SH4 ATi users please read

[swdw]

Moderators- please don't move this as this topic will be linkd to for ATi feedback

If you are an ATi user, you can send a report to the Catalyst team on driver feedback. THere is an option for linking to a forum in the feedback report.
Here's the feedback report link:
http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web

With that in mind, please make a post here about the sun bloom and water reflections issue. Nvidia users-go ahead and post a couple of pics showing what you have. (Go ahead and gloat ;) )

For ATi users, send a feedback report and link back to this topic. Make them aware they are losing sales and potential sales because of this issue. Maybe we can get this problem taken care of in the x1--- series cards.

Now for mine.

Here's a screenshot from a x1950- you can barely see the sun above the horizon and no water glare, just a mild reflection.
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/sun1.jpg

Here's one from an Nvidia card
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/Quazzar1/SH4sunset.jpg


Here's one from an ATi HD2600
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/2600-2.jpg

[Torps]

Thanks for that post, I will be more then happy to voice my complaint.

[letterboy1]

Okay, I filled it out. Good idea SWDW.:up:

[Fincuan]

I'd like to add another possible Ati issue: Crossfire with two X1950 Pro 256 mb versions is absolutely useless in SH4. The result is zero performance gain and ~1 pixel wide green borders around the screen. I have been playing with the settings, trying different driver versions and renaming the SH4 executable to for example fear.exe(which seems to "enable" crossfire in Arma), and nothing works.

[Torps]

DONE

[PapaG39]

I can't figure out what you guys are looking for.
The sun looks fine to me with my ATI X1900XT.
Please don't take offence, but honestly, it looks fine to me on my computer.

[Werewolf13]

I can't figure out what you guys are looking for.
The sun looks fine to me with my ATI X1900XT.
Please don't take offence, but honestly, it looks fine to me on my computer.Same here with my X1600 Pro.

Looks to me like the OP's pic is taken well AFTER sundown.

[Seaman_Hornsby]

I can't figure out what you guys are looking for.
The sun looks fine to me with my ATI X1900XT.
Please don't take offence, but honestly, it looks fine to me on my computer.Same here with my X1600 Pro.

Looks to me like the OP's pic is taken well AFTER sundown.

I have an X1600 pro and my sun looks like a disc in the sky with no glare. Are you actually getting glare like in the second (NVidia) picture of the original post?

[swdw]

[quote=PapaG39]

Looks to me like the OP's pic is taken well AFTER sundown.
Wrong guess, it's about 20 miutes BEFORE sundown.

Here's another Nvidia shot. Are you guy's saying you get that effect on your ATi cards?
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/rthanksleo.jpg

This is what my x1950 gives me:
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/sunglare3.jpg

Here's another example from an ATi owner
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/ROW2glare.png


Here's another ATi sunset/relection:
http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/atireflect.jpg


Here's two more Nvidia card shots. Look how the picture above compares with the similar picture below.The difference in the quality of the water reflection and sun glare is HUGE:

http://www.oldsmobile1958.com/extra/row9.jpg
http://www.oldsmobile1958.com/extra/row10.jpg


If you are gtting the following look, its because of a WORKAROUND provided by Jaketoox for ROW and is texture based. Notice the difference in the water reflections on the shots below (ATi) and the preceeding 2 shots (Nvidia). Unlees you get the same results as above, you are NOT getting the full effect. If you are, then you need to post some screenshots we can see and post your settings for everyone else to use. If you are not getting the full effect like the Nvidia card shots here, please change your posts as you aren't helping
http://static1.filefront.com/images/personal/r/reflections/112772/kphqounadx.thumb500.jpg

[letterboy1]

The funny thing about it is that I just cranked up SH3 last night after a long absence . . . and my x1950 displays sun glare in that game.:damn: Maybe it's in the SH4 files after all?

[AVGWarhawk]

I believe it is in the files. Leovampires first ROW attempt in a test file I got, the halo is present with my very weak X1300. I now have his new file of the completed ROW. I was surfacing with my scope up and still looking through it. To my amazment I not only had the halo but I also had the nice sun reflection on the water as it was setting below the horizon. It lasted about 5 seconds and was gone. :damn: It looked exactly like Leo's screenshots!!!

What needs fixing is the new drivers. I can use 7.6, 7.7 without issue. I load 7.10 or 7.11 and the 3D engine will not start. :down:

[Trickyfish]

What needs fixing is the new drivers. I can use 7.6, 7.7 without issue. I load 7.10 or 7.11 and the 3D engine will not start. :down:
I have this same problem on my AGP X1950XTX. I thought I was doing something wrong. I've been using the drivers that came with the card, v7.6 I think. But I figure that those are probably outdated by now.

Trickyfish

[Seaman_Hornsby]

What needs fixing is the new drivers. I can use 7.6, 7.7 without issue. I load 7.10 or 7.11 and the 3D engine will not start. :down: I have this same problem on my AGP X1950XTX. I thought I was doing something wrong. I've been using the drivers that came with the card, v7.6 I think. But I figure that those are probably outdated by now.

Trickyfish

I'm in the same boat with my X1600 pro AGP (still using 7.7). AMD/ATI seems to have forgotten that their drivers are supposed to cover both AGP and PCIe. You can try the Omega drivers, as they do seem to run where the official ones won't.

[PapaG39]

Is this what you are talking about? It's in IL2, b ut you won't get it in SH3 because tha graphs aren't that good to begin with.
://members.cox.net/lag737/p (http://members.cox.net/lag737/pic205.jpg)http (http://members.cox.net/lag737/pic205.jpg)ic205.jpg (http://members.cox.net/lag737/pic205.jpg)

[XanderF]

For ATi users, send a feedback report and link back to this topic. Make them aware they are losing sales and potential sales because of this issue. Maybe we can get this problem taken care of in the x1--- series cards.


To be fair, while it annoyed the HELL out of me when I had an X1K card...I bought the first of those more than 2 years ago.

I don't think ATI/AMD is going to care much about sales of X1K-series and earlier cards, given they have two generations of newer products out since then.

And heck, the HD 3850 of the current generation is TWICE as fast as the x1950pro (literally - I've measured in both 'Oblivion' and 'Silent Hunter 4' - at 1280x1024 with 4xAA, it's almost exactly twice as fast), runs cooler, consumes less power, and is only $180.

Again, I understand your position, but...how much time and effort can ATI/AMD realistically be expected to spend on drivers for a card released more than 2 years ago (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-x1000.html), on which production has long since stopped? After all, they do have better products out, now - THAT FIX THE PROBLEM (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125467)!

[Syxx_Killer]

My card must be ancient compared to most of the ones you guys now use. I have a Radeon RX700-Pro. I am probably going to get SH4 sometime in the near future now that patch 1.4 is out. I was wondering, does anyone have any issues with sun glare or green lines on a card like mine? I use Catalyst 7.2 drivers. I really see no issue to upgrade my drivers since my card is up there in age.

[vickers03]

done.

[kapitan_zur_see]

lol i run an x800 pro :rotfl:talk about old card...;)
I use 6.XX drivers because they were more optimized for that generation of AGP cards (and it stills works faster than an x1300/1600 though without sm3.0 support...).
I suggest people using that sort of card to do the same unless they experiment graphical bugs on new games.

[Anvart]

I use 7.11 with my old ATI R9800Pro 256 MB ...
I have no claims to the driver ...
Works not worse than with other drivers ...

[Cpt.Saubär]

x1900xt user here and got the same problem, shame that theres no fix. ati blames the devs and vice versa as it seems.

[Reece]

Done!:up: Lets hope for a posative response.:yep:

PS. My card is an HIS X1950 Pro with 512mb ram.

[Reece]

Wonder what texture file is used here, this diamond effect works fine on SH3 with the X1950, maybe the dds file can be replaced by a tga file or something!:-?

[vickers03]

i noticed that the lighthouse halo is working
correctly. basically they must be the same.
maybe we can get something from there?

[Reece]

I tried removing the following:
lighthalo.dds
sunhalo.dds
and replacing with the SHIII tga files but no change!:doh:
Just thought of something, I purchased this card only recently & haven't taken any notice if this problem exists in SHIII, the previous card was an X700, will have to give it a try.

Edit: Goes in SHII, if anything the new card produces more glare (halo effect) with the sun at any position, more so than the old card.

[Keelbuster]

I'm still whipping my Radeon 9700 128. Her fan died a few months back and now I get severe artifacting every fifteen minutes of play. I keep the computer beside the window to suck in that cold canadian air and keep the bitch from dying. It's a tough sit'n, but my motherboard is AGP and I can't afford to replace the whole thing. Alas, sun glare is the least of my worries. Gaming for me is more like reading - it leaves a lot to the imagination:)

[Cpt.Saubär]

I'm still whipping my Radeon 9700 128. Her fan died a few months back and now I get severe artifacting every fifteen minutes of play. I keep the computer beside the window to suck in that cold canadian air and keep the bitch from dying. It's a tough sit'n, but my motherboard is AGP and I can't afford to replace the whole thing. Alas, sun glare is the least of my worries. Gaming for me is more like reading - it leaves a lot to the imagination:)

haha, so you really run your graphic card without a fan? you are crazy! :)

its not a texture problem or whatever, its some hardcoded thing and i guess we cant fix it. if turn the camera away from the sun and hit ESC, then alt+tab und back ingame, you can see the sunglare for like 2 seconds, then it disappears. the textures are there, but something bugs it. :(

[MONOLITH]

I'm currently using an X1950 pro.

ATI is currently selling HD3870's. That's 5 generations of cards later. The priority will be to promote and sell the new generations of cards, not alter drivers to fix an issue with almost irrelevent cards.

Believe me, I wish they would. I'd love to have pretty sunsets too.

But somewhere in an office at AMD, a suit is thinking "you want sunglare? Buy a new HD card, and stop using a card that's 5 years old."

:|\\

[Reece]

Buy a new HD card, and stop using a card that's 5 years old." I only just purchased (about 2 months ago) my X1950 Pro card new & it wasn't cheap, the new HD card has only just been released, if this one existed 2 months ago I would have bought that one instead, nothing I can do about it & stuck with it for a long time to come!:-?
This could be a DirectX issue, I was wondering if SH4 can run with Open GL, probably not!:cry:

I stumbled on this, in reference to an ATI 9800XT:
Fully DX9 compatible the only things these cards lack for features is SM3 processing ability. It does have SM2 which is perfectly adequate and substitutable in most games.
SM stands for shader model, its the part that allows for very fancy effects like the HDR lighting (High Dynamic Range rendering - sun glare effects ) you might see in Half Life 2 or Farcry and other games
Don't know if this is relevent, I assume that SM3 is Pixel Shader 3, getting way over my head here!!:yep:

[goldorak]

I'm currently using an X1950 pro.

ATI is currently selling HD3870's. That's 5 generations of cards later. The priority will be to promote and sell the new generations of cards, not alter drivers to fix an issue with almost irrelevent cards.

Believe me, I wish they would. I'd love to have pretty sunsets too.

But somewhere in an office at AMD, a suit is thinking "you want sunglare? Buy a new HD card, and stop using a card that's 5 years old."

:|\\

Ah the grass is greener always on the other side of the fence.
Let me tell you that I have an Nvidia card and as far as compatibility with old games goes, this card sucks royally and it was a top dx 9 card.
ATI is much more careful with fixing issues with games, even several months old games than Nvidia.
Nvidia does fix one or two issues with modern games, and in the process breaks compatiblity with old games and it takes years if ever to get it fixed again.
Just take a look over here : http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?act=idx and all the people complaining about how games work flawlessly with ATI cards and don't work properly with Nvidia cards, not only old cards but modern top dx 10 cards as well.

I've had Matrox, ATI and Nvida cards, and ATI wins as far as support in windows games is concerned.

[vickers03]

until this is fixed, we can get sunglare
by increasing the bloom effect. just go to
..data/filters/ and edit hbloom and vbloom files,
increasing the default 1.1 to 1.6 or something.

[Anvart]

until this is fixed, we can get sunglare
by increasing the bloom effect. just go to
..data/filters/ and edit hbloom and vbloom files,
increasing the default 1.1 to 1.6 or something.
... Without effect ...
Texture + shaders + filter ... may be ... :hmm:

[vickers03]

... Without effect ...
Texture + shaders + filter ... may be ...


hm you mean creating a new effect that works? interesting.

but increasing the bloom effect will start the sun to glow at some point.

i think the files where in ..data/filters/GLARE :roll:

[Anvart]

... Without effect ...
Texture + shaders + filter ... may be ...


hm you mean creating a new effect that works? interesting.

but increasing the bloom effect will start the sun to glow at some point.

i think the files where in ..data/filters/GLARE :roll:
I think that problem is not in value ...

[Reece]

Texture + shaders + filter ... may be ... :hmm:
Ahh, the cogs are turning :D I keep my fingers & toes crossed !:yep:

[swdw]

I'm currently using an X1950 pro.

ATI is currently selling HD3870's. That's 5 generations of cards later. The priority will be to promote and sell the new generations of cards, not alter drivers to fix an issue with almost irrelevent cards.
:|\\
Except they're still selling 1950's like crazy.

On another note, the HD3800 series cards have their own problem, they keep rendering the sun after it sets, so the sun + glare is rendered through the water.

[Reece]

Just out of curiousity I tried with various drivers from cat 6.9 to 7.9 & omega drivers, with & without ati traytools (don't use ccc) .... no luck!!:cry:

[Anvart]

Principal cause - not good engine ... ;)

[vickers03]

Anvart, do you think it would be possible
to increase only the bloom-effect of the sun
and maybe the glare effect on shining metal?
all by changing values?

i think more bloom looks better then no sunglare
at all..

http://www.picupload.net/t-da5d9c1d1cd2cf17fa4088cc5d4583fc.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-da5d9c1d1cd2cf17fa4088cc5d4583fc-jpg.php) http://www.picupload.net/t-4f23b0fe6b4828894cb8239ed31bfa4b.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-4f23b0fe6b4828894cb8239ed31bfa4b-jpg.php) http://www.picupload.net/t-744574273cea68adef19b8b5f6f93dc9.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-744574273cea68adef19b8b5f6f93dc9-jpg.php)

[Anvart]

Anvart, do you think it would be possible
to increase only the bloom-effect of the sun
and maybe the glare effect on shining metal?
all by changing values?

i think more bloom looks better then no sunglare
at all..

http://www.picupload.net/t-da5d9c1d1cd2cf17fa4088cc5d4583fc.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-da5d9c1d1cd2cf17fa4088cc5d4583fc-jpg.php) http://www.picupload.net/t-4f23b0fe6b4828894cb8239ed31bfa4b.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-4f23b0fe6b4828894cb8239ed31bfa4b-jpg.php) http://www.picupload.net/t-744574273cea68adef19b8b5f6f93dc9.jpg (http://www.picupload.net/s-744574273cea68adef19b8b5f6f93dc9-jpg.php)
What card do you have? ;)
On my ATI R9800Pro i have no effect ...

[vickers03]

i have the radeon x1800 pci, using the cat. 7.11

i changed the files hbloom.pfx and vbloom.pfx in ..data/filters/glare, changing value 1.1 to 1.55 :sunny:

[Anvart]

i have the radeon x1800 pci, using the cat. 7.11

i changed the files hbloom.pfx and vbloom.pfx in ..data/filters/glare, changing value 1.1 to 1.55 :sunny:
I have not correctly written in the previous post ...
I have effect when I increase bloom scale, but it is ugly blinding blur effect not halo (glare) ... :hmm:
I think, that sunhalo.dds texture not work ...

P.S. And i have 7.11 too ... (i like it) ...

[vickers03]

I have not correctly written in the previous post ...
I have effect when I increase bloom scale, but it is ugly blinding blur effect not halo (glare) ... :hmm:
I think, that sunhalo.dds texture not work ...


yep, but maybe there is a way to increase the bloom
for the sun only?

[Anvart]

I have not correctly written in the previous post ...
I have effect when I increase bloom scale, but it is ugly blinding blur effect not halo (glare) ... :hmm:
I think, that sunhalo.dds texture not work ...


yep, but maybe there is a way to increase the bloom
for the sun only?
Bloom effect for sun only ...
It's necessary to write shader for the sun texture ...
Just about it I wrote above ... :yep:

P.S.
On my taste a lot of bloom not good ... Sub interior looks badly ...

[Fish40]

I just sent my complaint to ATI. Just a thought here: I know that most of us have cards that are a few generations old, and it seems that ATI is more interested in fixing their newer cards. I'm not sure if that's such a wise move. I'm no business man, but it seems to reason that MOST people don't have Donald Trump's bank account, and can't afford to blow $400 or whatever a new generation card costs everytime one comes out. I know I can't! Little things like rent, food, car insurance (you get the picture) tend to get in the way.

I would venture to bet that most of ATI's customers, unless they're all millionaires, have older generation cards. I can't understand why they would not take time to at least look into the matter. Humor us alittle for Christ's sake! Mabey they feel that the Submarine simulation fanbase is too small, and not worth the trouble in time spent to fix the problem. Not a wise move from the "keeping the customer satisfied" point of view IMO. Let's hope for the best!

[Cpt.Saubär]

I´m happy to donate something to the one who´s able to fix that, it looks so much better on my laptop with nvidia card, but i have to lower the other settings.

[repalankas]

Is really clear that this bug is caused by the display driver?

Why are the devs so quiet?

[Backman]

Good question, repalankas.

[AVGWarhawk]

I say it is not the driver. Way back when Leovampire was playing with textures I was able to see sun bloom with one texture file I was sent. It would happen between 0700-1000 and then reappear at 1600-1800. I figured it has to do with textures and the camera distance at certain times of the day. I use the X1300 card. What it does not explain is how the newer cards from ATI can show the bloom.

[repalankas]

I've seen another strange bug with my new 1950gt:

It happens with omega and official drivers instead.

When enabling AA without AF with Ati Tray Tools, it seems to work fine, but if you dive the camera, fps drops down from about 40 on surface to 2 - 4 fps submerged. And when camera returns to surface, fps returns to normal state... strange things happen with ati on this game... Solution in this case is enabling AF.

With my previous VGA card, this things didn't happen... nvidia, of course.

Where are developers?

Will be the upcoming addon also buggy with ati vgas??

Is it a driver incompatibility?

Users needs answers.

[repalankas]

I say it is not the driver. Way back when Leovampire was playing with textures I was able to see sun bloom with one texture file I was sent. It would happen between 0700-1000 and then reappear at 1600-1800. I figured it has to do with textures and the camera distance at certain times of the day. I use the X1300 card. What it does not explain is how the newer cards from ATI can show the bloom.

It seems to be a broken or buggy engine. Not tested as it worths.

I think that this question is not fair for ATI interests, a SH4 fan who needs to change his/her vga, can incline his/her decision to buy NVidia in consequence of these bugs.

Sorry if bad english :oops:

[Anvart]

Graph. Engine :down:
..............Graph. Engine :down:
...........................Graph. Engine :down:

[Reece]

Way back when Leovampire was playing with textures I was able to see sun bloom with one texture file I was sent. It would happen between 0700-1000 and then reappear at 1600-1800.
I wish you could remember the files concerned AVG, a hypnotherapist might help!:yep: or a piece of 3 by 2!:lol:

[BaronDeKalb]

well i am back to using by raydon 9500pro at 1152x864.

yes not having sum bloom is a bit disapointing, but in some ways i do like the overall effect also, not every day is full bloom in rl after all.

im really glad i dont have that horrid sun rendering under the ocean bug, that would make the game unplayable...

i do agree that the bloom should be looked into and hopefully fixed one day.

As for saying people should just get card [x] that isnt right i dont think supporting
2 major card makers is asking too much.

[DrBeast]

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/blacksavvas/SunGlareandLensFlair.jpg

This is from a rig with an ATi X1650Pro and all ROW files installed. Lasted just long enough for me to snap a couple of pics, then the glare toned down to what we ATi users are usually seeing. I get this effect pretty consistently under the following conditions: I'm in interior view (usually at the nav map), pause the game, alt-tab out of the game and then back again, unpause and go to exterior view. Works best when the camera is set to point at the sun already.

Here's another screenie I took the other day:

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc262/blacksavvas/GlareLensFlareonATi.jpg

[repalankas]

It seems you have Adaptative Antialiasing enabled, because of the green lines around the screen!! xD

The same bug appears on Tomb Raider Anniversary and COD 4. It seems a driver bug!!! (another)

Let´s wait to 7.12, and we'll see if some things get fixed. :roll:

[DrBeast]

It seems you have Adaptative Antialiasing enabled, because of the green lines around the screen!! xD That is correct, sir! :up:
Let´s wait to 7.12, and we'll see if some things get fixed. :roll:Eh...I say let's see what 7.12 will borken :down: I use 7.10 btw, and the same green outline appeared in 7.8 (I think) as well, the drivers my graphics card came with that is.

[Anvart]

ATI R9800Pro 256 MB, driver 7.11 ...
After the same manipulations (post #55) in stock game during ~3 ñåê:

FullGlare enabled ...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/5820/fullglareenableus1.jpg

FullGlare disabled ...

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/9066/fullglaredisableev0.jpg

Pictures almost identical ...

[repalankas]

Anvart, is full glare disabled in the second capture?
How did you managed to get this sun?

Catalyst 7.12 released, and nothing is fixed...
:down:

[Anvart]

Anvart, is full glare disabled in the second capture?
How did you managed to get this sun?

Catalyst 7.12 released, and nothing is fixed...
:down:
I have 7.11 ...
Yes, on second pic (post #58) Full Glare is disabled ...
I wrote "After the same manipulations (post #55) in stock game during ~3 sec ..."
:hmm:
I think, that SH4 graphic engine disables sun glare (sunhalo.dds) for old ATI (known) cards or forces to ps 1.1 (vs 1.1) ...???
...
And more ...
ATI R9800 Pro 256 MB, driver 7.11 ...
After the same manipulations (post #55) in stock game during ~3 sec:

Without Full Glare and without PostProc.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8985/sunglare22wr5.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3580/sunglare33yo3.jpg

[vickers03]

I think, that SH4 graphic engine disables sun glare (sunhalo.dds) for old ATI (known) cards or forces to ps 1.1 (vs 1.1) ...???


..forcing pixel shader 2.0 via ATI tray tools does not work..:hmm:

[Anvart]

I think, that SH4 graphic engine disables sun glare (sunhalo.dds) for old ATI (known) cards or forces to ps 1.1 (vs 1.1) ...???


..forcing pixel shader 2.0 via ATI tray tools does not work..:hmm:
Yes, i know, i tried ...
In SH3 all OK ... we see stable sun glare ...
In SH4 we see sun glare during 3...4 sec. only ... why ???
I think, it's engine glitch ...

[repalankas]

I have also tried to force vendor id and model to nvidia's 7600gs and ati HD3850 with my x1950gt, it didn´t work :(

I had some hopes on this, since HD3850 works with sun glare with same drivers 7.12...

I think this problem's on devs hands.

I'm waiting for a response here:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=6421019045&m=2771021255&r=4951055026#4951055026

Let's see...

[Minoos]

repalankas,

This is what I found ....

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6921019045/m/7551057536

:rock: Any suggestions are welcome.
Thanks.