EU 'should expand beyond Europe' ...

[elite_hunter_sh3]

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has suggested the European Union should work towards including Russia, Middle Eastern and North African countries. BBC article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7095657.stm

Odd how people seem to lose track of simple vocabulary..... European Union. Europe is a land mass typically defined as the area west of the Ural Mountains, north of the Caucausus, and west of the Bosporus, is it not? These three boundaries generally seperate Europe from Asia. And for Africa, that is quite simple, you have a sea in between the two.

How can they attempt to bend a geographical concept to the point where it loses its base meaning? Absolutely ludicrous.

:damn::damn::damn:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2097


Former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovksy has warned that the European Union is on its way to becoming another Soviet Union. When people who have worked on higher levels in the EU system note similarities as well, it is time people start taking this idea seriously.

In 2002 Louis Michel, the then Belgian minister of foreign affairs and today a member of the European Commission, told the Belgian parliament that the EU will eventually encompass North Africa and the Middle East as well as Europe. The MEDA programme, the principal financial instrument for the implementation of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, between 2000-2006 spent €5,350 million on its various programs, according to the EU’s official website. During the period 1995-1999, some 86% of the resources allocated to MEDA were channelled to Algeria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey and the Palestinian Authority.

From 2007, MEDA will be replaced by the European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument, which over the period 2007 to 2013 is projected to spend €11 billion on, among other things, promoting cooperation between European and Arab countries in the sectors of energy and transport; in higher education and mobility of teachers, researchers and students; Multicultural dialogue through people-to-people contacts, including links with communities of immigrants living in EU countries as well as cooperation between civil societies, cultural institutions and exchanges of young people.[...]But we already are a playground for foreign powers, for Muslim nations in particular, who can dump their unsustainable population growth in our countries and harass the native population with near-impunity, and this is actively caused by the EU.[...]

:shifty::shifty::shifty:

[Happy Times]

Discussed allready here. Thanks for your concern.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=125219

[elite_hunter_sh3]

oops my apologies :oops:

[waste gate]

Since the other thread has become a debate concerning the forum software I'll post here.

This is the most disturbing aspect of the arcticle.

But his Conservative counterpart William Hague said Mr Miliband and his colleagues were "ramming that constitution through under a new name and refusing to give voters a say at an election or a referendum" - a reference to the EU Reform treaty.

The man wants to spread democracy without actually allowing it. Soft imperialism. A second thought is how does the man expect to pay for it. Germany's integration after the fall of the Soviet Union and the re-unification was hellish for Germany and most of Europe.

I question David Miliband's motivation. What is he up to?

[elite_hunter_sh3]

turning the EU into the modern Soviet Union style "democratic organization", EU should have never been created, ita brought bad things and bound to bring more.. :nope:

[STEED]

turning the EU into the modern Soviet Union style "democratic organization", EU should have never been created, ita brought bad things and bound to bring more.. :nope:

Created by you know who. ;)

[Happy Times]

turning the EU into the modern Soviet Union style "democratic organization", EU should have never been created, ita brought bad things and bound to bring more.. :nope:

Created by you know who. ;)

By France and Germany?

[Skybird]

turning the EU into the modern Soviet Union style "democratic organization", EU should have never been created, ita brought bad things and bound to bring more.. :nope:

Created by you know who. ;)

By France and Germany?
Originally, yes, it was the europe of the six nations (F, D, GB, I, E - who was the sixth? Belgium-Netherlands, I think) that way it was able to be run, you could plan for a goal, set a course, and make the community following that course. the bigger the EU became, the less it was like that. Also, Schmidt and Giscard d'Estaing wanted it to be an economical alliance in the first, plus mutual consulatation and finetuning of policies in the foreign policy field, according to de Gaulles motto of a "Europe of cooperating fatherlands". Nothing more was wanted and planned for. Both Schmidt and d'Estaing in recent years have expressed seripous concern and even disgust about the "pervertion" (Schmidt) the EU has turned nto sinc eth eearly to mid 90s. Too big, too much, too uncontrollable, too you-name-it. the EU is not the logical consequences of the earlier 6-member EU, and then the 15 (?) member EEC, but a very serious deviation from the earlier vision of what a cooperating europe should be like. The old ideas were relaistic, and did not try to move beyond what could be acchieved, realistically, the new ideas are surreal, at best, and foster a formation of maximum power in few and fewer hands which even are not democratically countercontrolled, are operating putside the legitimation of european public, and are not bound to governing terms, since the bureaucracy were the decisions get planned remains, even when giovernment and members in the EU parliament and memebers in the EU commission change.

It is the dictatorship of the bureaucrats, plain and simple, which is aiming at making the national constitutions and the sovereignity of states and governments obsolete, that way making the votings during national election in nations meaningless: of the laws and new rules the german Bundestag had passed during the first 5 years of the current decade, over 80% were demands by the EU that had not been checked and debated in the Bundestag, had not been planned by the government, and were not counterchecked for their compliance with German constitution - they just were waved through, mindless and spineless as well.

Spit.

[Swede]

...........................

Racial and ethnic slurs will not be permitted on SubSim.com

The Management

[Camaero]

..........

Bring beer!

[Fish]

Originally, yes, it was the europe of the six nations (F, D, GB, I, E - who was the sixth? Belgium-Netherlands, I think) that way it was able to be run, you could plan for a goal, set a course, and make the community following that course.

Started like this:

The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was founded by the Treaty of Paris (1951) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_%281951%29). Its members were France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France), West Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium), Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg) and the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) who pooled their steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel) and coal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal) resources and create a common market for those products.
It was the fulfillment of a plan developed by French economist Jean Monnet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet), publicised by the French foreign minister Robert Schuman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schuman). It was also strongly supported by the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States).

[joea]

..........

I thought you were in New Zealand.

[bigboywooly]

Originally, yes, it was the europe of the six nations (F, D, GB, I, E - who was the sixth? Belgium-Netherlands, I think) that way it was able to be run, you could plan for a goal, set a course, and make the community following that course.

Started like this:

The European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) was founded by the Treaty of Paris (1951) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_%281951%29). Its members were France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France), West Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium), Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg) and the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands) who pooled their steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel) and coal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal) resources and create a common market for those products.
It was the fulfillment of a plan developed by French economist Jean Monnet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Monnet), publicised by the French foreign minister Robert Schuman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Schuman). It was also strongly supported by the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States).

yeah Britain didnt join till later
1973 IIRC

[Skybird]

Well, I was not born at that time, so I am excused. :lol:

European Economic Community
The European Economic Community (EEC) was an organization established by the Treaty of Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Rome) (25 March 1957) between the ECSC countries: Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium), France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France), Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy), Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg), the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands), and West Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germany), known informally as the Common Market (the Six). The EEC was the most significant of the three treaty organizations that were consolidated in 1967 to form the European Community (EC; known since the ratification 1993 of the Maastricht treaty as the European Union, EU). The EEC's immediate aim was economic union of its member nations, with the eventual goal of political union. It worked for the free movement of goods, service, labor and capital, the abolition of trusts and cartels, and the development of joint and reciprocal policies on labor, social welfare, agriculture, transport, and foreign trade. See Customs Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Union).
In 1956, the United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) proposed that the Common Market be incorporated into a wide European free-trade area. After the proposal was vetoed by President Charles de Gaulle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_de_Gaulle) and France in November 1958, the UK together with Sweden engineered the formation (1960) of the European Free Trade Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association) (EFTA) and was joined by other European nations that did not belong to the Common Market (the Seven). Beginning in 1973, with British, Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland), and Danish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark) accession to the EEC, the EFTA and the EEC negotiated a series of agreements that would ensure uniformity between the two organisations in many areas of economic policy, and by 1995, all but four EFTA members had joined the European Union.
One of the first important accomplishments of the EEC was the establishment (1962) of common price levels for agricultural products. In 1968, internal tariffs (tariffs on trade between member nations) were removed on certain products.

Britain I should have known, but how the hell did Spain come to my mind...

[Swede]

..........

I thought you were in New Zealand.

I get around.

International man of racial slurs, thats what i am:|\\

[Happy Times]

..........

I thought you were in New Zealand.

I get around.

International man of racial slurs, thats what i am:|\\

There is a difference between being a nationalist and defending the right to your culture and being a nazi. I dont know how old you are and if there is hope for you.
I do feel that the current state of Western countries drives youth in the extreme political wiews. This is something that should be discussed but gets very little attention.

[Kipparikalle]

EU reminds me more and more of an Soviet Union, or an Third Reich.
I really don't like the way the EU is going, I wish that my country (Finland) would exit from this stupid alliance.

I don't like how they change our things here from some stupid meetings and parlaments.

I think things were better when we were not on any alliance, and stood neutral.

[mrbeast]

Guess who was a supporter of a Euopean Union.............Winston Churchill. The European Union has managed to end hundreds of years of European conflict so I guess its not all bad.

Plus in a world where we are surounded by economic and political giants whats better a motley crew of squabling countries or a union of nations?

Thats right.......individual countries!!!! Yes dam those Europeans with their higher standards of living, happier populations and low crime rates, working time directives, strait bananas etc etc! :doh: :ping: :hmm:

[Lurchi]

[...]Plus in a world where we are surounded by economic and political giants whats better a motley crew of squabling countries or a union of nations?
Exactly!
I would even go so far to say that the European Union -apart from all its weaknesses- is our only chance of survival. It forms our countries and its 500 million inhabitants into the mightiest ecomical power on this world in a way that cannot be ignored.

Personally i would like to see a common EU foreign policy and also a European Army one day - while retaining our national identities and languages, this is no contradiction in my eyes.

[Peto]

It's very simple really:

1. Get nations to join together for economic reasons (it comes down to cash).
2. Create Cooperatives with economic Super Powers for stability.
3. Create laws which transcend borders and cultures (for the good of everyone of course).
4. Subjugate any nation that does not belong to The Cooperative--they have no choice now if they want to survive.
5. and you have a world run by a single governing council administrated by Corporations.

All you have to do is seed enough fear among the population that they will accept anything you do in the belief that you are making them "safe".

I wonder how long it will be before the US joins the EU?

:hmm:

[mrbeast]

It's very simple really:

1. Get nations to join together for economic reasons (it comes down to cash).
2. Create Cooperatives with economic Super Powers for stability.
3. Create laws which transcend borders and cultures (for the good of everyone of course).
4. Subjugate any nation that does not belong to The Cooperative--they have no choice now if they want to survive.
5. and you have a world run by a single governing council administrated by Corporations.

All you have to do is seed enough fear among the population that they will accept anything you do in the belief that you are making them "safe".

I wonder how long it will be before the US joins the EU?

:hmm:

So are you against the EU or for it? :hmm: :roll:

[Peto]

I believe in what it originally was meant to be. I am very leery of what it is becoming in the same way that I am leery how 70% of Americans can't get our politicians to respond. That is not Democracy in action--yet the 30% say they are spreading "Democracy" to the world?

What should we do? I wish I had a good answer for that. There is a fine line in the middle, a place where all can benefit. The chances of that line being chosen by those in power are slim. When money no longer matters to an individual, the only thing left is to gain is power. As power is concentrated in a very small group, who stands to gain? Them or the people who work for them? I'm not comfortable being viewed as a "servant" to any government ot Corporation.

Working for a goal is one thing. Working for someone else's--especially when the goal is obscure--is something we should all question.

Just My Opinion!

Peto

[Onkel Neal]

..........

I thought you were in New Zealand.

I get around.

International man of racial slurs, thats what i am:|\\


Can I quote you on that?

[Swede]

..........

I thought you were in New Zealand.

I get around.

International man of racial slurs, thats what i am:|\\


Can I quote you on that?

Sure, as long as its not in a court of law