9 Dead in Omaha Shooting

[AG124]

Just read this on the internet; it appears that either 8 or 9 people were gunned down in a mall in Omaha (reports are conflicting on which number it is) - plus 5 more were injured (and the gunmen appears to have shot himself. No word on who is is or why he did it, but some sources are reporting that the police arrested a second suspect who was hiding under a bench at a bus stop dressed in camouflage.

Here's a link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071205/ap_on_re_us/mall_shooting_20

:o

[Chock]

hiding under a bench at a bus stop dressed in camouflage.

Why was a bus stop dressed in camouflage?

:D Chock

[Letum]

A tragic, yet unsuprising, incident. :cry:

[Ducimus]

A tragic, if unsuprising, incident. :cry:

Saw it on the news in the breakroom as i clocked in. My mental reaction was..

"what? Again?"

[Skybird]

A tragic, yet unsuprising, incident. :cry:
Heared it on TV. Exactly your words were first on my mind (in German, of course).

[Reaves]

What type of guns? Automatic? Semi?

Just wondering if it could have been avoided by having similar gun restrictions that we have down here.

-gun lover but guns don't kill people, stupid people with guns kill people. :down:


EDIT-

Keith Fidler, a Von Maur employee, said he heard a burst of five to six shots followed by 15 to 20 more rounds. Fidler said he huddled in the corner of the men's clothing department with about a dozen other employees until police yelled to get out of the store.
A witness, Shawn Vidlak, said he heard four or five rapid shots "like a nail gun." At first he thought it was noise from construction work going on at the mall.

[AVGWarhawk]

Not trying to be funny here but why don't these people do something original? For instance, blow there own head off and just leave a note as to why? Is it really necessary to take others with you? Personally I find these individuals chicken sh!t by taking their own life afterwards.

[Yahoshua]

You actually trust reporters to write down the facts in a news article? It could be a semi-automatic but a reporter will still call it an "Assault Rifle."

There are only 2 known incidents of Fully Automatic Weapons being used in a massacre and BOTH were done by LEOs who lost their minds.

Wait a day or so before we start calling the weapon an "Assault Rifle" or as being "Fully Automatic." Fully Automatic weapons aren't as common here in the states as you might think they are.

[AVGWarhawk]

You actually trust reporters to write down the facts in a news article? It could be a semi-automatic but a reporter will still call it an "Assault Rifle."

There are only 2 known incidents of Fully Automatic Weapons being used in a massacre and BOTH were done by LEOs who lost their minds.

Wait a day or so before we start calling the weapon an "Assault Rifle" or as being "Fully Automatic." Fully Automatic weapons aren't as common here in the states as you might think they are.

The media likes to embellish. Assault Rifle just sounds great to the news folks.:roll:

[Skybird]

Do these questions really matter? I think not.

I'd even say it is poor taste and lacking respect for the dead and the loss it means for their families to discuss such trivialaties.

[Chock]

You'll never stop the media writing crap like that, having been a writer for a daily newspaper in the past before I got sick of it, I can assure you that 'journalese' as it is known, is expected of you by editors when you write. So you end up putting all the cliches in, because if you don't it comes back with a note telling you to do so, or gets rewritten by the subs in that way, so there are always 'fleets of ambulances' for example, buses do not fall off cliffs, they 'career uncontrollably and plunge' etc, etc.

It's the nature of the business, and it is a business, they want to sell stories, facts, other than the basic truth, are almost always a secondary concern.

:D Chock

[Ducimus]

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/what_we_call_the_news

[Reaves]

You actually trust reporters to write down the facts in a news article? It could be a semi-automatic but a reporter will still call it an "Assault Rifle."

There are only 2 known incidents of Fully Automatic Weapons being used in a massacre and BOTH were done by LEOs who lost their minds.

Wait a day or so before we start calling the weapon an "Assault Rifle" or as being "Fully Automatic." Fully Automatic weapons aren't as common here in the states as you might think they are.

It's funny because there was no mention in the article about what type of gun it was, hence why I quoted what the witnesses heard.


Keith Fidler, a Von Maur employee, said he heard a burst of five to six shots followed by 15 to 20 more rounds. Fidler said he huddled in the corner of the men's clothing department with about a dozen other employees until police yelled to get out of the store.

A witness, Shawn Vidlak, said he heard four or five rapid shots "like a nail gun." At first he thought it was noise from construction work going on at the mall.


I think a semi automatic is overkill for hunting the same as an auto. You don't need it, you just want it. A bolt or lever action is sufficient for civillian use. The thing is they can also kill so if you were going to ban semi's you might as well ban all guns, which I certainly don't agree with.

I don't know the solution but if nothing changes these instances are only going to repeat.

[waste gate]

Through it all; Clinton remained Calm

[RamRod]

I think a semi automatic is overkill for hunting the same as an auto. You don't need it, you just want it. A bolt or lever action is sufficient for civillian use. The thing is they can also kill so if you were going to ban semi's you might as well ban all guns, which I certainly don't agree with.

I don't know the solution but if nothing changes these instances are only going to repeat.

JFK was killed with a bolt action rifle. The type of gun has nothing to do with these nutcases except for one thing: The scrutiny and cost and red tape one has to go through to possess a fully automatic weapon almosts assures the fact that whoever this guy was, he didn't have one.
As for wanting a semi-automatic weapon, this is America. No one cares about what is sufficient. We are free! Especially here in Texas where housewives drive 4-wheel drive F-350 deisels (I drive a Prius) and lives in house with a garage big enough to house the family of 8 illegal aliens needed to keep our 6 acreas of lawn manicured and pristine! An if I want to spend my day off repeating pumping holes into a coke can with my Weatherby 7mm Mag semi-auto... that's my right also. No one has the right to tell me the can is just as dead with a BB gun.

[RamRod]

Through it all; Clinton remained Calm

Of course she did. Its the sign of a true leader and a fine future President.

[Chock]

As for wanting a semi-automatic weapon, this is America. No one cares about what is sufficient. We are free! Especially here in Texas where housewives drive 4-wheel drive F-350 deisels (I drive a Prius) and lives in house with a garage big enough to house the family of 8 illegal aliens needed to keep our 6 acreas of lawn manicured and pristine! An if I want to spend my day off repeating pumping holes into a coke can with my Weatherby 7mm Mag semi-auto... that's my right also. No one has the right to tell me the can is just as dead with a BB gun.

Which is what makes it all the more ironic when you hear from someone else who lives in Texas, who we've all heard of, that wants to restrict the rights of someone in Iran to have a rather big weapon too, don't you think?

:D Chock

[RamRod]

As for wanting a semi-automatic weapon, this is America. No one cares about what is sufficient. We are free! Especially here in Texas where housewives drive 4-wheel drive F-350 deisels (I drive a Prius) and lives in house with a garage big enough to house the family of 8 illegal aliens needed to keep our 6 acreas of lawn manicured and pristine! An if I want to spend my day off repeating pumping holes into a coke can with my Weatherby 7mm Mag semi-auto... that's my right also. No one has the right to tell me the can is just as dead with a BB gun.

Which is what makes it all the more ironic when you hear from someone else who lives in Texas, who we've all heard of, that wants to restrict the rights of someone in Iran to have a rather big weapon too, don't you think?

:D Chock

Of course not! How silly! Iranians can't have nukes! They're not Texans. Next thing you know, you'll want Canadians to have nukes! Geez....

[RamRod]

In all seriousness. I support Iran having all the nukes they want as soon as they they start shedding their own blood for the American Constitution, American way of life, the American flag, and the Republic for which it stands! I doubt there is any other American that feels different.

[nikimcbee]

Says here, it was a SKS.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TBNJGG0&show_article=1
found this on drudge.

[Reaves]

JFK was killed with a bolt action rifle. The type of gun has nothing to do with these nutcases except for one thing: The scrutiny and cost and red tape one has to go through to possess a fully automatic weapon almosts assures the fact that whoever this guy was, he didn't have one.

Which is why I said you'd have to ban them as well which I certainly don't agree with.

[Iceman]

It was the second mass shooting at a mall this year. In February, nine people were shot, five of them fatally, at Trolley Square mall in Salt Lake City. The gunman, 18-year-old Sulejman Talovic, was shot and killed by police.

As Skybird once pointed out in some other thread....I think when a kid in some other country killed himself and some people here recently...it is at these ages when life is really hard for kids.They are confused and looking for hope and answers and all life gives them is crap it seems.

I keep telling my wife I want to get a big house like the Waltons and everyone can live there young and old...that is family.

Who says kids need move out when they reach certain ages...who decided this and when?

Well S.O.B. hopefully this will let parents know how important a stable family is and let they're kids know they are always welcome.Granted I know kids need to see life on they're own maybe this is where the prodigal son lesson is so important...if they will only come home then we could help.

[sparkomatic]

terrible

[STEED]

Not the first and not the last, this sickness will continual. :nope:

[Konovalov]

Through it all; Clinton remained Calm

Amazing how you fit politics somehow into this thread. :roll:

On the subject, just another terrible shooting. It seems like barely a month or two go by without a mass shooting somewhere. :nope:

[waste gate]

Through it all; Clinton remained Calm

Amazing how you fit politics somehow into this thread. :roll:

On the subject, just another terrible shooting. It seems like barely a month or two go by without a mass shooting somewhere. :nope:

I guess I should have referenced this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126078

That way you would be more able to judge how feckless Clinton and her people are by trying to turn a non event into political gain.

That shouldn't be too suprising since she claims some kind of experience to be elected. 'She spent eight years in the White House'. So did the pastry chef!

[Fish]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:

[The WosMan]

Such a shame. I wish people like this moron would just kill themselves rather than have to hurt others. In some ways I blame our society, the news cycle and 15 minutes of fame, and schools putting so much emphasis on self-esteem and trying to be so clinical in treating mental cases rather than making them take responsibilty for their own actions. Back in the day people like this jerk were identified as problems when they were young and dealt with by teachers, parents, and authorities. Today we just make excuses for these mental cases.

I also can't help but think what if some concerned law-abiding citizen who happened to have a CCW permit (like I do) had been in the mall and stopped this murderer. Then again, the CCW guy would probably be breaking a law because no guns are usually permitted in the mall or store so one has no way to defend themselves. Makes me want to carry my gun with me wherever I go because you just don't know how people are going to act these days.

[waste gate]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:

You are correct Fish. 148 abortions per hour seven days a week in the US is a much greater tragedy.

[The WosMan]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:

You are correct Fish. 148 abortions per hour seven days a week in the US is a much greater tragedy.

You have a good point there.

[SUBMAN1]

Let me guess, the mall's no gun signs didn't work?

[Tchocky]

Such a shame. I wish people like this moron would just kill themselves rather than have to hurt others. In some ways I blame our society, the news cycle and 15 minutes of fame, and schools putting so much emphasis on self-esteem and trying to be so clinical in treating mental cases rather than making them take responsibilty for their own actions. Back in the day people like this jerk were identified as problems when they were young and dealt with by teachers, parents, and authorities. Today we just make excuses for these mental cases.
By "mental cases", do you mean people who are actually mentally ill, or a slur?

[Reaves]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:



I agree on the politics remark but guns?


What? Did they all die of strokes and heart attacks or something? :damn:

[stabiz]

In Norwegian media they say he used an AK-47.

[The WosMan]

Such a shame. I wish people like this moron would just kill themselves rather than have to hurt others. In some ways I blame our society, the news cycle and 15 minutes of fame, and schools putting so much emphasis on self-esteem and trying to be so clinical in treating mental cases rather than making them take responsibilty for their own actions. Back in the day people like this jerk were identified as problems when they were young and dealt with by teachers, parents, and authorities. Today we just make excuses for these mental cases.
By "mental cases", do you mean people who are actually mentally ill, or a slur?

Nah, these wackjobs like this guy are mental cases. This sociopathic behavior doesn't manifest itself overnight and personally I don't think you can treat sociopaths. The state had spent over $400k on this kid to treat him.

My mother works with K-4th grade severe behavior children in an elementary school. After doing that for so many years she can tell who is going to be in jail when they grow up and who is the serial killer when they are little kids. Example, one of her kids was at home when his dobermann dog decided to eat the kids peanut butter sandwich off of his plate so he thought the appropriate response was to take a pair of scissors and run it right through the dogs head in one ear and out the other. Needless to say he didn't go to that school anymore. I think people like that are broken and beyond repair and should be institutionalized for life to protect society.

[Reaves]

Example, one of her kids was at home when his dobermann dog decided to eat the kids peanut butter sandwich off of his plate so he thought the appropriate response was to take a pair of scissors and run it right through the dogs head in one ear and out the other. society.


:huh:

There is no reply that displays my disgust at such behaviour. That kid is an animal and has no place in human society.

[The WosMan]

Yeah, you know it is sad because he is just a kid maybe his life sucks at home, his mom is a drug addict (which I think is part of why more and more kids are messed up) and I'm not a heartless person but then if you logically think about it and throw emotion out of the equation you realize that there is probably nothing you can do to fix this person, they are broke and they don't have the emotional or mental component that makes them function like a normal moral person. Some people will try to argue that he was only 9 or 10 years old and didn't understand what he was doing. I remember being 9 or 10 and I didn't do that and I knew the consequences of that type of behavior. The world is just a screwed up place sometimes.

[SUBMAN1]

In Norwegian media they say he used an AK-47.They got it wrong - he stole his Uncle's SKS. Similar gun. Less capable. Cheap.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:


I agree on the politics remark but guns?


What? Did they all die of strokes and heart attacks or something? :damn:Nope - they died at the hands of a boy. Doesn't matter if he ran them over with a car, or shot them. You are simply talking the tool to accomplish the crime. Makes me want to go out and buy more guns to take these whackos out if they ever come near my home or loved ones. All police heli's should also install miniguns to remove these pathetic creatures from society. I don't care if he can't hold a job at McD's, I have no sympathy for him

Funny thing is, he said he'd be famous, but I can't remember his name.

-S

[Reaves]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:


I agree on the politics remark but guns?


What? Did they all die of strokes and heart attacks or something? :damn:Nope - they died at the hands of a boy. Doesn't matter if he ran them over with a car, or shot them. You are simply talking the tool to accomplish the crime. Makes me want to go out and buy more guns to take these whackos out if they ever come near my home or loved ones. All police heli's should also install miniguns to remove these pathetic creatures from society. I don't care if he can't hold a job at McD's, I have no sympathy for him

Funny thing is, he said he'd be famous, but I can't remember his name.

-S

Fact: If the boy hadn't of had access to such a weapon this wouldn't have happened. A shot gun is harmless at long range and people would have had more of a chance to flee if he wasn't using a semi-automatic rifle.

Face it, a gun is NOT a tool it is a weapon. A hammer is a tool, you can't murder 9 people in a shopping mall with a hammer.

[Yahoshua]

Why not? A guy in Japan went nuts in a kindergarten school with a knife a few years ago.



Btw, my first post in the thread was right after I had read the story off another couple of sources quoting it as an fully auto AK-47 and another source saying the weapon was an SKS, but yesterday it was reported on T.V. that it was an M-16.

Sorry if it came out as an odd blindside, btu that was what was on my mind at the time.


In any case it seems this kid had some serious problems:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22131295/page/2/

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/06/mall.shooting/index.html

[The WosMan]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:


I agree on the politics remark but guns?


What? Did they all die of strokes and heart attacks or something? :damn:Nope - they died at the hands of a boy. Doesn't matter if he ran them over with a car, or shot them. You are simply talking the tool to accomplish the crime. Makes me want to go out and buy more guns to take these whackos out if they ever come near my home or loved ones. All police heli's should also install miniguns to remove these pathetic creatures from society. I don't care if he can't hold a job at McD's, I have no sympathy for him

Funny thing is, he said he'd be famous, but I can't remember his name.

-S

Fact: If the boy hadn't of had access to such a weapon this wouldn't have happened. A shot gun is harmless at long range and people would have had more of a chance to flee if he wasn't using a semi-automatic rifle.

Face it, a gun is NOT a tool it is a weapon. A hammer is a tool, you can't murder 9 people in a shopping mall with a hammer.

A shotgun is not harmless at long range if loaded with the right shells and in a crowded mall would do a lot of damage. However, you could try to take all the guns off the streets and the common criminal would still have access and use guns to harm. Gun control does not work. If you believe in it so much go take a stroll down any street in Washington DC where people cannot own a gun and see if you can can come out of it alive.

[SUBMAN1]

Fact: If the boy hadn't of had access to such a weapon this wouldn't have happened. A shot gun is harmless at long range and people would have had more of a chance to flee if he wasn't using a semi-automatic rifle.

Face it, a gun is NOT a tool it is a weapon. A hammer is a tool, you can't murder 9 people in a shopping mall with a hammer.Brainwashed.

Anyway, give the boy an SKS any day of the week over a shotgun, or even over a car.

If you read up on whackos like this, statistically you have about a 76% chance of surviving after bing shot multiple times by an AK (It is designed to wound, not kill - killing takes only one person off the battlfield, not the two or three that would result from wounding - a medic and a helper and the wounded man). With a shotgun loaded with buckshot, your chances drop to less than 30%. Lots moire people would die from a hunting or pump action shotgun. The media however likes to up the ante on sporting rifles. The word assault gets them in a tissy.

But this is besides the point. This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that!

And no - the gun is a tool. It only becomes a weapon if used in a threatening manner. This is simple dictionary terms.

-S

[Reaves]

:damn:

:rotfl:



When I said a shotgun is harmless from a distance I meant it. I go shooting fairly often and one of my mates has been hit and while it stung, he certainly wasn't injured. Differnat ammo would make a differance though I guess.

Eitherway, I give up, you lot aren't going to change your opinion just like i'm not moving from mine.

[Tchocky]

This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that!
You can run away from a sword. End of comparison.

[Letum]

When I said a shotgun is harmless from a distance I meant it. I go shooting fairly often and one of my mates has been hit and while it stung, he certainly wasn't injured. Different ammo would make a difference though I guess.
Yer, I go grouse beating and everyone gets shot at least once. We all wear goggles, so
the worst that can happen is spending a few hours naked in the back of a land rover
whilst someone picks bits of lead out of you with some teasers.

I would guess the effective range is about 100ft if you want to seriously injure someone. Beyond that you will just blind them and/or
mess up their skin.

I have got hit just above my eyebrow and just under my right wrist.

This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that! You can run away from a sword. End of comparison.
Also, even murderes find it easier to shoot because it is less traumatic than killing
with a bladed weapon. It is emotionaly easier to kill from a few meters away.

[TteFAboB]

This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that!
You can run away from a sword. End of comparison.

That's why every Ninja has his Shurikens at hand.

[antikristuseke]

Face it, a gun is NOT a tool it is a weapon. A hammer is a tool, you can't murder 9 people in a shopping mall with a hammer.

I wouldnt bet on that, hammers are actually quite handy when it comes to killing people.

[SUBMAN1]

This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that! You can run away from a sword. End of comparison.And you can't from a gun? People do it all the time from these crazies, including many in this mall. Range reduces accuracy. And do not tell me old people can outrun a youth - that's BS.

People totally act like a deer in the headlights when it comes to guns - mainly because they don't understand them.

-S

PS. A shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot in the mall - there is no distance inside a mall that is too great a range, and especially not in a dept store as this one was.

[SUBMAN1]

When I said a shotgun is harmless from a distance I meant it. I go shooting fairly often and one of my mates has been hit and while it stung, he certainly wasn't injured. Different ammo would make a difference though I guess.
Yer, I go grouse beating and everyone gets shot at least once. We all wear goggles, so
the worst that can happen is spending a few hours naked in the back of a land rover
whilst someone picks bits of lead out of you with some teasers.

I would guess the effective range is about 100ft if you want to seriously injure someone. Beyond that you will just blind them and/or
mess up their skin.

I have got hit just above my eyebrow and just under my right wrist.

This boy was going to kill regardless of what he had access to. Doesn't matter if he grabbed a Samuri sword. He could have even done worse with that! You can run away from a sword. End of comparison.
Also, even murderes find it easier to shoot because it is less traumatic than killing
with a bladed weapon. It is emotionaly easier to kill from a few meters away.And who exactly is going to go on a killing spree with birdshot? Hahahaha! :D Buckshot goes much farther and will kill. It is designed to kill large animals at decent range.

[Letum]

And who exactly is going to go on a killing spree with birdshot? Hahahaha! :D Buckshot goes much farther and will kill. It is designed to kill large animals at decent range.
Ahh, but you can't buy that kind of shot for love nor' money here.
I wouldn't have the first clue how to get my hands on any if my life depended on it.

If you wanted to go on a killing spree in the UK, your best bet would be a .202 rifle.
You can get hold of one of them if you can prove your need for it.
(just sold mine after the certificate ran out).
Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.

[SUBMAN1]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.It might around here. Too many people have this uber gun image and will act like a deer caught in the headlights if they ever see one. :D

-S

[August]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.

Actually Charles Joseph Whitman managed to kill 14 and wound 31 with a bolt action rifle.

[SUBMAN1]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.
Actually Charles Joseph Whitman managed to kill 14 and wound 31 with a bolt action rifle.And single shot bolt action rifles probably account for the majority of terrorist deaths in Iraq right now.

-S

[Letum]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.
Actually Charles Joseph Whitman managed to kill 14 and wound 31 with a bolt action rifle.
hehe, you couldn't really do that with a .22 that conforms to the UK energy limit.

Perhaps with a UK deer firearm (.308), but you can't get hold of them unless you have a wild
deer heard that you are responsible for.

[SUBMAN1]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.
Actually Charles Joseph Whitman managed to kill 14 and wound 31 with a bolt action rifle.
hehe, you couldn't really do that with a .22 that conforms to the UK energy limit.

Perhaps with a UK deer firearm, but you can't get hold of them unless you have a wild
deer heard that you are responsible for.Sure you can. More people in the US have been killed by .22 than any other cartridge combined.

-S

[Letum]

...Bolt action manual chambers doesn't lend it's self to mass murder tho.
Actually Charles Joseph Whitman managed to kill 14 and wound 31 with a bolt action rifle.
hehe, you couldn't really do that with a .22 that conforms to the UK energy limit.

Perhaps with a UK deer firearm, but you can't get hold of them unless you have a wild
deer heard that you are responsible for.Sure you can. More people in the US have been killed by .22 than any other cartridge combined.

-S
Nah, I was talking about sitting on a building and snipeing with one like Mr Whitman.

I would guess .22 rifles account for most deaths in the UK, just because they are legal and easy to get hold of.
I don't know of any killing sprees with them, but im sure its possible.

There have even been murders here with 12lb air guns!

[SUBMAN1]

Nah, I was talking about sitting on a building and snipeing with one like Mr Whitman.

I would guess .22 rifles account for most deaths in the UK, just because they are legal and easy to get hold of.
I don't know of any killing sprees with them, but im sure its possible.

There have even been murders here with 12lb air guns!You should see what can be done with a cheap Ruger 10/22 that costs $200. I shot one some months back that had been decked out to about a $3,000 rifle. Trust me when I say, it would work fine for the job of sitting there and sniping. I could hit a dime sized spot from 50 yards with that thing. Never thought you could do that to a .22.

-S

[Letum]

Nah, I was talking about sitting on a building and snipeing with one like Mr Whitman.

I would guess .22 rifles account for most deaths in the UK, just because they are legal and easy to get hold of.
I don't know of any killing sprees with them, but im sure its possible.

There have even been murders here with 12lb air guns!You should see what can be done with a cheap Ruger 10/22 that costs $200. I shot one some months back that had been decked out to about a $3,000 rifle. Trust me when I say, it would work fine for the job of sitting there and sniping. I could hit a dime sized spot from 50 yards with that thing. Never thought you could do that to a .22.

-S

My last sufferd from a flimsy sight, it adjusted with the recoil after 20-odd shots.
Everynow and again it failed to take rabbits down with one shot as well.

A vast improvement on the 12lb Air rifle I now have to use tho.

[Fish]

Nine dead, and we are talking guns and politics. :oops:

You are correct Fish. 148 abortions per hour seven days a week in the US is a much greater tragedy.

Speaking of OT.
I am correct but abortions are a much greater tragedy? :-?

[The WosMan]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315563,00.html)


Media Coverage of Mall Shooting Fails to Reveal Mall's Gun-Free-Zone Status

Thursday, December 06, 2007
By John R. Lott, Jr.

The horrible tragedy (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315441,00.html) at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.
A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.
But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.
Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?
Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:K222c_oHqCMJ:www.omaha.com/index.php%3Fu_page%3D1208%26u_sid%3D2355124+Few+me rchants+see+need+to+post+no-weapons+sign&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a), to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.
/**/
The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.
Yet even then, the officer (http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2007/02/proof-that-trolley-square-mall-in-utah.html) "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."
There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started (http://www.wbir.com/printfullstory.aspx?storyid=43109) "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.
When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i7ympxxXPpjg6MjYPdJcM5GYlrBgD8T1V6K80) college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.
Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?
Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E7DC1E3AF93AA15755C0A96F9582 60) the legislation and openly talked about it.
No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.
Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research (http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=272929) has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.
People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.
All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.
In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.
The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.
The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.
Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

[SUBMAN1]

I posted about this a few posts back. Last shooting incident we had - same thing. The whacko picked a gun free zone - The University Campus!!!


Is anyone starting to see the big picture yet?


-S

[Letum]

Allways good to hear from Mary!

[Ducimus]

I love the pictures of this kid, and excerpts from his suicide note:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/07/mall.shooter/index.html

Looks like an AK to me. I just wonder how does a 19 year old kid aquire one.

[waste gate]

Looks like an AK to me. I just wonder how does a 19 year old kid aquire one.

Looking like an AK is not the same as being an AK 47. Plenty of knock-offs out there. Most, if not all in the US are semi-auto. Reports indicated that the rifle was stolen.

[August]

I can't take this meaningless existence anymore

Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

[antikristuseke]

Looks like an SKS to me, besides from that angle the AK and SKS look pretty ****ing interchangably similar

for refrence SKS
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl01-e.htm

and AK models
47 and AKM http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as01-e.htm
AKM 74 http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as02-e.htm


Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

I very seriously doubt that
EDIT:For instance, looking at my own country, I dont recall something like this ever happening here and according to a recent survey estonia is the most atheistic country in the EU.

[waste gate]

I can't take this meaningless existence anymore

Maybe, just maybe, a little religion would have prevented this tragedy...

Agreed.
Perhaps his meaningless existence wouldn't have been so meaningless, if he'd had someting other than himself to believe in.

[Ducimus]

As much as i hate having religion ramrodded down my throat, i do acknowledge that there are some people in the world, who need that "crutch" for want of a better term. I know it sounds deragotry, not my intent, i just don't know how else to say it. Would it have helped? Maybe. For some people it does. Ive always felt that people should be allowed to beleive what they want, if it helps them cope, so much the better.

[Sea Demon]

As much as i hate having religion ramrodded down my throat, i do acknowledge that there are some people in the world, who need that "crutch" for want of a better term. I know it sounds deragotry, not my intent, i just don't know how else to say it. Would it have helped? Maybe. For some people it does. Ive always felt that people should be allowed to beleive what they want, if it helps them cope, so much the better.

hmm...Some of us don't consider religion a "crutch" as you say. But I do agree that people should be allowed to believe what they want. And as far as I know, that's pretty much the way it is. If only there wasn't such a push against, and irrational fear of people's religious convictions. :hmm:

[Ducimus]

hmm...Some of us don't consider religion a "crutch" as you say. But I do agree that people should be allowed to believe what they want. And as far as I know, that's pretty much the way it is. If only there wasn't such a push against, and irrational fear of people's religious convictions. :hmm:

Im in an objective frame of mind, so please bear no offense here.

RE crutch:
Personally, i will neither confirm, nor deny the existance of God. It's just a concept that exists. I know that someday i will die, and i also know that facing my death (in whatever form it may come in), will be alot easier if i think that once it passes, ill be going to a better place. Does this thought help me accept death? Sure it does. Death would be alot harsher to face, if i knew for certain that this was IT, and once its over with, thats all there ever will be. Do i reallly need to know the truth in this? Not really. Once im dead, what will be, will be, but accepting it comes alot easier.

RE Push/fear against religion.

Theres an old saying. "the quickest way to make an enemy of someone, is to try and change them". This is what makes organized religion different from other forms of belif. Its insistant need to convert people. WHat a person beleives in, is core to their center being. What they beleive in, becomes part of who they are. To try and change this belief? They will push back. This is, why i think religion is having issues.

[August]

Once im dead, what will be, will be, but accepting it comes alot easier.

This young man committed this terrible crime because to him fame, bad or good, was the only thing that transcended his sad existance. Now a basic tenant of religion is that ones actions in this life will affect the next, so the desire for fame is at least tempered by the concept of spending eternity in hell for the wrong kind.

[waste gate]

This is what makes organized religion different from other forms of belif. Its insistant need to convert people. WHat a person beleives in, is core to their center being. What they beleive in, becomes part of who they are. To try and change this belief? They will push back. This is, why i think religion is having issues.

I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you? Everyone has a choice. Bear in mind that some religions call on their faithful to spread the faith. It doesn't mean that that religion or its faithful are evil. I'm pretty sure they don't want to convert anyone who doesn't feel God in their heart.

No one can force any belief on a free man.

[Ducimus]

>>I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you?

Yup. Well, they tried, but didnt succeed. Im not discussing that subject any further because thats not what this topic is about. Nor do i really care to discuss incidents that occured when growing up.

[waste gate]

>>I have never been forced to change my beliefs by any religious organization. Have you?

Yup. Well, they tried, but didnt succeed. Im not discussing that subject any further because thats not what this topic is about. Nor do i really care to discuss incidents that occured when growing up.

By your own admission you didn't change. So as I stated you were not forced to change your beliefs.

[Happy Times]

If it werent guns, it would be something else they use. Before the resent high school shooting in Finland that killed 8 and the shooter who shot himself, we had on kid that had a bomb. It exploded in a mall and killed 6 and wounded tens with different pellets he used. Everything in that bomb he could have bought in the same mall. Think people, think. Its the reasons, not the means used and the aftermath we have to think about and eliminate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myyrmanni_bombing

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Myyrmannin_r%C3%A4j%C3%A4hdys.jpg/800px-Myyrmannin_r%C3%A4j%C3%A4hdys.jpg