Radar

[Bulkhead]

How exactly does the radar work in the game? Is it possible for my enemy to hide in the opposite side of land and not be detected?

As you see in the picture the waves bounces back on land to... thats my next question. Is there any mod or something for that? (Would bee cool to be able to use the radar for navigation in narrow straits in dense fog.

http://www.ekco-radar.co.uk/halsall/images/contour.jpg

Maybe this is beliving in santa claus, but the last to die is hope. So i just had to ask.:)

And last: Is the sea radar and air radar on the same screen?

[Fincuan]

The ingame SJ(sea) radar is not affected by land in any way. Land doesn't show up on the screen, while sea units(excluding fishing boats) do. The radar screens you see ingame are for the SJ radar only. The air radar(SD) has no screen, you are just warned of a radar contact when it detects something. If you have map contact updates on, then both SD and SJ radar contacts show up on the navigation map.

[mcarlsonus]

Radar in the game is only capable of detecting targets. It isn't (and wasn't) "charting" radar - that came along a bit later.

Yes, the enemy could easily hide behind that iceberg, for example. Many radar sets today are limited to line of sight as well! Remember, these units were wholly dependent on a very narrow band of the radio frequency spectrum.

The circular scope on the right is surface search. The horizontal on the left is air search, which explains why there's no directional indicator. First order of air defense on a fleet boat was to KNOW a plane was heading their way. Just where it was coming from was much less important as any kaluen worth his stripes'd be diving given the "heads up" on the approach. Obviously, getting the warning as soon as possible was preferable, thus, air search radar was optimized for range. I'm not sure SH4's adjustable range switch on this unit is wholly accurate, although I defer to the superior knowledge of others on this site. Anyway, in the sim, both radars pick up surface targets as well.

Hope that was helpful!

[Bulkhead]

Oh yes, thanks. The radar pic by the way is from ww2..

[mcarlsonus]

...it DOES make more sense than my feeling the horizontal tube was air search!

[Bulkhead]

The one at the left side? Isnt that one the distance measuring?

[Fincuan]

Yep it(the A-Scope) is a very good tool for distance measuring. The other screen(PPI) can also be made much more useful with a few mods, at least "Small radar contacts" and better range and bearing marks. Search the mods forum for these.

[digitizedsoul]

I'm gonna beat salior steve to this one, as he's usually the one making SH1 references, but SH1 had this feature :D

[Bulkhead]

Yep it(the A-Scope) is a very good tool for distance measuring. The other screen(PPI) can also be made much more useful with a few mods, at least "Small radar contacts" and better range and bearing marks. Search the mods forum for these.

Few mods you say....is it more than "small radar contacts" mod?
Could you tell the mods for me please?

I love all kinds of gadgets, so i would love if there was one more radar for air search...

[Fincuan]

The "few mods" means two mods: "Small radar contacts" and "PPI CIRCLE RANGE MARK v1.22". Both can be found here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115207&highlight=%22small+radar+contacts%22). These don't actually bring anything new to the radar, but make it a lot easier to read distances and bearings from the PPI-screen.

[Bulkhead]

Ok. Thanks:)

[tomoose]

mcarlsonus;

I thought the 'horizontal' radar screen on the left was surface-search-distance while the 'circular' one on the right was surface-search-location. If you turn the range knob on the circular radar you'll see the scale change on the horizontal radar screen ergo they're connected for surface search. That's the way I've always used them. Locate the enemy ship with the circular and use the horizontal to show range as they'll both "blip" at the same time.

The air search radar doesn't have a screen. I've never seen an air contact on either radar screen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

:-?

[mcarlsonus]

You're absolutely right! I was thinking it was air search due to being non-directional. But, then, Fincuan and you showed up with the RIGHT answer!
Intriguing, though. WAS there a similar device for air search? I've never seen a ping on either scope either when there were aircraft in the area - and nothing else. Certainly one couldn't depend on intercepting a search radar ping from the pursuer as the Japanese arrived late for that particular class. So, was it up to the Watch crew?

[Fincuan]

I believe the SD-radar had some kind of indicator in the conning tower, but no screen similar to the SJ-radar. Some information on the different radar types: http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/radar.html

[BaronDeKalb]

Wow thats great info, i couldnt figure out why my air radar wasnt working, i thought one of the 2 screens wasnt working but now i see it probably is working it
just doesnt have a screen. And that link helped a lot. ty :)

Baron

[Bulkhead]

Yes, thanks for the link:up:

[Peto]

I'm planning to work on a mod for SD radar now that 1.4 is out. I'd like to make it so it can't detect planes under 1000 feet altitude (altitude negotiable during testing)--which is pretty much the way it was. A little paranoia for a sub crew surfaced during the day is a good thing ;).

[-Pv-]

It is possible for both sea and air targets to hide behind land in SH4 radar. I've seen it happen. Aircraft don't fly any higher than your free view is able to climb and they can't make it over low lying hills so they crash frequently. When this happens, the game will auto-regenerate the planes until they crash again.
-Pv-

[Bulkhead]

Peto: Let me know when its done, I`ll be the first to install:) :up:

[LukeFF]

I'm planning to work on a mod for SD radar now that 1.4 is out. I'd like to make it so it can't detect planes under 1000 feet altitude (altitude negotiable during testing)--which is pretty much the way it was. A little paranoia for a sub crew surfaced during the day is a good thing ;).

Already done for the next release of RFB. :smug:

[Bulkhead]

The what???? Sorry to be stupid, but i am not into all the frases. What is RFB???

[LukeFF]

The what???? Sorry to be stupid, but i am not into all the frases. What is RFB???

It's stickied in the modding forum.

[LeafsFan]

"Just where it was coming from was much less important as any kaluen worth his stripes'd be diving given the "heads up" on the approach."

What the heck are those Nazis doing with a fleet boat??

HB

[mcarlsonus]

RE: German command of US boats -
...I was momentarily not in charge of my senses. I have an excuse: I'm old and, as a result, often confused (witness erroneous first shot at answering question at top of thread - but I did display "...MAYBE..." in the title!)

[tomoose]

....if I get "Radar contact, bearing XXX, long range" and I don't see any blips on the radar screen then I'll man the AA and start watching the skies cuz guaranteed an aircraft will be sighted not long after.;)

[mrbeast]

....if I get "Radar contact, bearing XXX, long range" and I don't see any blips on the radar screen then I'll man the AA and start watching the skies cuz guaranteed an aircraft will be sighted not long after.;)

Might be better to dive before the aircraft gets within visual. Even if he doesn't damage you he'll more than likely report you.

[Bulkhead]

The AA guns is for use if you ask me. I supposed to kill, not avoid. (my opinion that is):)

[LukeFF]

The AA guns is for use if you ask me. I supposed to kill, not avoid. (my opinion that is):)

Thank goodness you weren't a WWII submarine commander.

[mrbeast]

The AA guns is for use if you ask me. I supposed to kill, not avoid. (my opinion that is):)

Thank goodness you weren't a WWII submarine commander.

Yep in RL, Bulkhead, your sub would be resting on the bottom right now.:yep:

[Bulkhead]

Ok, so i am not what sailors would call a preferred sub commander. I can live with that.:damn: I would go so far and say i agree...

But back to radar. A radar is basically the same thing as a active sonar, it send out a signalwave and listen for the return. What does theese waves bounce at? All solid objects? Or am i totally off course....??:hmm: Uhmm.....

[Powerthighs]

Yes, radar sends out electromagnetic radiation (same as light, but at a different frequency) and listens for a return signal. Specifically, it correlates received signals with a time-shifted version of the sent signal. When there is high correlation, you are getting a reflection. The larger the time-shift, the further the object.

Nowdays of course there is lots of fancy signal processing that they didn't have back then.

I general I believe most solid object will reflect radar waves, but of course the amount depends on the material and shape of the object (e.g. the F-117 stealth fighter being designed to minimize this reflection).

[Bulkhead]

Ok, so where you are going is that solid steel WW2 subs reflect better than a Small wooden sampan or something like that. (not too hard to understand thou)

Why i ask because i looked at the radar in sub-command, and there it reflected ships and boats, as well as shore lines. That would leave a shadow....(i think)

[Steeltrap]

It's an interesting aside (well it is to me, anyway) that modern air traffic control radar isn't really radar at all.....it actually detects the signals from a transponder on board the aircraft, so it is in fact a passive "listening" device. Airports do have 'real' radar, but this is usually limited more to GSR (ground surveillance radar - for tracking aircraft taxiing etc) and weather radar. The main system is just a listening device. Odd, huh?

[Bulkhead]

Yes, all electronic.... But active radar wise, it should be possible to hide away from radar waves then....or am i wrong?