When are we going to see the end of US bashing?

[waste gate]

What do you think? Will the jealousy ever end?

I have provided for multiple answers.

[DeepIron]

Will the jealousy ever end? That's presumptive...:shifty: as in... you're basing your question on the presumption that people are indeed *jealous* of the US...

[waste gate]

Will the jealousy ever end?
That's presumptive...:shifty:

What other reason can you think of?

[Konovalov]

I haven't been here much of late. Is it really that bad on the General Topics forum? Is this thread really necessary? :-?

[stabiz]

Will the jealousy ever end? That's presumptive...:shifty:
What other reason can you think of?

Several. :rotfl:Statements like that might have something to do with it.

[waste gate]

Will the jealousy ever end? That's presumptive...:shifty:
What other reason can you think of?

Several. :rotfl:Statements like that might have something to do with it.

Please tell us how to change.

[Letum]

Please tell us how to change.


......less topics like this might be a good start. :shifty:

Seriously, you must have known when starting this topic that you where posting an invitation
for conflict to all the members here who hold strong opinions on the matter. :nope:

It's a little like holding a arsonists party is a fuel dump.


I'm not saying these things shouldn't be discussed, just that a little tact when starting
the topic might make it a little less "flammable".

[waste gate]

Please tell us how to change.


......less topics like this might be a good start. :shifty:

Seriously, you must have known when starting this topic that you where posting an invitation
for conflict to all the members here who hold strong opinions on the matter. :nope:

It's a little like holding a arsonists party is a fuel dump.


I'm not saying these things shouldn't be discussed, just that a little tact when starting
the topic might make it a little less "flammable".

I'm willing to learn Letum. What would be your suggestion for making it less 'flammable'?

[U49]

Please tell us how to change.

Learn to know the rest of the world, maybe? :hmm:
Better yet: tell those fellow's who can't even name their own states, that there is something beyond LA and NY.
I'm very often in contact with young americans who happen to visit europe.
You should expect that a 25 year old man of good education is well settled in his understanding of the world.... :yep:
But even though I've seen it before now, it surprises me all the times again what they tell me years later about "opening eyes" and "totally different view".

And keep in mind that europe is only ONE possible place to go and have a look with your own eyes.
:ping:

[waste gate]

Please tell us how to change.

Learn to know the rest of the world, maybe? :hmm:
Better yet: tell those fellow's who can't even name their own states, that there is something beyond LA and NY.
I'm very often in contact with young americans who happen to visit europe.
You should expect that a 25 year old man of good education is well settled in his understanding of the world.... :yep:
But even though I've seen it before now, it surprises me all the times again what they tell me years later about "opening eyes" and "totally different view".

And keep in mind that europe is only ONE possible place to go and have a look with your own eyes.
:ping:

Are you saying that as long as the US does things the way the rest of the world wants its all OK.?

[donut]

The US.understands,the haves,& the have-nots. The lazy get no gold star,so they BASH:dead:,& never learn.

[antikristuseke]

I dont really think ofmyself as an US basher as such, but im pretty sure if the with us or against us mentality doesnt change there will be plenty of bashing from other parties, the world simply sint black and white.

[DeepIron]

What other reason can you think of? C'mon WG... you're baiting... LOL... :rotfl:

The issue, as I see it, is pretty simple really, and unfortunate. The world "sees" the actions and effects of the American government and not the American people... Anyone abroad who thinks we live like kings over here is poorly informed... American society has it's share of issues..

I have yet to meet ANYONE in my travels both home and abroad, who wouldn't sit down with me "as a person" and talk over a beer, drink, dinner, whatever...

Imbeciles like Dubb-Ya and a confused, aggressive, "Imperialistic" Federal attitude about bringing "Democracy" to the "poor, unenlightened masses of the world" creates a bias towards Americans.

Hey, I put my pants on just the way *most* of the rest of the males in the world do...

[fatty]

Bizarrerly worded flamebait thread with a public poll... good things will come of this.

[DeepIron]

From the other thread:
Isolationism isn't the answer. No it isn't... but neither is intruding "at will" into the affairs of other nations... :shifty: Walking in "like we own the place" isn't going to make us any new friends... :damn:

[waste gate]

What other reason can you think of? C'mon WG... you're baiting... LOL... :rotfl:

The issue, as I see it, is pretty simple really, and unfortunate. The world "sees" the actions and effects of the American government and not the American people... Anyone abroad who thinks we live like kings over here is poorly informed... American society has it's share of issues..

I have yet to meet ANYONE in my travels both home and abroad, who wouldn't sit down with me "as a person" and talk over a beer, drink, dinner, whatever...

Imbeciles like Dubb-Ya and a confused, aggressive, "Imperialistic" Federal attitude about bringing "Democracy" to the "poor, unenlightened masses of the world" creates a bias towards Americans.

Hey, I put my pants on just the way *most* of the rest of the males in the world do...

I'm not trying to bait anyone, even Letum stated it should be talked about. I have yet to see a reason for the US bashing, other than they don't like GWB and his policies. For the most part our congress has either supported or enabled those policies. Since the US is a republic I'd have to say that when the canard regarding the addministration verses the US people is raised it is just that a prevarication.

[waste gate]

From the other thread:
Isolationism isn't the answer. No it isn't... but neither is intruding "at will" into the affairs of other nations... :shifty: Walking in "like we own the place" isn't going to make us any new friends... :damn:

Tell that to Microsoft. Or the Bosnians. Or the people of Darfur who would love to have some nation stop the carnage.

[U49]

Are you saying that as long as the US does things the way the rest of the world wants its all OK.?

You are quite focused on your poll options, aren't you?
OK. If you take foreign politics: Better do things after you have learned what it is about and what the other views are.

And this has nothing to do with the US doing things different, but for a change: they would understand what they are doing and why.

[DeepIron]

I'm not trying to bait anyone...
You've asked an 'open ended' rhetorical question to which there is no singular answer. The law of averages will probably raise its ugly head and someone will get emotionally charged, say something fairly inappropriate, and the thread will be closed.

But until then...:smug:

I have yet to see a reason for the US bashing, other than they don't like GWB and his policies.

What? That isn't enough? Almost 8 years of this nitwit thumbing his nose at Congress, lying to the American people, foisting his "world view" upon the rest of us...

Geez, I'm an American and I can't stand the guy ("we all chipped in for a bag of cement" to quote Paul McCartney)... I can understand why others in the global community might seize upon him as an icon of Americanism and maybe not like the rest of us too much..

[waste gate]

Are you saying that as long as the US does things the way the rest of the world wants its all OK.?

You are quite focused on your poll options, aren't you?
OK. If you take foreign politics: Better do things after you have learned what it is about and what the other views are.

And this has nothing to do with the US doing things different, but for a change: they would understand what they are doing and why.

That is a fine sentiment U49. How long do you think the US has been doing things w/o understanding what they(more GWB slamming) it is/are doing and why?

[PapaG39]

Nope! people just love to bitch about something.

And I couldn't care less... Let them bitch.
I still live in a free country and it suits me just fine... I support President Bush also. I think he is doing just fine...To bad he couldn't go another term.

[waste gate]

Bizarrerly worded flamebait thread with a public poll... good things will come of this.

I'd have thought you were serious save your vote in favor of each poll subject.

[Winston]

It depends on how one would define 'bashing'. If you mean expressing an opinion on current United States policy then as long as it worded in a thoughtful and non-insulting way then it should be fine. However, anyone who verbally attacks any country using foolish generalisations obliviously steps way out of line.
I live in Wales myself and enjoy quite a good western lifestyle. I get to do a lot of things thus I can say I'm not jealous of the United States. I think most people living in the western world would honestly tell you they are not jealous either. Most Europeans will probably have quite different views on a lot of topics then people in the United States and thus will often find themselves erupting in debate.


If I may Waste Gate I'd like to ask why you used the word jealousy? Personally if I were to look more closely at the term I might be slightly insulted myself that you'd think I'd be jealous. I'd ask myself, “Dose he think that I'd be jealous because he believes I'm worse off then the average United States citizen as I happen to live in Wales?”


Might I venture the question. Why dose it seem that there is so much 'resentment' to the United States? Might I then suggest that you review each releasable response you receive and think about these different point of view. Put yourself in there shoes and perhaps you might understand how and why there is resentment out there.


p.s. I did not vote by the way as I have no resentment toward the American people.

[waste gate]

I'm not trying to bait anyone...
You've asked an 'open ended' rhetorical question to which there is no singular answer. The law of averages will probably raise its ugly head and someone will get emotionally charged, say something fairly inappropriate, and the thread will be closed.

But until then...:smug:

I have yet to see a reason for the US bashing, other than they don't like GWB and his policies.

What? That isn't enough? Almost 8 years of this nitwit thumbing his nose at Congress, lying to the American people, foisting his "world view" upon the rest of us...

Geez, I'm an American and I can't stand the guy ("we all chipped in for a bag of cement" to quote Paul McCartney)... I can understand why others in the global community might seize upon him as an icon of Americanism and maybe not like the rest of us too much..

Open ended questions are no more than exercising my right to free speach. If you see it as a problem it says more about you than me. You dont really believe in free speach do you?

Basic US policy hasn't changed in thirty-plus years. Bashing GWB isn't helping your effort. Like I stated earlier congress has either endorsed or allowed everything GWB has done. If anything congress and the people of the US are at fault as much as GWB.

[U49]

How long do you think the US has been doing things w/o understanding what they(more GWB slamming) it is/are doing and why?

I don't want to drift into your internal politics wether it was this guy, his predecessor or whoever. It's your election, not mine.

But I still can remember the days, when someone in the US made smart moves.

OT (sorry, but I feel it fits) : Not an example of "smart" but afterwards one of my all-time favorites:
"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you today that I`ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." :rotfl:
Guess who was that ? :D

[waste gate]

It depends on how one would define 'bashing'. If you mean expressing an opinion on current United States policy then as long as it worded in a thoughtful and non-insulting way then it should be fine. However, anyone who verbally attacks any country using foolish generalisations obliviously steps way out of line.
I live in Wales myself and enjoy quite a good western lifestyle. I get to do a lot of things thus I can say I'm not jealous of the United States. I think most people living in the western world would honestly tell you they are not jealous either. Most Europeans will probably have quite different views on a lot of topics then people in the United States and thus will often find themselves erupting in debate.


If I may Waste Gate I'd like to ask why you used the word jealousy? Personally if I were to look more closely at the term I might be slightly insulted myself that you'd think I'd be jealous. I'd ask myself, “Dose he think that I'd be jealous because he believes I'm worse off then the average United States citizen as I happen to live in Wales?”


Might I venture the question. Why dose it seem that there is so much 'resentment' to the United States? Might I then suggest that you review each releasable response you receive and think about these different point of view. Put yourself in there shoes and perhaps you might understand how and why there is resentment out there.


p.s. I did not vote by the way as I have no resentment toward the American people.

Perhaps a better word was envy. Britain, Germany, France, et al, were powers in the past and are not now. Perhaps their populations are less than happy with their political place in the world. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on anyone's socio-economic position, nor how the see themselves.

[waste gate]

OT (sorry, but I feel it fits) : Not an example of "smart" but afterwards one of my all-time favorites:
"My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you today that I`ve signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes." :rotfl:
Guess who was that ? :D

Ron Regan.

[XabbaRus]

US bashing? where I haven't seen that for a long time here.

[U49]

Ron Regan.

Score! :yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

Anyone who has been reading this forum regularly over the past few days knows what this thread is really about. I suggest that we move on.

[waste gate]

Anyone who has been reading this forum regularly over the past few days knows what this thread is really about. I suggest that we move on.

It's about US bashing and I made every attempt to make it fair by opening the poll to multiple answers and allowing for the free flow of opinion by inviting other opinions to be aired in the respondents posts.

If you think something else is involved I give you this :

Anyway, don't get too wrapped up in it, I think the world bashes the US more than Germany these days.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=684226#post684226

[Takeda Shingen]

Anyone who has been reading this forum regularly over the past few days knows what this thread is really about. I suggest that we move on.

It's about US bashing and I made every attempt to make it fair by opening the poll to multiple answers and allowing for the free flow of opinion by inviting other opinions to be aired in the respondents posts.

You think that I am very, very stupid, no? This is about you and Skybird. It started two days ago. You're mad about how it turned out and you are going about things in a very unproductive way.

For the second time, let's just cut the semantics and move on.

[Ducimus]

Everything we do will cause complaints. Even if we don't do anything at all, people will still complain. Ever see that spoof joke of "If patton were president"? I really, really, like the notion.

[Oberon]

Ron Regan.

Score! :yep:

I love that quote! And others too. Reagan did come out with some good ones... :D

[waste gate]

Anyone who has been reading this forum regularly over the past few days knows what this thread is really about. I suggest that we move on.

It's about US bashing and I made every attempt to make it fair by opening the poll to multiple answers and allowing for the free flow of opinion by inviting other opinions to be aired in the respondents posts.

You think that I am very, very stupid, no? This is about you and Skybird. It started two days ago. You're mad about how it turned out and you are going about things in a very unproductive way.

For the second time, let's just cut the semantics and move on.

You are so wrong TAK. I don't even read most of what SB writes. It is mostly contradictory. This was started because its time to start a conversation about how and why the SS members are anti-US. I think its a worth while topic.

EDIT: If you are correct TAK, perhaps it is time to express that sentiment to the appropriate party.

[Penelope_Grey]

Im not jealous of the USA... As with all countries, they have strengths and weaknesses.

I think the "America bashing" on the forum probably comes from the fact there are too many people on the GT forum who wrap the Stars and stripes round themselves and chant USA USA USA and puff out their chests a little too much...

Pride in your country is one thing, but, rubbing peoples faces in it... thats another... though as with all things, I dare say it can be 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

[waste gate]

Im not jealous of the USA... As with all countries, they have strengths and weaknesses.

I think the "America bashing" on the forum probably comes from the fact there are too many people on the GT forum who wrap the Stars and stripes round themselves and chant USA USA USA and puff out their chests a little too much...

Pride in your country is one thing, but, rubbing peoples faces in it... thats another... though as with all things, I dare say it can be 6 of one, half dozen of the other.

The last time I heard anyone chant USA, USA, USA, death was in front of it.

How would you feel if entire nations wanted you and your countrymen dead?

[Oberon]

Why would a site run by an American, frequented by many Americans and featuring many American things (US submarines, planes, etc) be anti-American?

I think what it primarily may boil down to (and I'm no expert) is more US president-bashing than actual US bashing. After all, while I think that Bush is a bit of an idiot at times, I don't think that this means that every American person is a bit of an idiot...even if they did break away from the Empire ( ;) j/k ;) ), and on the subject of Bush, I happened to be very touched (and my opinion of him bumped up by a notch) by his speech after the 7/7 bombings when he was up at Gleneagles. So, the guy has a bit of hope, it's just that some absolutely disasterous decisions overshadow his entire career. Much as Blair won't be remembered for helping to solve the Irish issue but more for all the problems that happened while Labour was in power (Particularly British involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq, and the whole Hutton fiasco that followed it).
Politics is a risky game, sometimes the game plays you right, sometimes it totally screws you up and throws you out in shreds, it's how you're able to play that game determines how you are remembered by future generations (and when you consider that a sizable portion of that 'game' these days is the media, then you're screwed before you even start).
Besides, as it stands at the moment, the US is the big power of the world, like Britain and Rome before it, and I bet Britain and Rome were Real popular amongest other nations of the time. (Although I don't think there was a subsim radio room back in the 1800s...)

[Penelope_Grey]

The last time I heard anyone chant USA, USA, USA, death was in front of it.

How would you feel if entire nations wanted you and your countrymen dead?

Considering Britain is far older than the USA, I'd say as far as nations wanting us dead... been there done that and got the T-shirt.

Recent example, London was attacked and I was on a holiday and very near Liverpool station at the time. I have said this before... I'd say the American position is far fron unique or exclusive.

[3Jane]

A rather disingenuous selection, especially in the 'No'. Ah well :rotfl:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Will the jealousy ever end? That's presumptive...:shifty: as in... you're basing your question on the presumption that people are indeed *jealous* of the US...


And that is my reason for picking no.

[waste gate]

The last time I heard anyone chant USA, USA, USA, death was in front of it.

How would you feel if entire nations wanted you and your countrymen dead?

Considering Britain is far older than the USA, I'd say as far as nations wanting us dead... been there done that and got the T-shirt.

Recent example, London was attacked and I was on a holiday and very near Liverpool station at the time. I have said this before... I'd say the American position is far fron unique or exclusive.

So your opinion is that the US has over reacted.

[waste gate]

A rather disingenuous selection, especially in the 'No'. Ah well :rotfl:

I think I was fair by leaving it open to other opnions. Don't you?

[Penelope_Grey]

So your opinion is that the US has over reacted.

No, your country seems fine from where I sit. I wouldn't say the USA overreacted certainly, but...Basically what I am saying is, yours is not the first country to be despised by other nations, and you won't be the last. That is my point... at present its the USA's turn to be the whipping post. It will be somebody else's one day.

[waste gate]

So your opinion is that the US has over reacted.

No, your country seems fine from where I sit. I wouldn't say the USA overreacted certainly, but...Basically what I am saying is, yours is not the first country to be despised by other nations, and you won't be the last. That is my point... at present its the USA's turn to be the whipping post. It will be somebody else's one day.

Fair enough. Perhaps the US should pull back a bit, rearm, take care of our own and wait until we are called on to protect the freedoms of other nations. While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.

[Letum]

While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.

You forgot Mexicans, Frenchmen, Russians, Indians and Atheists.

....anyone I missed? :shifty:

[U49]

Basically what I am saying is, yours is not the first country to be despised by other nations, and you won't be the last.

@waste gate: This is almost what I had in my mind with "learning to know the rest of the world"
The earth is not spinning around the US. To exaggerate this idea: The USA are just another country somewhere between Canada and Mexico, right next to Neverland.

[waste gate]

While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.

You forgot Mexicans, Frenchmen, Russians, Indians and Atheists.

....anyone I missed? :shifty:

So sorry I missed those folks. enjoy.

[waste gate]

Basically what I am saying is, yours is not the first country to be despised by other nations, and you won't be the last.

@waste gate: This is almost what I had in my mind with "learning to know the rest of the world"
The earth is not spinning around the US. To exaggerate this idea: The USA are just another country somewhere between Canada and Mexico, right next to Neverland.

I bow down to you, and your countrymen. What would the world do without you.
After all, you have always rushed in to save others.

What country is that?

[Penelope_Grey]

Fair enough. Perhaps the US should pull back a bit, rearm, take care of our own and wait until we are called on to protect the freedoms of other nations. While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.
Rearm? LOL

Do you not think you have enough bombs and tanks and ships? Perhaps spending money on social welfare instead is a better idea... just a suggestion.

And when did you protect any countries freedoms since WW2? The Iraqis did not ask for your protection, nor did the Afghans. In fact, they are the ones that resent your help.

[Winston]

Perhaps a better word was envy. Britain, Germany, France, et al, were powers in the past and are not now. Perhaps their populations are less than happy with their political place in the world. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on anyone's socio-economic position, nor how the see themselves.
For myself I don't envy the United States for it's position on the world stage. It seems to attract to much attention to it's self, to much jealousy maybe. (That's a joke there by the way). I'd like to think there's more to having pride in ones nation than it's military power or industrial muscle. One can look to it's history or take pride in sporting events. One can also take pride from ones fellow citizens who make an impact on the world stage. Scientists who discover something that changes the way we all live or a writer who changes the way people think. I think many of the smaller nations can take a lot of pride in there achievements in this regard. Perhaps taking to much pride in ones military can blind a nation to the things that really matter?


Also I don't think many normal people today envy the military force of another nation, or military force in general. However, let me say that there are many things that I admire about the United States. Cultural achievements like the moon landings for example or amazing feats or engineering like the Hover Dam. I've got to admit I plan on visiting the United States someday when I'm not so busy just to see places like the grand canyon. One could go on and on about such things I think, as you could with many Nations.

[U49]

I bow down to you, and your countrymen. What would the world do without you.
After all, you have always rushed in to save others.

What country is that?

Gotcha ;) I need to check that out, must be a country far back in times. Irony sounds a little bit like shakespeare writing about the vikings :rotfl:

[waste gate]

Fair enough. Perhaps the US should pull back a bit, rearm, take care of our own and wait until we are called on to protect the freedoms of other nations. While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.
Rearm? LOL

Do you not think you have enough bombs and tanks and ships? Perhaps spending money on social welfare instead is a better idea... just a suggestion.

And when did you protect any countries freedoms since WW2? The Iraqis did not ask for your protection, nor did the Afghans. In fact, they are the ones that resent your help.

Social welfare is just another term for mommy. As far as protecting other nations. The bear is rising. Not to mention Islam and the chinese. The US pulls out of NATO. Takes the nukes from Britain. The US owns UK nukes you know. Remove all support from Europe. Pre-WWII, peace in our time. How long before Europe explodes? History, my dear, tells the tale.

[Winston]

I bow down to you, and your countrymen. What would the world do without you.
After all, you have always rushed in to save others.

What country is that?

In all honesty in regard to world war two what nation can say that it acted in time to save the world from another world war?
Also there is much value in being humble in matters like war. It was hell for all the people involved and a lot was given by many millions of people who did not call the United States home.

[waste gate]

I bow down to you, and your countrymen. What would the world do without you.
After all, you have always rushed in to save others.

What country is that?

In all honesty in regard to world war two what nation can say that it acted in time to save the world from another world war?
Also there is much value in being humble in matters like war. It was hell for all the people involved and a lot was given by many millions of people who did not call the United States home.

I'm talking about recent aid. Lets say since 1960. That should give enough time to tell how much of a gift that nation is to the world.

But continue to bash the US because it is a bad nation.

[U49]

The US pulls out of NATO. Takes the nukes from Britain. The US owns UK nukes you know. Remove all support from Europe. Pre-WWII, peace in our time. How long before Europe explodes? History, my dear, tells the tale.

May be right or wrong, what matters is the point: did it come up to you while writing up the argumentation to ASK if US help was welcome, or did you just take the plain logic that it is needed as "welcome enough"?

Whatever your response is: take it for a moment and flip the view around.
That could be the first explainable reason why a poor afghan farmer's son is voluntarily creeping up into the hills with completly moronic middle-age taliban instead of building up his own country and claim it's fair place in the 21st century.... :hmm:

[Letum]

While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.
You forgot Mexicans, Frenchmen, Russians, Indians and Atheists.

....anyone I missed? :shifty:
So sorry I missed those folks. enjoy.


Your not serious are you?

[waste gate]

The US pulls out of NATO. Takes the nukes from Britain. The US owns UK nukes you know. Remove all support from Europe. Pre-WWII, peace in our time. How long before Europe explodes? History, my dear, tells the tale.

May be right or wrong, what matters is the point: did it come up to you while writing up the argumentation to ASK if US help was welcome, or did you just take the plain logic that it is needed as "welcome enough"?

Whatever your response is: take it for a moment and flip the view around.
That could be the first explainable reason why a poor afghan farmer's son is voluntarily creeping up into the hills with completly moronic middle-age taliban instead of building up his own country and claim it's fair place in the 21st century.... :hmm:

OK, tell your government to give the nukes back.

Don't for an instant believe that the Afghani farmers boy has ever been any more than an Afghani boy and living at a higher standard than anyone in his family. It is that ability to make onse self better which makes Afganistan a better nation than it was before. Opportunity!!

Don't weigh the Afghani boy down with your lack of ambition. Give him the opportunity even if you won't take the oppotunity given you in your own nation. The Afghan boy cannot save you from your laziness.

[waste gate]

While we pull back enjoy the muslim and chinese. I'm sure they will share that love of talk.
You forgot Mexicans, Frenchmen, Russians, Indians and Atheists.

....anyone I missed? :shifty:
So sorry I missed those folks. enjoy.


Your not serious are you?

No less serious than you Letum.

[U49]

OK, tell your government to give the nukes back.

Eeehm, we are talking about the same country?
WE don't have any nukes! Neither do we store them nor do we want them, which is official policy and law.
The only nukes in germany are as far as I know sitting under US control on an airforce base and are we are waiting for the US to name the time WHEN they gone! Should be something around 20 warheads to get rid of.

[waste gate]

OK, tell your government to give the nukes back.

Eeehm, we are talking about the same country?
WE don't have any nukes! Neither do we store them nor do we want them, which is official policy and law.
The only nukes in germany are as far as I know sitting under US control on an airforce base and are we are waiting for the US to name the time WHEN they gone! Should be something around 20 warheads to get rid of.

Now I know where you live U49. Germany. I can more accurately answer you inquiries now. B4 I thought you were a UK guy.

[Winston]

But continue to bash the US because it is a bad nation.

Funny, as I've not bashed the United States. Nore will I ever bash the United States. It seems to me that you almost want people to insult your country. Do you not see how antagonising you are being? You say you want to talk about things but then start putting words in to peoples mouths. I'm beginning to think you really are looking for remarks that you can jump on and say “Look, there's one. A filthy America hater.” I put to you that you are not helping to change how people see you country and with this thread you are trying to provoke a reaction only to justify how you feel and how you think other people feel about your country.


May I ask what is it you expect from people when you directly antagonise them and label them something there not? I think it's obvious from what I posted previously that I don't hate the United States, far from it. I do not think America is a bad nation. And yet you see fit to say to me that I should carry on bashing. I'm really unsure as to whether you have been honest as to your motives for posting this thread.

[U49]

Now I know where you live U49. Germany. I can more accurately answer you inquiries now.

Sorry, :oops: I thought my national car designator in my profile told everything :)

[waste gate]

But continue to bash the US because it is a bad nation.

Funny, as I've not bashed the United States. Nore will I ever bash the United States. It seems to me that you almost want people to insult your country. Do you not see how antagonising you are being? You say you want to talk about things but then start putting words in to peoples mouths. I'm beginning to think you really are looking for remarks that you can jump on and say “Look, there's one. A filthy America hater.” I put to you that you are not helping to change how people see you country and with this thread you are trying to provoke a reaction only to justify how you feel and how you think other people feel about your country.


May I ask what is it you expect from people when you directly antagonise them and label them something there not? I think it's obvious from what I posted previously that I don't hate the United States, far from it. I do not think America is a bad nation. And yet you see fit to say to me that I should carry on bashing. I'm really unsure as to whether you have been honest as to your motives for posting this thread.

You may be correct Winston. I have been agressive when it comes to defending the US, which could prevent my goal of trying to understand why others dislike the US. Thank you for pointing it out to me and I apologize to anyone offended by my defense of my country.

[Winston]

You may be correct Winston. I have been agressive when it comes to defending the US, which could prevent my goal of trying to understand why others dislike the US. Thank you for pointing it out to me and I apologize to anyone offended by my defense of my country.

Hay, no problem. You love you country, as I love mine. I thank you for hearing what I was saying.

[Sea Demon]

The funniest thing I note is about the most popular answer in the poll currently. How "the US just doesn't understand the rest of the world". During my travels and number of years living in Europe with a USAF paycheck coming my way, it was obvious to me that most Europeans hardly understand anything about the USA much less the other areas of the world themselves. Lack of the understanding of the world is not just an American trait.

[blue3golf]

It won't end because we are to big of a target. For some reason other countries citizens feel the need to bash us when they know only half the story. Fix your own countries first, how about that, then you can give us advice. As far as us not understanding the rest of the world, I say if it wasn't for us over the last 100 or so years they would be complaining we weren't there for them and that we are isolationists, that is if there country still existed. We will never be able to win.

[waste gate]

I have been watching the poll also Sea Demon. It is interesting. My interpretation, based on other posts by some of the same people, is; that people in other nations would be OK with it if it were their idea and if they had a 'vote' in the decision.

Basically its OK if my nation does it ..... If the US does it under the GWB administration it must be bad.

Hypocracy.

[stabiz]

Weren`t you in the brig recently?

[Subnuts]

Weren`t you in the brig recently?

Yeah, but at least he got three hot meals and a bed there.

[Hakahura]

Social welfare is just another term for mommy. As far as protecting other nations. The bear is rising. Not to mention Islam and the chinese. The US pulls out of NATO. Takes the nukes from Britain. The US owns UK nukes you know. Remove all support from Europe. Pre-WWII, peace in our time. How long before Europe explodes? History, my dear, tells the tale.

Wrong.

The UK designed and built it's own warheads.
It leases the Trident delivery system from the US.

Just so you know.

BTW

The UK designed and built its first Fission Bomb completely without US help, due to a US embargo in the late 40's early 50's on sharing nuclear technology with anyone (McMahon Act). This situation was later reversed. Kind of ironic though when you think that information passed by the UK during WWII (Maud Committee) was partly responsible for the sucess of the Manhatten Project.



US bashing..... ?
Grow up and stop being insecure.

[Stealth Hunter]

BTW

The UK designed and built its first Fission Bomb completely without US help, due to a US embargo in the late 40's early 50's on sharing nuclear technology with anyone (McMahon Act). This situation was later reversed. Kind of ironic though when you think that information passed by the UK during WWII (Maud Committee) was partly responsible for the sucess of the Manhatten Project.



US bashing..... ?
Grow up and stop being insecure.

That's about the 60th post I've seen on the entire Internet today that's tried to steal an invention from the US.

Assuming that you don't like that statement, consider everything else the United States has given the world:

- The airplane
- The lightbulb
- The telephone
- The telegraph
- The machine gun
- The coffee pot
- The sewing machine
- The revolver
- The repeating rifle
- The burglar alarm
- The hearing aid
- The camera
- Frozen food
- The first nuclear submarine
- The laser
- The calculator
-THE INTERNET

And many other things...

By the way, the Atomic Bomb is technically an American invention...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb#History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb#History)

[Chock]

I'm neither Anti-US, jealous, envious or any other variant of those notions.

This thread has clearly got very little to do with 'my goal of trying to understand why others dislike the US', for if that were the case, would you not have asked for opinions, rather than steered people toward a set of predetermined choices listed in a poll, and therefore by definition stay with views you already know of?

And, 'When are we going to see the end of US bashing?' is hardly a great opener for wanting to understand other viewpoints now is it? Where for example is the choice: 'when it stops doing things which warrant it', should anyone hold that opinion? Your question is right up there with 'when are you going to stop beating your wife?' in terms of being leading and with limited choices for answers.

The question, and selection of answers, assumes that: a) It is always taking place. b) It should stop regardless of whether it might be justified or not, which might or might not be the case, and would be of interest if you really wanted to understand such opinions. And c) That anyone who makes a comment about the US must automatically be a confirmed anti-American all the time, rather than simply expressing an opinion on a matter, or jealous, or envious, or maybe a closet communist or something. Things are not that black and white. I'll slag off Nazis all day, but it doesn't make me envious of them, does it?

I think the US is great, and its people are great too, in fact I came very close to marrying an American girl some years ago, she was great. And on top of all that, I think the US Constitution is the best in the world, but how the US conducts itself on the world stage at the behest of politicians sometimes belies that document's wisdom. So I'd like to think you wouldn't confuse someone having a pop at stupid policies with being anti-US, any more than me thinking Tony Blair is an ******* makes me anti-British, it doesn't, it make me anti-*******, and there can be a *******s on either side of the pond, and they usually do a lot of baby-kissing, instead of representing their people.

:D Chock

[Stealth Hunter]

The United States is just the best flawed government in the world.:up::rotfl:

[kiwi_2005]

What do you think? Will the jealousy ever end?



No!:smug:

:roll:

:rotfl:

[Stealth Hunter]

As long as somebodies got something, somebody else is going to want/envy that something (hence, jealousy).

Never ending chain.:roll:

[baggygreen]

Down here, if someone is asked to describe a yank tourist, you're guaranteed to get 3 answers: "loud, obnoxious, fat".

Thats the stereotype, and while most yank tourists dont fall into that stereotype, those that do leave the lasting impression - the poor form of a few will give the entire group a bad name. I personally had a runin with some yanks recently, a big fat bloke trundled up to a pharmacy counter which clearly said "closed" then got very shirty when refused service. Staff wanted him to come to them, he wanted them to come to him - bit unrealistic, given as there was no cash in the til or anything. He continued to get louder and violent, before i told him to leave as we reserved the right to refuse to sell goods to customers. At no stage were any of my staff impolite, but he demanded unrealistic service and then was uptight when reality was forced onto him.

I acknowledge that this is but one tale, but its an incident i wont forget - whereas the yanks i have met who were polite and so on will very soon pass into the shadows of my memory. As i say, the few give a bad name to all.

Another anecdote. France, early oct 2001. i was a high school kid on a school tour of France, when a group of 3 of us were attacked by an angry mob of 20-something black frenchmen, crying out "death to america, ******* america, die american scum". we quickly defused the situation by showing them we were aussies, and they were really really apologetic and contrite. We asked them why were they so mad at america? they replied that they thought america was spreading itself throughout the world (as evidenced by afghanistan, apparently), bringing with it everything that was bad. The irony here lay in the fact they were carrying baseball bats, wearing caps (as i understand, an american invention) and wearing those big baggy basketball singlets and ice hockey jerseys.

As far as im concerned, there will always be those who hate america. Normally i think it will be due to misinformation (usually spread by the media), along with a general hatred of everything western, which America as a whole is seen to epitomise. Find me a nation which has not made any mistakes in its history. I guarantee there will not be one. So why the focus on america? because they are overall the most powerful nation in the world. because they are willing to wage war when attacked. most of all, because it is human nature to aspire to be the most powerful and america is currently in that spot.

[Enigma]

Deebait, is what you put on deehook, when you want to catch deefish.

Got em, Waste. Clever.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

You may be correct Winston. I have been agressive when it comes to defending the US, which could prevent my goal of trying to understand why others dislike the US. Thank you for pointing it out to me and I apologize to anyone offended by my defense of my country.
Hay, no problem. You love you country, as I love mine. I thank you for hearing what I was saying.


Wales?!


Nah just kidding. Wales rocks :rock:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

wastegate, if you really want to know why many people bash the US, its because of attitudes you have clearly shown in this thread. In many of your posts you have suggested that without your country, the rest of the world would go to hell. Its insulting to think that any people here from Britain, Germany or anywhere else in the world is your little bitch. Yes, okay, Europe has its problems, but so do you. So stay the hell away from dissing my continent and I'll stay away from dissing yours.

[Happy Times]

I dont think USA is flawless but what country is?
It surely has lots more good than bad.
It is a big reason we enjoy this western lifestyle, but i would remind that Europe has done its share of innovation.
It isnt a nation state and its founding explains the American values that are little bit different.
Not wrong, different.
Only thing that annoys sometimes, is the lack of knowledge of Europe. And thinking that the living standards are somehow lower, when in reality they are in many places better.
But on the otherhand many Americans know more about Europe than i do of America.
I try to keep my mind open and hope that the connection between the continents would stay strong.
Dont we still all have a common culture?
How do you feel?

[STEED]

Will US bashing ever end on the GT forum

I voted for all the reasons as they are all possible.

No country is perfect and no one is perfect there for my my own strange logic the GT forum is not perfect.

Take my advice, drop your pants and slide on the ice. :D

[Torplexed]

Take my advice, drop your pants and slide on the ice. :D
We can't. Al Gore has got us feeling all guilty about our carbon buttprint. :oops:

[DeepIron]

Take my advice, drop your pants and slide on the ice. Would that ice be amorphous solid water, low density amophous ice, high density amophous ice, very high density amorphous ice or just your plain old hyperquenched glassy water?

Gads... :huh:

[Mikey_Wolf]

Waste_Gate, with all respect you appear from where I sit to have a chip on your shoulder.

As was pointed out before, America is not the only country that is despised by some nations, the only reason its got to you would appear to be because of how deep your patriotism runs. At any time, a country is little more than ground under your feet. Many people the world over could do well to remember that. Patriotism in my view is an illusion and a construct which can "pull the wool over our eyes" and can be a great excuse to not find ways to improve. A very conservative attitude indeed.

America has its flaws in abundance, having a huge military does not make you the bees knees its not about how many guns you have, not anymore, the world has at least attempted to move on from there, but if that is how you feel "oh we'll take our toys and go home. See how you fare without us." Then, if I were a ruler, my attitude would be "suit yourself". No one country has a right to call the shots and lay down the law to others.

I like America its a fantastic place with many accomplishments, but to expect to be adored and awed by everybody all the time, its just not going to happen mate. If you really want the hornets to keep away from you, ya don't poke the hive with a stick. Which you've pretty much done here. Unintentionally as you say.

[Fish]

What do you think? Will the jealousy ever end?

.

Why should I be jealous in the first place? :shifty:

[lesrae]

Why should I be jealous in the first place? :shifty:

Pretty much what I was thinking.

[Linton]

It will not be long before this thread gets closed!http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/Gifs/bomb_with_fuse_sm_wht.gif

[STEED]

It will not be long before this thread gets closed!http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/Gifs/bomb_with_fuse_sm_wht.gif

KABOOM :dead:

[Iceman]

It depends on how one would define 'bashing'. If you mean expressing an opinion on current United States policy then as long as it worded in a thoughtful and non-insulting way then it should be fine. However, anyone who verbally attacks any country using foolish generalisations obliviously steps way out of line.
I live in Wales myself and enjoy quite a good western lifestyle. I get to do a lot of things thus I can say I'm not jealous of the United States. I think most people living in the western world would honestly tell you they are not jealous either. Most Europeans will probably have quite different views on a lot of topics then people in the United States and thus will often find themselves erupting in debate.


If I may Waste Gate I'd like to ask why you used the word jealousy? Personally if I were to look more closely at the term I might be slightly insulted myself that you'd think I'd be jealous. I'd ask myself, “Dose he think that I'd be jealous because he believes I'm worse off then the average United States citizen as I happen to live in Wales?”


Might I venture the question. Why dose it seem that there is so much 'resentment' to the United States? Might I then suggest that you review each releasable response you receive and think about these different point of view. Put yourself in there shoes and perhaps you might understand how and why there is resentment out there.


p.s. I did not vote by the way as I have no resentment toward the American people.

What a great post...bravo bravo.

This is the definition of "understanding".

Walk a mile in another mans shoes truly....to understand the mind of the muslim, the jew, the christian, the athesist....wow. great post. ...when you do, do that you do begin to understand.:up:

Proverbs 2

[1] My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
[2] So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
[3] Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
[4] If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
[5] Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
[6] For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
[7] He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
[8] He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.
[9] Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
[10] When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
[11] Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:
[12] To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;
[13] Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;
[14] Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;
[15] Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths:
[16] To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
[17] Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
[18] For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.
[19] None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
[20] That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.
[21] For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
[22] But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

[Fish]

Weren`t you in the brig recently?

Yeah, but at least he got three hot meals and a bed there.

No waterboarding?

[Hakahura]

BTW

The UK designed and built its first Fission Bomb completely without US help, due to a US embargo in the late 40's early 50's on sharing nuclear technology with anyone (McMahon Act). This situation was later reversed. Kind of ironic though when you think that information passed by the UK during WWII (Maud Committee) was partly responsible for the sucess of the Manhatten Project.



US bashing..... ?
Grow up and stop being insecure.

That's about the 60th post I've seen on the entire Internet today that's tried to steal an invention from the US.

Assuming that you don't like that statement, consider everything else the United States has given the world:

- The airplane
- The lightbulb
- The telephone
- The telegraph
- The machine gun
- The coffee pot
- The sewing machine
- The revolver
- The repeating rifle
- The burglar alarm
- The hearing aid
- The camera
- Frozen food
- The first nuclear submarine
- The laser
- The calculator
-THE INTERNET

And many other things...

By the way, the Atomic Bomb is technically an American invention...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb#History (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bomb#History)

I was not trying to steal a US Invention.
Where in my original post did I claim otherwise?

Correct the Manhatten project was a US project. However other countries had an input which contributed to its success. Don't believe me do some research. Not just read wikipedia, which does incidently credit the UK, Canada and displaced German scientists amongst others as being part of the Manhatten project.

If you quoted my entire post you would see I was trying to correct wastegate's error in stating that the US owned the UK's nuclear weapons.

[Hakahura]

Getting back on topic.....

Had a thought about waste gate's original question. Whilst I stand by my earlier comment "stop beging so insecure" I have another thought.

I would agree that around the world the US is pretty unpopular these days.
But then so has every "superpower" that has preceded it.
IMHO one of the few historical constants is the rise and fall of empires. And when your on top you have to accept that not many people are going to like you, especially if you like throwing your weight around. Was the UK popular when it had an empire? Were people happy being raped and pillaged by Gengis Khan's crew? How many nations were big on being conquered by the Romans?
As they say in America..... "It goes with the territory".
Don't worry at some point, as with all superpowers the US will fall and then it will be somebody else's turn.

[lesrae]

Assuming that you don't like that statement, consider everything else the United States has given the world:

- The airplane
- The lightbulb
- The telephone
- The telegraph
- The machine gun
- The coffee pot
- The sewing machine
- The revolver
- The repeating rifle
- The burglar alarm
- The hearing aid
- The camera
- Frozen food
- The first nuclear submarine
- The laser
- The calculator



I'm intrigued as to where you got that list mate, to my knowledge the sewing machine was German and the light bulb English, although I haven't checked these recently :D

Perhaps it's just the Scottish engineer in me being a pedant, everyone knows the Scots invented everything ;)

[Hakahura]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

[lesrae]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

You're probably right, the Englishman I remember is Humphry Davy, credited with electric light, but not putting it in a glass bulb.

My apologies for doubting, and also for straying further off topic :oops:

[Hakahura]

Sewing Machines a bit more complicated.

http://inventors.about.com/od/sstartinventions/a/sewing_machine.htm

This artical claims a German registered the first patent, but the French built the first working model just beating the US by 4 years.

[Chock]

It's hardly surprising that the US is way ahead on inventors, particularly in the 'golden age' of such things, as most of them would have been immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants, within two or three generations. Most people of that ilk have the necessary drive to get off their asses and seek a better life, or had parents who instilled such values in them. With that kind of personality, it seems obvious that they would be 'problem solvers', especially with the US being seen as 'the land of opportunity'.

:D Chock

[antikristuseke]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

Eddison made the first practical lightbulb, not the first lightbulb.
Warren de la Rue, an Englishman, was the first to enclose a coil in a vacum tube so effectively being the first lightbulb.

[Hakahura]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

Eddison made the first practical lightbulb, not the first lightbulb.
Warren de la Rue, an Englishman, was the first to enclose a coil in a vacum tube so effectively being the first lightbulb.

:o :oops:
1820 long before Eddison.
I stand corrected.

I'm going to have to start checking Stealth Hunters list.
I'm certain he is right about the Nautilus though:up:

[Stealth Hunter]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

Eddison made the first practical lightbulb, not the first lightbulb.
Warren de la Rue, an Englishman, was the first to enclose a coil in a vacum tube so effectively being the first lightbulb.

If you look through the science books, you don't ever hear the name "Warren de la Rue".

In short, he may have, but Edision is still going to be remembered for it.

[Letum]

[quote=Hakahura]
Assuming that you don't like that statement, consider everything else the United States has given the world:

- The airplane
- The lightbulb
- The telephone
- The telegraph
- The machine gun
- The coffee pot
- The sewing machine
- The revolver
- The repeating rifle
- The burglar alarm
- The hearing aid
- The camera
- Frozen food
- The first nuclear submarine
- The laser
- The calculator

The aeroplane was not invented in America!

They just built the first one and then decided to spell it incorrectly.

If I invent a engine that runs on beer, but if Jo Spanners builds the first one; I still invented it and gave it to the world!


Of course, you could say that implementation of the idea was invented in America, but
again this is wrong as both English and German glider builder had written about, and thus
invented, the idea of fixing a combustion motor onto a deformable aerofoil beforehand.


In short:
Invention is the forming of original ideas.

Neither the concept of the aeroplane, nor any single aspect of it's practical
implementation
was an original idea when the first aeroplane was built.

Thus, the construction of the first aeroplane and the invention of the first aeroplane where
two separate events.

America no more "gave the world" the aeroplane, than Jo Spanners gave the world the
beer engine that I invented.



Please note: I have not invented a beer engine, however I have invented the concept of a beer engine.


*edit*
I just made this post as a little joke to amuse my self. I dont seriously belive any of it, but all the same, I'm suprised how much sense it made!

[Hakahura]

Stealth Hunters list...

- The airplane 1903 USA
- The lightbulb 1820 UK
- The telephone 1876 USA/Scotland ish (Bell was born in Scotland and became a US citizen in 1874)
- The telegraph 1844 USA
- The machine gun 1881 USA
- The coffee pot 1822 France
- The sewing machine 1830 France
- The revolver 1835 USA
- The repeating rifle 1860 USA
- The burglar alarm ? ? No way is breeding dogs an American invention:rotfl:
- The hearing aid 1898 USA
- The camera 1837 France
- Frozen food 1886 USA
- The first nuclear submarine 1954 USA
- The laser 1959 USA
- The calculator 1885 USA
- The internet 1969 USA

Pretty good. IMHO he got most of them right.
Anyone disagree?

[Letum]

Stealth Hunters list...

- The airplane 1903 USA
- The lightbulb 1820 UK
- The telephone 1876 USA/Scotland ish (Bell was born in Scotland and became a US citizen in 1874)
- The telegraph 1844 USA
- The machine gun 1881 USA
- The coffee pot 1822 France
- The sewing machine 1830 France
- The revolver 1835 USA
- The repeating rifle 1860 USA
- The burglar alarm ? ? No way is breeding dogs an American invention:rotfl:
- The hearing aid 1898 USA
- The camera 1837 France
- Frozen food 1886 USA
- The first nuclear submarine 1954 USA
- The laser 1959 USA
- The calculator 1885 USA
- The internet 1969 USA

Pretty good. IMHO he got most of them right.
Anyone disagree?
Yes, the list is more or less right, although a few are ambiguous, if not subjective.
It is totally academic and not a good way to measure a country's inventiveness.

The Internet depends on your definition of "Internet". There are several definitions,
each with different inventors.

Just to be pedantic....

The hearing aid should be amended to "the electronic hearing aid".

The calculator has definition problems and the lines from manual, mechanical and
electronical are blurred.

Frozen food is a ancient invention, it is only different methods of freezing that have been invented since.

The camera depends on definition.

The laser is hard to pin down a date for. America 1960 might be better than 1959 or perhaps 1939. The first laser that could stay on for longer than a quick pulse was made by an Iranian interestingly.


America certainly gave up the repeating rifle, machine gun and revolver......
Nice one America....;)
http://www.bri-sparks.co.uk/users/www.bri-sparks.co.uk/upload/digital_poppy_medium.gif

[Reaves]

Will the jealousy ever end? That's presumptive...:shifty:
What other reason can you think of?

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

Personally I feel the same need to bash the USA as any other country that isn't Australia, let's face it, compared to us you're just second best.

:p

[Reaves]

(http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=MUH&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=penicillin&spell=1) Penicillin and the wine cask. You can keep your war machines and stuff, we save lives and transport wine in devices which can later be used as a pillow.

[Stealth Hunter]

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

Personally I feel the same need to bash the USA as any other country that isn't Australia, let's face it, compared to us you're just second best.

:p

Go ahead and bash away. Why the Hell do we care? We don't want to live in Australia. It's hot, infested with mice, and was once a prison colony; plus, it has tons and tons of animals that can kill you in seconds. Keep it. You're doing us a favor.

EDIT: Don't forget the aborigines.

[Reaves]

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

Personally I feel the same need to bash the USA as any other country that isn't Australia, let's face it, compared to us you're just second best.

:p
Go ahead and bash away. Why the Hell do we care? We don't want to live in Austrailia. It's hot, infested with mice, and was once a prison colony; plus, it has tons and tons of animals that can kill you in seconds. Keep it. You're doing us a favor.

Was once a prison colony? More honour in that then having the foundations of my nation built by SLAVE LABOUR.

Oh but please continue Mr fraidy cat who is scared of mice.

:rotfl:

[Torplexed]

There probably once was a time decades ago when people thought everyday communication between people of different nations would result in better understanding and harmony among nations.:hmm:

Nope. Just childish taunts, rants and insults. Hooray for the internet.

[Chock]

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'


I don't think that is the arrogance people think it is. I was under the impression that the 'world series' was called that because it was originally sponsored by 'The World' newspaper, wasn't it?

Incidentally, the 'airplane' or aeroplane if you prefer, was not invented in 1903, that was the first manned flight by a heavier than air powered aircraft, by Orville and Wilbur Wright, the first aeroplanes were flown years before that in a number of countries, Sir George Cayley in 1804 being one example.

:D Chock

[Reaves]

There probably once was a time decades ago when people thought everyday communication between people of different nations would result in better understanding and harmony among nations.:hmm:

Nope. Just childish taunts, rants and insults. Hooray for the internet.

Only when it comes to football codes imo. Personally i've talked to heaps of people from Europe and America (including Canada and some weird South American countries) and learn a lot about other nations. Food in particular. Dutch people for example are pretty cool and talk funny. :yep:

[P_Funk]

...consider everything else the United States has given the world.... I think that sums up how thing are. Whatever your point of view on the US you can look at that sentense and affirm your feelings with it.

What I see in this thesis about America bashing is a fundamental failure of logic. It is assumed that any critical eye towards the US is not about a reasonable disagreement but rather about an emotional envy. This reminds me of everytime the hardliners disagree with socialism on this board. Its not that socialism can't work, its that the motives for wanting it are ignoble! This isn't about facts. This is about a propogandistic style of thought. The 'with us or a'gin us' idea. It simplifies the nature of nations and geo-politics into something that should be more like bible study than social studies.

The second flaw in the logic is that there is no distinction made between criticizing American policy and America as an abstract symbol or nation. If I disagree with policies in the Middle East I hate freedom, the constitution, white people, christians, babies that live in Wisconsin, methodists from Texas, and the stars and stripes. You're the one that goes on and on about the evils of government WG, yet apparently when I don't like what your evil federal government does I'm 'bashing'.

It doesn't make sense because the same emotional accusation made against critical opponents of American policies or behavior feeds those who make the argument. We're all envious of America... why? Cause we owe so much to them! We're all a bunch of ingrates. You see it all the time. Implying that our own nations are not as important. This option in the poll is particularly enlightening as to this argument:
Yes, my country will become more relevent in the world

So what do I really think ? Within America itself its a wonderful place, mostly. They have the greatest constitution in the world. A true symbol for democracy everywhere. However America's external policies are no different than any empire before it. Failing to see the parallels in the policies and the apparent blind spots about American atrocities in regard to toppling free societies leaves me with little hope for real discourse on the subject with anyone other than those that already agree with me. Democracy within America is great, but where the boots hit the ground they might as well be wearing Red Coats instead of MARPAT.

EDIT. Also I didn't vote in the poll because none of the options left me with the choice of saying bashing isn't actually whats happening.

[Hakahura]

As P_Funk said it's not really bashing.

I would agree that around the world the US is pretty unpopular these days.
But then so has every "superpower" that has preceded it.

IMHO one of the few historical constants is the rise and fall of empires.
When your on top you have to accept that not many people are going to like you, especially if you like throwing your weight around (What superpower hasn't?).
Was the UK popular when it had an empire? Were people happy being raped and pillaged by Gengis Khan's crew? How many nations were big on being conquered by the Romans?

As they say in America..... "It goes with the territory".

Don't worry at some point, as with all superpowers, the US will lose it's dominance and fall.
Then it will be somebody else's turn. They too will feel like the whole world is bashing them.

[antikristuseke]

I think he's right with the lightbulb.
Thomas Eddison, USA

Eddison made the first practical lightbulb, not the first lightbulb.
Warren de la Rue, an Englishman, was the first to enclose a coil in a vacum tube so effectively being the first lightbulb.

If you look through the science books, you don't ever hear the name "Warren de la Rue".

In short, he may have, but Edision is still going to be remembered for it.

In that case the science books are written by people who dont know what they are writing about, i dotn really see that as an exucse for calling the light bulb an america invention.

[waste gate]

Based on the view numbers this thread has touched a cord. I'd like to thank everyone for participating, both in the poll and any comments you have posted.

Honestly, I'm a bit concerned by those of you who voted for every option. Especially those of you who did so without any comment.

The Poll goes on for a few more days and I'm starting to get a handle on what the board is thinking. I may post another poll thread with different questions, trying to get more to the heart of the matter.

Again thanks to all!!

wg

[Stealth Hunter]

Haha it's that type of arrogance which causes people to think little of Yanks. - hahah 'world series'

Personally I feel the same need to bash the USA as any other country that isn't Australia, let's face it, compared to us you're just second best.

:p
Go ahead and bash away. Why the Hell do we care? We don't want to live in Australia. It's hot, infested with mice, and was once a prison colony; plus, it has tons and tons of animals that can kill you in seconds. Keep it. You're doing us a favor.

Was once a prison colony? More honour in that then having the foundations of my nation built by SLAVE LABOUR.

Oh but please continue Mr fraidy cat who is scared of mice.

:rotfl:

Aborigines...

Prison colonies are nothing to be proud of, they're just admittance that you had a huge crime rate at one point.

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States (they had documents and claimed they did, but indentured servants were basically the legal slave; they did whatever you said, and they were stuck in your service until you allowed them to go).

Continue, shall we?:rotfl:

[baggygreen]

Yes, continue we shall! http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123087

:rotfl:

technically, our crime rate wasnt too high, it was the british crime rate that was high! Can you see the irony of it all though? "As punishment, you are banished from dark, dreary 19th century England to bright, sunny, warm penal colonies". WOOHOO!:rotfl:

I could go on with great things about here, but i think the thread above shows it pretty damn well :lol:

[Reaves]

Aborigines...

Prison colonies are nothing to be proud of, they're just admittance that you had a huge crime rate at one point.

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States (they had documents and claimed they did, but indentured servants were basically the legal slave; they did whatever you said, and they were stuck in your service until you allowed them to go).

Continue, shall we?:rotfl:
Aboringines? Here, have some blankets..........

I've been to the USA, it's a nice place.

And What does England having slaves have anything to do with Australia? You said my country was started by prisoners, I said yours was made by slaves, it's pretty similar imo especially since most of the so called prisoner's only crime was stealing food, but yeah I guess they should have just hung them.

I don't need to continue, i'm as patriotic as anyone is about their country. I love my home and will always see it above any other piece of dirt. I'm not about to call you a fool for doing the same to your home... That's what my intial post was sort of saying.

The fact is though (and thread topic), globally the USA has a bad reputation for delusions of self importance and arrogance. Do you want to give me a reason to begin thinking like that or something?

[Chock]

By the way, England never really abolished the slavery deal (that's including the indentured servants) until long after the United States

So what was all that segregation stuff that Martin Luther King was complaining about then? Or did he really have a dream?

Incidentally, in the main city nearest to me (Manchester, Northern England), there is a square right opposite the newspaper office where I used to work. It's called Lincoln Square, and it has a statue of Abraham Lincoln in the middle of it. If you read the bronze plaque on the bottom of it, you find it is a reproduction of the text from an open letter of thanks from Abraham Lincoln to the mill workers of the North West of England for helping in the fight to abolish slavery. The mill workers, despite their actions leading to extreme privation and hardship, walked out of the mills and refused to work because the mills were providing materials to the Confederates, the Union's blockade of the South hit them badly too, but they still supported the Union's actions all the same. Not bad for a bunch of indentured people who supposedly did what they were told to do eh?

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic3/68.html

http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/usindex.html

Not trying to stoke the fire here incidentally, just pointing something out that not many people seem to know about.

:D Chock

[Sailor Steve]

Wow, Chock, that is AWESOME! You know how I love history, and this is the first I ever heard of that one. Thanks!:rock:

Oh, and I agree about the aeroplane. Wilbur Wright himself wrote to Samuel Langley, then curator of the Smithsonian Institution, asking for information about previous experiments. He stated that they wanted to learn everything they could before beginning their own experiments, including the flying models built by Langley himself. Most scientists and inventors don't work in a vacuum. On the other hand, in 1908 even Santos-Dumont was only flying long distances in a straight line. They were all amazed at Reims when Wilber flew in a figure 8 and stayed aloft for the better part of an hour.

[Stealth Hunter]

I don't believe half the crap about Australia I said, Reeves. I just felt the need to go a trollin'.:arrgh!: :rotfl:

Oh, I didn't say that it WAS started by prisoners, I said it was started FOR prisoners.

[Reaves]

I don't believe half the crap about Australia I said, Reeves. I just felt the need to go a trollin'.:arrgh!: :rotfl:

Oh, I didn't say that it WAS started by prisoners, I said it was started FOR prisoners.

You spell my name wrong again and I'll flame you for the rest of your life. ;)

[Letum]

On the airoplane thing.....

Who was the first to construct a successful unmanned heavier-than-air, powered aircraft?

[Reaves]

On the airoplane thing.....

Who was the first to construct a successful unmanned heavier-than-air, powered aircraft?


Me.


I remember it as if it was yesterday. My friend Sessle and I had been ready to launch for a week but the weather kept delaying the launch. When we finally got it airborn there was quite excitement I can assure you by gosh.


:o

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Yeah well we colonised you Yanks and without us, you'd still be running around in loincloths throwing spears at the invading Mexicans. ;)

[joea]

Yeah well we colonised you Yanks and without us, you'd still be running around in loincloths throwing spears at the invading Mexicans. ;)

Uhhh the Yanks were you guys til they decided to ...well dump tea and become Yanks. We (Canucks), even the French speaking ones, decided to remain with the tea drinkers...though we preferred beer. :p

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Yeah well we colonised you Yanks and without us, you'd still be running around in loincloths throwing spears at the invading Mexicans. ;)
Uhhh the Yanks were you guys til they decided to ...well dump tea and become Yanks. We (Canucks), even the French speaking ones, decided to remain with the tea drinkers...though we preferred beer. :p


Yeah you've got people living in your country who think they're French. What's that tell you :rotfl: