowing you can't leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.
Being poor is hoping your kids don't have a growth spurt.
Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn't have make dinner tonight because you're not hungry anyway.
Being poor is Goodwill underwear.
Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.
Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.
Being poor is your kid's school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.
Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.
Being poor is relying on people who don't give a damn about you.
Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.
Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.
Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.
Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger's trash.
Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.
Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.
Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.
Being poor is not taking the job because you can't find someone you trust to watch your kids.
Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.
Being poor is not talking to that girl because she'll probably just laugh at your clothes.
Being poor is hoping you'll be invited for dinner.
Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.
Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.
Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.
Being poor is your kid's teacher assuming you don't have any books in your home.
Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.
Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually stupid.
Being poor is people surprised to discover you're not actually lazy.
Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.
Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn't bought first.
Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that's two extra packages for every dollar.
Being poor is having to live with choices you didn't know you made when you were 14 years old.
Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.
Being poor is knowing you're being judged.
Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.
Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.
Being poor is deciding that it's all right to base a relationship on shelter.
Being poor is knowing you really shouldn't spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.
Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.
Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won't listen to you beg them against doing so.
Being poor is a cough that doesn't go away.
Being poor is making sure you don't spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.
Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.
Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.
Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.
Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.
Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.
Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.
Being poor is seeing how few options you have.
Being poor is running in place.
Being poor is people wondering why you didn't leave.
You obviously don't know much about this country. Mr. Joe Bluecollar makes about $75 dollars + an hour working at the factory. That is why US industry is in the state it is and the auto manufacturers are getting the hell out of here. This must be the only country in the world that a guy with no education can sweep the floor at Ford or GM for 25 or 30 years and get paid over $100,000. I see this first hand because some of these guys are my clients with their investments. They cry about their life and money and take it all the way to the bank. That is why illegal aliens are so attractive, they will come in and do a skilled trade like carpentry or roofing or drywall hanging and charge you 1/8th what an American will.
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/AWI.html
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
But still pretty darn good for a factory worker. I know telecom technicians who don't make that...
NEON DEON
12-09-07, 10:48 PM
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
But still pretty darn good for a factory worker. I know telecom technicians who don't make that...
Toyota Motor is looking for assembly workers to work in Southern California at $19 and change. I have the exact rate back at the office. I do not know if you have to join a union or not but that is still not $75 an hour. $75 an hour sounds like someone who has been working in the industry for a long time.
The WosMan
12-09-07, 11:07 PM
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
But still pretty darn good for a factory worker. I know telecom technicians who don't make that...
Toyota Motor is looking for assembly workers to work in Southern California at $19 and change. I have the exact rate back at the office. I do not know if you have to join a union or not but that is still not $75 an hour. $75 an hour sounds like someone who has been working in the industry for a long time.
Likely it is non-union if it is Toyota. $75 or more an hour is what the guys that work for Ford and GM in the Cleveland area around me are making, trust me, I know many of them, some are my clients. UAW is a very powerful union. Those wages plus the union health insurance which is nearly 100% coverage is why your cars cost $30,000+.
$19 an hour isn't bad money for many people, you could live decent off of that if you weren't the typical "I need to have it all so I am up to my waist in credit card bills and debt" american. Plus those guys work a lot of OT which is either time and a half or double time or even triple during extra shifts and holidays. Many college graduates in white collar jobs don't make that much.
Stealth Hunter
12-10-07, 12:42 AM
I think you have no clue what you're talking about. Rig the voting process? Care to explain how?
Very simple. Are you familiar with how easy it is to manipulate electronic voting? A kid during George W.'s election added a thousand votes in Vermont to his ballot. With the amount of power the government has over such things, it would be much easier to add/subtract votes. It's been done, and it will be done again (whether or not in this election, well, that's yet to be seen...).
By the way, try learning to respect the opinions and ideas of others AND shut the **** up instead of being a jackass.
I think you have no clue what you're talking about. Rig the voting process? Care to explain how?
Very simple. Are you familiar with how easy it is to manipulate electronic voting?
Actually yes, i have several friends who work at GTech, one of the main manufacturers of electronic voting machines in the country, what's your source?
A kid during George W.'s election added a thousand votes in Vermont to his ballot.
A "kid" eh? I did a cursory search for the news story but couldn't find it. I assume you have a link or some kind of proof of this allegation other than "some kid" told you?
With the amount of power the government has over such things, it would be much easier to add/subtract votes. It's been done, and it will be done again (whether or not in this election, well, that's yet to be seen...).
I'll agree that it would be easier than paper votes I suppose, but as far as it having acutally been done in a US election, that's nonsense; a completely unsupported allegation. Provide some proof of this claim or withdraw the comment.
By the way, try learning to respect the opinions and ideas of others AND shut the **** up instead of being a jackass.
Where do you get off telling me to shut up Sonny? FYI if I don't appear to respect your opinions it's because so far you have made nothing but juvenile pronouncements without one shred of proof to back them up. A "kid rigged the voting machines" indeed. For someone who demands respect for his people you sure aren't demonstrating that you deserve any.
geetrue
12-10-07, 02:14 PM
Hard to say at this point...........some are saying that Al Gore will be a dark horse at the end. Possibly getting the Dem nomination.......Global Warming is becoming a big issue
Surprise, surprise Hillary Clinton will chose Edwards or Al Gore for her running mate (vice president), but it's too late for Al Gore to get on the (dark horse?) ticket.
Now for some funny news did you hear Obama's introduction of that well known and well respected celiberty Ophra Winfrey.
"How many of you would you like to see Ophra be my running mate"?
No comment ... vanity was so thick I turned the channel
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
But still pretty darn good for a factory worker. I know telecom technicians who don't make that...
No wonder you need two jobs in the states to pay your mortgage. :yep:
AdlerGrosmann
12-10-07, 11:09 PM
And..who actually has the opinion that Hillary Clinton will probably be assassinated? I do..:smug:
(And so..he points to the exact location the sniper will be to assassinate Hillary..)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/AdlerGrosmann/pommernqp0.jpg
NEON DEON
12-10-07, 11:25 PM
And..who actually has the opinion that Hillary Clinton will probably be assassinated? I do..:smug:
(And so..he points to the exact location the sniper will be to assassinate Hillary..)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/AdlerGrosmann/pommernqp0.jpg
Is the one on the left Dick Cheney? :yep:
:D
Onkel Neal
12-11-07, 12:21 AM
Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.
Holy crap! I just found out I'm poor. Don't tell anyone. ;)
Onkel Neal
12-11-07, 12:23 AM
By the way, try learning to respect the opinions and ideas of others AND shut the **** up instead of being a jackass.
No more of that, please. :nope: The Brig is very cold this time of year.
NEON DEON
12-11-07, 02:37 AM
The average wage in 2006 was $38,651.41.
That is $18.58 an hour
That is a far car from your $75 an hour factory job.
But still pretty darn good for a factory worker. I know telecom technicians who don't make that...
No wonder you need two jobs in the states to pay your mortgage. :yep:
Yes you do need two incomes.
What also hurts for me is that for my wife and I $4,600 a year goes to pay for health and dental. Even at that rate it is not full coverage.
Husky42
12-12-07, 03:27 AM
There will never be a woman American president...period.
Obama will not win either I'm sorry to say because he is black.
....so the democratic party is screwed even before it has a chance.
....it will be a Republican...who, I can not say,but as time passes and World events shape things we will see.
Rudy I'm sorry to see is riding the coat tails of a tragic event "but he does have that Bush Hillbilliness about him :)"...he has no place in the arena.
Mike,Mitt,Fred, or the man with the most XP is McCain but is at the rear atm but we'll see how things unfold this year.
I count on mans prejudice in my comments about Hillary and Obama...man is too prejudiced.
Agreed and I will venture an unqualfied guess (I need to read more about the canidates than just watch them on CNN).
Mike Huckabee is my best guess:
1. He's a Baptist preacher from Arkansas
2. He wants to finish the fence by 2010 and make everyone register or go home
3. He's the right sex, the right size, the right color, the right age at 52
(John McCain is 72 and was my first choice beofre this poll)
4. He's a Republican (Democrat's raise taxes)(honest injun)
5. He's got the rural vote (that's how Bush beat Al Gore)
6. He likes country music
7. He plays in a rock n roll band that has opened for Willie Nelson
8 He looks like an all American selection to me ... Huckabee in 2008
Facts about Mike Huckabee: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0563598320071206
* Before entering politics he was a Baptist minister, leading congregations in Pine Bluff and Texarkana, Arkansas.
* Diagnosed in 2003 with Type II diabetes, he began an intensive health regimen that helped him lose 110 pounds (50 kg). He later completed four marathons and wrote a book on how to live a healthier life, "Quit Digging Yor Grave with a Knife and Fork."
* Known for his quick wit and sense of humor, he recently said of his campaign: "It's better to be called a dark horse than a dead horse," and, "There's three tickets out of Iowa -- first class, business class and coach. We hope to have one of those because otherwise you go home freight."
* Huckabee plays in a rock band called "Capitol Offense," and has opened for country singer Willie Nelson.
* He's married and has three grown children. The 52-year-old Republican was born in Hope, Arkansas, also the birthplace of former President Bill Clinton.
Mike Huckabee's immigration plan:http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/heads_up_mike_huckabees_immigr.php
The only overall problem I would have with him is his huge religious ties. I am pretty much a Republican/Conservative at heart. Farmers boy, worked on a farm growing up, ride horses, love guns and the military. The only short stick some would say would come on my view of religion and politics. They do not belong together. At all.
A minister in office is dangerous. All those issues surrounding choice are thrown out the window. And I'm sorry but I do believe people need to make their own decisions in the issue that seperates two parties. Even if I myself know I would never make that decision.
This is where Obama comes into play, I may be conservative, but I have no issue voting for him. I think his very in the middle approach is fantastic. He is new to this whole thing and doing a great job so far.
I just came back from the larry the cable guy show in Tri Cities this evening. It was fantastic and I ended up having a conversation while waiting for the show to start with a guy about this whole issue. The interesting thing surrounding it was that we both absolutely do not want crazy hilary in office. She has no real direction or plan, she will destroy our military like her husband did, she will allow immigrants into our country and give them rights. I'm not happy with Bush in this regard either, but thats another story. Hilary is nothing more then a power hungry bitch who deserves nothing. And if she ends up in office, I'll go get a better scope.
I will look into Huckabee a little bit more, but from what I recall he seemed a little extreme.
Back to Obama, he may be a Dem but this is one conservative who will have no problem voting for him if there is no viable alternative on the Right.
Right now, all i see is Ron Paul looking viable as a possible canditate for me to support. But if there is not a enough momentum, well Obama it is.
[. The only short stick some would say would come on my view of religion and politics. They do not belong together. At all.
Good point!
Because,... I find this alarming. :hmm:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7630851222567912489&q=Gods+Next+Army&total=270&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
This is a Documentary taken from channel 4 on the evangelist's in the USA.
:nope: I notice you didn't include me in the poll.
Talk about bias! :nope:
Tchocky
12-12-07, 01:15 PM
[. The only short stick some would say would come on my view of religion and politics. They do not belong together. At all.
Agreed. Something from the Economist on America's atheists, and their political impact/lack of.
http://www.economist.com/daily/news/PrinterFriendly.cfm?story_id=10277230&top_story=1
Skybird
12-12-07, 06:10 PM
[. The only short stick some would say would come on my view of religion and politics. They do not belong together. At all.
Good point!
Because,... I find this alarming. :hmm:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7630851222567912489&q=Gods+Next+Army&total=270&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
This is a Documentary taken from channel 4 on the evangelist's in the USA.
Damn, I watched it while having my dinner - ruined!
I fear this developement as much as the spreading of Islam. Fanatism, fundamentalism, believing, no matter in what's name - to hell with all of it. :down:
geetrue
12-12-07, 08:12 PM
:nope: I notice you didn't include me in the poll.
Talk about bias! :nope:
Neal didn't want a law suit due to your birth certificate ... :lol:
[. The only short stick some would say would come on my view of religion and politics. They do not belong together. At all.
Good point!
Because,... I find this alarming. :hmm:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7630851222567912489&q=Gods+Next+Army&total=270&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
This is a Documentary taken from channel 4 on the evangelist's in the USA.
Damn, I watched it while having my dinner - ruined!
I fear this developement as much as the spreading of Islam. Fanatism, fundamentalism, believing, no matter in what's name - to hell with all of it. :down:
LMAO...To HELL with all of it....hahahahaha....watched about half of it and turned it off...definitly a sinister plot to assimilate the world.
Keep on topic...these are American canidates from American backgrounds...that includes religion or lack of it. Get over it.
McCain :up: (http://www.johnmccain.com/landing/?sid=gorganic)
The WosMan
12-12-07, 08:12 PM
Okay, I just re-evaluated my view on Huckabee. After reading more about him and hearing what he said about Mitt Romney's mormon faith I don't like him anymore. I'm not mormon, don't agree with their views but he has the right to believe what he wants and shouldn't be attacked on it.
I'm back to not know who to support for sure. There is plenty of time left though, the media is rushing this crap on us so much it is ridiculous.
Carotio
12-12-07, 09:06 PM
You forgot about the candidate, which I have just presented you for in my thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126826
:lol:
Okay, I just re-evaluated my view on Huckabee. After reading more about him and hearing what he said about Mitt Romney's mormon faith I don't like him anymore. I'm not mormon, don't agree with their views but he has the right to believe what he wants and shouldn't be attacked on it.
I thought it was a pretty childish attack.
Husky42
12-13-07, 05:25 AM
Okay, I just re-evaluated my view on Huckabee. After reading more about him and hearing what he said about Mitt Romney's mormon faith I don't like him anymore. I'm not mormon, don't agree with their views but he has the right to believe what he wants and shouldn't be attacked on it.
I'm back to not know who to support for sure. There is plenty of time left though, the media is rushing this crap on us so much it is ridiculous.
And this is where I come from on the issue of Religion and politics. I knew Huckabee had no ability to hold his toungue in regards to religion or even that of another man.
If people think bushes war on terror is bad.. just think about a former minister at the helm.
Now, I'm no anti military fool by any means. I'm very much pro, just like I am pro religion. But I'm also firm in beleiving everybody has a right to believe what they want so long they do not force it on another.
I may agree with Huckabee on thoughts of mormonism but I will never attack a person of another faith for what they believe in. I am freinds of muslims, mormans, cathlolics and many christians. I distance myself from those who cannot follow their faith without a dire need to rub it in another persons face or claim how much they are disgusted/repelled by it.
Where does this mentality come into place in politics?
It should have absolutely no bearing on the political thought process. I never knew that huckabee was so flamboyant with his religion, and although I am a god fearing man, one with guns, a country boy attitude and llfestyle. I pride myself on understanding people need to make their own decisions and believe what they want, i may not be right, they may not, or we may all be right. But where does one like Huckabee get the right to say somebody else is wrong?
I have issues I stand strongly with and actually agree with Huckabee on, his plans for immigration are fantastic, in fact everything about him is appealing except for his need to be so out there with his religion.
GeeTrue, good to see a Eastern WA here :) Looks like a found a neat place!
Tchocky
12-13-07, 05:43 AM
Okay, I just re-evaluated my view on Huckabee. After reading more about him and hearing what he said about Mitt Romney's mormon faith I don't like him anymore. I'm not mormon, don't agree with their views but he has the right to believe what he wants and shouldn't be attacked on it.
I read Romney's speech, and the message was pretty clear. " I may be a Mormon, but at least I'm not an atheist."
I think if we removed biographical subjects, religious views, and pointless "wedge issues" from candidate speeches and debates, there wouldn't be a single candidate able to speak convincingly.
Skybird
12-13-07, 05:56 AM
Okay, I just re-evaluated my view on Huckabee. After reading more about him and hearing what he said about Mitt Romney's mormon faith I don't like him anymore. I'm not mormon, don't agree with their views but he has the right to believe what he wants and shouldn't be attacked on it.
I read Romney's speech, and the message was pretty clear. " I may be a Mormon, but at least I'm not an atheist."
I think if we removed biographical subjects, religious views, and pointless "wedge issues" from candidate speeches and debates, there wouldn't be a single candidate able to speak convincingly.
You just explained why even atheists must care for religion nevertheless. Or in the words of this American atheist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg)
.
Jimbuna
12-13-07, 08:08 AM
Jeez...............is this debate still going on :o
Has any one suggested Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck yet ? :hmm:
:lol:
Konovalov
12-13-07, 09:39 AM
Jeez...............is this debate still going on :o
Has any one suggested Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck yet ? :hmm:
:lol:
:lol: :lol: Yep, another debate on politics and religion again that goes around in circles. Rock on guys. :D
geetrue
12-13-07, 01:06 PM
Maturity breeds no reply's to the same old arguements ... Who's right and who's wrong?
I thought we were suppose to vote and state our case on why we voted for that particular person.
Sixteen votes for Hillary and hardly anyone stating why ... Let us not cast stones, but votes ... :yep:
Jimbuna
12-13-07, 01:49 PM
Jeez...............is this debate still going on :o
Has any one suggested Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck yet ? :hmm:
:lol:
:lol: :lol: Yep, another debate on politics and religion again that goes around in circles. Rock on guys. :D
Anyone for tennis :lol:
http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img104/2807/icontennisyk3.gif
Konovalov
12-13-07, 02:14 PM
Jeez...............is this debate still going on :o
Has any one suggested Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck yet ? :hmm:
:lol:
:lol: :lol: Yep, another debate on politics and religion again that goes around in circles. Rock on guys. :D
Anyone for tennis :lol:
http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img104/2807/icontennisyk3.gif
In the words of John McEnroe, "You cannot be serious!" ;)
http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/b281.gif
http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif http://www.langkawi.dk/smileys/u246.gif
Jimbuna
12-13-07, 03:57 PM
http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/img91/817/ideaps5.gif
http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/respect.gif
AdlerGrosmann
12-13-07, 11:28 PM
And..who actually has the opinion that Hillary Clinton will probably be assassinated? I do..:smug:
(And so..he points to the exact location the sniper will be to assassinate Hillary..)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/AdlerGrosmann/pommernqp0.jpg
Is the one on the left Dick Cheney? :yep:
:D :hmm: Really looks like it don't it? Since when did he join the Axis powers?
NEON DEON
12-14-07, 02:33 AM
And..who actually has the opinion that Hillary Clinton will probably be assassinated? I do..:smug:
(And so..he points to the exact location the sniper will be to assassinate Hillary..)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/AdlerGrosmann/pommernqp0.jpg
Is the one on the left Dick Cheney? :yep:
:D :hmm: Really looks like it don't it? Since when did he join the Axis powers?
From left to right:
Dick Cheney, George Bush, Milton Berle, Mickey Rooney, and Dominic Keating (Star Trek Enterprise) :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
The WosMan
12-17-07, 08:51 PM
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6761/captead497bd299642c7bfboy6.jpg
LOL this was on Drudge Report all day today. My grandmother at 84 has less wrinkles in her face. Someone get this dog a bag to put over her face. I can't stand Bill but no wonder the guy has to find broads on the side. If you had to wake up to this every morning you would think even fat Monica was a hottie.
Jimbuna
12-18-07, 04:52 AM
LOL this was on Drudge Report all day today. My grandmother at 84 has less wrinkles in her face. Someone get this dog a bag to put over her face. I can't stand Bill but no wonder the guy has to find broads on the side. If you had to wake up to this every morning you would think even fat Monica was a hottie.
LOL :rotfl:
Skybird
12-18-07, 07:18 AM
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6761/captead497bd299642c7bfboy6.jpg
LOL this was on Drudge Report all day today. My grandmother at 84 has less wrinkles in her face. Someone get this dog a bag to put over her face. I can't stand Bill but no wonder the guy has to find broads on the side. If you had to wake up to this every morning you would think even fat Monica was a hottie.
Your reasoning convinced me. Somebody having a face of his age should never accept to become presdient. Let's burn her at the stake.
Maybe that is why somebody tried to shoot Reagan.
Well, I am not an US citizen so I guess my opinion won't count for much, but there is one thing that will not change no matter who is running the US ( DEMOCRATS or REPUBLICANS) and that thing is: the US policy. :cry::cry:
There will be some adjustements in line with each party's doctrine but the main thrust will remain the same.:damn::damn::damn:
Tchocky
12-19-07, 05:29 PM
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/19/526463.aspx
Hmph. I wonder why he hung in so long
AdlerGrosmann
12-20-07, 02:12 AM
lmao..No wonder she may be assassinated sometime! But..I would die if I saw that face again!:dead:
geetrue
12-20-07, 02:38 PM
Even though Mrs Clinton has wrinkles (that was a cold outside day/she looks good on a stage) she will more than likely win the right to represent the Democratic Party in a bid to become the first woman president in our nations history.
If they chose Obama to represent the Democrat's he wouldn't even make it to election day. The race would be on for who would be the first redneck to put Obama on the hood of his Chevorlet.
It is for this reason that I am still partial to Senator John Mccain being our next President ... or perhaps Huckabee could use John as good running mate or even the other way around.
The next few months should prove to be a trying time for our nation to make an intelligent decision on who should run the United States of America ...
If your voting in the next major election ... try to picture whose hand you want on ten thousand warheads ... I want Senator John Mccain's hand to be there.
Zachstar
12-20-07, 03:11 PM
*PUKE*
Not the person I want to be the head of my nation's military. Things are bad enough as it is.
Ron Paul for the Republican Nomination! It is time for a return to reason!
Even though Mrs Clinton has wrinkles (that was a cold outside day/she looks good on a stage) she will more than likely win the right to represent the Democratic Party in a bid to become the first woman president in our nations history.
If they chose Obama to represent the Democrat's he wouldn't even make it to election day. The race would be on for who would be the first redneck to put Obama on the hood of his Chevorlet.
It is for this reason that I am still partial to Senator John Mccain being our next President ... or perhaps Huckabee could use John as good running mate or even the other way around.
The next few months should prove to be a trying time for our nation to make an intelligent decision on who should run the United States of America ...
If your voting in the next major election ... try to picture whose hand you want on ten thousand warheads ... I want Senator John Mccain's hand to be there.
I actually pray she does win the democratic ticket...then a Republican is a sure win. :up:...she does scare me....I almost dont care which Rep or even Edwards which I know nothing about...scary time indeed.
NEON DEON
12-22-07, 04:43 PM
Even though Mrs Clinton has wrinkles (that was a cold outside day/she looks good on a stage) she will more than likely win the right to represent the Democratic Party in a bid to become the first woman president in our nations history.
If they chose Obama to represent the Democrat's he wouldn't even make it to election day. The race would be on for who would be the first redneck to put Obama on the hood of his Chevorlet.
It is for this reason that I am still partial to Senator John Mccain being our next President ... or perhaps Huckabee could use John as good running mate or even the other way around.
The next few months should prove to be a trying time for our nation to make an intelligent decision on who should run the United States of America ...
If your voting in the next major election ... try to picture whose hand you want on ten thousand warheads ... I want Senator John Mccain's hand to be there.
I actually pray she does win the democratic ticket...then a Republican is a sure win. :up:...she does scare me....I almost dont care which Rep or even Edwards which I know nothing about...scary time indeed.
Maybe you should book Hillary for your next Halloween party and use the picture of her posted in this thread on the cover of the invitations.:D
Tchocky
12-22-07, 10:23 PM
THis made me choke on a great sandwich. I'd just made it, now my throat hurts from laughter. Damn you, American Conservative!
http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_01_14/images/magcoverlg.jpg
http://www.amconmag.com/
NEON DEON
12-22-07, 11:35 PM
THis made me choke on a great sandwich. I'd just made it, now my throat hurts from laughter. Damn you, American Conservative!
http://www.amconmag.com/2008/2008_01_14/images/magcoverlg.jpg
http://www.amconmag.com/
LOL!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Counter Attack!;) :/\\x:
Quote:
Originally Posted by danurve
http://huntny.us/images/HillaryFlag.gif
:ping: :ping: :ping: :arrgh!:
I now see why so many people do this.
Extremeism is fun!:D
The Munster
12-23-07, 07:55 AM
Not on the list but has to be STEED, he's at 10 Downing Street so the Whitehouse would be the next logical step for him :yep:
Jimbuna
12-23-07, 12:57 PM
Here is the next president flying in now http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/santa-sleigh.gif
NEON DEON
12-23-07, 03:34 PM
Here is the next president flying in now http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/santa-sleigh.gif
Merry Christmas!
With these high energy prices, I think I will be bad so I can get some coal in my stocking.:D
If Hillary has been seen at Bohemian Grove then you can bet your bottom dollar she will be President.
dean_acheson
12-27-07, 09:53 AM
Fred Thompson.
Fred Thompson.
He'd be my pick (so far).
dean_acheson
12-27-07, 02:32 PM
I've been a Thompson guy since, oh.... around 1998 or so.
dean_acheson
12-31-07, 01:07 AM
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VblJq4j0_SE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VblJq4j0_SE)
Fred to Iowa voters...
elite_hunter_sh3
12-31-07, 11:52 AM
Ron Paul is the man for the Job!!:rock::rock:
Clinton is the next bush, except she has some physical differences.... same stupidity overall..:roll:
Obama... well Obama has no clue what he is doing... he wont know what to do if he gets into office... and Barrack Hussein Obama??? after 9/11 i dont think the american public are gonna vote for him..:shifty:
at least Ron paul will get rid of the IRS get out of Iraq and actually do something about the deficit . not print more money :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRTDynbHVYQ
:rock::rock::rock:
btw why is the poll closed????:shifty::shifty:
btw why is the poll closed????:shifty::shifty:
/OT
Oh god, I read that as "why is the pool closed?" and I had an exact answer. I think that "lawlmower" guy that popped up and spammed here the other day has infected me with a nasty bug :doh:
silentrunner
12-31-07, 10:14 PM
We need a good Conservative president like someone from Opus Dei. I don't really care for any of them but I am praying that we don't end up with another Clinton.
Skybird
01-01-08, 01:44 AM
Maybe praying for somebody who is not mistaking reason and competence with hearing the voice of God would be the better option.
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MkODdVBuU
Jimbuna
01-01-08, 08:36 AM
Maybe praying for somebody who is not mistaking reason and competence with hearing the voice of God would be the better option.
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MkODdVBuU
LOL
http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/ROFLMAO.gif
Skybird
01-01-08, 04:15 PM
American voters should better pay close attention to this:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/12/22/candidates_on_executive_power_a_full_spectrum/
Author is Charlie Savage, winner of Pulitzer Price 2006 for investigating Bush's "use of signing statements". Go on, kill the messenger. The answers of the candidates will remain to be there nevertheless.
silentrunner
01-01-08, 05:09 PM
Maybe praying for somebody who is not mistaking reason and competence with hearing the voice of God would be the better option.
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MkODdVBuUI think you should visit this website.http://www.escrivaworks.org/
Skybird
01-01-08, 05:36 PM
Maybe praying for somebody who is not mistaking reason and competence with hearing the voice of God would be the better option.
:D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MkODdVBuUI think you should visit this website.http://www.escrivaworks.org/
Why? You want me to bite them to death?
silentrunner
01-01-08, 05:50 PM
I am saying that you should read some of the works by Saint Josemaria Escriva, and learn about Opus Dei.
Skybird
01-02-08, 03:14 AM
Don't get me started! ;)
You are probably not around the GT forum for much time, else you would know that every nuance of theistic religions and me are natural enemies. But when it comes to both the church and Islam, I really would prefer to see both destroyed for all the abuse of man's most precious potentials they are responsible for. the only good thing to say about the church is that it is not Islam, but that's as far as the positive goes.
:arrgh!: "Keep thy religion to thyself!"
silentrunner
01-02-08, 02:56 PM
Where there is no self-denial, there is no virtue. St. Josemaria Escriva
To become a soul of prayer one must deny himself the regular sinfull human activites.
Skybird
01-02-08, 03:02 PM
Good ol' Arnie definitely has some healthy attributes and views on things! :up:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-526202,00.html
(...)
SPIEGEL: Your party makes a big deal out of God and the Bible. Do you pray in office?
SCHWARZENEGGER: I don't pray in office, but I pray.
SPIEGEL: How important is faith for politics? You have two candidates on the Republican side, Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney, who are talking a lot about faith. Mike Huckabee's favorite Proverb is:"Trust in the Lord, and lean not upon thine own understanding." Do you think it qualifies him to be President?
SCHWARZENEGGER: I cannot say how much he means what he says, because candidates sometimes say things to get a point across.
SPIEGEL: Imagine he meant it.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Then I would say it is a big mistake if you lead by having God guide you. I think it is important that we recognize there is a God, and I think it is great when someone lives by the Bible. I also think it is great when you have your own religion and you are a religious person. But I think you have got to keep politics and religion as far apart as possible.
SPIEGEL: You grew up in Austria and you have lived in Germany. How much do you think this experience has helped you in your political career? It is certainly a different biography than most Americans have.
SCHWARZENEGGER: I would say that you inevitably think more globally about decisions rather than relying solely on an American way of thinking. When you are in the movie business you always need a story for your film to have a universal appeal. That way, you always get the money in and become much more successful financially. I think the same is true in politics. I always check out what the world is doing -- not just the US. For example, I look at what lessons we can learn from Shanghai on port security or what we can learn from the Netherlands on levees. We don't always have to reinvent the wheel.
SPIEGEL: American presidents haven't always followed that philosophy -- particularly the one currently inhabiting the White House.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Whether it's for diplomacy or business or even show business, I think it's critical to learn all you can about the countries and cultures you have to interact with. It can be daunting because there is so much to know but it will increase your chance of success every time.
SPIEGEL: Obama would agree with you. He claims that having lived in Indonesia for a couple of years gives him a good perspective on foreign politics.
SCHWARZENEGGER: I totally understand that. Living overseas can show you another way of thinking and expose you to new ideas and experiences. But Hillary Clinton probably argues that she has dealt much more with leaders of foreign countries, and therefore, she is more experienced. Which experience will make a better President? I think both would be able to handle foreign policy situations.
(...)
SPIEGEL: Could you imagine being a cabinet member in a bi-partisan government under Hillary Clinton?
SCHWARZENEGGER: I work every day with Democrats, and I work every day with Republicans. To me, I don't see a difference. There is a difference in opinions, but I enjoy working with people that have a different opinion than I do because you can get much more accomplished. When you come together with different opinions, different backgrounds, I think you come up with better ideas, and I, for instance, welcome the combination that we have right now in Sacramento with a Democratic legislature and a Republican governor.
Pity that by constitution's rules he is not allowed to terminate some of the competition. :lol: All in all he did far more impressive in office than I would have ever imagined when he was elected years back. When I remember correctly I somewhat laughed about him to be over-ambitious. I wouldn't laugh about him today.
Yes, even Skybirds change. :)
Sometimes. :D
silentrunner
01-02-08, 03:11 PM
I do have to somewhat agree with him on keeping religion and politics apart. That is a primary teaching of Opus Dei. Opus Dei is based on personal devotion and relationship with the LORD not social relationship.
Skybird
01-02-08, 03:23 PM
Where there is no self-denial, there is no virtue. St. Josemaria Escriva
Self-transcendence is something different than self-denial. setting up prohibitions for yourself and act as if your self is not there, only is theatre-playing, more or less enforced. You still fall victim to your ego - no on the hedonistic but on the asketic extreme of the scale. therefore asketic practice or self-denial hold not the smallest level of insight.
To become a soul of prayer one must deny himself the regular sinfull human activites.
And here comes the institution's dogma of sin again. Kill it.
Blindly believing is neither a virtue nor is it knowledge, but a sign for stupidity. Trust is the result of an empirical examination of experiences that cannot be replaced by simply believing somethign, anything, jut becasue somebody said soemthing or absues children to shove this crap into defenseless children's young minds.
And religious leaders should have nothing to look for in the White House. It even is against the spirit of the principles on which the US has been founded. and these were not about "free march for religion into office", but freedom from religion - and also letting everyone have his private religion inside his own house, if he wishes (that is what is called freedom of religion). Nowhere there is an excuse to say that the US have been founded on the principle of having to be in support of christian religion, or sects.Freedom of relgion does not mean the right of religion to impose itslf onto social life and stick it's nose into other people's business.
Keep politics and religion separate. Keep thy religion to thyself. give religion all the mockery that it fully deserves - before it gets us all killed: in the name of love, Allah and Jesus, of course.
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=patcondell&p=r
Laughing is healthy, and gives wings to your mind! for the concerned, this:
http://www.odan.org/
The great tragedy is that most Opus Dei members do not realize that the ideals they aspire to do not correlate with their actual practices, which include a culture which demands aggressive recruiting, especially at the numerary level; the withholding of information from new recruits and new members; the imposition of intense coercion and guilt on those who wish to make free decisions; and blind obedience to superiors as the Founder of Opus Dei commands in Maxim 941, The Way: "Obedience, the sure way. Blind obedience to your superior, the way of sanctity. Obedience in your apostolate the only way, for in a work of God, the spirit must be to obey or to leave."
All this are symptoms of a typical psycho-sect. Others olwuld point out that Opus Dei is extreme hardcore fundamentalism. Needless to say what i think of fundamentalists, no matter what origin.
And now back to the topic: the upcoming presidential elections. ;)
Jimbuna
01-02-08, 03:29 PM
Well, here we go....first of the new year http://imgcash1.imageshack.us/img231/3134/popcorn3dv3.gif
sonar732
01-02-08, 06:01 PM
I think a better way of putting it is to remember the last scene of Rocky 3. Apollo Creed and Rocky are about ready to spar when Apollo inserts his mouthpiece and states "ding, ding". :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Jimbuna
01-03-08, 04:31 AM
I think a better way of putting it is to remember the last scene of Rocky 3. Apollo Creed and Rocky are about ready to spar when Apollo inserts his mouthpiece and states "ding, ding". :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
You could be right http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/boxing_smiley.gif http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/more4/boxer.gif http://www.carforums.net/images/smilies/boxing.gif
If comrade chair person Clinton wins I wonder how many Americans will pack there backs and go bye, bye? :hmm:
geetrue
01-03-08, 03:18 PM
At this present moment Mrs Clinton is running third in the polls in Iowa ...
She won't give up though ... Like Mccain she's not the kind of person to give up.
Interesting race ... :yep:
Skybird
01-03-08, 03:47 PM
If comrade chair person Clinton wins I wonder how many Americans will pack there backs and go bye, bye? :hmm:
"chair-what...?" :lol:
If comrade chair person Clinton wins I wonder how many Americans will pack there backs and go bye, bye? :hmm:
No one! :smug:
Sailor Steve
01-03-08, 06:23 PM
Not me. I've stated more than once that it's common to hear people talk about America "going to hell in a handbasket" every time a new president gets elected. Some are better, some are worse, but the system is designed to work around them, and none of them have managed to wreck it yet.
Yet.
Yet.
Yet.
silentrunner
01-03-08, 07:46 PM
If comrade chair person Clinton wins I wonder how many Americans will pack there backs and go bye, bye? :hmm:
No one! :smug:Well as long as we have a good congress we would not need to worry about the president as much. I think Hillary has been around politics too long and would only make decisions to gain support. If their is a good congress that can block her from doing just that then it would not be as bad.
Onkel Neal
01-04-08, 08:15 AM
First primary/caucus; Obama and Huckabee (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22484066/)
Jeez, neither of these guys has a dignified name :lol:
Edit: Poll is now public, click on one of the vote numbers to see how predictions are faring.
.
Comrade Clinton is third but the next round may be different. :yep:
The Red flag flying over the white house, what a nightmare that would be. Don't let that barking mad Clinton win.
Skybird
01-04-08, 11:01 AM
German Focus magazine writes on Obama's win: "Kein Politiker verkörpert die Sehnsucht der US-Wähler nach Aufbruch so mitreißend wie er." / "No other politician embodies the longing of US voters for new departure as gripping/passionate as he does." - Think that pretty much sums up the reason for his popularity. Don't know if he will win, but he is set to cause more headaches to Clinton than just this one. By guts feeling and leaving out any wishful thinking of mine, I think that either Obama or Clinton will become the next president. An issue might be wether or not the loser of their duel will support the winner, or not. If the loser retreats into a corner and will have a pout, that is a possebility to ruin the other's run for presidency. - Thinking on effects, I do not think there will be great differences between the two. And also I do not expect drastic changes in foreign policy, compared to any republican candidate winning. Any republican president will have a hard time in office if only carrying on with the ways Bush have begun. So differences between candidates are liekly to be smaller, than both party's attempts to separate themselves from Bush.
dean_acheson
01-04-08, 11:53 AM
Thinking on effects, I do not think there will be great differences between the two. And also I do not expect drastic changes in foreign policy, compared to any republican candidate winning. Any republican president will have a hard time in office if only carrying on with the ways Bush have begun. So differences between candidates are liekly to be smaller, than both party's attempts to separate themselves from Bush.
Oh, I doubt it. US foreign policy doesn't look quite as bad in the Midwest of the United States as it does from Europe, but isn't that always the case? Things seem to be doing quite well in Iraq, and nothing sells better than success. At least to the people that matter the most, which would be voters in this country.
The "hate Bush thing" doesn't seem to be working well for the two that chant their hate for him the most, Mssers. Paul and Edwards. It also seems to not be the mantra of the current leaders of France and Germany.
Obama won since he wasn't the fearsome PIAPS, and now Iowa can say "we ain't rascist!" She's still the annointed one, and Obama ain't in by a long-shot.
Skybird
01-04-08, 12:53 PM
Iraq is no longer the top theme for voters in the US. but support for bush is miserably low. There is a reason why conservative candidates tried to put as much distance between them and bush as possible, even attacked him headon.
Clinton probably made a wrong assessement. what people seem to want is new ideas, new blood, and a new beginning. she did not offer this, but trusted on the argument to have more experience. By arguing with experience she probably offered exactly what links her most to "the old order". Expect to see her changing her style.
Obama has won in a state with many Christian rightwingers. If he can win here, he has even better chances I think in more balanced, not to mention liberal states.
Huckabee's win is due to him being attractive for consevative and fundamental Christians, and these are a power in Iowa, numerically. It remains to be seen how he performs in less fundamental states. I expect his chances to be lower there.
The democrats have two hot irons in the fire, with Edwards even a third one. For the republicans I cannot see a star matching their popularity. the poll in this thread gives a quite correct snapshot on where current sympathies lay, I have the impression.
geetrue
01-04-08, 01:53 PM
Obama won since he wasn't the fearsome PIAPS, and now Iowa can say "we ain't rascist!" She's still the annointed one, and Obama ain't in by a long-shot.
Obama won because Mrs Clinton stumbled in a debate about the drivers license for illegal aliens New York was going to pass. As the senator for the state of New York she should have had a clear yea or nay, but she didn't.
Voters don't like wishy washy ...
AVGWarhawk
01-04-08, 03:23 PM
Obama won since he wasn't the fearsome PIAPS, and now Iowa can say "we ain't rascist!" She's still the annointed one, and Obama ain't in by a long-shot.
Obama won because Mrs Clinton stumbled in a debate about the drivers license for illegal aliens New York was going to pass. As the senator for the state of New York she should have had a clear yea or nay, but she didn't.
Voters don't like wishy washy ...
Actually, Iowa was called by one of Hillary's advisors. He said she would not win and money/efforts should be used elsewhere. This was over two months ago. She said no and she will be in Iowa looking to win. She should have listen to her advisor. Look at what the future holds for the US if Hillary is in the White House. She will not listen advisors. Obama won because America wants a change not just a change in seat positions.
AVGWarhawk
01-04-08, 03:25 PM
Huckabee has support from Chuck Norris. Chuck always wins.
dean_acheson
01-04-08, 03:34 PM
Iraq is no longer the top theme for voters in the US. but support for bush is miserably low. There is a reason why conservative candidates tried to put as much distance between them and bush as possible, even attacked him headon.
It's better than Pelosi and Reid's numbers, if you have noticed. If you had watched the Republican "Debates" you might have noticed that besides Ron Paul, and the occasional Huckabee platitude, the Republican candidates did no such thing, outside of attacking pork barrel spending omnibus bills the President has signed.
Clinton probably made a wrong assessement. what people seem to want is new ideas, new blood, and a new beginning. she did not offer this, but trusted on the argument to have more experience. By arguing with experience she probably offered exactly what links her most to "the old order". Expect to see her changing her style.
Clinton didn't expect her negatives to hurt her as much as they did. Also, somewhere down deep, I think most Democrats are not really excited about reliving the neverending soap opera of the Clintons. Also, it's hard to make those shrill screams about how stupid Bush is, and how he's President because of his daddy, without, somewhere, in the back of your mind, having the same kinda feelings for Hillary and where this woman finds herself. That without her husband, she be at a small law firm in Baltimore, planning her next trip to the reunion at that woman's college she went to.
I do agree with your paragraph there though....
Obama has won in a state with many Christian rightwingers. If he can win here, he has even better chances I think in more balanced, not to mention liberal states.
....rightwingers who love their ethanol, keep sending the Howard Dean supporing Tom Harkin back to DC, as well as Chuck Grassley, who is hardly the right wing of the Republican Party. Oh yeah, and the state has gone Democratic in three of the last four Presidential elections. Hardly what I would call a 'right wing' state. I guess I'll agree with you on this one if I can call California full of 'atheist tree hugging commies.'
Huckabee's win is due to him being attractive for consevative and fundamental Christians, and these are a power in Iowa, numerically. It remains to be seen how he performs in less fundamental states. I expect his chances to be lower there.
Again, I"m not sure where you get your info. It could also be that Huckabee worked his arse off in Iowa, which he did, and where voters were turned off by Mitt Romney's attack machine, which they were. I'm not so sure that people turned on their god-o-meter and just pulled the level. From what I can see, certain members of the party decided they like Huckabee's Jimmy Carter lite mindset, since he seems like such a freaking nice guy.
The democrats have two hot irons in the fire, with Edwards even a third one. For the republicans I cannot see a star matching their popularity. the poll in this thread gives a quite correct snapshot on where current sympathies lay, I have the impression.
Your impression is incorrect. The Republicans will maintian the White House. John McCain, not my first choice I might add, will be the next President.
A) Obama's warm platitudes won't be enough in a general election, and his voting record in the Illinois Senate will bite him, once folks on my end get ahold of him. And it should. Socialism wrapped inside a pretty wrapper is still just that.
B) Hillary is a joke, her negatives run near 50%, she says she has executive experience, but won't release records and never had security clearance. For God's sake, the smartest woman in the world couldn't pass the DC bar? Anyone else in here know what that means? Am I the only lawyer in the room? She went to the people in Iowa, showed herself around, told them they could look in her mouth. They did, and didn't like what they saw. She's toast. But she won't go down easy, she'll kick and scream and fight. OBH has alot of work in front of him.
C) Edwards. This guy is a total jerk. He lambasts the same drug companies that are working to save his wife from cancer. The same 'big companies' that he made his millions from by suing and channeling dead babies are the ones that the reason she will be around in a few years. The United States, as much as it likes to look askance at huge severage packages for CEOs ain't ready for a Huey Long trial attorney. This ain't Louisana in the '20s. Edwards represents the worst of my profession. I know guys like him in this line of work. He makes Hillary look sincere when she spouts her dribble about 'fighting for (fill in the blanks) for 35 years.'
Now I've jabbered way too long.
Skybird
01-04-08, 07:24 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-526618,00.html
The author and me seem to see things pretty much the same way, having similiar conclusions.
I can't see realistic chances for McCain.
Jimbuna
01-04-08, 07:38 PM
Comrade Clinton is third but the next round may be different. :yep:
The Red flag flying over the white house, what a nightmare that would be. Don't let that barking mad Clinton win.
I think they're off to New hamshire next.....I wonder if the mad woman makes a comeback :hmm:
First primary/caucus; Obama and Huckabee (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22484066/)
Jeez, neither of these guys has a dignified name :lol:
Edit: Poll is now public, click on one of the vote numbers to see how predictions are faring.
.
:rotfl:
I think they're off to New hamshire next.....I wonder if the mad woman makes a comeback :hmm:
She'll be around but I think Obama will win. Why? Change is the buzz word for this campaign and will continue to be. The last 8 years have woken up many politically sleepy Americans (about time something did) and many are waking because it is change that they want.
Hillary isn't as much of a change as Obama. Yes--she's a woman and that would be "something completely different" (based as much on her political views as gender) but she has been around and in the White House before. To much risk of no change.
Obama is African-American, Young, hasn't been around long enough to owe special interest groups and actually does want to change the flavor of the political coffee. His lack of experience (I believe) will actually work in his favor in the Presidential Campaign. Less Washington experience = a Higher Probabilty of Change.
Independants are going Democrat this election year. (I haven't seen any Independant Candidate stepping up so far to take any votes from either side). Young Americans are interested (inflamed) this time. There's the tipping point. There'll be a huge turn-out and with a completely different social profile than I've ever seen. This is something that traditional polling models and history aren't really capable to take into account.
Obama is going all the way.
(This is not a pro-Obama message. Neither is negative Obama. I won't say who I will vote for--only what I think will happen.)
PS. The last 8 years may well have reawoken a sleeping giant. Lets all pray he's in a reasonable state of mind when he gets out of bed.
PS. The last 8 years may well have reawoken a sleeping giant. Lets all pray he's in a reasonable state of mind when he gets out of bed.
Not to discount your theory but i've been hearing much the same things since the Nixon administration. Young people are always reported to be fired up but come election day most of them can't be bothered to turn off the TV long enough to go vote.
And yet, there they were in Iowa... Typically, I would agree with you.
And yet, there they were in Iowa... Typically, I would agree with you.
This is only the first of the state primaries. We got a long way to go before the actual election...
Jimbuna
01-05-08, 06:48 AM
Considering what little I know and understand about US politics Peto, I think your points are truly valid and certainly come across as sensible in there meaning to me :yep:
But as August said, there is still "a long way to go"
I follow events with much curiosity and interest http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif
Skybird
01-05-08, 11:35 AM
She'll be around but I think Obama will win. Why? Change is the buzz word for this campaign and will continue to be. The last 8 years have woken up many politically sleepy Americans (about time something did) and many are waking because it is change that they want.
Hillary isn't as much of a change as Obama. Yes--she's a woman and that would be "something completely different" (based as much on her political views as gender) but she has been around and in the White House before. To much risk of no change.
Obama is African-American, Young, hasn't been around long enough to owe special interest groups and actually does want to change the flavor of the political coffee. His lack of experience (I believe) will actually work in his favor in the Presidential Campaign. Less Washington experience = a Higher Probabilty of Change.
I agree on your general line. However, I want to add one thing about Obama, my subjective impression of him. He adresses the wishes of the people for change, yes, he serves them what they want. But behind his facade I got the impression he is one of the most ice-cold power-hungry sharks of the whloe bunch currently in the race, counting both Republicans and Democrats. I do not trust any of the candidates in this race, but I think he is one of the most dangerous ones. His facade is almost perfect. Too perfect, for my taste. It triggers my alert.
A german newspaper today said "Amerika ist die Rechthaber satt." (America is browned of with know-it-alls). In his rethorics, Obama cleverly avoides to give an impression to be a know-it-all, like Huckabee and Giuliani also avoid that impression and sometimes playing the innocent lamb. At the same time Obama is able to turn around any personal criticism against him and dark spots on his past biography and counterattack by letting the attacker appear in a bad light for having attacked him. A mentally extremely flexible Teflon blender he is.
He probably has excellent chances for making it into office. But that does not change my attitude towards him.
Glad I must not vote in this election at all. the candidates, I would sink them all in the ocean, and America's political dynasties as well. :down:
Well, you all cerainly have good points. And there sure is a long way to go (we'll all be pretty sick of campaigning by November I'm sure).
@ Skybird: You don't trust any of the Candidates in this Presidential race?!? Well--I respect that!!!! After all, what kind of person would want to step into that job at this time.... The lure of power, of changing things, of creating a New New World? That's what my "Sleeping Giant" statement refers to.
I don't know who will win. It might even be somebody who hasn't begun to campaign. There are a lot of Wild Cards yet to be played.
:hmm:
AVGWarhawk
01-05-08, 08:45 PM
Peto:
Change is the buzz word for this campaign and will continue to be.
You nailed it right on the head. Romney said it best. The people want change not just a change of seats. That is all we will get if Hillary is elected...a change of seats only. The status quo is just not working anymore. There needs to be new thinking in Washington. We have been Clinton'd and Bush'd to death. We need fresh thought. The only problem, Washington will not allow it.
I betting Obama will be in it hard and possible to take it all. I think we are in big trouble is Hillary is elected. We can not afford Hillary. We also can not afford another Clinton disgracing the presidency. One of Bill's great legacys. What blue dress????? Spot????
dean_acheson
01-05-08, 11:13 PM
After watching the debates tonight.
McCain: "Well Governor, we'll agree on one thing, you are the candidate of change."
That was the line of the night.
Fred did well, McCain looked happy to be out of Iowa.
Ron Paul looked medicated.
Hillary, besides the one angry outburst, did well.
Obama looked a bit tired. Edwards looked... like somebody who doesn't care much for free markets.
Did you guys know that Bill Richardson was a governor? Or that Ron Paul thinks the war in Iraq is the reason that the United States isn't utopia on earth?
Skybird
01-06-08, 07:47 AM
Insightful especially for people on my side of the pond, who may occasionally wonder why the American presidential election circus is such a blown-up show, and why - in european understanding - harmless scandals like the Lewinski job can cause so much uproar in America:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7171581.stm
Tchocky
01-06-08, 08:44 AM
A nice quote
I think if you don’t have enough self-awareness to see the element of megalomania involved in thinking you can be President then you probably shouldn’t be President. . .There’s a slight madness to thinking you should be the leader of the free world.
dean_acheson
01-06-08, 05:20 PM
Insightful especially for people on my side of the pond, who may occasionally wonder why the American presidential election circus is such a blown-up show, and why - in european understanding - harmless scandals like the Lewinski job can cause so much uproar in America:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7171581.stm
It was a scandal, because he's a lawyer, and he lied to a grand jury.
Skybird
01-06-08, 06:43 PM
Nobody of honour of course would ever try to lie in order to hide his little fella hanging out of his trousers. Considering that this was blown up (pardon the joke) like some very much more seriously lies from office when it came to milliuons of dollars, wars and intel surveillance of another political party, Clinton's libido was a very nation-shaking problem for a change - potentially threatening and US-killing enough as that until the very day of the present every democratic politicians must be brought into connection with it, and must be warned of not behaving like this bad, bad fella.
The wonderous miracle world of political priorities. Nobody talks of Nixon and Watergate anymore. But Clinton and is smaller ego - omg, he tried to hide his mishap! What a criminal offender! :88) Tell your children! Let future generations know, foreva!
Onkel Neal
01-06-08, 06:56 PM
Yep. Morals, they ain't for everybody.
Yep. Morals, they ain't for everybody.
That's right. I gave mine up for lent a few years ago and never looked back :yep:.
Seriously--all Clinton really needed to do is confess. It would have been a short term mess that over the long haul would have been largely forgiven. It's the lying that made it a true scandal.
Skybird
01-06-08, 07:53 PM
Yep. Morals, they ain't for everybody.
Yep. Considering questions of war and peace and lying about these as more important than a quickie in office and trying to hide it - how immoral! :88)
The wonderous miracle world of political priorities. Nobody talks of Nixon and Watergate anymore. But Clinton and is smaller ego - omg, he tried to hide his mishap! What a criminal offender! :88) Tell your children! Let future generations know, foreva!
First off you have no idea what we Americans talk about or not given your vantage point 3000 miles away from our shores, and as i've often said it's arrogant of you to claim otherwise, but since you bring it up, lets compare the two scumbuckets.
Both Nixon and Clinton were caught lying to the nation. The former resigned to spare our country a damaging impeachment trial, whereas the latter could have just told the truth (without even having to resign) and spared the country the same thing but dishonorably chose not to.
According to your bbc link which one violates the standards of conduct that we Americans demand of our Presidents more?
Yep. Morals, they ain't for everybody.
That's right. I gave mine up for lent a few years ago and never looked back :yep:.
Seriously--all Clinton really needed to do is confess. It would have been a short term mess that over the long haul would have been largely forgiven. It's the lying that made it a true scandal.
Exactly. Not only would Clinton have been forgiven he would have been respected for his honesty.
AVGWarhawk
01-06-08, 09:07 PM
I just want to know what 'is' is?
Tchocky
01-06-08, 09:08 PM
Exactly. Not only would Clinton have been forgiven he would have been respected for his honesty.
Urm, possibly.
AVGWarhawk
01-06-08, 09:13 PM
Exactly. Not only would Clinton have been forgiven he would have been respected for his honesty.
Urm, possibly.
Forgiven or not, he still disgraced the office.
dean_acheson
01-06-08, 10:23 PM
Nobody of honour of course would ever try to lie in order to hide his little fella hanging out of his trousers. Considering that this was blown up (pardon the joke) like some very much more seriously lies from office when it came to milliuons of dollars, wars and intel surveillance of another political party, Clinton's libido was a very nation-shaking problem for a change - potentially threatening and US-killing enough as that until the very day of the present every democratic politicians must be brought into connection with it, and must be warned of not behaving like this bad, bad fella.
The wonderous miracle world of political priorities. Nobody talks of Nixon and Watergate anymore. But Clinton and is smaller ego - omg, he tried to hide his mishap! What a criminal offender! :88) Tell your children! Let future generations know, foreva!
Wow, how wrong, on how many levels.
You don't think that Watergate isn't ever mention? Discussed? Effects us? Obviously, you've never worked in D.C. Every reporter wants to be the next Bob Woodward.
The scandal wasn't about us being 'puritan' which seems to be what most folks on the other side of the pond thinks, it was about a guy bald faced lying to us about something as basic as his marital fidelity.
I ain't going to kick this around, we've done it to death.
How about discussing tonight's debate? Or last nights?
Huckabee got trounced. It seemed kinda like the Romney show, but gosh, I'll never like the guy. He just doesn't seem to have much of a compass, or maybe I've been around too many pols. in my life....
TteFAboB
01-07-08, 06:51 AM
Clinton is still an influential and active political figure. Nixon isn't.
dean_acheson
01-07-08, 08:02 AM
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/06/europe/berlin.php
Things become clear.
If we get barak hussein obama, then we get crazy sleep-overs in the White House, unsuccessfully support proxies invading Cuba, and self-creating international crisis. Does he have a brother who can be the AG? Preferably one that hasn't ever practiced law?
However, I don't think that Ms. Obama is quite Jackie O.
Will Putin be our new Nikita? I doubt it, he seems dreadfully boring....
Fact of the matter is, is that John Kennedy was running today, these same folks would be calling him a warmonger and fiscally irresponsable. He called for a large conventional military buildup as well as corporate tax cuts...
Oh dear, I sure hope this poll, as of now, is wrong.
I cross fingers for either McCain or Giuliani. Then again, it ain't my country!
Clinton is still an influential and active political figure. Nixon isn't.
Nixon is dead but his legacy (both good and bad) does live on.
Onkel Neal
01-07-08, 03:06 PM
Yep. Morals, they ain't for everybody.
Yep. Considering questions of war and peace and lying about these as more important than a quickie in office and trying to hide it - how immoral! :88)
Blast you and your witty comebacks!
;)
dean_acheson
01-07-08, 04:35 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3137529.ece
Now it's in an English paper, so OBH IS the new JFK!
Wow! With endorsements like the one below (found in the comments) how can this guy go wrong? I've never had a gal describe my shaft like that before. How inspriing!
"People see beyond Barack's color as his Soul shines forth (that shaft of light) speaking to our hearts, to what is the best in each of us. And, the heart can move the spirit almost immediately. Let us invoke the heart and build this People Coallition in service for the building of a new era in America, an ear of unity and not division, which can tap that awesome seed -- to put power back in the people's hands. It can be done. For, when the People are ready, the Leader will Emerge, to lead and point the way and make the Change.
Julie, Philadelphia, Pa"
"People see beyond Barack's color as his Soul shines forth (that shaft of light) speaking to our hearts, to what is the best in each of us. And, the heart can move the spirit almost immediately. Let us invoke the heart and build this People Coallition in service for the building of a new era in America, an ear of unity and not division, which can tap that awesome seed -- to put power back in the people's hands. It can be done. For, when the People are ready, the Leader will Emerge, to lead and point the way and make the Change.
Julie, Philadelphia, Pa"
LOL, holy crap! And here I was thinking the political manifesto for the next marxist world revolution would emerge from someone in Europe! Good on me I didn't place any bets. ;)
Skybird
01-07-08, 05:08 PM
The wonderous miracle world of political priorities. Nobody talks of Nixon and Watergate anymore. But Clinton and is smaller ego - omg, he tried to hide his mishap! What a criminal offender! :88) Tell your children! Let future generations know, foreva!
First off you have no idea what we Americans talk about or not given your vantage point 3000 miles away from our shores, and as i've often said it's arrogant of you to claim otherwise, but since you bring it up, lets compare the two scumbuckets.
Both Nixon and Clinton were caught lying to the nation. The former resigned to spare our country a damaging impeachment trial, whereas the latter could have just told the truth (without even having to resign) and spared the country the same thing but dishonorably chose not to.
According to your bbc link which one violates the standards of conduct that we Americans demand of our Presidents more?
the one who commited the greater compromising of vital Americans interests, but did not voluntarily step back until being confronted with the undenieably evidence at point blank range, and being pressed by his own party and close friends. Nixon assaulted the very basis of democracy, and a rivaling party. Clinton just ruined the carpet, and deserves to be laughed about having been stupid enough not to wait and having been caught in the (harmless) act. In the end, bedtime stories belong to the private life of people in office, and should not become public. But trying to betray the systems of checks and balances for your own power interests, and parties or lobbies agendas is of totally different callibre. It probably needs a very prudish country, maybe, to see a fool having been caught in the act and trying to avoid public questioning about his sexual life as of the same importance as Irangate (Republicans). Watergate (republicans). Nukes in Iraq '03 and Saddam linked to Al Quaeda (Republicans).
Clinton's foolish act was that he did treat Monica himself. He should have envited her for the weekend instead, and when insisting that it must be the white house, he should have stayed out of it and let a Secret Service agent enjoy it in his place. for this mistake, he deserves to be laughed about, but that he tried to avoid his sex life being brought to the public simply is - human, and not treachery of the state. no dollar was stolen. no illegal wepaikns deals signed. No soldier killed in war becaseu of it. It just was - the laugh of the year. Next.
That people who have nuclear weapons see this trivial thing of uncontrolled libido as so important, while being so very easy and forgiving about so many other much more serious failures and even acts of treason and betrayal of people in office is - frightening, illogical, and a contradiction. reminds me of marlon Brando'S philosophizing near the end of Apocalypse Now, where he says something like how perverse it is that you order your young people to throw bombs on other people and burn them to death, but forbid them to write the word "f#cking" on the bombs.
Skybird
01-07-08, 05:39 PM
Back on topic-related questions that is dealing with future, not past presidents.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,druck-527004,00.html
A reprint from the NYT.
It's not certain, even now, that we'll have a formal recession, although given the news on Friday you have to say that the odds are that we will. But what is clear is that 2008 will be a troubled year for the US economy -- and that as a result, the overall economic record of the Bush years will have been dreary at best: two and a half years of slumping employment, three and a half years of good but not great growth, and two more years of renewed economic distress.
The November election will take place against that background of economic distress, which ought to be good news for candidates running on a platform of change.
But the opponents of change, those who want to keep the Bush legacy intact, are not without resources. In fact, they've already made their standard pivot when things turn bad -- the pivot from hype to fear. And in case you haven't noticed, they're very, very good at the fear thing.
You see, for 30 years American politics has been dominated by a political movement practicing Robin-Hood-in-reverse, giving unto those that hath while taking from those who don't. And one secret of that long domination has been a remarkable flexibility in economic debate. The policies never change -- but the arguments for these policies turn on a dime.
When the economy is doing reasonably well, the debate is dominated by hype -- by the claim that America's prosperity is truly wondrous, and that conservative economic policies deserve all the credit.
But when things turn down, there is a seamless transition from "It's morning in America! Hurray for tax cuts!" to "The economy is slumping! Raising taxes would be a disaster!"
Thus, until just the other day Bush administration officials were in denial about the economy's problems. They were still insisting that the economy was strong, and touting the "Bush boom" -- the improvement in the job situation that took place between the summer of 2003 and the end of 2006 -- as proof of the efficacy of tax cuts.
But now, without ever acknowledging that maybe things weren't that great after all, President Bush is warning that given the economy's problems, "the worst thing the Congress could do is raise taxes on the American people and on American businesses."
the one who commited the greater compromising of vital Americans interests, but did not voluntarily step back until being confronted with the undenieably evidence at point blank range, and being pressed by his own party and close friends. Nixon assaulted the very basis of democracy, and a rivaling party. Clinton just ruined the carpet, and deserves to be laughed about having been stupid enough not to wait and having been caught in the (harmless) act. In the end, bedtime stories belong to the private life of people in office, and should not become public. But trying to betray the systems of checks and balances for your own power interests, and parties or lobbies agendas is of totally different callibre. It probably needs a very prudish country, maybe, to see a fool having been caught in the act and trying to avoid public questioning about his sexual life as of the same importance as Irangate (Republicans). Watergate (republicans). Nukes in Iraq '03 and Saddam linked to Al Quaeda (Republicans).
Clinton's foolish act was that he did treat Monica himself. He should have envited her for the weekend instead, and when insisting that it must be the white house, he should have stayed out of it and let a Secret Service agent enjoy it in his place. for this mistake, he deserves to be laughed about, but that he tried to avoid his sex life being brought to the public simply is - human, and not treachery of the state. no dollar was stolen. no illegal wepaikns deals signed. No soldier killed in war becaseu of it. It just was - the laugh of the year. Next.
That people who have nuclear weapons see this trivial thing of uncontrolled libido as so important, while being so very easy and forgiving about so many other much more serious failures and even acts of treason and betrayal of people in office is - frightening, illogical, and a contradiction. reminds me of marlon Brando'S philosophizing near the end of Apocalypse Now, where he says something like how perverse it is that you order your young people to throw bombs on other people and burn them to death, but forbid them to write the word "f#cking" on the bombs.
You're entitled to see it anyway you want I guess Skybird but what is important to AMERICANS is the only thing that counts in this matter...
Skybird
01-07-08, 06:21 PM
You're entitled to see it anyway you want I guess Skybird but what is important to AMERICANS is the only thing that counts in this matter...
Then don't ask.
You're entitled to see it anyway you want I guess Skybird but what is important to AMERICANS is the only thing that counts in this matter... Then don't ask.
Got me there, I did ask. I'm sorry to say you still have no idea what you're talking about though.
Skybird
01-07-08, 06:35 PM
You are free to hold an opinion and assess others. If you are right, is something totally different.
You are free to hold an opinion and assess others. If you are right, is something totally different.
You apply that wisdom to yourself sometimes, yes?
Sailor Steve
01-07-08, 08:12 PM
Skybird is right on this one. Saying that he doesn't understand because he's not American is a good way of ducking the truth; the truth in this case being that Americans have a wide range of opinions, and a lot of them feel just the way Sky does.
Sorry, but his opinions, while only opinions, are just as valid as anyone else's.
Skybird is right on this one. Saying that he doesn't understand because he's not American is a good way of ducking the truth; the truth in this case being that Americans have a wide range of opinions, and a lot of them feel just the way Sky does.
Sorry, but his opinions, while only opinions, are just as valid as anyone else's.
While I don't condone what Clinton did--Sailor Steve is correct IMO. How people from around the globe view our politics is important because it does impact our standing in the geo-political sphere. In my travels, I have found Europeans to be quite savy of US politics and how they are effected by them.
Skybird does tend to crank it up a notch "at times" though ;). Tends to ruffle feathers :shifty:.
Skybird is right on this one. Saying that he doesn't understand because he's not American is a good way of ducking the truth; the truth in this case being that Americans have a wide range of opinions, and a lot of them feel just the way Sky does.
Sorry, but his opinions, while only opinions, are just as valid as anyone else's.
Not really Steve. Skybird looks at our country from from a foreign culture. That will always tend to color his view point. Take him as gospel if you want but the only opinions that are really valid are those of people who will be voting in the coming election.
Tchocky
01-07-08, 08:55 PM
Not really Steve. Skybird looks at our country from from a foreign culture. That will always tend to color his view point. The *exact* same distortion applies to you, August. And to everyone who posts/speaks/thinks/breathes.
I thought waste_gate was the only poster who ignored people due to nationality.
Take him as gospel if you want but the only opinions that are really valid are those of people who will be voting in the coming election.
Oh come on, we're not talking about Burkina Faso here.
The *exact* same distortion applies to you, August. And to everyone who posts/speaks/thinks/breathes.
I thought waste_gate was the only poster who ignored people due to nationality.
Well:
A. I never ignore what Skybird says, I only object to his constant know-it-all attitude. The man hasn't ever admitted that he was wrong about anything since i've known him.
B. While we all may have our own private distortions to varying degrees I would never claim to know what a foreign people are thinking about their own country and especially pronounce that opinion as unassailable fact.
That, imo, would be the height of arrogance...
Sailor Steve
01-07-08, 09:24 PM
Skybird is right on this one. Saying that he doesn't understand because he's not American is a good way of ducking the truth; the truth in this case being that Americans have a wide range of opinions, and a lot of them feel just the way Sky does.
Sorry, but his opinions, while only opinions, are just as valid as anyone else's.
Not really Steve. Skybird looks at our country from from a foreign culture. That will always tend to color his view point. Take him as gospel if you want but the only opinions that are really valid are those of people who will be voting in the coming election.
True to a point. His opinions don't mean a thing as far as making a difference here goes; but as I said a lot of people here hold similar opinions. Just because he can't influence our politics (outside of influencing one of us) doesn't make his views wrong, and I feel that dismissing someone just because he's "not one of us" is the easy way out.
True to a point. His opinions don't mean a thing as far as making a difference here goes; but as I said a lot of people here hold similar opinions. Just because he can't influence our politics (outside of influencing one of us) doesn't make his views wrong, and I feel that dismissing someone just because he's "not one of us" is the easy way out.
It's rare to see a bass player step up to center stage ;)!
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 12:40 AM
Well, moving back to the topic, tomorrow is the New Hampshire primary, yes? Pundits have Obama set to win handily, it will be interesting to see how Clinton manages to keep a positive front. I think she's starting to crack already (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366), except I canot tell if the hitch in her voice is genuine or if it is something she learned from Bill.... :hmm:
Sea Demon
01-08-08, 12:57 AM
except I canot tell if the hitch in her voice is genuine or if it is something she learned from Bill.... :hmm:
It's probably real but for the wrong reasons of course. She is more or less taken aback that she is not going to be handed the crown and throne wholesale. Oh no! Queen Hillary is not inevitable. :) I loved that clip. I laughed for minutes after watching it.
I think she's starting to crack already (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366), except I canot tell if the hitch in her voice is genuine or if it is something she learned from Bill.... :hmm:
Genuine or not--the hitch in her voice will work against her. Most women are looking for her to be strong and not use emotional "tactics" to win support. And the question I ask myself, "What will she be like when the pressure is really on?" I'm not sure I want someone making emotional decisions in the White House...
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 02:16 AM
Yeah. Hillary's image has blood in the water, the Washington Post sure didn't do her any favors with this piece. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2008/01/07/VI2008010700846.html)Fired up and ready to bore? Wow :huh:
True to a point. His opinions don't mean a thing as far as making a difference here goes; but as I said a lot of people here hold similar opinions. Just because he can't influence our politics (outside of influencing one of us) doesn't make his views wrong, and I feel that dismissing someone just because he's "not one of us" is the easy way out.
It's rare to see a bass player step up to center stage ;)!
Only because Lemmy never went into politics :p
Jimbuna
01-08-08, 07:17 AM
Well, moving back to the topic, tomorrow is the New Hampshire primary, yes? Pundits have Obama set to win handily, it will be interesting to see how Clinton manages to keep a positive front. I think she's starting to crack already (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366), except I canot tell if the hitch in her voice is genuine or if it is something she learned from Bill.... :hmm:
I thought Bill knew a cure for throatiness ;)
Skybird
01-08-08, 08:08 AM
I never ignore what Skybird says,
You do it extremely often: not a whole post, but parts of a,post that give context and meaning to the thing you refer to. In fact I am totally fed off by exactly this constant habit of yours, and some others. It is the one thing about this place that I am annoyed by more than by anything else. Can't say I know this kind of behavior and talking from interacting with people in my real life.
I only object to his constant know-it-all attitude.
Man, just a short while ago you played ridicule on the many different job that I actually have done in my life! I know it all? No. Thats why my posts sometimes are so long - I put my opinion and my conclusions into contexts and explain them, to make it clear why I think like I do. Exactly these contexts often get ignored, for example by you, by that giving an impression of me knowing it all, and then complaing that -->
The man hasn't ever admitted that he was wrong about anything since i've known him.
then you do not know me very well, because I repeatedly have admitted that, although it does not happen often, and I do not do it to just do you a favour, or without good reasons and needs that I see to change my opinion. I certainly try to form opinions and views that exactly relieve me of the need to constantly correct them, and i do that by always trying to look beyond the obvious, or the local scale. If that leads to me shaking what you consider to be solid truths, well, so be it. Nevertheless, ignoring several single events/examples where I did admit an assessement of mine was wrong and said that in public, I even changed several basic opinions/views of mine, and made a constant shift towards what some would consider to be "right-winged", others would label "conservative" (of which in my real life I get accused more and more often, btw) in recent years. You just did not note it, or you ignore it, for that shift of mine does not automatically translates into accepting the american example to that degree like you would like to see.
While we all may have our own private distortions to varying degrees I would never claim to know what a foreign people are thinking about their own country and especially pronounce that opinion as unassailable fact.
It is valid to remind you of your own people if referring to your very own public debates and media outlets and polls, which I usually say when doing so. It's just that many concervatives behave as if there is no other american opinion than their own, even if numercailly it can be shown they are just a minority currently, and by that they give themselves as the prototypic scheme by which American opinion and view is to be defined. Of course they become annoyed when one does not buy it. But that is one of the advantage of global media culture - you cannot downplay other information that easily anymore and present yourself as the only valid source of truth anymore.
The disadvantage is that people of public life and poltiicians more and more behave not for the sake of a cause, but try to behave that way that presents themselves in the best way possible to the global eye-community. that's why I like the idea of no political speeches and debates broadcasted by TV, no TV cameras in parliamanet, and any coverage only via radio, or better: in writing, covering no excerpts but full length of any speeches. TV has given us more coverage of things - but at the cost of quality and analytical insight having become thinner than a piece of paper, and totally superficial - andn this worthless information is presented in a drmaatic way, with a Klaus zimmer soundtrack, and then is repeated again and again and again until it has finally fall down in poeple'S mind like a radioactive mushroom collapsing. Once one is used to that superficial style, everybody trying to cover the depth below becomes boring, too complex, difficult.
dean_acheson
01-08-08, 09:58 AM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080108/capt.c6c81210a50a4d18ab05cb41a4c1661a.obama_2008_n hmg140.jpg?x=400&y=266&sig=vkdGsKw2fn6rm_3_13GkGg--
Danielle Arlow of Minnesota weeps as Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama D-Ill., speaks at a rally, Monday, Jan. 7, 2008, in Concord, N.H. (AP Photo/M. Spencer Green)
Hillary says "It will take me to get CHANGE, after you get shot." Ok, maybe that is not EXACTLY what she said......
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/07/civilrights/
Gosh, I'll be happy when this election is over, and I don't have to hear the word change for abit.
I really hope that my party pulls its collective head out of its arse and has Fred as our nominee. He's the only one that can win the general election, except for McCain...
AVGWarhawk
01-08-08, 10:19 AM
I think she's starting to crack already (http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366), except I canot tell if the hitch in her voice is genuine or if it is something she learned from Bill.... :hmm:
Genuine or not--the hitch in her voice will work against her. Most women are looking for her to be strong and not use emotional "tactics" to win support. And the question I ask myself, "What will she be like when the pressure is really on?" I'm not sure I want someone making emotional decisions in the White House...
My thoughts exactly Peto. Will she break down and cry at the next Summit Conference because it did not go her way? This clip will hurt her for sure.
bradclark1
01-08-08, 10:33 AM
I really hope that my party pulls its collective head out of its arse and has Fred as our nominee. He's the only one that can win the general election, except for McCain...
Fred is a flare-up that never caught nor will it. I think he expected to walk in and everyone flock to him as Gods gift to conservitism. In a little while he will be nothing but a trivia piece in the polls every five or six days or so as a time filler.
dean_acheson
01-08-08, 12:18 PM
I really hope that my party pulls its collective head out of its arse and has Fred as our nominee. He's the only one that can win the general election, except for McCain...
Fred is a flare-up that never caught nor will it. I think he expected to walk in and everyone flock to him as Gods gift to conservitism. In a little while he will be nothing but a trivia piece in the polls every five or six days or so as a time filler.
Most likely, the last sentence at least. I did flock to him, but I'm kinda a vote for a prosecutor type of guy. At least one that doesn't wear dresses.
If he pulls out of South Carolina with a first or a second, he won't have a bad track record. So far we've had a primary and a caucus and he has a 2 (montana) and a 3 (Iowa). Those are not bad numbers.
Will get crunched tonight though.
Tchocky
01-08-08, 12:26 PM
Thompson seemed vague and dangerously stupid in the debates the other night. I wonder if he'll get better.
dean_acheson
01-08-08, 01:02 PM
maybe we were watching different debates.
I've yet to hear him say something stupid, unlike Bill Richardson who says he will negotiate with the soviet union.
sonar732
01-08-08, 02:15 PM
I see that Hilary clip doing the same thing to her that the Dean screaming clip did to him.
Sea Demon
01-08-08, 02:21 PM
Thompson seemed vague and dangerously stupid in the debates the other night. I wonder if he'll get better.
What specifically?
dean_acheson
01-08-08, 04:16 PM
I thought that FDT was the LEAST vague in the debate on Sunday night. He laid out a plan for Social Security reform, took the moderator to task for that old lie about "cutting" benefits, when in fact there is a change in the % INCREASE in benefits.
Also, FDT schooled Huckabee on the status of the folks at Guantanamo. For God's sake Huck, they probably didn't teach Criminal Proceedure at your Seminary, but I'm pretty sure that they did at Vandy law school, where Fred picked up his JD.
I can't think of anything stupid from Saturday, but I didn't see the first fifteen minutes.
geetrue
01-08-08, 06:27 PM
I just hope they vote for the best canidate that can make a quick decision about,
"is it a flock of geese or is it the Russians" over the
Gulf of Alaska, on weather they should launch now before it's too late ...
Fill in the blank _________________________________________ :hmm:
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 08:38 PM
Woot! At this time, Hillary is leading Obama 40% to 36% in NH, we still have a ballgame. :()1:
bradclark1
01-08-08, 08:54 PM
Woot! At this time, Hillary is leading Obama 40% to 36% in NH, we still have a ballgame. :()1:
It's the choking up that did it.
Zachstar
01-08-08, 10:57 PM
Well it looks like she got it. Tho there is still a small chance here with 20 percent yet to report.
On DU the Hilbots are going nuts and going after anyone who DARES says crying had somthing to do with it.
Tho I will say it right now. I think when history looks back and noticies what I saw tonight! They will note how many people changed their minds at the last min there. People obviously feeling guilty if they don't vote for clinton because she had her soft moment.
So Clinton deployed torpedo 1 which was a short range torpedo with a large warhead of crying and "Iron my shirt!" folks. The "Iron my shirt!" likely isn't her doing but the result was the same.
NH you need to grow up and stop letting short term politics influence your vote. Otherwise you will be used and used for each and every election from here on out to aid the establishment.
This was not clean at all. I have not seen stuff this nasty since the Swift Boat days where I ran an IRC chat room for them back when I was a moron.
This is the future folks. This is how this stuff is going to play out until we get people who know how to break in get in there.
Im calling upon edwards to stop this madness that is taking votes away from Obama. He needs to set himself up to be a fine VP instead of setting things up for a Clinton win. He has NO chance to get in the white house if he loses anymore states. His declaration to say until the convention has empowered clinton to a huge degree.
Yes I am angry. I am angry not because Clinton won, but because of the way people allowed themselves to be used which was to void the influence of the youth and independent vote to the highest degree.
I saw the video where young people that were TIRED of the establishment chase Hannity into the building. They were the ones who LOST tonight.
So what is NH telling the people in the colleges across the union? That Clinton can go soft and their parents and their friends parents and grandparents will vote out of sympathy? That is completely UNAmerican because it allows us to be influenced easily.
Time to stop USA. If you are going to vote DO SOME RESEARCH and make up your mind. Switching at the last moment only tightens the grip the establishment has on you.
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 11:02 PM
Woot! At this time, Hillary is leading Obama 40% to 36% in NH, we still have a ballgame. :()1:
It's the choking up that did it.
OMG, I hope Fred Thompson doesn't try that! :lol:
Woot! At this time, Hillary is leading Obama 40% to 36% in NH, we still have a ballgame. :()1: It's the choking up that did it.
OMG, I hope Fred Thompson doesn't try that! :lol:
I got a feeling Fred won't need to. Especially if the Democrats field Hillary in November...
One good thing about HC winning though is that it forces both her and Obama to continue and work to win. It may bring some more personal character to light about both of them. We need to see them under pressure!
I still believe Hillary's tears will work against her though... I'm interested to see what tactics they take in the next couple of weeks :hmm:.
Zachstar
01-08-08, 11:15 PM
One good thing about HC winning though is that it forces both her and Obama to continue and work to win. It may bring some more personal character to light about both of them. We need to see them under pressure!
I still believe Hillary's tears will work against her though... I'm interested to see what tactics they take in the next couple of weeks :hmm:.
They will not work against her if there are more sheep out there. More than ever it is about to come down to the Sheep vs the Thinkers here.
If the sheep win I guess I will just have to wait until 2020. If clinton decides she will actually allow elections to continue.
Maybe she will cry in front of congress to get an amendment that allows her to be president for 10 years. At this rate anything is possible.
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 11:17 PM
One good thing about HC winning though is that it forces both her and Obama to continue and work to win. It may bring some more personal character to light about both of them. We need to see them under pressure!
I still believe Hillary's tears will work against her though... I'm interested to see what tactics they take in the next couple of weeks :hmm:.
They will not work against her if there are more sheep out there. More than ever it is about to come down to the Sheep vs the Thinkers here.
If the sheep win I guess I will just have to wait until 2020. If clinton decides she will actually allow elections to continue.
Maybe she will cry in front of congress to get an amendment that allows her to be president for 10 years. At this rate anything is possible.
You're being sarcastic, right? It's hard to tell, it almost sounds like you are serious.
Zachstar
01-08-08, 11:19 PM
One good thing about HC winning though is that it forces both her and Obama to continue and work to win. It may bring some more personal character to light about both of them. We need to see them under pressure!
I still believe Hillary's tears will work against her though... I'm interested to see what tactics they take in the next couple of weeks :hmm:.
They will not work against her if there are more sheep out there. More than ever it is about to come down to the Sheep vs the Thinkers here.
If the sheep win I guess I will just have to wait until 2020. If clinton decides she will actually allow elections to continue.
Maybe she will cry in front of congress to get an amendment that allows her to be president for 10 years. At this rate anything is possible.
You're being sarcastic, right? It's hard to tell, it almost sounds like you are serious.
What makes you think I am not?
Neal go have a look at the polls before. Have a look at the exit data. This ought to NOT have happened! Yet they allowed themselves to be influenced by some stupid events.
There's a lot of time before November. I even heard runblings of another potential candidate in the wings today... Nothing I took too seriously but this time around, anything could happen. If it all settles down to 2 candidates this early, we lose a chance to see them struggling to survive. Watching them under pressure is almost as important as their standings on policies.
Onkel Neal
01-08-08, 11:25 PM
One good thing about HC winning though is that it forces both her and Obama to continue and work to win. It may bring some more personal character to light about both of them. We need to see them under pressure!
I still believe Hillary's tears will work against her though... I'm interested to see what tactics they take in the next couple of weeks :hmm:.
They will not work against her if there are more sheep out there. More than ever it is about to come down to the Sheep vs the Thinkers here.
If the sheep win I guess I will just have to wait until 2020. If clinton decides she will actually allow elections to continue.
Maybe she will cry in front of congress to get an amendment that allows her to be president for 10 years. At this rate anything is possible.
You're being sarcastic, right? It's hard to tell, it almost sounds like you are serious.
What makes you think I am not?
Neal go have a look at the polls before. Have a look at the exit data. This ought to NOT have happened! Yet they allowed themselves to be influenced by some stupid events.
I cannot rule that out, certainly, but I also think it could as easily have cost her votes. For every person who felt sympathetic, there could be 5 who were turned off to her for that.
I guess when you say something like Maybe she will cry in front of congress to get an amendment that allows her to be president for 10 years. At this rate anything is possible it sounds like some of the Democratic zealots who say the same thing about Bush, and for a guy as smart as you, it's hard to believe that you believe that.
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