At Least Seven Dead in School Shooting

[Happy Times]

At least seven people have been killed in a school shooting in Tuusula, southern Finland. Several more have been injured, one seriously.

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id74371.html

:nope:

No words for this yet.

[FIREWALL]

What a horrible thing to happen at a school or anywhere for that matter.

But a school is supposed to be a safe haven. :yep:

[Happy Times]

The guy has been allover internet yesterday. Youtube took of his videos but here is a little sample of the guy.

:roll:

Sturmgeist89
Style: Variety
Joined: October 19, 2007
Last Login: 4 hours ago
Videos Watched: 188
Subscribers: 81
Channel Views: 40,811
aka NaturalSelector89 (3/15/2007 - 10/19/2007).

YouTube suspended my previous account but I am back now :) My new account name is German and means "Stormspirit" in English.

http://rapidshare.com/files/68 015773/Pekka-Eric_Auvinen___Jo kela_High_School_Massacre.zip
Name: Pekka-Eric Auvinen
Age: 18
Male from Finland.

I am a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial socialdarwinist, realistic idealist and godlike atheist.

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM! JUSTITIA SUUM CUIQUE DISTRIBUIT! SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS!

I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.

You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am"insane", "crazy", "psychopath", "criminal" or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.

I have had enough. I don't want to be part of this ****ed up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.

Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can't alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.

I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don't blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don't blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don't blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!

Justice renders to everyone his due."

ATTACK INFORMATION

Event: Jokela High School Massacre.
Targets: Jokelan Lukio (High School Of Jokela), students and faculty, society, humanity, human race.
Date: 11/7/2007.
Attack Type: Mass murder, political terrorism (altough I choosed the school as target, my motives for the attack are political and much much deeper and therefore I don’t want this to be called only as “school shooting”).
Location: Jokela, Tuusula, Finland.
Perpetrator’s name: Pekka-Eric Auvinen (aka NaturalSelector89, Natural Selector, Sturmgeist89 and Sturmgeist). I also use pseydonym Eric von Auffoin internationally.
Weapons: Semi-automatic .22 Sig Sauer Mosquito pistol.


What do I hate / What I don’t like?
Equality, tolerance, human rights, political correctness, hypocrisy, ignorance, enslaving religions and ideologies, antidepressants, TV soap operas & drama shows, rap -music, mass media, censorship, political populists, religious fanatics, moral majority, totalitarianism, consumerism, democracy, pacifism, state mafia, alcholohics, TV commercials, human race.
What do I love / what do I like?
Existentialism, self-awareness, freedom, justice, truth, moral & political philosophy, personal & social psychology, evolution science, political incorrectness, guns, shooting, BDSM, computers, internet, aggressive electronic and industrial rock & metal music, violent movies, , FPS –computer games, sarcasm, irony, black humour, macabre artm mass & serial killer cases, natural disasters, eugenics

[kranz]

poor guy.polish tv said(after BBC probably)that he was a big fan of Stalin and Hitler but after reading his story I'm a bit confussed...

[Happy Times]

He shot himself, good selection.

[FIREWALL]

He shot himself, good selection.


BINGO :up:

[kranz]

IMO he probably wanted someone to listen what he is saying, thinking etc.As far as I know those who want to commit suicide leave a letter(it this case a video)because they want someone to prevent them from dying.He was a kind of "freak"(I should have said this)but I don't agree with "Firewall" and "Happy Times" opinion.It's never good when someone dies.

[FIREWALL]

IMO he probably wanted someone to listen what he is saying, thinking etc.As far as I know those who want to commit suicide leave a letter(it this case a video)because they want someone to prevent them from dying.He was a kind of "freak"(I should have said this)but I don't agree with "Firewall" and "Happy Times" opinion.It's never good when someone dies.

Especialy when they take 7 innocent people with them.

[kranz]

what he did had nothing to do with this what he had written:
"freedom, justice, truth, moral & political philosophy". I don't want to judge him but he confussed all this ideas and did what he did(dunno if this is English-correct)

[Happy Times]

One of them was the headmaster, she saved a lot of students and got herself killed.
Im 100% sure he got rejected by some girl and because he was a sensitive little pussy edit. 8 others had to die. The guy is still alive but doctors say he wont make it.

[kranz]

maybe he got rejected but "sensitive" ? I would say:he had (some kind of course)big balls-7 kills and himself.That's a thick skin.

[Torpedo Fodder]

He shot himself, good selection.
Students who are inclined and determined to shoot up their own school are usually suicidal and fully intend to kill themselves at the end of their rampage. That happened at Columbine, Virginia Tech, Ecole Polytecnique de Montreal, and Dawson College, to name a few. In fact, school shootings where the killer doesn't attempt to take their own life are probably the minority. THough in this case, it seems the killer survived his atempt. They better lock him away for life and throw away the keys.

[Happy Times]

Freak.


http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/7674/naturalselector8cc5.png

[kranz]

when it comes to what he did:freak
when it comes to problems he had(which does not excuse him):he had to much on the plate but someone should consider some way to cope with that kind of people-he was seeking for help but didn't get it.
"The guy has been allover internet yesterday. Youtube took of his videos but here is a little sample of the guy."(by Happy Times)-yeah-he was an attraction until he made a few "frags".

[Chock]

'A cynical exitentialist, anti-human humanist and god-like athiest'? 'Don't call me insane'?

Erm yup, cos that makes sense. More likely a sad CS-playing nutter with too many birds on his antenna, that got 'pwned' one time too many, and flipped out because he was no longer the 'roxxor' or whatever it is these idiots say.

Were it not for the fact that others died, you'd have to say that him shuffling off his mortal coil is an example of natural selection at its finest. I'm very sad for the families and friends of the victims, but I wouldn't waste a microsecond mourning that guy's passing.

RIP for the victims.

:D Chock

[Happy Times]

I just checked his parents websites. Father seems to be a weird part time blues musician but seems harmless. The mother is a crackpot. You can see where he got those ideas from. In America i think she might get sued, or am i wrong? She is a green party fanatic and a follower of Pentti Linkola.

Here is an english wikipedia entry about Linkola, totally insane individual.

"Lately he has provoked controversy by explicitely admiring Nazi-Germany as well as expressing support for the Baader-Meinhof Group. Over the years, he has often been accused of being an "eco-fascist"."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentti_Linkola

Linkolas fansite

http://www.penttilinkola.com/pentti_linkola/ecofascism/

[kranz]

cool idea :up: :smug: :rotfl:
but the guy isn't cool

[Happy Times]

cool idea :up: :smug: :rotfl:
but the guy isn't cool

What is? :roll:

[TteFAboB]

Very nice info Happy Times, please keep us informed in case anything else comes up.

[Happy Times]

Very nice info Happy Times, please keep us informed in case anything else comes up.

Thanks, will do:up:

I allready sent the info on his crazy mother to Finnish media. I dont trust them to do their job. They have allready started marching in psychologists that say that we have too many guns and blame computer games. :damn:

[kranz]

there is a politician in Poland who says sth like this:the more guns people have the better, which is to be meant as safer.His attitude to this case is similar to that in USA.I don't agree with him but this is off-topic.BUT-some games may have influence on your behaviour-believe me-I'm also a battle.net warcraft 3 player and being pwned isn't nice.Maybe he was pwned too many times....

[CptSimFreak]

If only he had a GF...

[XabbaRus]

Sad individual. I don't think girl rejection would be it. Hell I got rejected loads of times.

From reading the wiki link to that eco fascist guy who his mother likes no wonder.

[Skybird]

Just guessing of mine.

What he wrote sounds very much like an unsure juvenile whose mind struggles with puberty and thus is picking up more ideas from most different directions than he currently can digest, lacking life experience to sort them. So far, so usual - all of us went through that phase. Enthusiasm and idealism meets confusion and and lacking understanding. And this wild mixture of unripe ideas and terms is put into a pressure kettle and put onto a fire: the context of his family, especially his mother, heating it all up - until the kettle blew up.

Could have been like this, but must not have been like this. Life stinks if your parents do not support you and help you to find out yourself which is the better path to choose for at that crossroad, or mess up their parental responsibilities altogether.

Tragic event. Hate-filled calls for revenge, wishing most brutal doom and penalty upon him, are not needed, and must not be wanted. Justice, reason, caring for the survivors and those who lost loved ones, and protecting the community, is good enough.

[waste gate]

Reading this brought to mind;

What do I hate / What I don’t like?
Equality, tolerance, human rights, political correctness, hypocrisy, ignorance, enslaving religions and ideologies, antidepressants, TV soap operas & drama shows, rap -music, mass media, censorship, political populists, religious fanatics, moral majority, totalitarianism, consumerism, democracy, pacifism, state mafia, alcholohics, TV commercials, human race.

What do I love / what do I like?
Existentialism, self-awareness, freedom, justice, truth, moral & political philosophy, personal & social psychology, evolution science, political incorrectness, guns, shooting, BDSM, computers, internet, aggressive electronic and industrial rock & metal music, violent movies, , FPS –computer games, sarcasm, irony, black humour, macabre artm mass & serial killer cases, natural disasters, eugenics

the contradictions I often hear from some on this board. I'm not saying we have any potential murders here. But we do have too much permissiveness which will now try to either attempt to understand it or justify it.

Take the opportunity away by allowing schools to be as secure as government institutions. It is no less important, is it?

[Tchocky]

the contradictions I often hear from some on this board. I'm not saying we have any potential murders here. But we do have too much permissiveness which will now try to either attempt to understand it or justify it.
What's wrong with understanding why someone would do something like this?

[waste gate]

the contradictions I often hear from some on this board. I'm not saying we have any potential murders here. But we do have too much permissiveness which will now try to either attempt to understand it or justify it.
What's wrong with understanding why someone would do something like this?

Because I don't think it serves any purpose. It doesn't stop the next crazy from doing it. More resources should be placed on preventing future episodes. By that I mean letting it be known that the easy opportunity of shooting up a school full of easy victims doesn't exist.

[Biggles]

This bastard doesn't have any excuses if you ask me. I'm sad that he's dead, 'cause he deserves a life in a cold cell before going six feet under. I'm truly sorry over this event, and my thoughts with the families of the dead, and, indeed, the finnish people as whole.

[Iceman]

Just guessing of mine.

What he wrote sounds very much like an unsure juvenile whose mind struggles with puberty and thus is picking up more ideas from most different directions than he currently can digest, lacking life experience to sort them. So far, so usual - all of us went through that phase. Enthusiasm and idealism meets confusion and and lacking understanding. And this wild mixture of unripe ideas and terms is put into a pressure kettle and put onto a fire: the context of his family, especially his mother, heating it all up - until the kettle blew up.

Could have been like this, but must not have been like this. Life stinks if your parents do not support you and help you to find out yourself which is the better path to choose for at that crossroad, or mess up their parental responsibilities altogether.

Tragic event. Hate-filled calls for revenge, wishing most brutal doom and penalty upon him, are not needed, and must not be wanted. Justice, reason, caring for the survivors and those who lost loved ones, and protecting the community, is good enough.

I agree here Skybird...very tragic...very sorry Happy Times for this happening in your country.

[Skybird]

Justice is one thing. Revenge is another. And many tough speaking law-and-order-guys seek revenge - for their own satisfaction only, not because of any conception of "justice"

I said:

- Justice,
- reason,
- caring for the survivors and those who lost loved ones,
- and protecting the community

Has anyone any problems with these four points? :hmm:

[CptSimFreak]

Sad individual. I don't think girl rejection would be it. Hell I got rejected loads of times.

From reading the wiki link to that eco fascist guy who his mother likes no wonder.

when you're getting some, world is always a better place ;)

[baggygreen]

He seems, like sky and others have said, to contradict himself often.

Happytimes said before that the media is jumping on the 'violent computer games' theory, i doubt he ever played a game! from what i read into it, he would've hated supprting the capitalist moneymakers that release the games....

The real source if this idiot is his mother. Can she be charged with manslaughter, or maybe involuntary manslaughter for bringing her kid up so messed up? I doubt it, but sometimes i think it wouldnt be a bad thing... maybe she can be charged instead for supporting nazism?> isnt that a crime in europe or something??

[Happy Times]

He seems, like sky and others have said, to contradict himself often.

Happytimes said before that the media is jumping on the 'violent computer games' theory, i doubt he ever played a game! from what i read into it, he would've hated supprting the capitalist moneymakers that release the games....

The real source if this idiot is his mother. Can she be charged with manslaughter, or maybe involuntary manslaughter for bringing her kid up so messed up? I doubt it, but sometimes i think it wouldnt be a bad thing... maybe she can be charged instead for supporting nazism?> isnt that a crime in europe or something??

He did play a lot but i dont believe anyone comes crazy by playing.
I am so irritated that the media spins this against games, movies and guns.:damn:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7084045.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.html

[porphy]

Very tragic event.

I am so irritated that the media spins this against games, movies and guns.:damn:

They always do that, it is easy and connects to something that shows violent behaviour. But the Nazis didn't have computer games, did they? Go figure what is more likely to twist a persons mind in this way.

[Happy Times]

And now we know the girl that dumbed him and got engaged to another.
She is from Denmark and is also a "philosofer". :doh:

http://www.youtube.com/user/tanascheel

There you can follow the comments.:roll:
These young people are facked up. They seem to be over the Western world..

tanascheel | November 07, 2007
ALL OF YOU WILL BE BLOCKED AND DELETED

Im evil? No, I never killed anyone I never asked him to kill anyone I never told his weak ass to kill anyone or forced him too. A lot of people get rejected without resorting to murder. He did what he did because of who he was.

You people commenting here and on his profile are doing it for your own 2 minutes of fame and dont know **** about the facts so **** OFF losers.

Guldfisk21 | November 07, 2007
Seriously it's a good thing you dumped his ass, he failed to even come close to Cho's highscore, what a loser.

SpecialAttackTeam | November 07, 2007
HE KILLED THOSE FAGGOT STUDENTS BY HIS OWN CHOICE, TANA WAS RIGHT, HE WAS WEAK AND WORTHLESS.

**** YOU ALL

**** THE FAGGOT STUDENTS

And if you got something to say, say to ME, not Tana....I bullied him WAY MORE than she did.

Finish people can eat **** and die, that punk shot them on his own choice!!

AryanKrieg | November 07, 2007
If anyone pushed that scrawny fagot to do what he did it was me. I called him on all of his bull****. His fake claims and nonsense.

[DeepSix]

Good grief. As abhorrent as suicide is, if he'd really wanted to be a "natural selector" he'd have selected himself to start with. Naturally.

[joea]

cool idea :up: :smug: :rotfl:
but the guy isn't cool

Please leave thank you.

[Happy Times]

Seems the new boyfriend is from US and has provoked him in to doing this. They all laugh about it, i have read this mysef. My question is, can he get something for it?
IMO he should.

[Skybird]

Seems the new boyfriend is from US and has provoked him in to doing this. They all laugh about it, i have read this mysef. My question is, can he get something for it?
IMO he should.

when is intention a "real intention"? Should we hold people responsible for "intention" not yet formed into deeds? Or is influencing somebody's mind by using words already a deed?

That is interesting to compare to the following case, fresh from The Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2207426,00.html

that boyfriend from the US has done nothing bad in deeds, "only" voiced bad thoughts, and it is up to us to make speculations if he was serious, if he really planned for it and would have done it, etc. But he voiced encouragement of such deeds.

in case of the "lyrical terrorist", she also has not done anything bad in deeds, but expressed doing so in her thoughts, plus she collected a stockpoile of manuals and scriptures that are not so harmless anymore.

In Germany we currently have a debate on wether the participation in terror training camps should be under penalty, or if we need to wait until such a training gets used in practice for commiting a bombing plot. Many people say that letting yourself getting trained as a terrorist is not a crime. I have a problem with that view.

So:

In case of the lyrical terrorist, I agree with the court's sentence.

In case of letting yourself trained as a terrorist, I think this illustrates not just curiosity, and does not compare to getting a license for sports shooting, but illustrates a hostile intention. Thus it should be under penalty - and not smaller penalty than actually having participated in the planning of a terror attack. Because that is what it actually is.

In case of the boyfriend from the US - we need more info on him. Has he been a boisterous, cocky teenager in the midst of puberty (hell, on class vacation at the age of 16 I tried to set a wooden bridge on flames with 12 scrolls of toilet paper - even the scrolls themselves did not burn, but only produced some gloom...), or has he been bitterly determined to bring misery upon people?

In principle, I would say that people beyond a certain age (that should be seen as a phase, not as a fixed point in time, since we all develope our personalities at individual speeds) are responsible for their intentions as well, and should be held accountable for their intentions, if these intentions are no boisterous exaggerations, but were meant for real. But often that is a very close call to make, a difficult decision: when is an intention meant for real, when it is not? Maybe that is why the law is relatively shy on them, but I see a weakness in our legal codes here. the girl calling hersel a lyrical terrorist actually gave me the impression that she was meaning what she was writing and collecting, thus I hold her responsible for it. If you travel to the other side of the globe and let yourself being trained as a bombslinger and assassin in Pakistan, you do not book an adventure holiday only, but must be assumed to mean the real deal, that's why you should be held responsible for it.

But I am not certain what to think of this boyfriend from the US. Too little info. Let's wait a while.

[Spoon 11th]

Some may find this distasteful, but I laughed:

http://www.lihavakissa.net/finnchan.tmp/b/files/1194487216/1/sturmgeist.swf

[Happy Times]

Ive read so much that i think its clear he was in love with the Danish girl. And her leaving him and ridiculing in public with her new fiance drove him over.
The girl is 22 and the American guy is 23, he is a hardcore neonazi btw, not teens anymore.
I also found the killer praising Linkola on a Finnish forum, so his mother can think about that.

Only in Finnish, sorry.

http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=110&conference=4500000000000333&posting=22000000024718235#22000000024718235

[Tchocky]

the contradictions I often hear from some on this board. I'm not saying we have any potential murders here. But we do have too much permissiveness which will now try to either attempt to understand it or justify it. What's wrong with understanding why someone would do something like this? Because I don't think it serves any purpose. It doesn't stop the next crazy from doing it. More resources should be placed on preventing future episodes. By that I mean letting it be known that the easy opportunity of shooting up a school full of easy victims doesn't exist. I can't see such measures affecting the mentally ill. Someone who believes that shooting up his/her school isn't going to be reasoned with, at least not in a deterrence situation.
Whereas, if we could actually get down to the root causes of this kind of behaviour (in this case it seems to be a very unhealthy home environment), observe the indicators, we could take more effective measures against them.
I say "against them", if a teenager believes that he/she has to shoot up a school, serious psychiatric care is required.
Investigating causes/disorders could in fact, stop the next one. Personally, I don't believe we'll ever be without these events. I'd be worried about total preventative measures creating more problems than they would solve.

Anything's better than vilification of something just because we don't understand it.

[STEED]

Another scumbag that took innocent lives for there warped belief. :nope:

[waste gate]

the contradictions I often hear from some on this board. I'm not saying we have any potential murders here. But we do have too much permissiveness which will now try to either attempt to understand it or justify it. What's wrong with understanding why someone would do something like this? Because I don't think it serves any purpose. It doesn't stop the next crazy from doing it. More resources should be placed on preventing future episodes. By that I mean letting it be known that the easy opportunity of shooting up a school full of easy victims doesn't exist. I can't see such measures affecting the mentally ill. Someone who believes that shooting up his/her school isn't going to be reasoned with, at least not in a deterrence situation.
Whereas, if we could actually get down to the root causes of this kind of behaviour (in this case it seems to be a very unhealthy home environment), observe the indicators, we could take more effective measures against them.
I say "against them", if a teenager believes that he/she has to shoot up a school, serious psychiatric care is required.
Investigating causes/disorders could in fact, stop the next one. Personally, I don't believe we'll ever be without these events. I'd be worried about total preventative measures creating more problems than they would solve.

Anything's better than vilification of something just because we don't understand it.

Whereas, if we could actually get down to the root causes of this kind of behaviour (in this case it seems to be a very unhealthy home environment), observe the indicators, we could take more effective measures against them.

That opens a whole other can of worms with regard to personal freedoms(civil liberty). Who makes the decision as to state of mind. I for one wouldn't want that responsibility.

Investigating causes/disorders could in fact, stop the next one.

This isn't a recent phenomenon. This type of thing has been going on for quite some time. Trying to understand why it happens hasn't yielded an end to it. Time to try someting different and let it be known that this type of behavior will be met with deadly physical force.


Personally, I don't believe we'll ever be without these events. I'd be worried about total preventative measures creating more problems than they would solve.


I agree with you on this Tchocky. That it why it would be wise to allow people the ability to defend themselves ISO making them lawful victims.

wg

[Happy Times]

They really are networked, his friend Dillon Cossey was arrested last month in Philadelphia for planning an attack to his school. :roll:

http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/mcs/Dillon%20Cossey/www.belch.com/mutant/MySpace_com%20-%20Dillon%20-%2017%20-%20Male%20-%20PLYMOUTH%20MEETING,%20Pennsylvania%20-%20www_myspace_com-Dillonthekiller4.htm

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20071013_Gun_charge_for_mother.html

[Skybird]

They really are networked, his friend Dillon Cossey was arrested last month in Philadelphia for planning an attack to his school. :roll:

http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/mcs/Dillon%20Cossey/www.belch.com/mutant/MySpace_com%20-%20Dillon%20-%2017%20-%20Male%20-%20PLYMOUTH%20MEETING,%20Pennsylvania%20-%20www_myspace_com-Dillonthekiller4.htm

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20071013_Gun_charge_for_mother.html
That answers my question if his intentions were realistic and serious, or just a derailing exaggeration. Therefore I conclude that he should be held accountable for his share of responsibility in the Finland event.

[Chock]

They really are networked, his friend Dillon Cossey was arrested last month in Philadelphia for planning an attack to his school. :roll:

Just looked on that link, and oh dear, what a moron, check this out from his site:

'Im Leader of the .I.C.A. Military group, I love to blow **** up, and Im a bit of a merc'

I think that translates as: I've never actually been in a war, and would pee myself if I ever really was, but I'm hugely impressed with the notion of it from preposterous action films, and I like the idea of being a mercenary, because I think it would be like the A-Team as opposed to the reality of hanging around in Mogadishu with all the other meatheads hoping that it'll be like the Wild Geese, which it won't.

And the guy's favourite film? Red Dawn - which just about says it all, the guy can't even pick a decent action movie, what an idiot, and he's their leader. Punctuation doesn't appear to be a strong point with him either.

:D Chock

[P_Funk]

That opens a whole other can of worms with regard to personal freedoms(civil liberty). Who makes the decision as to state of mind. I for one wouldn't want that responsibility. What about all those would be terrorists in GITMO? What about charging someone with attempted murder? What about dealing with someone that utters threats? You can't be serious WG that we can't analyse behavior to determine a likely avenue of outcome. You would be disagreeing with some of your own positions I think to make such a broad statement. Criminal psychology is a huge part of police work.

Investigating causes/disorders could in fact, stop the next one.
This isn't a recent phenomenon. This type of thing has been going on for quite some time. Trying to understand why it happens hasn't yielded an end to it. Time to try someting different and let it be known that this type of behavior will be met with deadly physical force. You assume that nothing has changed as a result of this. So apparently everything is a failure unless we see a 100% decrease in crime? Reactive solutions are the norm and in fact the kind of preventative measures of trying to find the root are always the ones that get less heed. So if anything with all of these events we need to look towards preventative measures more than reactive ones. You can't have a gun protecting everyone all the time. If you can get the kid before he gets turned into a psycho-nazi then maybe he wont shoot 8 people.

If there are a number of kids running around shooting people it isn't cause they're just crazy. If he's young and has crazy beliefs that are violent, something that isn't a natural cultural or familial trait, then we can see that there is some influence on them. The Hitler Youth made many a good boy into a blood thirsty zealot. I don't see how you can go on about civil liberties if many of these kids are this way as a result of being mistreated in someway when they had no ability to protect their own interests. No free market economy or concealed fire-arms law is gonna help a kid being ingrained with hateful ideologies or being abused in some way by his parents.

I see contradictions in more than just the shooter's words.

[Happy Times]

Boys 'planned Stockholm school shooting'

Two teenage boys have been arrested in Stockholm on suspicion of conspiring to kill the headteacher of a school in the city, in an attack allegedly inspired by Wednesday's shooting in Jokela, Finland.

http://www.thelocal.se/9055/20071109/