newb - does stock SH3 AI cheat?

[sasquatch]

I'm on my first career and am getting really frustrated with the AI. 33% of the time on my way back to port from patrols an enemy destroyer ends up directly in my path. There will be incredibly dense fog (1/2 mile visibility) and yet they repeatedly find my exact position. Any thoughts?

[Torplexed]

That might depend on what year your career is currently in. All British destroyers eventually got fitted with radar sets, so easily finding you in the fog or dark wouldn't be an issue for them. :yep:

[Brag]

The Escort AI in SH3 and GWX is pretty good. Most of the time ASW vessels will find you due to own mistakes. Once one learns the tricks of the trade, one becomes harder to find. This interplay, which requires skill is what makes the game so fascinating.

[Packerton]

Welcome to subsim Herr Kaluen sasquatch!!! :up: :arrgh!:

Are you new to Subims at all?

If you are you must always keep one thing in your mind,, your out there, alone and faceing the Navies of Several Countries at once (well in the middle stages of the war to the end at least) your baseicly the blue dot in a whole sea of red, and all that red is looking for you, whether it be Planes, Destroyer hunter kill groups or random independand sailors and convoys.


You must always take it slow, to the point of staying under the water for all the daylight hours late in the war because of Aircraft attacks, and to always remember that somewhere, at anytime, A Destroyer has you on Radar.


I recommend getting the GWX Super mod (currently version 1.3) once you learn the ropes in stock Silent hunter 3, GWX makes the world a much more liveing breathing wartime place in the game.

Not to mention AI upgrades that will allow you to increase in skill and cunning alot faster then the sleepy in comparison stock AI.

[sasquatch]

I'm brand new to subsim and SHIII. I'm still confused about the DD's because even in 1940 (pre-radar) destroyers were ending up directly on top of me, multiple days after the last time I attacked a merchant or made a radio report. I realise that ships can get lucky, but this is too lucky...

[Capa]

There are thousands of ships. You just don't have a very big line of sight, and even that's not infallible. Even if it's the same ship it's a lot easier for them to follow a boat on sonar than you might think. Considering the numbers of professional sailors that died in real life whilst being as careful as possible it's better to think less in game terms of "balance" and "fairness" and start fighting for survival knowing that the odds are against you and a DD knows how to hunt and kill a careless kaleun.

[Peto]

I can say with certainty (having rewritten the campaign to my own taste) that--even in the stock game--the AI does not cheat. All ships are generated either by scrpted or random generaton which is set when you put to sea. There is nothing in my bazillion hours of campaign writing that I have found that could generate an escort because it "knew I was there".

sasquatch: You can attribute it to bad luck (luck is a factor sometimes) or it "might" be that you're picking the short path home. The enemy knows those paths as they are obvious. Picking a longer route "may" get you home more safely. Unless you're unlucky ;).

Don't give up though! I've had some careers that seemed very unlucky and others where I never ran into any problems. It's kind of like rolling dice--eventually you'll quit rolling snake-eyes :up:.

Happy Hunting!

[sasquatch]

must just be bad luck then. I almost always take the long way home and go out of my away to avoid enemy infested waters. When out of eel's I'll intentionally avoid convoy and merchant routes. O well, I haven't been sunk yet... but it sure is scarry when your crew sights a DD 650m away in thick fog...

[Packerton]

Thats not always bad luck, you may just be running into the British Anti Submarine Patrol zones, as stated before dont take the short way home.

For example, the path south of Scapa flow is a virtual death zone for Submarines, as is the English Channel and the like.

Always go around the quick shortgun British controlled zones.

You will run into random destroyer patrols yes, but its not bad luck its just simulating how relentleslly the British patrolled around the Isles and the Channels.

They are OUT TO GET YOU. :arrgh!:

[Stealth Hunter]

PAINT YOUR SUB WITH THE ANTI-SONAR... PAINT.:stare:

[danlisa]

PAINT YOUR SUB WITH THE ANTI-SONAR... PAINT.:stare:

LOL, how is Anti-Sonar paint going to help when being detected by Radar?:D

Know what you mean though.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

PAINT YOUR SUB WITH THE ANTI-SONAR... PAINT.:stare:

LOL, how is Anti-Sonar paint going to help when being detected by Radar?:D

Know what you mean though.

OMG!!!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Brag]

A good example is leaving Lorient (still early in the war). If you go direct to Cape Finisterre, you will run into air patrols. Sail about 20-40 Kms. south before turning and you will avoid them. :lol:

[siber]

Don't forget, just because a destroyer turns up, its crew have not necessarily detected you. As mentioned above, they may simply be on a patrol course that has coincdentally intersected your route.

Especially at night or in dense fog, it's entirely possible to cruise by not 500m away, and they won't see you. Don't forget that submarines are mostly submerged, and have a smaller profile to spot than a warship, which is mostly out of the water and far bigger than you.

Often, unless they have radar, you'll spot them before they spot you. Therefore, if you dive and go silent, the destroyer will usually drive on past without even attacking. If so, you've successfully evaded the attack.

Note also that sound is often a better detection means than sight. if you're underwater, your hydrophone listens out to 34km from your position (although the operator seems deaf if a sound is beyond 20km). Take a dive every few hours to check your hydrophone to ensure there's nothing sailing towards you. But, be aware that within 2-3km, any destroyers will also hear the sound of your propellors in the water if you're moving faster than about 3kts while submerged.

Today's lesson: Frequently when it's dark or foggy, it can be better to use the hydrophone to check for nearby ships than using the lookouts. However, it also then makes you more easily detectable for the enemy.

Welcome to SHIII. Give 'em hell! :arrgh!:

[NiclDoe]

You guys are forgetting about Bernard. Bernard is in charge of everything that goes wrong.

[Einzelganger]

I'm running with GWX and i usually come across a lone DD on patrol somewhere in the middle of nowhere. So that in itself isn't to strange.

And sometimes well..... 2 nights ago while playing a single mission i was running on the surface in moderate fog when directly infront of me a DD appeared firing while clearing from the fog as if he'd known where i was all the time. And this was only late 1940 !

I barely managed to submerge before it got to me and took some damage from it's deckgun but as he passed overhead his DC's set at a very shallow depth managed to get me. I went down with heavy flooding while the DD was left with it's stern on fire and 1 screw less due to the close proximity of it's own DC.

This was a fast Wham, Bam, thank you Ma'am :dead: and certainly not the good kind. Not sure if that was realistic given the year but hey.....

[sasquatch]

What's the best way to avoid a DD if its 650m from you but hasn't spotted you yet? Thy Type IX takes FOREVER to dive... does crash diving make a ton of noise that DD's can pick up. So far I've been really lucky and have just dived normally without being spotted.

About the English Isles, I never go anwhere near them unless shadowing a convoy. Their airplanes always end up right on top of me... I've had a good number of close calls. One time, 4 Hurricanes (?) ended up right on top of me all dropping bombs. They missed by only 25 feet...

[Turm]

must just be bad luck then. I almost always take the long way home and go out of my away to avoid enemy infested waters. When out of eel's I'll intentionally avoid convoy and merchant routes. O well, I haven't been sunk yet... but it sure is scarry when your crew sights a DD 650m away in thick fog...

A couple of weeks back when playing stock 1.4b I ran into a destroyer in heavy fog and rain, a couple of hundred miles west of Scapa. Time compression dropped out to 1x and the crew shouted out a ship. I jumped to the bridge and was absolutely horrified to see a British destroyer ahead to port, that was travelling the exact opposite direction to me! By the time I ordered a crash dive we were passing right by each other, only 100m apart. :huh: I didn't disappear below until it was a little way behind me, but it simply didn't spot me! That was lucky :arrgh!:

So all is not necessarily lost when a DD turns up unannounced. I've installed GWX now, and have a feeling I won't escape quite as easily if it happens again.