Fuel blockades coming back?

[STEED]

£1 litre drives protesters back to the fuel blockades (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=493083&in_page_id=1770)

Sorry no, this will be put down fast by the Government as they will use the Anti Terrorist Laws against them, on the few occasions on the radio where the subject came up about fuel protests many fear these laws will be used against them. The whole thing will come to nothing or a washout protest they had there chance at the first one some years ago.

[seafarer]

What do they plan to do in 5 years time, or 10 or 20 years time. By then who knows, it may be £100 per litre. The raw fact is that oil reserves are finite, we are consuming oil at a rate far in excess of the rate of discover/productixon of new reserves, so the price is just going to coninue to rise. It will no doubt go through fluctuations related to short term effects, but the steady increase in price is inevitable as the resources decline and the cost of sucking out the last reserves goes up.

Not seeming to sound all gloom and doom, but petroleum energy is going to cost more, and ever more, as time marchs on (actually, it always has, when you think about it - long term, oil has never gotten cheaper) - deal with it. There is no magical sudden "fix" to the problem, so crying and protesting about it are kind of juvenile.

Canada has the worlds second largest proven petroleum reserves in thw world (most in the tar sands), but they are also amongst the most expensive to extract. The only reason the tar sands are booming these days is because the price of oil finally went up enough to make it worth the expense.

[STEED]

Canada has the worlds second largest proven petroleum reserves in thw world (most in the tar sands), but they are also amongst the most expensive to extract. The only reason the tar sands are booming these days is because the price of oil finally went up enough to make it worth the expense.


WOW :o

I was just reading about what you posted today in a book. It said the cost of getting this oil out would spell doom to the green lobby and the long term situation the cost of getting the oil out of the ground will out strip the what is pumped out.

[seafarer]

The whole issue of how much energy it takes to exploit energy reserves just seems to be really overlooked. The tar sands are just an example of that - the oil consumption frenzy of the world these days makes it lucrative for now is all.

For the US right now, most Hydrogen produced commercially is extracted from natural gas, and takes more energy then one gets back out of the acquired hydrogen. So you're using up gas reserves, as well as electricity (largely from coal) to get a net negative energy return, just in a form that you want. Even if you extract the hydrogen from seawater, it takes more energy to extract then you get back.

Iceland's hopes for a hydrogen economy make sense for them, since they have geothermal power to extract the hydrogen.

For all those praising the future of a hydrogen based economy, where is all that energy to produce hydrogen going to come from? We're pretty much tapped out on hydroelectric, so that leaves coal and nuclear. Wind energy will never make a huge contribution because noone seems to be willing to allow the turbines in their line of sight :damn: (eg. read all about the complaints against the Nantucket Sound offshore wind farm). Solar power is also an eye sore to many, at least on a scale sufficient to make any real contribution to a national-scale grid.

As for oil, I don't like paying $3.00 per US gallon. And I do think the oil companies play short term shill games (ie. the price of a barrel of oil goes up on the world market today, and the price at the pumps goes up tomorrow? Even though they gas their pumping was purchased at a lower price days to weeks ago). This despite continued quarterly record profits for years now.

But, I also don't expect to be paying less in the future - that just is not going to happen. And the sad thing is, we've been watching this coming our whole lives, yet people are surprised :huh:

[Captain Nemo]

Not seeming to sound all gloom and doom, but petroleum energy is going to cost more, and ever more, as time marchs on (actually, it always has, when you think about it - long term, oil has never gotten cheaper) - deal with it. There is no magical sudden "fix" to the problem, so crying and protesting about it are kind of juvenile.

Generally I agree with your long term view. However, it must be remembered that in the UK for every £1 we spend on petrol 75% is tax. That is what the protests are really about.

Nemo

[seafarer]

Does that tax (or at least hopefully most of it) actually find it's way into maintaining the roadways, bridges and such?

One of the things I dislike about the US is the extensive use of toll roads to supposedly cover infrastructure costs. The result ends up being that the toll roads usually are in very good repair (many or operated by private firms, like the NJ Turnpike), while the rest of the interstate system and state highways are often in a horrible state (eg. Interstate 380 through the Pocono's in Pennsylvania).

My native country, Canada, typically has very few toll roads, and also relies, in theory, heavily on fuel taxes to generate the money to maintain roads. That isn't a total success in Canada, but then some of Canada's roads are very expensive to maintain (eg. highway 11 in Ontario). Some recent toll road experiments though, have also not been a success - Highway 407 in Ontario, when it opened, had very low use, since drivers opted for toll-free routes, despite the congestion on them (and given they'd already been taxed heavily at the pump for the fuel they used to drive the 407).

At least with fuel taxes, the users of the resource are paying for it - assuming the money actually goes where it's supposed to.

[STEED]

Does that tax (or at least hopefully most of it) actually find it's way into maintaining the roadways, bridges and such?


:rotfl: :rotfl:

Hang on your serious!!! :huh:

Judging the pot holes around here and poor roads and not a dicky bird been done I would say no.

[Captain Nemo]

Does that tax (or at least hopefully most of it) actually find it's way into maintaining the roadways, bridges and such?

No, the Government of the UK doesn't give assurances of this. In addition to petrol tax we also pay between £115 - £300 per annum per car in vehicle licence duty based on engine size or CO2 emissions. The Government tends to hide behind the green argument for the reason for these taxes and not investment in roads etc. Road tolls and bridge tolls are likely to become more common in the UK as well.

Nemo

[Konovalov]

£1 litre drives protesters back to the fuel blockades (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=493083&in_page_id=1770)

Sorry no, this will be put down fast by the Government as they will use the Anti Terrorist Laws against them, on the few occasions on the radio where the subject came up about fuel protests many fear these laws will be used against them. The whole thing will come to nothing or a washout protest they had there chance at the first one some years ago.

Don't forget but those of us who drive a diesel are paying another 5-6 pence more than the £1 per litre petrol prices. Thank goodness I drive a company car and don't pay for it. Well at least not directly. :-?

[SteminDemon13]

These gas prices are rediculous. I can't wait till I start heating my home with anthracite coal. No more high heating bills.