More Variable Weather??!!

[Subtype Zero]

Kaleuns--
Everyone knows what they say about the weather in SH3: "Everybody complains about the weather, but nobody ever does anything about it!" Sadly, I cannot report that I have "done" much of anything to fix the weather probs in SH3 either. :nope: However, after reading the forum and seeing the efforts of a few other "weather modders," I have made a few changes in the data/campaigns/campaign/Campaign.mis files to give me a more variable, dynamic, and yes, changeable weather experience than I thought otherwise possible.

Here are my settings:
Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=2 //2 allows for more dynamic cloud changes
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=4.000000
WindRand=2 //2 allows for more dynamic wind speed and direction changes
WeatherRndInterval=2 //2 means SH3 will perform a "dice roll" every 2 hours to determine if the weather has changed.

Note: WeatherRndInterval can range from 1 to 72. I feel that setting this to "1" makes the weather too freakishly variable, while anything above "3" makes the weather maddingly boring. I also left FogRand to "1" because I feel that fog should hang around longer and not change so dramatically. CloudsRand and WindRand are left at "2" because clouds and wind seem to be the most variable IRL.

Be sure to copy these changes into all of the Campaign.mis folders for this to work. I hope some people will try these settings and let me know how they like (or don't like) them. You are also free to adjust to your own personal taste. Also, please note that I did not discover these variables or how they work. I'm just passing along information I've gleaned from some of the really smart people.... :up:

[Spin Doctor]

Thanks for this input. I backed up my mis files and am going to try your changes. My main complaint (althought probably just plain bad luck) is that nearly every patrol starts off with great weather and 90% of the time, as I get near my patrol grid, a storm blows up that lasts for weeks. So after wrestling with that, getting low on fuel and torps, I head back and of course, the sun is out and the sea is smooth as glass. :damn:

Granted, there are times when attacking in bad weather is an advantage, but it would be nice to be able to set up a shot from 1000m instead of not being able to see anything until the ship is about to ram you.

I'll let you know how it works out in a few days.

[Spin Doctor]

These changes seem to be working well.

I had previously been in a furious storm which had so far lasted for seveal days. Heavy fog and rain with high winds, of course. After the file changes and as I made my way south toward Gibraltar, a few hours laterthe skies cleared. Still had the wind, but within a day, the seas turned to glass and visibility was excellent.

Maybe it would have changed on it's own, but I feel I'd still be in a storm without your mod.

Thank you.

[Subtype Zero]

Glad to hear someone not complaining about the weather for a change! :cool:
Personally, I like the way the weather shifts with these changes. Currently, I'm on a two week cruise to AM 47 (just got there) and the longest stretch of foul, rainy weather was about 3-4 days. Of course, it's August of 1940, so I'll have to see what November has in store for me.

So far, my favorite moment with the weather changes was when I was stalking a lone merchant. After I got into a good firing position, I submerged to wait for my prey. When I popped my 'scope to have a look see, the weather had turned from clear skies to overcast with heavy fog, but no rain. I surfaced just in time to see the merchant emerge from the fog about 600 meters away. I had just enough time to fire before he disappeared again into the fog. Scratch one merchant!

One minor point. I'm not sure if I'd call this a mod. I didn't really do anything other than change a couple of numbers in a text file based upon what I've read about the experiences of others on this forum who have tried wrestling with this problem. I wouldn't know a hex file from a hole in the ground! Glad to hear that you like it, though!

If the weather is changing too rapidly for your taste, try WeatherRndInterval=3 instead of WeatherRndInterval=2. I recently changed mine to 3 and I think I like it a little better than 2.

[She-Wolf]

I would like to try Sub Zero's weather mod but not sure how. I have looked in my Campaign folder, where he says to copy the info to ( as a text file?), but do not see anything else relating to weather in there. Am I being stupid again? Please point me in the direction I need to go. I DID look down the list of mods available but did not see any weather ones there...perhaps I need to look again?:o

[Subtype Zero]

She-Wolf,
My weather modifications aren't really a mod, just a couple of changes in three of the game's text files. To find what needs to be replaced, go to your SilentHunterIII/data/Campaigns/Campaign folder. In that folder, you will find three files: Campaign_LND.mis, Campaign_RND.mis, and Campaign_SCR.mis At the top of each of these files, you will find the following:

[Mission]
Title=GWXR1.02FULL
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=1
Year=1939
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=12
Minute=0
Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=2
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=4.000000
WindRand=2
WeatherRndInterval=3
SeaType=0
Briefing=

Find the part highlighted in red and replace the numbers you see in your file with the numbers I have shown here. Remember to do this with all three of your Campaign files for these changes to work. Note you do not have to be in port in order to make these changes.

Keep in mind that the most important parameter is the WeatherRndInterval. Although the game allows you to set this number to anything between 1 and 72, setting it to between 2-4 gives the best results, IMHO. I think the game default is 12! Please note that a lower WeatherRndInterval number translates into more frequent changes in cloud cover, fog, percipitation, windspeed and wind direction, or all at the same time! Feel free to tinker with this number to your own personal taste. :|\\

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other problems.

[She-Wolf]

thank you Subtype Zero, I will print it off and follow it through, and I am sorry for getting your name wrong before ( cheesy grin ):D

[Badger Finn]

Handy little add on that works with SH3 Commander. Also the place where u save a game seems to effect weather changes. Pays to play out a few days between saves which enhances weather patterns to change

[Subtype Zero]

I believe SH3WeatherGen only randomizes the weather settings at the start of your patrol, so if it sets WeatherRndInterval to a high number, you will not get very many changes in your weather pattern until you start a new patrol or reload SH3Weather. This can lead to those 14 consecutive days or more of stormy weather where you can't see or sink anything.

Without knowing what numbers SH3Weather assigns to the WeatherRndInterval parameter, I like setting it manually to the settings I have discussed, because I think it gives me more variety in the weather during any given patrol.

BTW, my posts are not meant to be a put-down of SH3Weather in any way. It's still a great program and light years better than anything I could come up with--especially for those who are not comfortable mucking about with game text files. Cheers! :lol:

[gimpy117]

i really think we sould have weather change from day to day rather than some hours... that's just my take...

[Stealth Hunter]

Anyone here know how to change the wave height by chance?

[Spin Doctor]

i really think we sould have weather change from day to day rather than some hours... that's just my take...
This text change doesn't make weather change from hour to hour. It increases the chance of variable weather. I suppose you could make it change within hours if you wanted to, but if you set the parameters as stated, it works fine and realistically.

[Spin Doctor]

Anyone here know how to change the wave height by chance?

Never heard of a mod to do that. Closeest thing we have is that you can set the max wave height with SH3 Commander, AFAIK.

[Jonathan]

I think that I could use this. One time I was in a storm that stretched from Scapa Flow to the tip of Africa and was just as wide as the Atlantic itself. I ended up finding refuge from the storm in Antarctica.

[Subtype Zero]

i really think we sould have weather change from day to day rather than some hours... that's just my take...
This text change doesn't make weather change from hour to hour. It increases the chance of variable weather. I suppose you could make it change within hours if you wanted to, but if you set the parameters as stated, it works fine and realistically.
Spin Doctor is exactly right! As I understand it, WeatherRndInterval merely sets the time (1 to 72 hours) that the game will check for a random change in the weather. It does not mean that the weather will actually change at that time, just that it has a chance to change.

My guess is that when the game is told to check for a change in the weather it does the following:
Does a "dice roll" to determine if the weather changes.
If no, the weather stays the same until the next check.
If yes, a seperate roll is made for each weather variable (fog, clouds, rain, wind, wind direction) to determine its new setting. Note that because each setting has an equal chance of getting picked (including the current setting), some dice rolls will result in that particular weather variable staying the same. Therefore, even if the game has determined that a change in the weather should take place, that does not mean that all (or any!) of the weather settings will change.

If I am correct, that means that a WeatherRndInterval setting of 72, for example, will result in the game checking for a chance to change the weather only once every three days! :huh: If the dice roll fails, it will be another three days before the weather is checked again! Even then the weather might not change all that much. Not very much variation, if you ask me!

[Subtype Zero]

Gimpy,

In my experience, setting WeatherRndInterval to 2 or 3 results in weather changes that at least approximate real-life weather changes. Sometimes you get clouds and rain for three or four days straight, and sometimes you have clouds in the morning but clearing by afternoon. So far, I have not seen any wild or unrealistic weather changes using my settings.

My advice is to give my suggestions a try and see if they seem realistic to you. If not, you can easily use SH3Weather to change all of the weather settings except WeatherRndInterval to values you prefer. To change WeatherRndInterval, just go to your SH3/data/campaigns/campaign folder and change the three files mentioned earlier in this thread.

Good luck and let me know how it works out!

[Subtype Zero]

Hi all--Just an update on my weather settings. In general, I'm still happy with the settings I listed in the first post in this thread. I still get some really long periods of bad weather, but I guess that is life in the North Atlantic for you! ;) Most of the settings seem to work pretty good, but I still go back and forth on WindRand and WeatherRndInterval. WindRand is particularly tricky, and I'm re-thinking my recommendation of using a setting of "2" with that variable. "1" seems to work better, and I'm even considering trying a setting of "0"! As far as WeatherRndInterval is concerned, a setting of "2" or "3" seems to do the trick most of the time.

I've also found some interesting weather settings in the scene.dat file, located in the SH3/data folder, but I'll have to learn hex-editing before I can make any headway with those variables! :stare:

Please let me know if you have any good or bad experiences with these settings!

[Sigurd]

"1" seems to work better, and I'm even considering trying a setting of "0"!
I'm predicting bad things will happen if you set it to 0. From what I can gather, the variable is set in hours, so setting it to 0 hours will result in one of three things (my guess of course):

1) It will take to doing a check for random weather constantly, which would overload your CPU causing a massive slow down, and possibly crash SH3.

2) That variable might be used elsewhere in the weather calculations, and you might end up dividing by 0 or something, which would result in SH3 crashing.

3) It will never check for weather.

[Spin Doctor]

I agree with the above. Don't go to zero...

[Subtype Zero]

Hi, guys.
I think you can set all of the values to zero except for the WeatherRndInterval setting. In fact, I have set several of the other values to zero at various time without ill effects. For instance, even though we have been told that setting any of the xxxRand values to zero will result in no changes in that variable, that is not true. Fog will still come and go, rain will still occur, etc. Instead of "none" it's more like "a little bit"

I wouldn't set WeatherRndInterval to 0 though, although it wil probably still work. The game would probably just use a default value.

[difool2]

Hmm must these numbers be integers I wonder-would perhaps "1.5" work best for WeatherRndInterval setting say...

[Blacklight]

I've been playing with the above settings for a while now. My first trip out, I ran into a crazy storm that lasted for about two weeks or so. This current trip however seems to be staying calm and I havn't seen a heck of a lot of weather change yet. Wind has increased on me from 3 to 7 knots, a little fog rolled in, but that was it. It's been smooth sailing so far. But We'll see what happens.. I'm still less than halfway through the tour. I'm just reaching my patrol area northwest of Shetland and have like 11 torpedoes left (and I never return until they're all gone).

After the patrol of my assigned grid, I plan to slide down the west coast of England and linger off the coast of Ireland for a bit where all the convoys come out. Hopefully *knocks wood and tosses a horseshoe over his shoulder* the weather will remain nice while I'm hunting down there.:sunny:

[difool2]

Well, Subtype Zero, I regret to inform you that your weather mod didn't work for me-at all. 5 straight days with the exact same weather AND wind direction! I am running GWX 2.0 with SH Commander, if that makes any difference; perhaps there's something in there which is "co-opting" your modifications to the campaign.mis files. As for me I'm stumped.

[Subtype Zero]

Hi,

First, I don't consider my settings to be a "mod" as I have not permanently altered any of the game files. It's more like minor tweaking of some of the text files. Second, I can't guarantee results! :D The way the game handles weather is too "mucked up" for me to do that. Instead, these are just some suggested settings that I have found to give me, on average, more variable weather over the course of a patrol. Third, even if you get rain and wind for 15 straight days does not mean you are guaranteed to get sunny and calm the next day. This is known as the gambler's fallacy. With any random event, say like tossing a coin, the chances that a coin will land tails is always 50-50, even if the coin has been heads the previous 15 times in a row (unlikely, but possible)!

That being said, I think the game tends to default to 15 m/sec winds, either by design or by accident. Since I am from the USA, I can't say for sure, but I believe that 2 week storms are not all that rare in the North Atlantic. Also, I've noticed a bug in the program. The longer your patrol, the longer it takes for your weather to change from one setting to another. See this thread for a more detailed explanation for this and other problems with SH3 and weather:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126535&highlight=weather+control

Stiebler and I are working on a mod to adjust some of the weather settings found in scene.dat, but we have found that without access to the SH3 SDK, it is very difficult to make any changes that have any profound effects on the weather in the game . :x

[difool2]

Mind, no flames intended or implied. :cool:

Just trying to get to the bottom of all this. My other hunch is that weather never updates during high time compression, tho, given the apparent fact that the weather timer "resets" when you reload a save, I tried slowing TC down to 1x every two hours on the exact minute when I made the save (actually one minute before). I'll try setting wind and weather changes from 2 to 1 as you mentioned in one of your earlier posts next. Just really porks the immersion when the weather never changes...

[Subtype Zero]

DiFool2, or may I call you fool? :lol: No offense taken, no offense meant. I understand your aggravation, the weather system in SH3 is aggravating.

Interesting observation about the weather not updating during high TC. In my testing, I have found that the weather updates according to a fairly regular schedule: within 32-34 hours after leaving port, even under high TC. This interval lengthens by one hour for each subsequent change in the weather, resulting in longer and longer intervals between weather changes. As a result, by the time you are near the end of a four week patrol, your weather does not change from its last setting for a period of at least 48 hours or so. To add insult to injury, when the weather does change, it may only be a change of one parameter, like wind direction, while all the other variables remain the same. Thus, 3 steady weeks of heavy rain, fog, and 15 m/sec wind! :stare: Furthermore, at high TC's of 1048 or above, (while the other weather variables can and do change), wind speed sometimes gets "stuck" and stays at 15 m/sec. Recently, while testing at a TC of 2096, I had a run of 30 straight days of 15 m/sec wind!!! :doh: It was only after I dropped to a TC of 512 that my wind finally died down to "only" 7 m/sec. :roll:

Finally, as you and others have noted, when you save and reload a game, the "timer" for weather changes resets to zero. So, if you save just before the weather is scheduled to change (say, 42 hours after the last change), after you reload the game, you will have to wait another 42 hours for the weather to finally change, for a grand total of almost 84 hours between any weather changes at all!! :arrgh!:

In conclusion, to avoid getting stuck with long periods of unchanging, lousy weather, you must avoid high TC for long periods of time AND avoid saving IF you think the weather is about to change. After the weather changes in some way, go ahead and save to your heart's content (note: as long as you are not submerged, near land, or near any sinking ships--did I leave anything out)? :damn:

P.S. Remember, you can get a rough estimate of when the weather in your game is about to change by 1) keeping track of the number of weather changes that have already occurred, 2) take the number found in step 1 and add 32-34 to it, 3) estimate when the weather last changed in your game, and 4) add the number found in step 2 to the time of the last weather change you found in step 3. For example, say you have been at sea for one week and have noticed approximately 5 weather changes. Add 5 to 32 and 34 for a range of 37 to 39 hours. If your weather last changed at 0300 hours on June 1, then you can expect the weather to change next time sometime between 1600 and 1800 hours on June 2.

[mcf1]

I'll try this right away. Because on my last patrol after sucessfull hunt, attacking a task force and later a convoi scored about 90000 tons but didn't had any torpedoes left. I met so many lonely C3's and C2's but i was inside a storm, which lasted almost a week and that's not all I also rammed my VIIB while trying to dock, because of the heavy fog :damn:

[Subtype Zero]

Good luck and let me know how it turns out! :up:

[difool2]

I must apologize to Subtype Zero: when I ran his changes the first time I was in mid-patrol. After I got back I redid his changes again, and two patrols later I think it is working. I got the impression from SZ's posts that I would be seeing weather changes 1-3 times a day, and wind changes 2-6 times a day. Well while I've had nothing so drastic, weather does seem to change significantly once every 5 days or so, and wind once every day or two more or less. Visibility once every 3 days perhaps.

On my most recent patrol I got out of port with the usual balmy skies, then ran into a storm for a week off Norway, then sailed west, got clear skies with 15 m/s winds for 3 days, then the wind speed dropped to 11, then 7 and now 0 (tho I think it picked up to around 3 in the last day or so). Had no clouds whatsoever tho for 2 weeks now. This is with WindRand & WeatherRndInterval both set to 1.

[GlobalExplorer]

Stiebler and I are working on a mod to adjust some of the weather settings found in scene.dat, but we have found that without access to the SH3 SDK, it is very difficult to make any changes that have any profound effects on the weather in the game . :x

Go for it. Weather is one of the most annoying things in SHIII (way too much storm and too little calm weather) and balancing the weather will earn you a place in the annals.

I say this because imo only a change to either the dat files or the exe will make a difference. Fiddling with the mis file has been done for years and no balance could be achieved.

I wished someone from the devs would read this and offer an inofficial solution. If you have access to the source this thing could be done in hours or days, while the community has strived for it for years.

Thinking in to the future, it would be great if the dat files could be randomized outside of the game, because then even weather forecasts by radio would be feasible.

[Blacklight]

I've tried the above modifications and they DO seem to make a difference in the weather I've experienced.

You can also cheat kind of and save your game constantly while in good, pristine weather. Then you'll have perfect weather the whole trip ! (I don't do this though:D )

[difool2]

Yeah after 3 more days in my current patrol it is still working. Had a change after 2 days from calm winds & clear skies to partly cloudy and 12 knots, then in one 24 hour period the wind went to 15 knots and the skies back to clear again. I wonder if the change window (WeatherRndInterval=1) is one day tho not one hour as Subtype Zero intimated, because I haven't seen more than 1 change per day. If that is the case, and in vanilla it is a 12 day window, and not 12 hours (with said window resetting when you reload the save), then no wonder nothing ever happens!

[Subtype Zero]

Ah, feedback! Just when I thought the thread had died! :dead: :o

Difool2: No apologies necessary. Half of what I say is probably wrong, so no worries there! Glad to hear that your changes are having some effect. Steibler and I have found that wind direction is the variable that is most likely to change, it almost always changes to some degree every 32 hours or so. Wind speed, unfortunately, seems to get "stuck" at certain speeds, certainly at 15 m/sec. Steibler and I are currently debating if it also gets stuck at 0 m/sec. Stiebler did find that the presence of rain always boosts wind speed up by 7 m/sec, so there cannot be rain with winds of less than 7 m/sec :roll:

With regard to WindRndInterval variable: The mission editor states that this variable can be set from between 2 to 96 hours, so I assume we are talking about hours, not days. Also, research by Stiebler and I have found that this variable apparently does not effect how quickly the weather changes from one pattern to another, but instead, how quickly the weather transitions from one state to another when the game has determined a weather change is due (if that makes any sense)!

[Subtype Zero]

Blacklight: Yes, frequent saves freezes the weather pattern to whatever it is currently. Theoretically, if you make sure to save no later than every 32 hours, your weather pattern would never change from winds of 5 m/sec with partly cloudy skies, no rain, and light fog. I haven't tested this yet, however. Conversely, if you are in heavy wind, rain, and fog, go to a TC of no more than 512 and wait. As long as you do not save, your weather will change (a little or a lot) approximately 32+ hours after your previous weather change.

[mcf1]

It works great for me
thanks :up:

[Subtype Zero]

GlobalExplorer: The weather in SH3 really sticks in my craw, as well. I don't mind the fog and the rain so much, but that wind!!! :damn: It's almost as if the Devs never heard of rain and calm wind! Unfortunately, weather patterns in SH3 appear to be largely hardcoded. Modders can only effect, to some degree, the speed and frequency of weather changes. However, I do have some good news! You can expect to see a request for beta testers from Stiebler and I in the near future. We are currently working on a little project that we hope will address at least some of the weather concerns of the SH3 community. No promises, however. ;)

I really like your idea of weather reports. From what I understand of the code, there is actually 2 weather patterns stored in memory: the present weather and the "changed" weather. If we could somehow read the changed weather ahead of time we could then "predict" it and send it via radio message (with allowances for errors in prediction--whoever heard of a weatherman who is right more than 40% of the time, anyway)!

Lastly, I also enjoy SH Gen. very much, although it did kill my previous career when it sent me on an intelligence gathering mission inside Dunkirk harbor in early April, 1940. I believe my life span from the time all the search lights and tracers went off was about 25 seconds! :o

[Subtype Zero]

Thanks MCF1!

[Stiebler]

@Subtype Zero:

Please check PM.

Stiebler.

[Subtype Zero]

Stiebler--Check your PM, mate. ;)

[Blacklight]

Another thing to consider is that North Atlantic storms are pretty insane and I always get my worst weather in the North Atlantic. Things always calm down for me a little the closer I get to the equater.

You know, I may be wrong, but the weather seems to be spread out among latitudes. IE.. maybe like 4 or 5 northen letter boxes all the way accross the top map will seem to have one weather pattern. When you go down below then, the next 4-5 letter boxes along a certain latitude seem to always give me a change of weather. I've actually experimented. One line is just south of the English Channel it seems. The weather however seems to continue along lgroups of longitudes so it seems that the weather is developing along large bands of longitude on the map.

Some further testing will be needed to verify this.

So far, it seems that the top of the map from Canada to Britain has one weather system, and below Britain to middle Africa and accross to South America has another weather system.

It may be the map has 3 separate weather systems that each act separately as Sub Zero's theory goes.
As I said.. I'm going to do some more research on this.:hmm:

[Subtype Zero]

Blacklight--

I have forwarded your observations to Stiebler and am awaiting his comments. Have you been able to confirm anything via testing yet? However, I suspect it will be very difficult to confirm anything because so many variables and random variation are involved. Good luck, though! :know:

[difool2]

Well I think I just found a very big piece of the puzzle.

Subtype Zero: "Theoretically, if you make sure to save no later than every 32 hours, your weather pattern would never change from winds of 5 m/sec with partly cloudy skies, no rain, and light fog."

You are running WeatherRndInterval at 2, correct? Well, I run it at 1, and I just had a weather change after an in-patrol reload after...yeah you guessed it 16 hours! I also remember earlier in the patrol that it changed after about that time on a couple of occasions, but never any quicker than that (despite what the editor might say-that may have been typed in by some ignorant copy writer for all we know). So subject to further tests, it would appear that you may get changes after every:

WeatherRndInterval x 16 hours.

The chance of it actually changing at that time still needs more data to pin down, but now that I know the actual interval determining that after a sufficient number of trials should be a piece of cake. I can also see if I can catch a change "in the act", so to speak.

The default game has that variable at 5, so if you are running vanilla you will never see any changes if you are reloading after every three days (80 hours). No wonder the weather seems to get "stuck" for what seems like forever! I wonder what would happen if you used a non-integer for that value, like .1-changes every 2-4 hours? In any event the rates of change I do see now seem to be about spot-on: a storm for a few days, then clearing and/or low winds for awhile, then another storm. I do wish that "partly cloudy" encompassed a whole range of cloud types, from drifting scuds to puffy cumulus to an altostratus "mackeral" sky, and in fact partly cloudy seems to be the least common of the 3 kinds of cloud cover (clear and overcast being the other two of course).

I will continue my patrol some more and check and see if all of this holds.

[difool2]

Quick followup: apparently there is a little randomization occurring with the change window-i.e. it isn't always going to be 16 hours on the dot, but 16-18 hours I've found. Or perhaps 17 hours +/- 5% * 17 (or +/- an hour each way).' I also caught the beginning of a change-rain slacked off, then stopped, visibility improved from socked in to overcast, then about a hour later winds died down and it became partly cloudy.

[John O]

Any new info on this weather fix. I made the changes using WeatherRndInterval=3 last night but am in the middle of a patrol off NYC so I don't have any results yet. Weeks of storm on way over and after resupply. I'm really tired of stormy weather most of the time and hope this works.

[snwcrsh]

I implemented the changes, set to Interval to 2. I'm out of Wilhelmshaven for 80h, crossing the Noordsee. So far the weather has not changed, it's 4 km/h winds from 0.

Will take a while till I can report results as I am playing TCx1 :o

[Subtype Zero]

snwcrsh--The frequency that the weather changes appears to depend on a couple of factors: 1) WeatherRandInterval setting (conflicting evidence on this, some say this has an effect, others no effect, some say it has a random effect. I place myself in the third category). 2) Patrol base. For whatever reason, weather changes twice as quickly if you leave from Kiel than if you leave from Wilhelmshaven, even if you patrol the exact same area! I imagine the other bases have their own "peculiarities."

John O--We've hit a glitch regarding the weather fix, not sure if we will be able to release a mod that will significantly effect the weather algorithm set by the devs. While our changes seem to have some minor effects, we (so far) have not been able to overcome the restraints set by the game engine. However, we haven't given up yet!

difool2--I have observed some variability, too regarding when the weather pattern changes. In general, when leaving form Kiel early in the war (starting port seems to have an effect for some reason), my weather usually first changes in about 32 hours with WeatherRandInterval=2. However, I have also seen the weather change as early as 12 hours and as late as 72 hours from port, as well. So, there is some randomness built into this number, apparently.

I have gotten to be pretty good at catching the weather change "in the act" :oops:, so to speak. In general, you can watch the wind direction slowly change over a period of a couple of hours. Wind speed, however, changes quickly (within a few minutes), and frequently "pegs" at 15 m/sec, especially because rain automatically increases the wind speed by 7 m/sec. I am currently trying to slow the wind speed change down a bit, but without much success, so far. :shifty: Clouds, rain, and fog change almost immediately.

I also agree with you about the Partial clouds. Would be nice to have more variability in partly cloudy conditions. Also a shame it turns up as the least likely cloud cover, as I think it is the most pleasing.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

[GlobalExplorer]

I always thought that the weather in the Mediterranean is different in SHIII - shouldn't it then help to use the milder Med weather for the rest of the world? There are still a lot of storms in the Med, in the Atlantic it's overkill, and along the equator the weather is complete rubbish.

Shouldnt that be a possibility?

[John O]

Thanks for the update and good luck. Hope you guys lick it.

[Gezoes]

Great thread! :up:

:hmm:

[linerkiller]

Is possible to cancel the worst fog conditions? Because every time that I have to catch a convoy or a taskforce and the weather turn horribly foggy and rainy, i risk a nervous crash:damn: .
Just to cheat a bit:up:

[irish1958]

For me, the most annoying thing is the 15m/s wind if you play with the stabilizer off, and the tweaks (many mentioned above and in other threads) haven't solved this problem for me.
If one could read and write to the saved game file where the weather info is stored, then all of the problems would go away.

[Stiebler]

I was unnecessarily gloomy about progress in a previous PM to Subtype Zero, hence his pessimism above. My apologies for that.

Actually, we have made good progress, and we hope to have a new mod 'RealWeatherFix' available after further testing.

Stiebler.

[Blacklight]

Nothing new to report yet but with further testing, I've noticed that leaving from Wilhelmshaven, about 90% of the time, when I cross up into the grids (longitude) of where Scapa Flow is, the winds almost always change directly to 15 meters per seccond and all hell breaks loose (After reading the above post about the windspeed increment multipliers, it's possible that I always reach these coordinates just as the change kicks in. To test this, I'll change the windinterval or whaterver that number is a little and see what happens). I think I've narrrowed down somewhat the location of one of the weather change latitudes. What I'm going to try to do is try to drive above and below it to see if there's a line that produces a change.

It could be that the weather is set to be the same along groups of grids also. Something to consider.

This is going to be tough to really test well.:nope:

[snwcrsh]

I can confirm this observations. Left two patrols from Wilhelmshaven with calm winds (4 or 5 knots). Changed to 15 after Scapa and stayed this way for two weeks all over the atlantic (no change whatsoever)

[WolfOfCampscapel]

Gnørf. Especially annoying, seeing as 15 m/s is no big deal in the north sea. 20, or 25 (steady for an hour or two) as we had yesterday on the coast, is more like it.

It can stay at 15 m/s for days at a time. That's commonplace. 30+ steady is exceptional. 20+ is uncommon, but seen several times every autumn/winter.

... west coast of norway.

[Blacklight]

I think something may be broken with the randomised die roll for the weather. I've noticed also that the weather tends to either be 15 meters per seccond or near dead calm up to 5 meters per seccond. It's rarely in between that.

Either that or I have another theory. Perhaps it's possible that each zone has it's own set of chances or modifiers to the die roll for different kind of weather that play into the factor. Up by Scapa Flow may have a high modifier to the die roll to make it tend more toward stormy weather whereas down south near Gibraltar, It seems to be about even between calm lightly stormy.

I can definitely say that the zone around Scapa seems to produce the most storms in my experiences.

[Sniper_Fox]

would it be possible to be caught in a hurricane, or see a windfunnel (tornadoe on water, made of water):rock:

[Dekessey]

I was unnecessarily gloomy about progress in a previous PM to Subtype Zero, hence his pessimism above. My apologies for that.

Actually, we have made good progress, and we hope to have a new mod 'RealWeatherFix' available after further testing.

Stiebler.

Excellent news!!

[GlobalExplorer]

I was unnecessarily gloomy about progress in a previous PM to Subtype Zero, hence his pessimism above. My apologies for that.

Actually, we have made good progress, and we hope to have a new mod 'RealWeatherFix' available after further testing.

Stiebler.


Excellent stuff :up:

[Yoriyn]

I make some tests on the WeatherRndInterval variable. A use different numbers each time when i start new career (12 tests). I start each campaign 1 september 1939 in first flotilla in Kiel.
Everytime first weather changes have a place after 32h, second after another 33h, third 34h, fourth 35h...

Test raport:

I random save the game during tests.
Saving during patrol do not affect to weather changes, but after save and quit the game, when you load the patrol weather timer is reset (you must wait 32h before weather change)
example:
last weather change have a place 2:00am 5/09/1939 so another shut be (32h) 10:00am 6/09/1939. But when you save and exit, lets say 18:00 5/09/1939, weather changes will be 2:00am 7/09/1939.

WeatherRndInterval variable, I use numbers from -11 to 96.
Weather allways change after 32h, it's not dependant on the WeatherRndInterval value.
WeatherRndInterval < 0 weather do not change for lots of days (stay the same), only wind changes observed. For this value weather was allways rainy and foggy.
0<WeatherRndInterval<12 weather changes are most realistic (no hard weather changes)
WeatherRndInterval>12 drastic weather change everytime (from big storm to wind 0m/s, and again big storm).

I suppouse after tests, the WeatherRndInterval variable respond for:
"How many weather checks the weather will be the same. The biger value the less chance the weather stay the same in the next weather check (32h)."
And "Biger value of the WeatherRndInterval, the weather change more drastic"

[irish1958]

Yoriyn,
Great testing and a lot of work.
I really think the only way to control the weather is by cracking the saved game file and writing new values that make sense. The weather module in this game appears to be badly broken: storms lasting for weeks or months; wind going from 0m/s to 15m/s in an instant, and then staying that way for months; heavy fog with 15m/s winds; no fog when calm; pretty much the same weather in the arctic and in lower latitudes; no snow in the winter in the arctic; etc. etc. etc.

[difool2]

Dunno why you always got a change after 32 hours, because as I said above running RWI at 1 I typically get changes every 16-21 hours, including from a reload. This is departing from Kiel in the 7th/13th flotilla 1940.

I feel like we are a bunch of blind men groping an elephant trying to figure out exactly what the hey it is, and everyone seems to have a different perspective, whether because of some more subtle factor which has gone unnoticed, or whatever.

[Hanomag]

And here I thought after making the original changes I was done with the SH3 weather calamity.

I thought there was a change and the weather was not stuck on one pattern too long. But after catching up on this thread I cant possibly be right.

So keep up the good work! :up:

Im sure eventually you guys working on this will figure it out.... :yep:

[Subtype Zero]

Yoriyn--Great information! I almost always get my first weather change after 32h out of Kiel.

Saving during patrol do not affect to weather changes, but after save and quit the game, when you load the patrol weather timer is reset (you must wait 32h before weather change) example: last weather change have a place 2:00am 5/09/1939 so another shut be (32h) 10:00am 6/09/1939. But when you save and exit, lets say 18:00 5/09/1939, weather changes will be 2:00am 7/09/1939.
Good catch! I knew the counter reset after some kind of save operation, good to know it is only after a save AND exit that the reset occurs. I have also noted that WeatherRndInterval has no effect on the frequency of the weather change.

WeatherRndInterval < 0 weather do not change for lots of days (stay the same), only wind changes observed. For this value weather was allways rainy and foggy.
0<WeatherRndInterval<12 weather changes are most realistic (no hard weather changes)
WeatherRndInterval>12 drastic weather change everytime (from big storm to wind 0m/s, and again big storm).
Also very interesting! Could you be more specific about the changes you observed with WeatherRndInterval > 12? Were there always dramatic shifts in the weather? What was the effect of really high numbers, like 96? Finally, what were your other settings in the campaign.mis files? Stiebler and I are very curious about the effect of the campaign.mis files on the scene.dat file (which is getting closer to release, by the way) ;)

[Turm]

Just to throw more confusion into the mix, I have seen the weather change within an hour (game time) of loading a saved game.

In fact, I was so amazed that the weather changed after just an hour (especially after reading previously on the forum about the timer being reset) that I quit to the menu and loaded it again, and lo and behold the weather indeed changed again after an hour.

So, after reading this thread it makes me think it's one of these two things:
1) The weather was 'in the process' of changing when I saved that game, and was simply finishing it's change (because sometimes the wind can change several times in a short period of time, then no changes will happen for days),
2) Crossing some latitude or longitude possibly triggered it,
3) Or it was a freak accident and there was something odd about my save game. :D

It was in stock SH3 when it happened. Very strange, but backs up the reasoning that the WeatherRndInterval parameter has no effect on the frequency, but rather the amount of change that's possible each time the weather changes.

Watching this thread closely, let's hope for some more promising info :up:

[difool2]

All I know is, using the settings that I have now, that 3 week long storms are a thing of the past, and that's all I ever really wanted. I get changes once every day or two or three. If I knew why I get a 16 hour window while everyone else gets 32 I'd tell ya. :cool:

[irish1958]

And your current settings are?:

[difool2]

I posted them on page 2: here they are again:

Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=2
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=4.000000
WindRand=1
WeatherRndInterval=1

[irish1958]

difool2
:sunny:Thanks,
With all the changes suggested, I just wanted to be sure what values you were using. Did you change all three files, or just the _RND?

[Subtype Zero]

I believe you need to change all three files, although this has never been totally confirmed.

[Subtype Zero]

Speaking of these files: does anyone have an unaltered GWX 1.03 version of these files? I have obviously changed mine and can't find the original values. I need the old values from GWX 1.03 for testing of our RealWeatherFix mod. Any help is really appreciated!

[Kaleu_Mihoo]

[Mission]
Title=GWXR1FULL
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=1
Year=1939
Month=1
Day=1
Hour=12
Minute=0
Fog=0
FogRand=2
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=2
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=5
WindRand=2
WeatherRndInterval=7
SeaType=0
Briefing=

my pleasure to help, I keep an aye on this thread and wish you and Stiebler all the best in your efforts as weather it is the major issue in SH3 for me.
greets

[Subtype Zero]

Thank you very much! I was surprised to see how different the GWX settings are from stock 1.4b and from my altered version.

[difool2]

I believe that the effects only take place once you start a new patrol, too. But comments by others who use SH Weather indicate that changes in mid patrol will take effect (as well as changes made via SHW when the game is running!). I didn't have any luck with mid-patrol changes.

[Stiebler]

The RealWeatherFix mod is now available. See this thread in the SH3 Mods Forum:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=765398&postcount=1

Stiebler.

[Yoriyn]

Can you tell me how often the weather will be changing after yours mod?

[Hanomag]

Excellent work Kaluen Stiebler!!! :up:

Hmm... I am ready to hit the exe and run the mod.... BUT b4 I do is it safe to do in mid patrol???

[Subtype Zero]

You can probably load it mid-patrol, but we cannot guarantee acceptable results. In any event, be sure you have fully exited the game and have rolled back SH3 Commander before installing RWF.

Also, some people are reporting problems using RWF with the GWX 16k atmosphere mod. We are not sure yet if these are installation problems or problems with changes made to scene.dat by the GWX 16k mod.

[Yoriyn]

Ok, but can you tell me how often the weather will be changing after yours mod?

[Subtype Zero]

On average, the weather changes approximately 32 hours after you leave port. Subsequent changes occur roughly 32 hours plus 1 hour after the last change in the weather. On occasion, the weather changes at periods other than this, but these appear to be rare anomolies. So, the longer your patrol, the longer it takes for the weather pattern to change. This is hard-coded and cannot be changed by RWF. :x

[Stiebler]

If you are using GWX2, do NOT use RealWeatherFix mod.

See this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=130147

Stiebler.

[vedrand]

I posted them on page 2: here they are again:

Fog=1
FogRand=1
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=2
Precip=1
PrecipRand=1
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=4.000000
WindRand=1
WeatherRndInterval=1
I played my first mission (GWX1.03) with these settings and I am fully satisfied. The weather changed for better that is for sure. There still seems to be a bias towards the wind strength 15. However in my case it was combined with overcast weather + fog only some 20% of the overall time. The weather changes are also more frequent then before.

The mission took place in the month of October in the Noth Atlantic. I wonder if the weather depends on the location you are at (like different weather in the South Atlantic or Med)?

[difool2]

Subtype Zero mentioned that WeatherRandInterval's effects on the actual interval between changes varies wildly.

Current values (with the mod discussed in the other thread):

Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=0
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=0
WindSpeed=4.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=1

In my case it originally seemed to give a change window between 14-20 hours, then it was 30-34 hours, and now it is definitely 70-74 hours for my last 2 patrols. Season may have an effect but honestly I still don't know WTH is up with some of these numbers, even after having read some of the explanations.

[Blacklight]

If you are using GWX2, do NOT use RealWeatherFix mod.

The problem is fixed. If you use GWX2 you can now use the mod. I use it and it does make a difference.

[Subtype Zero]

I recommend setting WeatherRndInterval equal to at least 2. The mission editor says this value can be set anywhere from 2 to 96, so a value of 1 may be causing some unforseen effects. Maybe this is why your weather is changing at wildly different intervals.

[predavolk]

Without radar, weather is such a crucial factor for uboat operations that I'm happy to see it get some serious attention. Thanks for your efforts guys! Is there a general consensus on what should be done to achieve more realistic weather with GWX 2? Install the Real Weather Mod? Modify the campaign files? Avoid time compression of 1024? Avoid saving and exiting frequently?

I've read this thread and a couple of others, but I thought I'd ask the experts to summarize their findings if possible. Thanks.

[difool2]

It may be a seasonal effect-last patrol was in Feb/March (42). I'll see what happens during the summer...

[Avatar]

Hello, this is my first post to this very interesting thread. I was wondering, is there a variable for the size of the weather pattern, large or small? I was thinking last night about this and decided to ask the question.
Also, does the guys from GWX know about your ongoing project?
Keep up the good work guys and thank you very much.:up:

[Subtype Zero]

Greetings, Avatar!

Yes, the guys at GWX are aware of our work and have kindly decided to include it with the release of GWX 2.1

The only setting that we are aware of that changes the size of the weather pattern are the campaign.mis files located in sh3/data/campaign/campaigns folder, where you can adjust the random fog, wind, clouds, and rain changes to none, medium, or heavy (0, 1, or 2, respectively). Unfortunately, these settings appear to be very crude and tend to override the settings in scene.dat, with mostly unfortunate results. Steibler recommends keeping these settings at 0. I'm a little more comfortable with changing these numbers around somewhat, but I don't recommend making too many major changes.