View Full Version : Has Anyone heard of the Liberty Dollar???
elite_hunter_sh3
11-19-07, 10:12 PM
So much for freedom, may as well toss that out the window.
The following message was emailed to people subscribed to libertydollar.org
Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:
I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.
For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.
We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.
But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.
This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.
The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.
I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.
Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.
Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.
Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!
If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php
Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.
Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect
Feds lower boom on alternative money
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-0...rty-usat_x.htm (http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-09-14-liberty-usat_x.htm)
www.halturnershow.com (http://www.halturnershow.com/)
*****BREAKING NEWS *****
FEDS SEIZE "LIBERTY DOLLARS" AND ALL GOLD / SILVER / PLATINUM BACKING THE PAPER VERSION OF THE LIBERTY DOLLAR!
PERFECTLY LAWFUL PRIVATE CURRENCY, IN CIRCULATION FOR YEARS, WAS BECOMING TOO MUCH COMPETITION FOR WORTHLESS FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES!
Agents from FBI and Secret Service committed armed robbery this morning when they set upon the headquarters of the LIBERTY DOLLAR and "seized" all coins, paper currency and bullion backing that currency.
The robbery lasted about 6 hours and as of now, the LIBERTY DOLLAR has been destroyed by the criminal gang calling itself the United States Government.
Folks, this is a trial run. . . . . the feds want to see what happens now that they have intentionally destroyed a "currency." They want to see if anyone will rise up and attack them for intentionally wrecking a legal and valuable currency.
If they get attacked, they know they won't be able to do the exact same thing with the U.S. Dollar. If they do not get attacked, it will be a green light to perpetrate the exact same type of wreckage upon the rest of the population by wrecking the U.S. Dollar and replacing it with the AMERO.
I think the FBI Indianapolis Division (covering Evansville) should be physically surrounded by Patriots armed with guns and the LIBERTY DOLLARS and BULLION be recovered by any means necessary. If not, the U.S. Government will feel free to perpetrate the same act upon our regular currency as they have just done to the LIBERTY DOLLAR.
For those who do not know what the "Liberty Dollar" is, watch the following videos. http://www.stormfront.org/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dflWJlbkdFc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VaBX7A9FqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMhz_ki_B7o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeHDoHguZX8
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51V6V180Y9L.jpg
bit off topic but I love Hal Turner. Used to listen to his show all the time, sad thing people never donated.
I think the FBI Indianapolis Division (covering Evansville) should be physically surrounded by Patriots armed with guns and the LIBERTY DOLLARS and BULLION be recovered by any means necessary. If not, the U.S. Government will feel free to perpetrate the same act upon our regular currency as they have just done to the LIBERTY DOLLAR.
What right does a foreign kid like yourself have to advocate such a thing?
What right does a foreign kid like yourself have to advocate such a thing?
Yeah he's foreign which means his opionion is automatically forfeit.
What right does a foreign kid like yourself have to advocate such a thing?
Yeah he's foreign which means his opionion is automatically forfeit.
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
Well I agree with him although I'm also not one of you....
The only reason they have taken the Liberty Dollar down is because the USD is going so poorly. There is no valid reason the dollar should be illegal as it is similar to trading in gold or even stocks for that matter.
What's next? Your not allowed to keep gold bullion?
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
Well I agree with him although I'm also not one of you....
The only reason they have taken the Liberty Dollar down is because the USD is going so poorly. There is no valid reason the dollar should be illegal as it is similar to trading in gold or even stocks for that matter.
What's next? Your not allowed to keep gold bullion?
I didn't say anything about that. The courts will decide the legality of both this money scheme as well as the governments response which is how it should be addressed. What I have a problem with is when a foreigner talking from the safety of another country calls for stuff like this:
"FBI office...physically surrounded by Patriots armed with guns" and "recover...by any means necessary"
Also, seeing as he's from Canada what's with his use of the word "our" as in "to perpetrate the same act upon our regular currency" when talking about the US?
I didn't say anything about that. The courts will decide the legality of both this money scheme as well as the governments response which is how it should be addressed. What I have a problem with is when a foreigner talking from the safety of another country calls for stuff like this:
"FBI office...physically surrounded by Patriots armed with guns" and "recover...by any means necessary"
Also, seeing as he's from Canada what's with his use of the word "our" as in "to perpetrate the same act upon our regular currency" when talking about the US?
Perhaps his wording was wrong but his meaning is clear. If I had assets in 'Liberty Dollars' which I probably wouldn't as it seems like a dodgey scheme anyway, but if I had money in those dollars I would be kicking up a bit of a stink over this. Patriots with guns is certainly not the way to go..... you'd need some tanks and mortars for something like this. ;)
Skybird
11-20-07, 07:45 AM
What right does a foreign kid like yourself have to advocate such a thing?
Yeah he's foreign which means his opionion is automatically forfeit.
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
For once I agree with August. The regular dollar is of concern for people around the globe and does not exclusively effect Americans, so foreigner'S interest in America's internal way of handling dollar-related actions is vital and perfectly legitimate. The liberty dollar, however, is truly internal and internationally plays no role, it affects nobody outide the US. Advocating then from the outside to start civil uprise is a bit rich.
We have three dozen local currencies in Germany as well, I hope I remember that "3 dozen" correctly. Mostly they are limited to a town or city, often just parts of a medium-sized city, and nationally do not play any significant role. Mostly it is local traders and busniess networks supporting them within the realm of their business area. There it seems to have benefits, for these currencies are survicing since years, and still occasionally new ones get implemented. Some others also have died meanwhile. Telling all this by memory and a longer essay I have read somewhere two or three years back.
Where I start to feel uncomfortable is when such currencies get named with titles like "Freiheits-Euro", or "Ron Paul dollar". The obvious pathetic political opportunism and catch-phrasing does not sound well in my ears, with "freedom fries" still on my mind... It's clear that such a currency is not so much serving a constuctive, economic interest, but gets used as a vehicle to transport a political message. And that should not be what currencies are about. I assume this is in some way the background for the raids.
elite_hunter_sh3
11-20-07, 08:30 AM
its from an article :up:
elite_hunter_sh3
11-20-07, 08:32 AM
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
Well I agree with him although I'm also not one of you....
The only reason they have taken the Liberty Dollar down is because the USD is going so poorly. There is no valid reason the dollar should be illegal as it is similar to trading in gold or even stocks for that matter.
What's next? Your not allowed to keep gold bullion?
bingo!!, the Feds dont like competition :up: :yep:
JSLTIGER
11-20-07, 11:46 AM
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
Well I agree with him although I'm also not one of you....
The only reason they have taken the Liberty Dollar down is because the USD is going so poorly. There is no valid reason the dollar should be illegal as it is similar to trading in gold or even stocks for that matter.
What's next? Your not allowed to keep gold bullion?
bingo!!, the Feds dont like competition :up: :yep:
Actually, the competition is illegal. Only the US Mint has the legal authority to coin anything intended to be used as money within the US, and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing covers anything involving paper money.
bit off topic but I love Hal Turner. Used to listen to his show all the time, sad thing people never donated.
Big surprise.
BTW August, I disagree about foreigners commenting on other countries. I used to get annoyed when Americans made comments on Canadian politics (I know it's as rare as hen's teeth) or other countries til I realised everyone does it anyway. Fact is, a well informed foreign opinion is worth more than an ignorant domestic one FWIW.
When it comes to advocating stuff like that it darn sure does.
Well I agree with him although I'm also not one of you....
The only reason they have taken the Liberty Dollar down is because the USD is going so poorly. There is no valid reason the dollar should be illegal as it is similar to trading in gold or even stocks for that matter.
What's next? Your not allowed to keep gold bullion?
bingo!!, the Feds dont like competition :up: :yep:
Actually, the competition is illegal. Only the US Mint has the legal authority to coin anything intended to be used as money within the US, and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing covers anything involving paper money.
Well that settles it, fact is no country would tolerate somebody printing their own money to compete with the local currency.
RickC Sniper
11-20-07, 03:13 PM
The Liberty Dollar is not legal tender, not a coin, not currency in the sense of government coinage.
But it is used as a means of private barter. If both partys agree to accept the Liberty Dollar in a transaction no law has been broken.
BTW August, I disagree about foreigners commenting on other countries. I used to get annoyed when Americans made comments on Canadian politics (I know it's as rare as hen's teeth) or other countries til I realised everyone does it anyway. Fact is, a well informed foreign opinion is worth more than an ignorant domestic one FWIW.
It's not just any comment Joe, it's the use of "our" when he's not a member of this country as well as his eagerness for armed confrontation amongst others. He's like the person who hovers on the edge of a fight screaming "kill him".
Imagine for a second me saying something like "Canadian patriots armed with guns ought to surround the local Mountie office and take back that seized evidence by any means necessary because they have no right to mess with our Canadian currency".
Now we're I to say something like that you would have every right to object to my use of the word "our" as well as to keep my Yankee nose out of your business. Right?
http://www.nysun.com/article/66642
This article shed more light on the the seizure and is not one sided. The currency is a joke and it appears he is trying to defraud bot US currency by passing the money off to unsuspecting merchants and investors by basically selling silver at 70% its value.
FYI:
"Tune into CNN tonight (11/20/2007) at 7:00pm EST. Bernard von NotHaus to be featured on the Glenn Beck show!"
RickC Sniper
11-20-07, 03:43 PM
August I have issues with elite_hunter as well.
...this post of his in a different thread about George W. Bush.
"hes not a man at all, hes a filthy moronic coward, only thing he deserves right now, is to be tortured to the extreme, then executed... "
His posts are often irrational and his opinions juvenile.
RickC Sniper
11-20-07, 03:48 PM
What if a bank chose to print it's own currency?
An interesting article on this topic.
"all kinds of alternative currencies exist. Gift certificates, Disney Dollars, casino
chips, product-purchase points, and so on are all forms of exchange that lie somewhere on the spectrum between barter and honest-to-God Federal Reserve Notes. Back in the bad old days, companies that ran company towns paid workers in company scrip that could be redeemed nowhere but the company store. These days, credit card and other companies often use airline miles as de facto scrip to reward loyal customers."
http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/1171681660.pdf
elite_hunter_sh3
11-20-07, 04:54 PM
It is all about THIS: "For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday." http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm
Ron Paul has promised to kill the Federal Reserve, and the Money Masters hate him for that. These folks put Ron Paul's likeness on their coins. :shifty::shifty:
His posts are often irrational and his opinions juvenile. nice insult :up:
this is from the NORFED site, take a good look:
http://www.norfed.org/graphics/home/nationaldebt.jpghttp://www.norfed.org/graphics/home/purchasepower.jpg
Notice, the federal debt really takes off at 1945, at the end of WWII.
by the way, about the real dollar:
The name Thaler (from German thal, or nowadays usually Tal, "valley", cognate with "dale" in English) came from the German coin Guldengroschen ("great guilder", being of silver but equal in value to a gold guilder), minted from the silver from a rich mine at Joachimsthal - Jáchymov (St. Joachim's Valley) in Bohemia (then part of the Holy Roman Empire, now part of the Czech Republic). The basis of "thaler" comes from Joachimsthaler.[1] The name is historically related to the tolar in Slovenia (Slovenian tolar) and Bohemia, the daalder in the Netherlands and daler in Sweden, Denmark, and Norway.
In the early days of the United States, the dollar was a defined unit of trade equal to 412.5 grains (26.73 g) of 90% silver. Today the closest definition to a dollar comes from the United States code Title 31, Section 5116, paragraph b, subsection 2, "The Secretary [of the Treasury] shall sell silver under conditions the Secretary considers appropriate for at least $1.292929292 a fine troy ounce." However Federal Reserve banks are only prejudiced to deliver tax credits instead of money. The silver content of U.S. coinage was mostly removed in 1965 and the dollar essentially became a baseless free-floating fiat currency;
That time of real-deal-value dollar is long gone.
Liberty Dollar used silver and gold. How could that "compete with the circulating coinage" since the US mint doesn't issue any silver or gold coins for circulation?
The US mint makes silver and gold bullion coin, which isn't meant to circulate. You can buy them from a coin dealer, or online, in the USA, along with the same type of coins from Canada, Mexico, Britain, South Africa, Australia, and China. All of these foreign coins compete with the silver and gold bullion coins of the US mint.
You can accept whatever species of money you want to in payment. That is a right of contract. Constitutionally, the US government cannot force you to accept payment in a particular species. But then, the US government has stopped paying any attention to the US Constitution.
The coins the US mint issues are tokens, and not lawful money. See 12 USC 411,412 for a definition of lawful money. How can you break the law by competing with something that is not lawful?
The Phoenix Dollar (http://www.phoenixdollar.com/)
Here is yet another alternative currency company, offering silver dollars made of real silver. And no FBI raid.
pretty sure that the Liberty Dollar was taken down because Bush was jealous over the Ron Paul dollar.
Why didn't the FBI raid THIS place! (http://coinable.com/)
Here is another company that produces .999 fine silver and gold coins, with their own artwork (heck, you can have YOUR face, or even MY face on a coin .... maybe not).
You don't see the FBI kicking down their doors, do you?
:roll:
[QUOTE][Actually, the competition is illegal. Only the US Mint has the legal authority to coin anything intended to be used as money within the US, and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing covers anything involving paper money./QUOTE]
JSLTIGER
11-20-07, 04:56 PM
Company towns aren't allowed to do that any more, that's why the practice stopped. Plus, using airline miles to reward credit card loyalty is not a transaction in a sense. In order for a true transaction to occur, something has to be given up on both sides. For a contract to be legal, at least a token amount must be traded to ensure that both parties entering the contract are being considered.
This is not the case when the credit card companies essentially give the miles for nothing but "loyalty."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_%28legal))
It's not just any comment Joe, it's the use of "our" when he's not a member of this country as well as his eagerness for armed confrontation amongst others. He's like the person who hovers on the edge of a fight screaming "kill him".
Imagine for a second me saying something like "Canadian patriots armed with guns ought to surround the local Mountie office and take back that seized evidence by any means necessary because they have no right to mess with our Canadian currency".
Now we're I to say something like that you would have every right to object to my use of the word "our" as well as to keep my Yankee nose out of your business. Right?
Well, I was speaking in general terms but yes in this particular case you are right. Which is why I said, well-informed posters. Not confused young teens who don't even realise what certain extremist movements and their "spiritual grandfathers" really think of their ethnic group, nor what communism really meant.
RickC Sniper
11-20-07, 05:10 PM
His posts are often irrational and his opinions juvenile. nice insult :up:
I'll amend it.
His posts are often irrational and his opinions juvenile IMO.
bookworm_020
11-20-07, 05:46 PM
There doesn't seem a shortage on alternate currency out there in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States
Anyone for a brass razoo?
There doesn't seem a shortage on alternate currency out there in the USA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_community_currencies_in_the_United_States
Anyone for a brass razoo?
I'll buy that for a dollar!
Hey, we've got alternative currencies in Canada, too!
Convert your savings to Canadian Tire Money. NOW. :doh:
waste gate
11-20-07, 09:32 PM
I would say that the US gov't has much more important things to do than go after a group involved in the barter system with their own barter currency. No where on the coins does it mention being US tender.
Don't trade with me bro!!!
http://www.netech.biz/images/bartercard_card.jpg
http://slog.thestranger.com/files/2006/10/arrest.JPG
bookworm_020
11-20-07, 11:53 PM
To think that the Australian dollar was once called the Pacific Peso!:doh:
To think that the Australian dollar was once called the Pacific Peso!:doh:
Better that then having German currency. I hear they keep it in their undies!!!
:rotfl::rotfl:
Yeah it's a lame joke but I'll never let an opportunity to say it slip.
I would say that the US gov't has much more important things to do than go after a group involved in the barter system with their own barter currency. No where on the coins does it mention being US tender.
I believe the argument is that it looks close enough to potentially fool people into thinking it is.
From Swiftys linked article:
...features a profile of a crowned Lady Liberty as well as the lettering USA and "Trust In God," which federal authorities say is illegal.
These symbols and language are similar enough to coinage from the U.S. Mint that the Liberty Dollars "are easily confused with legitimate United States Currency," a purported affidavit apparently filed last week in support of the search warrant claims
using airline miles to reward credit card loyalty is not a transaction in a sense. In order for a true transaction to occur, something has to be given up on both sides. For a contract to be legal, at least a token amount must be traded to ensure that both parties entering the contract are being considered.
This is not the case when the credit card companies essentially give the miles for nothing but "loyalty."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_(legal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppercorn_%28legal))
Just picking you up on an error in your logic. How do you think the credit card companies get the airline miles? Airlines do not "give" them to the credit card companies, they sell them to credit card companies for legal tender. Both parties giving up something. This is how airlines create value from these schemes otherwise they would have no incentive to set them up in the first place.
As to the credit card company customer, they are "given" the points as a "reward" for paying for things with the credit card. In reality they are "sold" to the customer at a rate that is covered by the merchant service fees and interest payments (both ultimately paid for by the customer). Seriously whether you realise it or not you are paying for every one of the "free" points you get when you use a card. It has simply been sold to you in a more palatable way.
Do you really think points and loyalty schemes are about loyalty? They are all about generating value from establishing an alternative currency which is traded between entities who most certainly both give something up when points are being transferred between them.
Tchocky
11-21-07, 08:02 AM
I feel guilty every time I use my loyalty card, as I have been seeing other supermarkets on the side..
bookworm_020
11-22-07, 07:29 PM
I feel guilty every time I use my loyalty card, as I have been seeing other supermarkets on the side..
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Don't worry too much, they only like you for your money!
Tchocky
11-23-07, 07:19 AM
I feel guilty every time I use my loyalty card, as I have been seeing other supermarkets on the side..
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Don't worry too much, they only like you for your money!
It'S NOT TRUE!
*runs off in floods of tears*
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