USS COD gato class destroys dutch submarine

[momo55]

A realy strange event ...this is hard for a crew i can imagine.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=yF0OVO1QXJ0

[seafarer]

Some still pics of O-19 and O-20 (http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/pictures/pictures_o19_o20_construction_1930s.htm)

Amazing that the video says she is still on the reef - you'd think surely a storm would have dislodged her by now. I see that you can SCUBA dive on one of her tanker maru victems off Thailand though!

[SteamWake]

Couple of things struck me as strange in that vid.

1.) The interviewee mentioned "Those guys had been on that boat for 5 years" :o

2.) The guy kicking the brass overboard when they were using the deck gun. I guess they just dumped the casings wherever they could.

3.) When they launched the torpedo at the stricken vessel it seemed like it was only a few seconds of run time. I supposed that was video edited for effect.

Anyhow some really good footage. Maybe the rate of fire debate folks can take a few cues off the deck gun sequence.

[seafarer]

O-19 arrived in the Dutch East Indies in 1939 - I think that's what he meant. Surely not the original crew for that whole time? Some must have been rotated out to other duty?

[SteamWake]

"That was the saddest thing youve ever seen......" [edit] "They had been abord that thing for 5 years. Hadent even been home for 4 or 5 years."

[seafarer]

I know, I've seen the video before, but I never took that comment to literally mean that every single man onboard O-19 had been onboard O-19 since they'd left Europe in 1939.

She went through 5 commanding officers during that time, so why other crew wouldn't change either is beyond me. The commander at the time had only assumed command the previous December. She'd even been back to European waters in 1944. Of course none of the men had seem home - Holland was occupied by the Germans. But it's not like the crew had not changed, nor that the crew had even been in the east Indies the whole time. And they'd certainly not spent 5 whole years never stepping off the boat.

[SteamWake]

Holland was occupied by the Germans.

Doh !... Is there a forest around here.. too many trees.

[Angus89]

That boat looked a lot like the german u-boats. Did the dutch build their own or buy from germany? Imagine bein allies and having to hide from the Amercans lest you be mistaken for a german. Lends a new aspect to sh4 in my opinion would love to try that out in game.

[seafarer]

They built these boats in Rotterdam. They were also the first navy to have submarine's with snorkles, although it sounds like once war came along, most commanders had the snorts removed as there were still, err, kinks in the concept to be worked out :lol: I get the impression that those early snorts were highly regarded in concept, but deeply hated in actual practice.

[SteamWake]

They built these boats in Rotterdam. They were also the first navy to have submarine's with snorkles, although it sounds like once war came along, most commanders had the snorts removed as there were still, err, kinks in the concept to be worked out :lol: I get the impression that those early snorts were highly regarded in concept, but deeply hated in actual practice.

If I remember correctly they had a tendency to inhale salt water spray.

Not a healthy thing for an internal combustion engine.

Back on topic. Its interesting to note that the skipper was fairly new to the boat. One can only imagine they must have been moving along at a pretty good clip in shallow waters to drive the boat up on the shoal like that. Not really a good idea to go zipping around in those conditions. A 'rookie' mistake ?

Maybe he used too high a time compression :p or he forgot to hit return to course after loading a saved game... :hmm:

[seafarer]

One of the accounts of a crew member said they were doing 18 knots when they grounded :o Also, that most subs would have pulled free, but that O-19's open mine laying ports were snagging on parts of the reef. Bad luck all around it sounds.

Must have made for a heck of a trip home for the USS Cod too - 153 people packed into a fleet boat cannot be fun!

[SteamWake]

One of the accounts of a crew member said they were doing 18 knots when they grounded :o Also, that most subs would have pulled free, but that O-19's open mine laying ports were snagging on parts of the reef. Bad luck all around it sounds.

Must have made for a heck of a trip home for the USS Cod too - 153 people packed into a fleet boat cannot be fun!

What tha ? 18 knots with the mine ports open ?

Bad luck or bad seamanship... Oh well water under the bridge... (get it ? :D )

[seafarer]

By Siem Spruijt, crewmember of the Dutch Submarine O 19.
....
Hardly relieved from watch at four in the morning and just about to get into my bunk, the world seemed to have come to a stand still all of a sudden and I was practically flying through the air and thrown against the bulkhead. A violent shaking of the boat immediately followed. What happened? The sub, doing 18 knots, had struck Ladd Reef, coral reef in the South China Sea submerged due to high tide. The impact was immense. Just imagine 2300 tons and with a speed of 18 kts coming to a complete standstill within 20 meters! The heavy shaking was caused by both diesels full astern while the screw tips where hitting the reef.
...
I will now quote my senior engineer officer Mr. Kiepe (deceased) in technical command:

"..........At low tide it appeared that the boat was grounded at various places around amidships. The CO reported the mishap and requested assistance, whilst the ship's company commenced transferring heavy weights from the forward to the stern of the boat. Water and fuel not needed for the journey to Subic were blown overboard. The anchor and chain dropped on the reef, as did the mines which could be dropped out of their bins.
...
We found a way to make the boat jump, which would hopefully be of use. When a boat has main ballast tanks fitted with Kingstons, the low-pressure turbo blower can be used to put as much pressure in as it can stand. By opening the Kingstons suddenly, the released air makes the boat jump some inches, which should be helpful during pulling. With the USS Cod assisting, the attempt to pull O 19 off had a higher chance of success. The attempt began at high tide, with both diesels running astern at full power, torpedoes being fired from all bow tubes, the gun being fired, the jump-effect being used and the Cod pulling on the screws with her powerful engines. All to no avail, as the O-19 did not move an inch. A smooth hull submarine would have come off I am sure, but O-19 had open mine bins lodged in the reef, making it impossible to shift. A number of attempts were made, all of which were abortive. There was nothing else to do but to comply with Com. Task Force 71's order for the destruction of the boat on the 10th of July


That makes me think that the mine doors were open due to the post-stranding jettisoning of mines, and had become lodged from all the movement as they tried to get her off?

That's her on the reef:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/specials/images/boat_o19_aground.jpg

[Gino]

Some interesting things:

The O19 was based in Freemantle Australia, and so was the USS Cod. However, the crew from both boats had never met. The subvets from Cod that I talked to said that they didn't even know there were dutch submarines fighting in the Pacific until they had to rescue one...

The O10's commander was a fine skipper, that knew his stuff. But since they had been unable to 'shoot' a star for about a week they were off by a couple of miles. This caused the accident. Luckily nobody got killed.

The O19 was promised a tugboat to pull them off the reef. However, this was assigned to another spot, so the Cod was sent instead. Something the O19 skipper complained about later.

During the 'Thank-You-Cod' party in Freemantle the announcement came that the war was over. You can guess what kind of party that must have been. Even the subvets tell us nowadays 'It was the best party ever!!!"

groetjes,

[SteamWake]

Interesting espically the part about not being able to get a star shot.

I thought a 'noon sight' could be taken in all but the worst of conditions.

[Gino]

Interesting espically the part about not being able to get a star shot.

I thought a 'noon sight' could be taken in all but the worst of conditions.

I did some more research on this one (Mr. Horneman wrote an excellent piece on the dutch submarines in WW2):
There are several reasons for this mishap:

The boat ran aground on the reef at 05:40.
The sky had been overcast for a couple of days.
The boat would have traveled submerged during daytime (hence no noon sight)
The maps the dutch used in the Pacific were not of the best quality, and had suffered much from use.
During the war it happened several times that boats didn't know where they were. If they couldn't use the sextant, they fell back on the compass. More or less guessing where they were they tried to find land, or if the weather improved they could 'shoot the sun/stars'
The commanding officer of the O19 took full responsability in this matter. He stated that he had simply not seen the reef on the map when he was plotting the course.
The Chief of Staff of the Dutch Navy however, did not come to the same conclusion. The Captain of the O19 was not punished for the accident, also because of his previous service record.

groetjes,

[staylo]

That was fascinating - both the video and the accounts. Thanks for posting it!

[pythos]

Its still around. That is amazing. I thought some greedy bastard scrap dealer would have layed claim on it. I find it funny how both boats from that story are still around, though one in far far better shape.

[seafarer]

:p Well, the Spratly Islands are in the middle of nowhere, and they are currently contested by at least 3 or 4 nations. Vietnam, China, and Taiwan claim all of the islands. Malaysia and the Philippines claim some of them, and Indonesia and Brunei have economic interests in the area but make no official claims. Vietnam currently has a lighthouse on Ladd Reef - apparently these countries go around builiding lighthouses as some sort of statement of sovereignty.

I know I wouldn't want to go anywhere near there, especially for some old scrap metal! :p

P.S. according to the CIA world fact book, there are also no ports, just anchorages (amongst the 100 odd islands and reefs) and only 3 small airports (only 2 with paved runways) - doesn't say which country runs which airport. The potential presence of oil and gas deposits I suppose explains the various countries interest in claiming the area - and why their sole presences there seem to be military forces.

[Gino]

Its still around. That is amazing. I thought some greedy bastard scrap dealer would have layed claim on it. I find it funny how both boats from that story are still around, though one in far far better shape.

Apart from the political situation in the area, nature also helps a little.
When the USS Cod tried to get the O19 of the reef, the skipper had a hard time keeping the boat close to the reef, and in position to get ropes and chains to the O19. The current there along the reef is very strong.

The crew didn't think much of cdr. Westbrook, since it was his first voyage commanding a sub.
After the O19 event the crew came to a different opinion and really gave him credit.
Last September at the reunion of Cod-veterans one of them (who sailed on Cod all 7 patrols) said: "He sure knew how to sail the boat"

This is part of the events as described in the &th war patrol report of Cod:

Mind that sailor Hemphill was seriously ill, and they were actually under way to put him ashore for they thought he would die. Fortunately the penicillin helped.

8 July
Enroute Subic Bay.
0646 H Set course for Ladd Reef at four-engine speed in accordance with CTF 71 serial 61.
0834 H Sent Cod Fourth as acknowledgment.
0909 H SD contact at 32 miles-no IFF.
0915 H Lost SD contact.
0930 H SD contact at 25 miles-gave IFF.
0935 H Lost SD contact.
1200 H Posit: Lat. 11°-01' N, Long. 111°-34' E.
2035 H Exchanged calls with Dutch submarine, 0-19 (SC#4). Until this time did not know the condition of the grounded boat or of its personnel. Accordingly, had made preparation to bringing all hands aboard. Had two rubber boat, heaving lines, life rings and rescue party topside; dry clothes, empty bunks, hot soup and coffee below.
2048 H Received message from 0-19 giving exact location on reef and asking us to approach at dawn to take towlines. As we left we said we would see him at dawn. Indicating the captain had not lost his sense of humor along with his boat, he replied, "We will certainly be here."

9 July
Lying off Ladd Reef.
0606 H Commenced approach on 0-19, flooded down, with sound heads and pit log raised.
0615 H Terrific rain squall has reduced visibility to 200 yards.
0721 H Rain has abated, allowing us to see grounded boat. Looks to be hope­lessly stuck, but will try.
0806 H Received first line from line-throwing gun.
0830 H Have wire cable secured through our bull nose in bow.
0835 H We are backing and 0-19 is backing, firing her forward gun and making lots of smoke. Current has carried us so that it is impossible to tow directly astern.
0840 H Wire cable parts aboard 0-19. This was 1½" new, stainless steel wire,
belonging to 0-19.
0845 H SO contact, 20 miles-no IFF.
0850 H Sighted plane. B-24.
0906 H Exchanged calls by VHF with plane.
0919 H SO contacts at 18 and 20 miles-gave IFF.
0925 H Planes in sight, Liberator and Privateer. Meanwhile we have been haul­ing the broken line aboard.
1035 H Maneuvering to come close enough, but not too close, to send line over. Set is easterly here and is really something. Checked it by TDC, with 0-19 as target and got one and a half knots.
1155 H Having secured line, we are both backing.
1156 H Second cable snapped.
1200 H Posit: Lat. 8°-40' N, Long. 111°-40' E. (Ladd Reef)
1225 H Sent over rubber boat with my First Lieutenant for consultation. Mean­while, have been bringing tackle remnants of last towing effort aboard, using both capstans.
1416 H Commanding Officer of HNMS 0-19, Lt. Comdr. J.F.O. Van Hooff, RNN, came aboard.
1520 H Now have 80 fathoms chain aboard, taken from 0-19. Have lashed ten fathoms of it to mooring line with marlin. Will send him line from throwing gun, 21 ­thread, mooring line and chain, in that order.
1530 H Maneuvering to close. This is ticklish cruising. Allowing for currents, try to put my bow within ten feet of his stern, fathometer reading 3 and 4 fathoms with bottom jagged and appearing to be extremely near. Can remain close to him for only fifteen or twenty minutes, twisting all the time, before I am set so close to reef that it's necessary to back clear, and come in again.
1605 H Lt. Comdr. Van Hooff left the ship.
1615 H 0-19 has both ends of chain. He will secure one end around conning tower tonight, and at dawn tomorrow we will take other end aboard for final tug at high tide.
1900 H Received message from 0-19 telling us he could not lift chain with his capstan and requesting us to lift it for him. Do not want to maneuver around reef after dark, at low tide and with the unpredictable current. Told 0-19 we would return at dawn.
1920 H Sent Cod Sixth giving results and plans, and requesting instructions. Our patient, Hemphill, is greatly improved tonight, up and about a bit.

10 July
Lying off Ladd Reef.
0005 H Receive CTF 71, serial 69, giving instructions.
0547 H Have 0-19 in sight, commencing approach. Hope we can do him some good today, but doubt it. He is setting on two rocks, one aft of the longitudinal cen­ter, and has rock projections into his outboard mine tanks.
0715 H Have manila line from 0-19. He was unable to heave in chain with his capstan. Will have to lift both ends with our capstans.
0725 H One end of chain on deck of 0-19.
0815 H End of chain secured on 0-19. Now for our end.
0915 H First two attempts to heave in chain unsuccessful. Current seems to be stronger than yesterday. Also, bitter end of chain, manila mooring line and a least twenty fathoms of 21-thread are on bottom. Have life jackets on end of line as marker. At each new approach, we pick up end of line and heave in until line snags or until current set us away toward the reef and we are forced to back clear.
0950 H SD contact, 13 miles-gave IFF.
1010 H Plane in sight, PBY, circling.
1025 H Line appears to be hopelessly fouled on coral bottom. Putting over rub­ber boat to assist in freeing line.
1100 H Will make one more approach, pick up manila line and try to clear mess on bottom. This is wearing on nerves.
1145 H Last line has parted. Sent message to 0-19 that we will stand by to take off personnel. Felt almost as bad as the 0-19 skipper at his having to abandon his ship. However, did not see what more we could do. Had worked eight hours yester­day and six today with no progress. Had touched bottom forward ourselves at least once in our many approaches, and did not desire to have two submarines aground. Our towing gear was makeshift, and our personnel, though willing and resourceful, were inexperienced at rigging for a tow. Also, Jap planes and/or subs might have appeared at any embarrassing moment.
1200 H Posit:. Lat. 8°-40' N, Long. 111 °-40' E.
1255 H First boatload aboard. Am using two rubber boats, lashed together with line from each submarine to rubber boats. Have to back clear and come in again after every two or three trips of lifeboats because of current.
1330 H Sent over two demolition charges with Gunnery Officer.
1455 H Last boatload aboard. Total personnel: 47 men, 8 officers. Backed clear! Demolition charges set for one and a half hours.
1536 H Made trim dive.
1545 H Surfaced.
1610 H Closing 0-19.
1627 H Demolition charges went off with muffled explosion and smoke from conning tower and forward hatch.
1628 H Maneuvering to fire torpedo from bow tubes.
1636 H Heard and saw second internal explosion, possibly second demolition charge.
1637 H Fired #5 tube, aimed by TBT bearings just abaft conning tower, depth set, 0 feet. Hit as aimed 34 seconds later. Left large hole, but submarine has not budged.
1643 H Fired #4 tube, aimed by TBT bearing at after torpedo room, which con­tains two warheads, depth set, 2 feet. Hit as aimed 43 seconds later with terrific explosion. Stern gone, after part completely wrecked and boat is smoking.
1650 H Commenced firing 5-inch gun, range 1500 yards.
1700 H Ceased firing, having expended 16 rounds, for 16 hits. Remainder of 0-19 is still on reef, though it has a slightly greater list. She has a dozen holes in her hull from the 5-inch gun, her entire stem is wreckage and she was left smoking heavily. Wish my first torpedo fired had been at a slant-eye instead of this. Could appreciate the captain's feelings as he silently watched his boat being destroyed.
1702 H Set course for Subic Bay at two-engine speed.
2228 H Sent Cod Seventh. Patient Hemphill almost fuIly recovered. Will return to duty in a day or two. He has received 100,000 units penicillin.


groetjes,

[GerritJ9]

Actually the snorkels were removed for a different reason. When the O-21, O-22, O-23 and O-24 arrived in the UK after the German inavsion of the Netherlands, they were equipped with snorkels. However, the Royal Navy ORDERED them to be removed forthwith, considering the installations to be "useless and dangerous", partly due to the extra piping and apertures required. Strangely, the RNethN complied, although formally the RN only had OPERATIONAL control over RNethN vessels- in all other matters, such as personnel etc, RNethN regulations, procedures etc applied.
I don't know whether O-20 still had her snorkel gear when she was lost; in the case of O-19, it would almost certainly have been removed when she was in the UK if this had not been done previously.

[ben cg]

Nice story. I love this bit;

13 July 1945: USS Cod, with the Dutch crew on board, arrives at Subic Bay (Manilla) in the Philippines.


The O 19 crew, except the Cdt. who is staying in Manilla, is taken back to Fremantle by ship and airplane, Fremantle being both O 19's and USS Cod's home port. This return voyage was not officially organized, the crew just "hitchhiked" to their destination.
The O 19 crew is waiting for USS Cod when she arrives back in Fremantle and brings them to a party they had arranged as a "thank you" to the USS Cod for saving their lives. The party last for three days and USS Cod memorializes the event by adding a cocktail glass and the name the O 19 to her battle flag. These emblems are proudly displayed on USS Cod's bridge and battle flag today.


:cool:

pictures at the bottom of this page: http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_o19.htm