max depth of jap's depth charg is 90m???

[chilly]

So if this,with gato and balao calass i am undestracteble submarine for japs naval forces?:stare: couse gato have about 124m and balao 155m max operation depth

[Torplexed]

Japanese depth charges go off a lot deeper than 90m. At least in the sim they do. ;)

[chilly]

:hmm: And what max depth for jap's depthcharges???
As i know max depth for british and usa was 150m in real world.....:know:

[LukeFF]

So if this,with gato and balao calass i am undestracteble submarine for japs naval forces?:stare: couse gato have about 124m and balao 155m max operation depth

Not if you're in shallow waters...

[ryanwigginton]

So if this,with gato and balao calass i am undestracteble submarine for japs naval forces?:stare: couse gato have about 124m and balao 155m max operation depth

Not if you want to come up to fire torpedos...

[chilly]

So it is true about 90m or no?if yes why so many submarines was lost at ww2 by usa at jap theater if thay can simply go to the depth and be undestracteble???

[ryanwigginton]

So it is true about 90m or no?if yes why so many submarines was lost at ww2 by usa at jap theater if thay can simply go to the depth and be undestracteble???
I'm sure it wasn't that simple...

Lets take the Gato, the page I'm looking at now says rated diving depth is 300ft. 90m (the max depth you claim japanese depth charges capable of) is 295ft. Now lets imagine that even 'if' the sub commander had the balls and was comfortable to stay at the rated max depth of his sub, it still only gives him 5ft of breathing space. Whats the blast radius of these depth charges? More than 5ft I'll wager. Also, it would have taken time to get to 300ft. The destroyer may well have positioned above you and had it's depth charges in the water while your still descending.

Oh, and don't forget a lot of subs in service at the start of the war were inferior to the Gato.

[chilly]

Ok. i understend,but in game when i play gato submarine i always order my submarine go to 124 meters and feel comfortable at this depth and even can stay at this depth a whole day and nothen bed will happend and can be same with balao but depth is 163 and all fine,of couse the situation can be different if play agains german their depth charges go up to 150 meters...so in fakt that in game i never was destroyed at 124meters it's bug or not i don't know....:damn:
i play full realism with mod'' Real Fleat Boat'' and some othe small mods....

[Rockin Robbins]

Ok. i understend,but in game when i play gato submarine i always order my submarine go to 124 meters and feel comfortable at this depth and even can stay at this depth a whole day and nothen bed will happend and can be same with balao but depth is 163 and all fine,of couse the situation can be different if play agains german their depth charges go up to 150 meters...so in fakt that in game i never was destroyed at 124meters it's bug or not i don't know....:damn:
i play full realism with mod'' Real Fleat Boat'' and some othe small mods....
You're comfortable because you're not going to die when the sub implodes. We don't play with those meter thingies anyway. They're products of a conspiracy of evil European automobile manufacturers. :rotfl:Would you believe evil Norse fishermen? :shifty: How about two very drunk French guys in a bar?

[ryanwigginton]

You're comfortable because you're not going to die when the sub implodes.

:rotfl:

We don't play with those meter thingies anyway. They're products of a conspiracy of evil European automobile manufacturers. :rotfl:Would you believe evil Norse fishermen? :shifty: How about two very drunk French guys in a bar?

You're living in the past (ie. Englands victorian era)... we have seen the way forward... maybe you guys across the water will to in time. :yep:

How can '1 mile = (err...) 1760yrds' possibly compare to '1km = 1000m'. The metric system is just SO neat and tidy. :up:

[Subnuts]

The Japanese started setting their depth charges to explode below 90 meters sometime in mid 1943. The allied depth charges later in the water could be set to explode at depths of up to 300 meters later in the war, if I remember right.

[Ducimus]

I forget the details, but i can say for certain that orginally the japs set the charges shallow. Then some senator said something to the press about the effectiveness of our boats and let slip that they could go deeper then the japs could DC. Shortly after that the japs set the depth charges deeper.

[rrmelend]

Subnuts and Ducimus both hit it right on with what they said. Also Rockin Robbins said it perfectly. In this game I'm not scared to stay down deep for long periods of time either but that's because I know that if I die I can just go down stairs, grab a soda and something to eat and them come back up to the computer and start another career.

[elanaiba]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._May

[Drnaline]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._MayWow, nice history lesson. Democrats, giving away secrets, and corruption go way back, LOL.

[Sailor Steve]

:hmm: And what max depth for jap's depthcharges???
As i know max depth for british and usa was 150m in real world.....:know:
It was worse than that:
98 or 197 feet (30 or 60 m)
Later versions included a 295 foot (90 m) setting
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMJAP_ASW.htm

The reason they were effective was because the Americans didn't know they were only good to 60 meters. Keeping a sub down is just as useful as killing it, if it can't surface and outrun the convoy.

As for the British and Americans, they too only went to 90 meters; but, as was stated earlier, a submarine doesn't start at that depth, it starts at periscope depth, or on the surface. The idea is to catch the sub before it gets deeper than the charges can go.
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMUS_ASW.htm

[Rockin Robbins]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._MayWow, nice history lesson. Democrats, giving away secrets, and corruption go way back, LOL.
But let's not take it to the Democrats evil, Republicans good level. There have been corrupt Republicans as well as corrupt Democrats. Evil respects no boundaries of party, religion, nationality, race, creed or shoe size. Often times the more conscientious an organization is to fight evil, the more successful evil is, destroying its host in the bargain. The failure of presently fashionable worldviews to deal properly with the problem of evil (often denying its very existence) is a significant defect of today's societies.

I am Republican by nature, valuing individual liberty over security just about every time and believing that equality of opportunity is the desirable goal and equality of outcome is a cruel hoax. But I recognize moral defects everywhere, including the party within which my sympathies lie.

And let's not write off Andrew May's slip of the tongue as corruption. How about the American news media repeating his allegation? The news media was the immediate source of the information the Japanese used to kill an estimated 800 sub sailors. Security is always a problem within a society not used to having to worry what it reveals about itelf.

Interestingly, it was the purposeful giving of secrets to the Soviet Union that helped a lot to hasten its downfall. The US allowed the Soviets to obtain precise plans for anti-missile systems, computers, weapons systems, and the Soviets were incapable of making any use of the information! Can you imagine how disheartening this was from top to bottom of their organization? For a fictional and prescient (caused no end of trouble for the author) treatment of what happened read Stephen Coontz' "Cardinal in the Kremlin." Fascinating!

[Chock]

Not sure how well it is modeled in the sim, but in theory, the deeper you go, the better your chances of survival usually are, for two reasons: first, there is a longer transit time for the depth charges, so you have more time to take evasive action; second, a depth charge has to be closer to an object to be effective in direct relation to how deep it goes, in order for the blast to overcome the increasing water pressure.

But there is a caveat to all that. If a depth charge does manage to go off close to your sub when you are deep, it will cause more damage, as the increased water pressure deflects more of the blast toward your submarine. This is the principle the Upkeep Mine used (or Bouncing bomb if you prefer the more popular name) when it was utilised to attack the German dams in WW2. So all that stuff you see in war movies where depth charges clatter down the side of a sub's hull before going off five feet underneath the thing, and all it does is spray a bit of water on the crew before they shut a valve off is probably complete crap, as something like that would almost certainly crack the pressure hull.

Having been fortunate enough to have been taken on an interior tour of U-534 (The Type IX German sub which was raised from the Skageraak), before it was closed to the public, I can report that the damage from the pressure wave of the detonating depth bomb dropped from a Liberator which sank it, was staggering; it had split the hull in the rear over about four to five feet, bending the plates inwards, and the pressure from this had also completely squashed one of the pipes running along the overhead nearby, literally like someone standing on an empty beer can.

The Japanese initially thought that US submarines could not go as deep as they could in actuality, and for the early part of the war, they generally set their depth charges to go off way to shallow, and US submarines were generally very robust too, meaning they could often go a lot deeper than the specs suggested. Later in the war the Japanese realised the error of their tactics and started blasting things a lot deeper.

:D Chock

[John Channing]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._MayWow, nice history lesson. Democrats, giving away secrets, and corruption go way back, LOL.
But let's not take it to the Democrats evil, Republicans good level. There have been corrupt Republicans as well as corrupt Democrats. Evil respects no boundaries of party, religion, nationality, race, creed or shoe size. Often times the more conscientious an organization is to fight evil, the more successful it is, destroying its host in the bargain. The failure of presently fashionable worldviews to deal properly with the problem of evil (often denying its very existence) is a significant defect of today's societies.

I am Republican by nature, valuing individual liberty over security just about every time and believing that equality of opportunity is the desirable goal and equality of outcome is a cruel hoax. But I recognize moral defects everywhere, including the party within which my sympathies lie.

And let's not write off Andrew May's slip of the tongue as corruption. How about the American news media repeating his allegation? The news media was the immediate source of the information the Japanese used to kill an estimated 800 sub sailors. Security is always a problem within a society not used to having to worry what it reveals about itelf.

Interestingly, it was the purposeful giving of secrets to the Soviet Union that helped a lot to hasten its downfall. The US allowed the Soviets to obtain precise plans for anti-missile systems, computers, weapons systems, and the Soviets were incapable of making any use of the information! Can you imagine how disheartening this was from top to bottom of their organization? For a fictional and prescient (caused no end of trouble for the author) treatment of what happened read Stephen Coontz' "Cardinal in the Kremlin." Fascinating!

I believe it was Tom Clancy and "Cardinal of the Kremiln".

JCC

[Rockin Robbins]

I believe it was Tom Clancy and "Cardinal of the Kremiln".

JCC
And my sometimes scrambled brain.

[tater]

Beaten to it. The Type 95 only had 2 possible depth settings. 30m, and 60m. if you were at 45m depth, it was either gonna blow 15m above, or below you. IN 1943 they added a 90m setting.

In game, the only control available is the error. So set it to 5m, and the ship aims at your sub at 45m, and the DC goes off at 40-50m. This is the reason escorts blow their sterns off. They aim at you at say 10m, and the depth error is set to 5m, the DC goes off at 5m to 15m. 5m is inside the damage radius of the DC, and the ship blows off the stern. (hmmm, making the DC racks harder to damage might be a good idea...).

Sadly, the sim file includes a DC explosion depth setting, but it is not used. If it was, you could set 1 rack to 30m, and make another rack and set it to 60m, and you'd have a historical IJN DC load (you'd just have to make a new set of DC racks with 2 for each load you wanted).

I really wish they were not overridden by the AI. This is important because they should not have the fine depth control they do have. The problem then would come into play for the Type 2 DCs. They had a 7.5m depth setting range, so much finer control.

[JALU3]

Beaten to it. The Type 95 only had 2 possible depth settings. 30m, and 60m. if you were at 45m depth, it was either gonna blow 15m above, or below you. IN 1943 they added a 90m setting.

In game, the only control available is the error. So set it to 5m, and the ship aims at your sub at 45m, and the DC goes off at 40-50m. This is the reason escorts blow their sterns off. They aim at you at say 10m, and the depth error is set to 5m, the DC goes off at 5m to 15m. 5m is inside the damage radius of the DC, and the ship blows off the stern. (hmmm, making the DC racks harder to damage might be a good idea...).

Sadly, the sim file includes a DC explosion depth setting, but it is not used. If it was, you could set 1 rack to 30m, and make another rack and set it to 60m, and you'd have a historical IJN DC load (you'd just have to make a new set of DC racks with 2 for each load you wanted).

I really wish they were not overridden by the AI. This is important because they should not have the fine depth control they do have. The problem then would come into play for the Type 2 DCs. They had a 7.5m depth setting range, so much finer control.

Thank you for your boundless amounts of Knowledge Tater. What this community would do without you is beyond me.

Any chance you can add this to a stand alone mod in the future? I mean where the destroyers are actually limited to as close to real world Depth Charges as you can make with the code you have on hand.

[John Channing]

I believe it was Tom Clancy and "Cardinal of the Kremiln".

JCC
And my sometimes scrambled brain.

Age (and debauchery) wearies us all.

JCC

[Wilko]

I believe it was Tom Clancy and "Cardinal of the Kremiln".

JCC
And my sometimes scrambled brain.

Age (and debauchery) wearies us all.

JCC

well I made debauchery a way of life from 16 to around 26 so it has taken a bit of a toll... now what was it we were discussing again :doh:

[John Channing]

I believe it was Tom Clancy and "Cardinal of the Kremiln".

JCC
And my sometimes scrambled brain.

Age (and debauchery) wearies us all.

JCC

well I made debauchery a way of life from 16 to around 26 so it has taken a bit of a toll... now what was it we were discussing again :doh:

That's the great thing about geting old... you are always meeting new people. Sometimes for the third and fourth time!

JCC