Was I wrong

[simonb1612]

Jan 26, 1941. USS Pickerel, (porpoise class) So We are on our way to drop of a cloak and dagger type guys on the coast just west of Kishiwada (135deg 21min E, 34deg 26min N). Heading North through the shallow straights between Tokushima and Gobo We found ourselves comimg within spitting distance of a plump juicy convoy headed out to sea, loaded up to the gunnels with army supplys to create who knows what kind of headaches for our boys.

Now Comsubpac says our taxi mission is Top secret but the convoy was too tempting. We engaged and sank two modern composite freighters and medium old split freighter. (total of 19k + tonnes)

Was I wrong to risk the mission for such targets?

[AVGWarhawk]

Anything else is secondary to sinking targets.:up:

[simonb1612]

What if the mission was of such importance to the war effort that it was of a higher priority? would the brass tell a skipper as much or would they keep quiet for the sake of security?

[Chock]

Yes, but only if you are playing it historically and totally realistically. Attacking the convoy revealed that there was a sub there, and that may compromise the agents you drop off, so in theory you should have not attacked it. But, if you take the view that your objective ultimately is to win the war, then I suppose attacking the convoy was fair enough. So on the other hand, if you regard yourself as the man best placed to make an intelligent choice at the time, in theory you should go for it if you deem it imortant. This is of course what happens in the movie Run Silent, Run Deep, where Clark Gable's character goes against orders based on intelligence he determines from his drills and deductions.

Not sure if the sim's AI is complex enough to make career/renown decisions on judgement calls like that though, so if you get away with it, then you were right! I think I'd have attacked them too by the way.

:D Chock

[simonb1612]

Chock,
you hit the preverbial nail on the head. My attack revealed my presence and thus would make it so much harder to complete my objective as well as make it so much harder for the agents to avoid detection once ashore. (assuming that the attack would put domestic security forces on a higher alert status as well).

As an update I am now 3000yds north of the attack site and the IJN destroyers have given up looking for us. It helped that the two large freighters sank in such shallow waters that they did not completely submerge, therefore the hulks were creaking groaning and making so much noise in the water that the DDs couldn't hear the Pickerel slinking away at 2knts with her belly brushing the kelp at 125ft.

[tomoose]

...., in reality, would be most specific. You would be told that your 'cargo' is of the utmost priority and you would, no doubt, be instructed to avoid any enemy contact at all costs in order to complete the aim of your mission etc. Conversely you would also be instructed on your course of action after you successfully complete your delivery which would, no doubt, involve attacking any and all enemy shipping etc.

The game orders leave things open to interpretation. Chock kinda sums things up nicely. Just to keep the debate going though:hmm: , I would not have attacked as I would see my primary mission of making sure I deliver the 'spies'. I would be assuming that their safe delivery is critical to the overall war effort (we don't always see the 'big picture'). Any attack prior to delivery would immediately alert the enemy to my presence and subsequently any counter-attack by the enemy is not only jeopardizing the boat but the overall aim of the mission.

Having said that, if my orders gave me any leeway to attack while en route to my objective and a big fat carrier crossed my path..........................:smug:

[AVGWarhawk]

What if the mission was of such importance to the war effort that it was of a higher priority? would the brass tell a skipper as much or would they keep quiet for the sake of security?

You listen to the brass and keep quite/undetected. :yep:

[SteamWake]

What if the mission was of such importance to the war effort that it was of a higher priority? would the brass tell a skipper as much or would they keep quiet for the sake of security?

Yes in real life you would have been issued strict orders to not deviate from your assigned task under any circumstanses.

But... this is a game so 'role play' it as you see fit.

[simonb1612]

Thanks for the advice about RL situations. Now I only hope that I can complete the drop off as ordered. Things are getting interesting... Currrent position 134deg 58min E, 34deg 16min N. just about to enter very shallow waters SE of Sumoto. Popped my head up for some fresh air as teh Co2 concentration was 21% an got a very rude introduction to a couple of shore batteries:o Oops. Nothing worse than a few nearby splashes and a lot of egg on face! It is 21.35hrs and the sun is just on the horizon....We are back at periscope depth. The shore batteries called for air support but fortunately they are dropping their ordinance at least 300yds behind me....

How exciting is game??? Great work UBI :rock:

[rrmelend]

Jan 26, 1941. USS Pickerel, (porpoise class) So We are on our way to drop of a cloak and dagger type guys on the coast just west of Kishiwada (135deg 21min E, 34deg 26min N). Heading North through the shallow straights between Tokushima and Gobo We found ourselves comimg within spitting distance of a plump juicy convoy headed out to sea, loaded up to the gunnels with army supplys to create who knows what kind of headaches for our boys.

Now Comsubpac says our taxi mission is Top secret but the convoy was too tempting. We engaged and sank two modern composite freighters and medium old split freighter. (total of 19k + tonnes)

Was I wrong to risk the mission for such targets?

I'm guessing that you meant 1942, otherwise you just created a heck of an international incident.:rotfl:
I'm one of the few who voted yes. Your mission was to drop the guys off without revealing your position and compromising the mission. Your cargo probably made it to shore with out any incident but you never know.

[SilentOtto]

So now you are shooting it up with shore batteries which are going to call for air support which is going to search for you... tsk tsk tsk... those spies must hate you!! :huh:

[simonb1612]

we dropped of our guests early this morning, under a cloudy and moonless sky. Another convoy left from Osaka just as we were backing away from the drop off point so it was a hairy hour or so trying to get into water deep enough to submerge in. We managed to time things perfectly an still bagged a DD and the tail end charlies from the convoy:arrgh!: . This was pretty costly however, port side prop shaft and one electric engine destroyed in a depth charge run. We made it out of there with a few of the crew battered but proud to have seen combat and served the USS Pickerel well.
Comsubpac sent us straight to the South china Seas without any time to pull into dock for repairs. The crew were pretty put out at that one but we spent an eventful time there, due to reduced hull integrity and poor manouvering on one prop we really could not engage anything with an escort. We did however engage and sink a couple of medium split freighters that came to close in the fog :)

[Sailor Steve]

Now Comsubpac says our taxi mission is Top secret...
I'm a little confused about your wording there. Is "Now..." just a reference, as in "Now let me make this clear...", or do you mean they told you after the fact? If the latter, then they should have told you sooner, but if the former, you should obey orders strictly to the letter.

Because of my confusion, I voted "Other option".

[LtCmdrRat]

Dont worry.
The Main Law In The Sea:
#1.Our Captain is always right
#2. If Captain is wrong see #1

[simonb1612]

Sailor Steve,

Sorry to confuse, it was just a figure of speech. There was no post mission communications from Comsubpac except to send me on my next mission.

[ChrisG2100]

You might have gotten more exact orders in real life, but just like in real life: if you succeed you get a commendation if you fubar it then its your head.

So, since you pulled it off. Good thinking!:up: No you wern't wrong.

Also, I have just been listening to old radio broadcasts of the Pearl Harbor attack. So I say have at 'em!

[Kaleun]

hi,

In real-life in ww2 - a lot of skippers were pulled from their boats for "not conducting an agressive enough patrol" - nobody could argue that about your actions!!! so i think you saved yourself a boot up the jacksy from the brass!!

Kaleun

[MorganThePirate]

I think that it will be wonderful to have concrete orders: For example, go to patrol station, stay within 100 nm, attack enemy merchant ships and be in contact every day at 100; or top secret drop rangers team, maintain radio silence, avoid enemy contact and report when mission is accomplished. :arrgh!:

[StandingCow]

Nope, tonnage = win. :D

[kapitan_zur_see]

Anything else is secondary to sinking targets.:up:

I totally agree! :D mission doesn't provide tonnage and eats out valuable diesel , diesel you could use to chase those japanese eheh :smug:

[SteamWake]

I think what alot of folks overlook is the oppertunity to 'role play' in this game.

If you "believe" its a super secret mission of utmost importance well play it that way.

If not... shoot first ask questions later.

[simonb1612]

If I get into the same situation I might try to call in a sighting report and see what Comsubpac says. That should give me a better feel for the priority of my mission....As it was when I got home there were shiny new medals for me and the crew :arrgh!:

[Deerdiver]

Mission priority is to drop off the contact. Then once dropped, and at a safe distance so as to not compromise their mission, sink away to your hearts content!

A real life mission might result in you being carpeted by Top Brass if your activities resulted in the first mission being compromised. No matter how many ships you sank, they would still only be a small overall contribution compared to what may have been achieved had the secret mission been a success.

[sparkomatic]

personally I would not have attacked...of course I would have marked the charts and dreamt about trying to return, but the mission dictated otherwise

[edjcox]

You will not be chosen for any more missions involving war critical intelligence. You exhibited your total and complete lack of discipline by needlessly exposing your vessel and crew to te enemy prior to the completion of your mission objective. Your total disregard for the training and import of the agents entrusted to your care, their war vital mission, has jeopardized nearly a year of planning and effort. As a direct result of your attack Japanese Intelligence doubled it's efforts in the coastal zone of your agents landing and one agent was captured. He was however able to swallow his purple pill priot to any serious interrogation and the mission objectives remained secure.

Yes the agents were able to set up their networks and we now have clear intelligence that the German U-Boats vital cargo's only partially reached Japanese hands in Shanghai and that the carrying vessel was sunk enroute. The primary (to be known as the Manhattan project) remains secure and clearly in the lead.

Your vessel will be reassignd to a new skipper. Your cew has already been dispersed into the fleet. You've been assigned to Shemya as a Naval liason to the Army's weather station there. We anticipate your assignment to last a minimum of 18 months.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :down: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

We've arranged your passage on a small crab vessel that has been serving just south of the Bearing Sea as a radio intercept vessel...

Enjoy the exile...

[simonb1612]

Do I have time to pack my warm socks?

[Sailor Steve]

You don't even have time to ask that impertinent question! What's wrong with you? No, don't answer that one either! Just get going!

[edjcox]

Appreciate your words Chief...

March him down to the docks and tell the Crab Boat Captian that he can work him as hard as he likes till they make port at Shemeya, Alaska.


Impertinence indeed.


:stare:

By the way I understand that the Lightenings intercept of Yamamota aircraft was a total sucess, confirmed kill, although we lost some ships due to lack of fuel on the return flight. Our Subs were on station and picked up the ditiching crews. The idea of the navigation beacons on the subs was a good one and definitely made the attack vectoring and the return flight easier on everyone. Another good idea Chief, your recommended Captains list served again. Keep em coming and this war will soon be over...




He Heh!

:ping:

[pugwash1]

You are only wrong if it goes bad, otherwise you are a hero, that is why the captain is king. Hopefuly in real life if the objective is of major importance then it would have been made quite clear that NOTHING should be allowed to compromise your mission. A lot of lads have killed of a bunch of there pals becouse they thought they new best, can't condem them just have to feel sorry. on the other end a few have died for no reason following dumb ass orders! In the game if a juicy tanker came by and I had a clear shot with no one else around she would be smoke.

[Front Runner]

"Conduct unrestricted air and submarine warfare against Japan" says it all....:arrgh!:

[DrBeast]

Even if you deliver the goods without anyone noticing you, the game requires you to radio in a Status Report when you're done, which will alert any nearby units of your presence, so from a strictly game-mechanistic point of view it doesn't matter if you're detected prior to the drop-off. So drowning those merchants was a good thing to do :yep:

I think that it will be wonderful to have concrete orders: For example, go to patrol station, stay within 100 nm, attack enemy merchant ships and be in contact every day at 100; or top secret drop rangers team, maintain radio silence, avoid enemy contact and report when mission is accomplished. :arrgh!:


I take it you've never heard of Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123467)...? ;)

[cmdrk]

Let me relate my game experience. I had a mission to drop an agent on Japan's coast. I avoided detection until we were in the bay at drop site.

There was a damn fishing boat cruising back in forth in the bay near the site. The water was shallow and I could only go to radar depth. Daylight would be in a few hours, so I combat surfaced and sank him. I then proceeded to drop off the agent. The rubber raft bobbed around while I backed the boat. A wave sloshed the raft into the boat and capsized the agent. I pulled away and radioed in while raft was still in sight.

I didn't receive any response. I went on my way, sank some ships, and sent some status reports every 2 days. Finally, I was sent new orders to East China Sea.

The agent mission showed complete, but my mission for my next patrol is to drop off an agent on Japan's coast.

From what I gather from other posts, I should have received new orders immediately after I reported the drop. Then, getting the same mission for the next patrol means the previous one was not successful.

I quess my agent drown or was captured due to my gunfire waking up everyone.

This time, I'm going to avoid detection and back away before the agent capsizes.

[scrag]

Realistically - normally go with a bird in a hand theory HOWEVER - when conducting SOF insertions - the only thing that protects you and the party is your stealth. Compromising it might tip off something bigger than the shipping you would have sunk - especially merchies - a YAMAMOTO Class BB might be time to reconsider. Doolittle's raid while not dramatic in damage clearly was a huge blow to the moral of Japan and totally dispelled the myth that Japan was invincibile - we needed the boost and the Japanese needed the bloody nose. Now for the other side ...
IF this was the KREIGSMARINE - you vill be visited by the Gestapo and ve shall see vhy du bist so stupid. Say Auf Wiedersien to your family and Guten Tag to the Eastern Front Dumkopf!!!!!! SHULLLLTTTZZZZZ GET THE STAFF CARRR READY!!!!!!

In the US Navy your "McHale's Navy tactics will get you a counseling chit and EMI"

Russia - COMRADE!!!!! I hope you enjoy winter weather or perhaps the KGB will find ways to educate you in the error of your ways DA????????

:arrgh!: