View Full Version : Size Does Matter
Everybody knows the Fleet boats are bigger than the Sugar boat. Am curious as to see the actual size diffrence between the Sboat and a fleet boat, so I parked an Sboat beside a Balao class so I could see the actual differance. Wasn't at all suprised but was kinda neat to see how much boat the Japs would see if spotted on the surface or how much of a target yer offering Bongo Pete as he drops ashcans on top of your head. lol :D
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z93/dhuget/Sboat.jpg
Von Hinten
10-30-07, 04:55 AM
Interesting, the manual said it was roughly 30 meters longer but this makes much more sense. For me the biggest bonus the s-class still has is it's insane diving time.
Whenever I get a 'plane spotted' notification I can easily get the boat under before anything bad happens whereas with the Gato I had before even a crash dive sometimes wasn't quick enough.
I'm really happy with my sugar boat for the moment though there are times (for example when facing a huge task force like the other day :cry:) when I wished I had a little more, I don't know, 'umph' in there. :yep:
Size Does Matter
Oh yeh baby!!:lol:
Torplexed
10-30-07, 06:48 AM
Size Does Matter Oh yeh baby!!:lol:
I thought with subs, it was sur-prise that mattered. :hmm:
Rockin Robbins
10-30-07, 08:38 AM
I don't care if he admires my quick diving time after he's sporting six holes in his hull below the waterline! And then I'm sporting four loaded torpedoes in reserve. One reason U-Boats were not more effective is that they didn't carry enough firepower. Type IX skippers may yell now. :p I am not aware of any RL skippers who wouldn't trade a sugar boat for a fleet boat and leave all their belongings behind in their haste to make the trade.
I'll duck now....:lost:
Ducimus
10-30-07, 10:27 AM
I wish i remembered to grab the type 9D2 data files so i could import it in game and line it up next to a gato in a single mission. I could do that for a reuglar type 9, but the D2 was bigger.
Of course, this is assuming they are scaled the same in size.
seafarer
10-30-07, 10:29 AM
... Whenever I get a 'plane spotted' notification I can easily get the boat under before anything bad happens whereas with the Gato I had before even a crash dive sometimes wasn't quick enough. ...
err, "plane spotted"??? that's what SD radar is for? Never been damaged by aircraft in my Tench, Gato or Balao class boats - radar gives plenty of advance warning to dive (note, not even crash dive) to a safe depth.
Of course, if you prefer to toot around in your kiddie boat, that's okay with me :D When you're ready to join the real submariners, we might let you have one of the big boy boats :lol:
One other advantage to the pig boats is that for some reason, even thoughthey don't dive as deep, they are almost as tough as a Balao in terms of hitpoints, etc (tougher than the early fleet boats, in fact, by quite a lot). Seems wrong to me.
tater
Ducimus
10-30-07, 10:51 AM
I hate to be the one doing this, but someone was going to eventually, so it may as well be me. So heres a few screenshots of a Late war type 9b uboat, next to a prewar Tambor fleet boat. I think the scale on both sub models is the same, but i could be wrong.
(in any event, i think comparing late war 9D2' uboat to a late war Tambor or Gato would be a fairer comparision, in both dimension, and deck armament )
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_01.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_02.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_03.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_04.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_05.jpg
Of course, if you prefer to toot around in your kiddie boat, that's okay with me :D When you're ready to join the real submariners, we might let you have one of the big boy boats :lol:
:rotfl: lol, my Kiddie boat just recently had orders to do a Raboul Photo Recon of reported carrier activity,early 1943. Turned out to be 2 carriers very shallow water, close to shore.Took my photo and attacked carrier and sunk it, was however DC in extremly shallow water , no damge done to my kiddie boat, makes me wonder though! how one would have faired in one of the Big Boy Boats, :arrgh!:
Ducimus : Am I missing something, the 1st photo{Down View} Uboat looks shorter, but in the second photo (side view] Uboat looks longer.
Steeltrap
10-30-07, 11:18 AM
Being closer, the u-boat will take up more lateral visual width per metre than an object behind it. This is why it 'appears' longer. Note also that some of the stern of the fleet boat is actually below the water, or near enough.
If you were to take that same shot with the fleet boat first in view, you wouldn't even see the u-boat!
Fleet boats were whales compared with u-boats (type VII in particular), but they were - as has been said ad infinitum - built for a dramatically different theatre. That extra size was handy for comfort and packing away a lot of ammo and stores.
seafarer
10-30-07, 11:29 AM
Of course, if you prefer to toot around in your kiddie boat, that's okay with me :D When you're ready to join the real submariners, we might let you have one of the big boy boats :lol:
:rotfl: lol, my Kiddie boat just recently had orders to do a Raboul Photo Recon of reported carrier activity,early 1943. Turned out to be 2 carriers very shallow water, close to shore.Took my photo and attacked carrier and sunk it, was however DC in extremly shallow water , no damge done to my kiddie boat, makes me wonder though! how one would have faired in one of the Big Boy Boats, :arrgh!:
Ducimus : Am I missing something, the 1st photo{Down View} Uboat looks shorter, but in the second photo (side view] Uboat looks longer.
:roll: Well, of course, the kiddie boats are best for playing in the shallow end of the pool! :lol:
Fleet boats were whales compared with u-boats (type VII in particular), but they were - as has been said ad infinitum - built for a dramatically different theatre. That extra size was handy for comfort and packing away a lot of ammo and stores.
I'm reading Clear the Bridge! and it almost sounds like they were on a submergible restaurant that has some torpedo attack capability that the USN found handy in wartime.
Von Hinten
10-30-07, 02:38 PM
err, "plane spotted"??? that's what SD radar is for? Never been damaged by aircraft in my Tench, Gato or Balao class boats - radar gives plenty of advance warning to dive (note, not even crash dive) to a safe depth.
Of course, if you prefer to toot around in your kiddie boat, that's okay with me :D When you're ready to join the real submariners, we might let you have one of the big boy boats :lol:
Um ... yeah well ... I didn't figure that SD radar bit out until not too long ago to be honest. Until then I was relying on the men actually spotting the planes. :oops:
Keelbuster
10-30-07, 02:54 PM
The tower on the Gato is HUGE. I wonder why they made it so damned big.
Rockin Robbins
10-30-07, 03:44 PM
The tower on the Gato is HUGE. I wonder why they made it so damned big.
The better to SINK you with, my dear!:arrgh!:
Ducimus
10-30-07, 04:20 PM
The tower on the Gato is HUGE. I wonder why they made it so damned big.
Remember thats an early war tower before alot of it was cut down to minimize silloutte. Overall though, i think it was orginaly designed like that for two reasons. Hydrodynamics being number 1, and crew comfort on the bridge being number 2. You won't get as wet on a fleet boat bridge then a uboat bridge, at least thats my guess.
The periscope shears, or rather, the height of them ive always viewed as an advantage. Your lookouts are higher up, hence can see farther, and once equiped with radar, your able to use radar while having 90% of the boat submerged, lastly, the boat is deeper while at periscope depth.
Ducimus
10-30-07, 04:39 PM
Since were comparing sizes here :roll: , i made some late war screenies of the same. Im inclulding the first pic i already posted because it gives the best comparision. Again, this is a Tambor class fleet boat, next to a type 9B uboat. Except this time, both boats are in their late war configurations/modifications.
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/tambor_9b_01.jpg
(pic posted earlier, no sense in making 2 shots of the same thing since the hull isnt changing sizes)
-----------------
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_01.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_02.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_03.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_04.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_05.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_06.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/sh4/late_war_comp_07.jpg
mrbeast
10-30-07, 06:11 PM
Very interesting pictures. Perhaps the reason for the difference in the conning tower sizes is due to the differing combat doctrines of the USN and KM.
Prior to the war USN doctrine was dominated by the notion that sbmarines should always mount attacks while submerged, preferably at around 100-150ft deep using sonar bearings. The fear of attack by aircraft while opperating on the surface and at periscope depth was an important factor in this strategy. This may also explain why fleet boats had long periscope shears, to allow the boat greater depth while at periscope depth. Notice that S boats and the earlier fleet boat designs didn't have the tall shears and were designed before the deep sonar approach became doctine.
The KM on the other hand had a very different tactical doctrine which centred on the boat conducting attacks while surfaced. Only diving to complete an escape or if attacks were conduted during the day. This tactic allowed the boat to maintain higher speeds and thus the initiative during an attack. Also U boats operated surfaced during daylight hours as this gave them greater mobility to positon themselves in the path of convoys etc and to receive radio messages co-ordinating them in wolf packs. Thus they have small conning towers, no shears, and a generally smaller silhouette, to give them greater stealth at night and during the day.
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