why do you like sh3 so much [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

flag4

10-31-07, 11:18 AM

:o hi hunters

i was wondering why i like sh3 so much - as i was getting battered the other night off the north west coast of ireland.
i felt, what i only can describe as, real concern for my virtual crew. does this make sense or am i, as my friend described me, a sad bast*%#
i dont know and care even less. and yet there it was - real concern for a virtual fictional crew .

i have read over the years plenty on the u-boat war, watched doco's on telly, dvd's too bought and borrowed. recorded things from the radio and telly, followed websites, watched, the other night, 'u-boots westwards' on google. not forgetting the unputdownable 'shadow divers.'
i supose with hindsight, the war in the atlantic was doomed from the begining - even with the patriotic cammoraderie of the crews and those who helped them. i dont think they really stood a chance. clay blairs two volume history expalins that very well.

so, for me, maybe something of the doomed heroism these men displayed - the enevitable tragedy of it all: they didnt really get the support they deserved.
but all this still does'nt expalin why i like it so much.
it takes hours and days to play, it gives me a bad back, i squint at the screen to see, i lean in to the hydrophones to listen at "All Stop."
i ignore callls of "dont forget to bring the washing in when it rains !!"
" can i have some help in the kitchen ?"
" your children are on the road !!"

it goes on.
i'm still not that good at it. can't do manual mapping and torpedo's and stuff, take risks when i'm tired and get blown to hell, drink too much coffee on a sunday when it's an 'all-dayer'
dont have a shower 'till 4 in the afternoon.....

it goes on.

so, i was just wondering what it ist like for others, who are quietly obsessed...

any thoughts are welcome

flag4

Iron Budokan

10-31-07, 02:05 PM

It's the immersion and the gameplay for me that keeps this one front and center.

Slang

10-31-07, 02:14 PM

I suppose its for the realism and the challenge that it brings. Achieving goals and doing things the way they were really done in real life. I've never been too big on any game that wasn't at least based in reality.

Now with all the mods out SH3 can really shine.

I think alot of people feel that SH3 simulates them being the captain of the boat and thats it. I tend to think that it lets me simulate being a whole bunch of different crew members on the U-boat. I can play as the deck gun crew, the AA gunner, the weapons officer, and hydrophone operator. Just the other day I finally got around to modding my game files so I can't see my boat on the nav chart. Now I get to play as the navigator too. Figuring out were we are and having a margin of error increases the challenge even more.

I think everybody should play SH3 in the way that brings the most enjoyment for them. But for me a successful 30k ton patrol on high realism is much more satisfying than a 90k ton patrol on arcade settings.

Thats why I like SH3.

Sailor Steve

10-31-07, 02:20 PM

I grew up in the 1950s, when the war was still fresh in everybody's minds. I saw the movies and read the books, and played the board games from an early age.

I've loved WW2 subsims from the beginning. I don't care what country it is, I just like the boats. Played Silent Service, Aces Of the Deep and Silent Hunter. For me SH3 is only better than its predecessors in one respect: the immersion. Having a 3D interior and crew surrounding me makes it feel more real, otherwise I'd just stick to the old sims. Oh, and having new, realistic looking ships come along all the time doesn't hurt, either.

Bismarck

10-31-07, 02:25 PM

I just keep trying to look after my virtual crew. If one sailor dies i am grieved. :cry:

STEED

10-31-07, 02:25 PM

You tell me. :-?

von hally

10-31-07, 02:36 PM

well, well ,well

its good to know there are other sad b****** out there just like me !!

ive played many wwII games on the pc....but nothing like this!
i too know the feeling of the sore back, eyes and eventually ears (as my girlfriend reminds me ive been here for the last four hours) but man its worth it. theres no other game that keeps me coming back for more than silent hunter....i know that illusion is the key ingredient in any sim but i have to admit that i fall for it in sh3....that swaying ocean around my boat really gives me the felling of a mutch larger world, while i know in reality im fast forwarding time till a contact is made and i let it pass my scope and attack, but its everything else that goes with it thats amazing...the growing realisation that the game was deeper than i ever imagined possible was brilliant..even in stock sh3....i happened to give my sonar man a radio qualification and seen his efficiency treble!!!. that among other things is when i began to notice how very good this sim was... this was before i even knew about this great community here and the supreme grey wolves mod, which by the way has opened up a whole new game for me....just as i was getting a little tired of stock sh3. i too dont use the manuall targeting option, but i know when i do eventually get round to learning it...a whole new chapter in sh3 will begin...it doesnt get any better than this!!
i myself cant find the same passion for sh4 ( i havent bought it)....maybe as u said, its the doomed heroism, the eventual historic outcome of this conflict and the knowlege ure ze enemy that keeps me inthralled!
basically i could go on all day...but probably wont find the words to exactly encapture the reason sh3 will be running silent and deep on my pc for a long time yet
p.s big thanx to all the guys who add these mods, there work is amazing!!1:up: :up: :up: :up:

Chock

10-31-07, 02:44 PM

I think there are a lot of reasons. I like all sub sims, but the German subs of WW2 are a particular interest, as are Cold War Russian subs, so I think that might mean that, like in movies, I find the 'bad guys' more interesting (that's not meant to be an insult to Russians by the way, or Germans for that matter, I just mean in terms of having grown up in the post WW2 Cold War and having that point of view rammed down my throat for years).

Also like in the movies, the bad guys tend to have all the cool looking stuff, and ironically enough, that seems to be the case with both the Germans and the Russians. I think the German WW2 subs just look a lot better and had some more interesting weaponry and defensive conceptual stuff such as radar absorbent covering material and programmable torpedoes etc.

That goes for the land forces and air forces too - a Spitfire is a pretty aeroplane, but a Ju-87 Stuka looks like it would kick your dog to death and laugh afterwards, it looks like a warplane with its angular shape and jagged camouflage. The Tiger and Panther tanks had all that anti-magnetic zimmerit paste on them and interesting paint schemes in comparison to allied stuff with a quick spray of olive drab. That's the case with Russian subs too, I mean we all know the LA Class sub is great, but the Akula and Alpha look a lot more groovy and mean.

Compare it to a sci-fi concept if you like, the X-Wing is okay, but the TIE fighter looks waaaay cooler and has that mean howl, not unlike a Stuka's siren (incidentally fact fans, the TIE fighter noise is in fact an elephant 's call slowed down and messed about with).

I like the bad guy's stuff.

:D Chock

Rykaird

10-31-07, 02:51 PM

For me, SH3 isn't a sub sim, it's an RPG.

From the photo I use in SH3 Commander, to knowing the names of my crewmen, to swearing "Verdamnt!" under my breath when a wave goes over the periscope right when I'm going to shoot, the immersive elements of the game make playing SH3 as an RPG very easy.

That's why I like the Captain's Cabin - I lay there at 128TC, listening to old German music from the 30's and 40's on the grammophone, waiting for my sonarman to shout out a contact. It just feels right.

And as in any RPG, the character you play must be interesting. And what could be more fun than RPing a U-Boat Captain? You know you're doomed, you and your crew are mostly likely going to die, your leaders are madmen - but you're a soldier, your homeland is being bombed to bits, and so you carry on, despite the horror, the death, the stink, the fear.

It is this last element - the U-Boat skipper element of the RPG - that keeps me in SH3 and not in SH4. Nothing wrong with that game, and this isn't a comment on the valour or contribution of real US skippers, but for me a U-boat captain is just more interesting to roleplay. Probably the doom factor, plus the shades of grey in the morality.

Jimbuna

10-31-07, 03:17 PM

SH3 (with GWX) of course, is the best sub sim I've played :rock:

I hope I can say that of SH4 as well in the not too distant future :yep:

flag4

10-31-07, 04:32 PM

hi hunters

i like what i'm reading from you's out there. it's interesting to know what makes it tick for others.

also, and a big also, i like the fact that i can play as the german. it's such a relief not to HAVE to be the u.s.a. i also think that a sim like the Sturmovik games got it right by alowing the choice for any side to take part: i flew for Finland too !!

i'd love to see a russian silent hunter - somewhere in the arctic territories. imagine the music and voices and languages, the way the subs looked, the scenery.

we've returned to the americans again in sh4, wich is fare enough - just does'nt quite grab it for me though.
i have it ready for some point in the future, but for now i'm immerced in No.3

flag4

BulSoldier

10-31-07, 05:57 PM

Well i almost didnt played simulators of any kind before,but then i finnaly bought i pc that can run the game (my old one is stugling just to use firefox :yep: ) i installed it and was amazed.Soon it began boring me but when i incidently discovered this great forum and the incredible community and mod it really bring a whole new game.And it was much better game.

This game really show a part of real captains though noone exept them could tell what is like to hear explosions when you are 200 meters below surface of water in a stell can.I play at 100 cause i realy like it that way,it isnt easy but i think i have some strange skill to find some strange ways to go away from the hunters.
I play only at night,during the day sun is too bright to play especially at night(in the game) and i dont like when its sunny to close everything like a prison.I use headphones and i really get scared when some unexpeted explosions happens, like someone says ship spotted and a second later the sub get struck by the shells.

And i must tell everyone that better use the manual targeting system,yes it may be sometimes really hard and almost imposible to get even something like a solution but it makes you think other ways to hit the target.I never used the automatic (exept in the begining to undestand the basics) and i think the strugle to undestand it only by practicing and learning your mystakes really make the game even better (though in real life mystakes was equal to death).

So in the end i just would say i play it because it makes me feel part of something that nowday people cant experience other way.And one more thing,thank you all who are here and sharing your fun and interesting experience with everything here:up:

U49

10-31-07, 06:25 PM

I can still remember the day of Red storm rising on my C64.... fascinating... I spend whole days in fromt of it.... yeees....
Ans suddenly I had this feeling with Aces of the deep , whow!
And now I have SH3 :D

Is it the mercyless cold stormy brutal dark ..blabla..polemic...blabla north atlantic?

The storyline, the atmosphere and the point that it is new, everytime I play it,...maybe that are the fascinating items.

See my signature for my favorite add-ons to make it more entertaining

Torplexed

10-31-07, 07:30 PM

Rykaird

10-31-07, 07:36 PM

Why do I like Sh3....or 4 for that matter?

Because this was the state of the art subsim I grew up with as a kid. Getting DCed by your kid sister makes frame rate issues seem like a trival pusuit. :p

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Potpourri%20Page/g-subsearch1.jpg

Oh, man, I had forgotten all about this game. I had it also. Thanks for reviving those long lost, martini soaked brain cells.

Torplexed

10-31-07, 07:41 PM

Oh, man, I had forgotten all about this game. I had it also. Thanks for reviving those long lost, martini soaked brain cells.
I think what I hated most about that game most was that yellow plastic spinner shaped like a torpedo that you used to determine hits. It always missed. Musta been based on the USN Mark 14 circa 1942. ;)

Canovaro

11-01-07, 02:40 AM

My thoughts:
The good thing about the game is that you keep learning no matter how often you play it.

Fenris_Wolf

11-01-07, 03:01 AM

- So many great challenges. Getting depth charged often > never finding a destroyer.
- So many planes and flak guns! Reknown finding you instead? How fortuitous.
- Freedom of choice in the tactical operation of your boat.
- Variety in choice and in upgrading the boat and crew advancement.
- Your personal preferences as skipper / Roleplaying.
- Immersion and this one is important. So many great mods customize and make this game all it is today.
- The feeling that you're "sticking it out" or "going down on a sinking ship" because you know (even virtually) you're losing the war but you're not humbled -- that's valour! :rock:
- Last but not least -- Sinking tommies! :D

Ivan Putski

11-01-07, 02:55 PM

It`s the challenge, and a break from flight sims that appeals to me.

RICH12ACE

11-01-07, 06:13 PM

i like the captains cabin and the radio room etc etc......nice..:yep: it feels like you are in the sub!

skookum

11-01-07, 06:49 PM

I like hanging out on the bridge on a stormy day.

AdlerGrosmann

11-01-07, 11:39 PM

The reason why..I like everything about SH3. The realism, the intense feeling when you look around you in or out of the submarine. The sound of the thunder and the sight of the lightning that gets you the tingly feeling. The "ship spotted" when you feel ready for battle. It all feels right and realistic to me, the perfect game for me is SH3. My opinion is it's the best submarine & war game I have ever played in my life!:smug: Sink a ship or not, still its fun..the challenge, the adventures...the new things you see or you just realize, or that you know's coming.

Just get that feeling you know?:arrgh!: Whether the seas are rough or soft I will always be out there!

GoldenRivet

11-02-07, 01:17 AM

one thing that particularly attracts me to the U-boat war in the atlantic is that it was such a desparate battle, for both the axis and the allies. a classic arms race, the mania and legend of the u-boats ... one of the best ways i can describe it is as follows....

A merchant sailor is on watch on a full moon night... his lone ship hauling aviation fuel to the southern coast of England, blacked out, at full steam. He craves a cigarette but he knows that he shouldnt dare smoke. His friends told him to keep a sharp eye out... "there are more u-boats in these waters than there are sharks" they teased him. The sea is relatively calm, and there are but a few high cirrus clouds in the sky. As he gazes across an ocean that dances with a million little speckles of moon light he feels the cold north atlantic breeze stinging his face. He pulls the collar of his coat up... and through the mist of his breath he sees it.

he doesnt believe it but he sees it. Being his first time out in the war zone he really isnt sure what to do about it as he stands there on the starboard bow paralized in fear. a shaddow has crept through the moonlighted waters of the north atlantic. the sleek, thin shape moving fairly quickly yet cutting a small and stealthy wake.

As the shadow moves into the bright reflection of the full moon dancing on the water he can clearly see the conning tower now, a huddled mass of 4 or 5 men gathered tightly together... one of them peering through the UZO... probably looking directly into his soul through the lenses.

He opens his mouth to scream an alert to his fellow crew but his pounding heart threatens to leap straight from his mouth. Not even a puff of visible breath escapes his horrified lips.... like a bad dream - the kind where you cant run.

Only this is no dream. As the merchant sailor gains the ability to scream his warning, the silence of the night is pierced by a flash of fire and water. A great ball of flame belches from the opened belly of the tanker as its noxious guts spill out onto the sea like a slain beast.

Night becomes day, and for a fleeting moment as the sailor runs down the deck for his life, he can clearly see the bearded face of the U-boat commander peering coldly through the smoke and fire.

and that U-boat commander...

...is me.

Samwolf

11-02-07, 06:48 AM

I grew up in the 1950s, when the war was still fresh in everybody's minds. I saw the movies and read the books, and played the board games from an early age.

OMG!! We're living parallel lives!! Did you build models too?

SmokinTep

11-02-07, 06:51 AM

It has been patched and modded very nicely.

Samwolf

11-02-07, 06:55 AM

Why do I like Sh3....or 4 for that matter?

Because this was the state of the art subsim I grew up with as a kid. Getting DCed by your kid sister makes frame rate issues seem like a trival pusuit. :p

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/images/Potpourri%20Page/g-subsearch1.jpg

I played that and then upgraded to the State of the art Avalon hill U-Boat.

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic13244_md.jpg

Thanks for the memories.

codmander

11-02-07, 12:42 PM

Because I am a knotzee at heart zig hiel:cool:

StarTrekMike

11-02-07, 01:46 PM

I bought this game on a whim with only a very general intrest in the atlantic theater of WWII (I was more of a pacific surface ship buff)

When I played it I was so confused and had no idea what I was doing...but for the first time I was able to go find some books about historical U-Boat tactics and I could actually apply them to the game, I never had a game that I could apply real world information to.

This game has opened up a whole new level of WWII for me to research and understand.

plus I like the way they look...so menacing!

Michael Holmes

- U-1701

STEED

11-02-07, 02:51 PM

Better than a kick up the ass. :rotfl:

Long live SH3. :D

AngusJS

11-05-07, 06:11 AM

I love SH3, both unmodded and with GWX. When I finally got a computer that could run it, I played it for 6 months straight, until my career ended on a convoy attack near Iceland in 1942. I think that's the longest I have ever played a game.

I liked how I could do so many things manually. I acquired targets and set up attack runs manually - it was great. I loved using the drawing tools to figure out how I would intercept a target. Every attack, even on single merchant ships, was a challenge. The only other WW2 sub sims that I have played are Wolfpack and AOD. Though I played AOD forever, it eventually got boring, as you were almost guaranteed success against single ships, as everything was automatic. This never happened with SH3.

I also liked how you could man the hydrophone yourself. I remember one time I damaged a ship near England on a foggy night. I was forced to wait and load some more torpedoes, by which time the ship had vanished into the fog. I ended up spending an hour trying to find it again with the hydrophone. I finally found it, only to have my first two shots fail to detonate - I had forgotten to take into account the fact that the ship was already sitting low in the water, and the magnetic torpedo harmlessly hit the side of the hull, while the impact torpedo bounced off the rounded bottom. I love that level of detail.

It is SH3's ability to produce such memorable moments that makes it such a great game for me. I'm travelling now, so I don't have access to my computer, but as soon as I do, I know I'll be starting up a new career and setting sail. For me, it's one of the greatest games of all time.

Klaus_Doldinger

11-05-07, 09:23 AM

I like SHIII for various reasons.

First of all, I think that the combination SHIII+SH3Commander+GWX 1.03 is a totally different game from stock SHIII.

Second, because you can -if you like subs, specially german subs- play it as inmersive as you like, not only thanks to the game itself, but also for SH3Commander and GWX. You can know every member of your crew, you can acquire experience with them as missions pass...

Also I like the ending careers with SHIII Commander; you can be sent to command a office when you´re in the zenit of your career, but... that´s a order.

You can evaluate risks and take the adequate decision in every moment. Up to 1942, I´m proud to have survived in a lot of careers simply applying common sense, and not making temerary/stupid things. It´s very pleasant to have attacked a convoy -with more or less fortune, say you only hit a ship- and then slip unnoticed to the escorts... or in the worst case, to avoid them after one, two... three hours of being depthcharged and pinged, hearing the explosions more and more distant... One more time you and your crew have survived to a horrible "death".
Not to say the surprises you find -I always play without external camera- when you hit, say, one ship, hear one or two more explosions and emerge to see one or two merchants dead in the water waiting for your following torpedoes...

I like also that every missions can be different from the previous one. You can bore to death crossing two, three or five thousand NM without seeing a single ship (worse still, a neutral argentinian or irish "mini-convoy" plenty of big merchants and tankers) or... receive lots of convoy sightings, many times in the worst atmospheric conditions, making interceptions or attacks very difficult. And in every mission you can learn or put in practice the advertisements you read here or in other forums from more experienced players, from the simplest things to the most complex.

And also... I like to set TC x1, put a record on the gramophone, take a look to the last radio messages, and go to the bridge to look at the stars.

There are many reasons to enjoy with :yep: this game...

flag4

11-06-07, 12:21 PM

hi Klaus_Doldinger

WOW !!

you certainly know why you like it !!

wish i had your confidence and skill with the manual targetting - cause it ties me in knots :damn: !! .

cheers
flag4

STEED

11-06-07, 12:40 PM

SH3 offers you to get rid of your frustration and yell at the screen while you break wind and drink beer. :D

Klaus_Doldinger

11-06-07, 12:55 PM

hi Klaus_Doldinger

WOW !!

you certainly know why you like it !!

wish i had your confidence and skill with the manual targetting - cause it ties me in knots :damn: !! .

cheers
flag4

Try Joergrundman tools, they are a great help fot manual targeting. They need some practice, but are useful and also eye candy.:yep:

I must try also OLC interface...

Blacklight

11-06-07, 01:04 PM

I think for me, it's the incredible tension and emotion in me that this game generates. I find myself getting excited when I spot the first inklings of a ship/convoy/task force heading my way. Then there's the tension of tracking the prey without being seen... getting into just the right spot to take your shot.
Then there's more tension after you fire... as you wait several minutes hoping and praying that your calculations were correct ! Sometimes, when I hit a target, I feel like jumping out of my chair and shouting "YAHOOOOOO !!!" while tossing things in the air as the explosion kicks that plume of water into the air.
Then there is the opposite tension.. the tension of being the hunted. No other game scares the pants off me more than this game. You're diving for cover.. then you hear them approaching... their engines churning through the water.. getting closer.. closer... then.. there's that haunting "ping ! ping !" followed by the sound of their engines getting closer....closer.... then "Splash"... "Please god ! Don't let those depth charges be near me.. please... please...."
Then.. if you escape... there's that huge feeling of relief when you surface. You get to breathe easy... until you spot that British plane diving down on you...

:rock: This game is an emotional roller coaster for me and I LOVE the ride.

BootsmanBoof

11-06-07, 02:01 PM

I bought the game in a bargain bin a few weeks back for AU$20, thought I'd check it out. WHOOOAAAH! Best 20 bucks I ever spent :D.

I recall in my teens being abandoned at the State Library by my parents for days on end at one period of time. I instantly gravitated to musty books about the U-boat war, details of each sub and their operations etc. I read these things for hours. I was fascinated, and awestruck at the bravery of the U-boat crews when casualty rates and the dangers were considered. A 75% death rate :o. What men! I didn't care that my grandparents generation thought of them as the "enemy" - the staunchness of the U-boat crews cannot be denied, despite the somewhat "dirty" nature of their operations. Total War was Total War for both sides.

So now, 20 years later, I have the opportunity to recreate this deadly period of history, without the danger of course.

I love the weather, the cruise, the mood, the chase and the hunt, and the exhilaration of a torp breaking a target's back. I like the tension of being pinged, the sounds of doomed vessels singing and creaking as they sink......in fact I like just about everything about it.

Best damned game ever - if only I'd discovered it a few years back....:damn:

Torplexed

11-06-07, 08:43 PM

I played that and then upgraded to the State of the art Avalon hill U-Boat.

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic13244_md.jpg

Thanks for the memories.
Wow! I've never seen a copy of U-Boat before. Very cool. Musta been one of their early titles. The old days of paper games before silicon came along.

I played Avalon Hill's Submarine. I wish I had kept my copy. Still probably the only game that let you play any nation's subs in WW2.

http://neptoon.homestead.com/SubmarineBoard.jpg

Jay Carlson

11-06-07, 10:10 PM

Why still playing, and loving it? Playing GWX, SH3Commander plus some skins. Thanks modders. I have yet to see 1945 DID. Even tried playing my first officers when sent to new boat and had three careers going at once. Now granted, I'm not playing as much as I could, but you have to love a game that you can't simply beat by putting in the hours. Just when I think I've learned all the stupid mistakes, then I forget to lower TC near England in heavy weather and get whacked by a destroyer. Or DC's for 4 hours by 3 DD's until my boat simply slides into the deep. Dive the wrong way after a torpedo shoot, with screws turning too fast, and the DD tracks me, hits me and forces me to turn off silent running to repair flooding. Bye bye. Or the worst - drinking brandy (not flavored), watching TV and listening to the wife when the Royal Airforce screams in from the clouds. So many lost crews due to my multitasking. So many ways to go.

In a way, I hope I never reach war's end. I'll feel like a finally beat the game. That's what brings me back over and over. When I beat the game, I'll buy SHIV.

Oh and Avalon Hill, SPI games and GDW. Still have a closet full of them. Geez I love those days.

Stealth Hunter

11-06-07, 11:17 PM

SHIV is all eye-candy and lag. SHIII wasn't the best (7/10'r), but mods have beefed it up to a 9.7 with exceptional graphics and sound.

Always did enjoy blowing tankers and destroyers in half, then watching them plunge to their doom.

:lost::gulp:

Blacklight

11-06-07, 11:59 PM

http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic13244_md.jpg

http://neptoon.homestead.com/SubmarineBoard.jpg

Man does this bring back memories. I have a copy of Submarine (which is the Avalon Hill reprint of U-Boat from 1976. U-Boat was originally published in 1959, so you have a real treasure there). Submarine holds up to this day as pretty much the best board simulation of U-boat warfare ever done and I still break it out to play on occasion. A close seccond would have to be Compas Games, Steel Wolves due to be released in 2008 which is basically an Atlantic version of their Silent War game (which is a fantastic and pretty damn accurate solo play submarine board game about the submarine war in the Pacific in WWII). hehe Can you tell I'm a bit of a board wargame buff ?:know: