Help at sea

[Bulkhead]

Hi.

Is there any way to call for help out in the open sea?

The reason is the "diesel and batteries" post i posted 5 mins ago

[AVGWarhawk]

No help at sea. You are on your own. Use your resources wisely:up:

[GoldenRivet]

the last time this happened to me i determiend that even with the batteries pretty much completely dead the ship would at least make one knot.

problem is that i was about 800nm from the nearest friendly port and that it would have taken me a life time to "drift" back to base.

another similar problem i encountered once was the loss of my rudder! i was pointed at Japan with no way to steer!

this post shows how there are two additional arguments for simulating the ability to turn using one engine... as well as run on the electric motors while surfaced!

also one question... surely there was a generator like mechanism that would recharge the batteries when the engines were not able to run.

[Sailor Steve]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine. Where would you have room to carry it? The batteries on a submarine are huge, and take a lot of charging. Battleships have auxiliary generators, but they're bigger than a sub is wide.

Basically, any auxiliary engine powerful enough to charge the batteries would be powerful enough to drive the sub. You'd be better off trying to rig a sail.

[GoldenRivet]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine. Where would you have room to carry it? The batteries on a submarine are huge, and take a lot of charging. Battleships have auxiliary generators, but they're bigger than a sub is wide.

Basically, any auxiliary engine powerful enough to charge the batteries would be powerful enough to drive the sub. You'd be better off trying to rig a sail.

your right... i didnt considerthe mass assoiciated with such a machine.

but i still think we should be able to use the engines differentially and that we should be able to use the Electric motors on the surface.

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, absolutely, I agree with both. Not being able to turn the boat around and head for home is ridiculous, and running 'decks awash' should always be done on electrics, not to mention pulling away from and into the pier at home.

[Torplexed]

Too bad we can't call for a tow...

http://hstrial-cdinkelman.homestead.com/TOWED.jpg

[-Pv-]

Some fleet boats had aux engines capable of driving the sub at 5 knots while charging batteries and maintaining electrical systems and air charge. The Gunnel lost all four engines one at a time on returning to England in Nov of '42 and relied on the aux almost the whole trip back.
http://jmlavelle.com/gunnel/patrol1.htm
-Pv-

[Chock]

You can simulate calling for a tow or fuel supply drop with a bit of fancy 'Notepad' footwork; save the file, then edit the settings so that you are on unlimited fuel (or whatever setting you need), load it up and then off you go, edit them back to limited fuel after you are home.

:D Chock

[Bulkhead]

A tug mod maybe?

I dont think the modders would waste time on a mod like that...

My point is that it would be nice to try all possible way to get back home, thats what they would do in real i belive.. one way is to go at 1 knot on the batteries

[Torplexed]

Depends on where you are, but at one knot you're gonna be easy prey. A boat stuck deep in enemy waters would probably try to call up another fleet boat to help with repairs. Failing that the other boat would take off the crew and try and scuttle the disabled boat as in the Darter and Dace situation. Failing that the boat would certainly be scuttled to prevent it from falling into enemy hands and the crew would try to make for nearby land as best they could.

[Sailor Steve]

Some fleet boats had aux engines capable of driving the sub at 5 knots while charging batteries and maintaining electrical systems and air charge. The Gunnel lost all four engines one at a time on returning to England in Nov of '42 and relied on the aux almost the whole trip back.
http://jmlavelle.com/gunnel/patrol1.htm
-Pv-
Well, I could be wrong.:lol:

I would substitute 'all' for 'some' in your description, because they probably all had those auxiliaries. Five knots is a slow voyage, but if they figured out how to do it, why shouldn't we? On the other hand, if you're out of gas, you're out of luck.

[edjcox]

Find and island and cut down a few tree's and rig a sailing sub...


:D :D :D :oops: :D :D :D :arrgh!:


aaargh!!

[SteminDemon13]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.

[Sailor Steve]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.
So the electric motor uses power from the dead batteries to run the generator to recharge the dead batteries?

Sorry, I don't believe in perpetual motion.

[SteamWake]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.

Sure but what drove the generator ?

The batteries in these subs are indeed massive. Just one battery was in the order of 4 to 8 times the size of the one in your car and there were 'banks' of these batteries. I dont know the exact number but probably in the order of 12 to 20 batteries in each of two banks (fore and aft). Depending on how they were wired (series or parallel) established the voltage available. The quantity and size of the batteries determined there capacity (ampere hours).

The amount of potential energy in the bank of batteries is really quite amazing. If it could all be released in an instant the explosion would be astonishing most likely destroying the submarine. Fortunatly its pretty hard to accomplish that and a slow release of this energy is what is desired. Once that energy is depleted there is no way to get it back without a rather substantial generator.

A little put put generator would not be able to produce the voltage/current required to charge the batterys in any sort of reasonable time. At the very least the generator has to be able to provide the voltage (actually a few volts above the batteires voltage) which I believe to be 300V DC. At least that voltage is common amongst diesel/electric systems of that era. Not a common output of your typical utility generator.

The 'return to base' button was removed by the developers as a nod towards realisim. Unfortunatly it often leads to a carrier in limbo.

I too have been crying for independant motor control since SH2 also the ability to choose which energy source to drive the sub from on the surface should be available as well. After all they did this in real life. How about nodding towards that realisim ?

[seafarer]

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap5.htm#fig5-04

Typical fleet boat had 2 batteries, of 126 cells apiece, and each cell was on the order of 1650lbs (so about 25-26x or more times the weight of a typical car battery).

Fleet boat electrical manual - http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

Fleet boats also had an auxiliary engine, "GM 8-268 is an 8-cylinder, in-line, 2-cycle, air started engine rated at 300 kw generator output at 1200 rpm." (quating from the above linked manuals). These were located below the main diesel engines (ie. under the gratings).

see the lower engine flats on the USS Pampanito - http://www.maritime.org/tour/taerlowvr.htm

[SteamWake]

Double post... oops

[SteamWake]

[quote=seafarer]http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap5.htm#fig5-04

Typical fleet boat had 2 batteries, of 126 cells apiece, and each cell was on the order of 1650lbs (so about 25-26x or more times the weight of a typical car battery).

Fleet boat electrical manual - http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/index.htm

Well I knew i was being conservative but that 1,650lbs is for all 126 cells I believe.

I cant find in there what voltage or Ah these banks were capable of producing. Im curious now. Some quick math points to around 200 volts

Do modern fleet boats still use lead acid cells ? Also do nukes carry storage batteries for in the case of a reactor shut down

[seafarer]

The manual clearly is referring to an individual cell at 1650lbs. The full weight of both batteries, without connectors at such, was about 208 tons. A u-boat's batteries would also make up as much as 16% of total surface displaced weight.

P.S. I think each 126-cell battery in a Gato or Balao class was rated to deliver something like 5,300 Amp/Hrs

P.P.S. Exide battery is still making submarine batteries, and supposedly makes backup batteries for US nukes - I believe they are still made up of lead/acid cells.

[SteminDemon13]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.
So the electric motor uses power from the dead batteries to run the generator to recharge the dead batteries?

Sorry, I don't believe in perpetual motion.

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

[seafarer]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.
So the electric motor uses power from the dead batteries to run the generator to recharge the dead batteries?

Sorry, I don't believe in perpetual motion.

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

Still confused by what you mean. So, an electrical motor can, in priniciple, turn a generator to produce electrical energy. But the motor has to get it's electrical energy from somewhere else in the first place, so what's producing that?

Every ship I've ever been on generated it's electrical power either by alternators run by power takeoffs of some kind from the main engines, or from a standalone diesel or gas-turbine generator combination (and I've toured warships that would have used steam to spin their genetators, just never sailed on a steam powered ship).

[SteamWake]

How? A generator is a fuel-powered engine.

No. There are generators that are coupled to an electric motor.
So the electric motor uses power from the dead batteries to run the generator to recharge the dead batteries?

Sorry, I don't believe in perpetual motion.

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.

While it may be very well possible to charge a subs batteries from a ships energy plant surely it would be easier to transfer some fuel. In either case were still back to a 'rescue at sea' which is not modeled in the game.

[Bulkhead]

I also mentioned the "batteries & diesel" thread. i agree thats a realism issue more than to call a tug to come and get you.

The reason for this question is that my diesel engine is not running and am afraid the hull is not gonna hold if i dive, and i amn about 9-10 hours away from a sub tender at slow speed.

[seafarer]

I also mentioned the "batteries & diesel" thread. i agree thats a realism issue more than to call a tug to come and get you.

The reason for this question is that my diesel engine is not running and am afraid the hull is not gonna hold if i dive, and i amn about 9-10 hours away from a sub tender at slow speed.

All I can suggest is to submerge as little as possible (in increments, clicking on the shallow depth guage) until you can get the motors turning. If you've not gone into a death dive by then, head over to the tender at 2 knots.

[Bulkhead]

Yes, i know. Butt i miss the possibilities to do it on the surface....

[Bulkhead]

Oh my, did I say "butt"....i ment "but" of course:damn: :damn:

[kikn79]

Two options to get home:

In the event that all of your main diesels were out, you could use the "dinky." The auxilary diesel engine located below the after engine room. (As already mentioned by some)

OR, you could emulate the R-14 and fashon a sail out of blankets and matresses.

Searching for the the sea-going tug Conestoga in May 1921, the R-14 ran out of fuel southeast of Hawaii. Sails were made by sewing blankets and mattress covers together forming sails. The submarine arrived in Hilo, Hawaii on May 15 after 5 days under sail.


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/r-14.jpg

Chuck

[SteamWake]

Two options to get home:

In the event that all of your main diesels were out, you could use the "dinky." The auxilary diesel engine located below the after engine room. (As already mentioned by some)

OR, you could emulate the R-14 and fashon a sail out of blankets and matresses.

Searching for the the sea-going tug Conestoga in May 1921, the R-14 ran out of fuel southeast of Hawaii. Sails were made by sewing blankets and mattress covers together forming sails. The submarine arrived in Hilo, Hawaii on May 15 after 5 days under sail.


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/r-14.jpg

Chuck

Thats just freakin awsome !

[Sailor Steve]

Sailor Steve, not on subs, but on a US Navy Surface Ship thank can generate a tremendous ammount of electricity with its Electrical plant setup.
Which is powered by? A battery? I think you'll find it can't generate any electricity at all unless the electrical generator is being powered by the steam turbines.

I agree with Seafarer on the weight. The manual says:
The weight of one cell ready for service is approximately 1650 pounds without intercell connectors or vent ducts.

[SteminDemon13]

Sailor Steve, the Nimitz Class Carriers Have Motor Generator Sets aside from the SSTG's, that generate electricity. Very redundant setup they have.

[kikn79]

I agree with Seafarer on the weight. The manual says:
The weight of one cell ready for service is approximately 1650 pounds without intercell connectors or vent ducts.

They are quite large. Here's a pic of the one in the museum at Manitowoc, WI.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/USS_Cobia/Museum/DSCF5807.jpg


Chuck

[SteminDemon13]

nice photo kikn. Never seen one until now, thanks

[seafarer]

Sailor Steve, the Nimitz Class Carriers Have Motor Generator Sets aside from the SSTG's, that generate electricity. Very redundant setup they have.

You mean like these - http://www.horlick.com/products.asp?cat=64 ?

Note that the motor driving these generators requires it's own, outside power source. Nothing's free in this world, especially energy :)

[rrmelend]

Searching for the the sea-going tug Conestoga in May 1921, the R-14 ran out of fuel southeast of Hawaii. Sails were made by sewing blankets and mattress covers together forming sails. The submarine arrived in Hilo, Hawaii on May 15 after 5 days under sail.


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/r-14.jpg


So why does it look like the guy in the front on the right is on a cell phone? :rotfl:

[SteamWake]

I agree with Seafarer on the weight. The manual says:
The weight of one cell ready for service is approximately 1650 pounds without intercell connectors or vent ducts.

They are quite large. Here's a pic of the one in the museum at Manitowoc, WI.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/USS_Cobia/Museum/DSCF5807.jpg


Chuck

Cool but uh again what is this cells Voltage and Ah rating ?

Phew I can imagine the mess it would make if that thing got shorted out.

[seafarer]

found this at http://yarchive.net/mil/submarine_battery.html

From: Jim Christley <jchris@bbn.com>
Newsgroups: sci.military.naval
Subject: Re: Seawolf vs. NSSN
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:43:59 -0500

Folks:

Just a quick run-down of information as a data point.

Single battery, 126 cells, lead acid, submarine type

Nominal numbers
Voltage range 210 to 355 volts
Amperage capacity depended on discharge rate due to
surface sulfation and total sulfation, electrolyte layering
and temperature.

1 Hour rate aprox 5000 Amps (5000 amp hours)
3 Hour rate aprox 2500 Amps (7500 amp hours)
10 Hour rate aprox 1000 Amps (10000 amps hours)

Bus work in the well as intercell connectors had to carry full load
current. From the well to the distribution/isolation breakers were
cable bundles.

Nuclear submarines (US) have one battery
Fleet diesel submarines (Gato,Balao,Tench Class) had two such batteries
Guppy II and Guppy III had four such batteries.

Each battery can be connected in series or parallel for greater
voltage/current capacity.

Shaft proplsion motors (slow speed non-reduction gear type) on diesel
electric submarines (Gato,Balao,Tench Class) had four (two per shaft)
and these could be connected in series or parallel. Thus there was
range of propulsion battery/motor combinations for speed/endurance.

Regards
Jim Christley

I know that on Royal Navy subs, the command "group up" was to shift the batteries (RN subs had 2 to 4 batteries, I think) from series to parallel for speed runs. This posting makes me believe that US boats had a similar arrangement.

[kikn79]

Cool but uh again what is this cells Voltage and Ah rating ?

Phew I can imagine the mess it would make if that thing got shorted out.

I have heard that each cell was only about 3 volts. Not much power, but when you have 126 cells in each battery, it makes up for each cell not being that strong.

From the label above the pic:
World War II Submarine Exide Battery Cell
The batteries on board World War II fleet submarines were extremely important. Because the engines could not run under water, submarines relied solely on battery power while submerged. Submarine batteries were manufactured for the U.S. Navy by both the Gould Storage Battery Co, and the Exide Corporation.

Each submarine had two batteries, each made up of 126 cells. The forward battery was located beneath the Officer's Quarters and Mess, and the after battery sat beneath the Creww's Quarters and Mess. Each battery consisted of 6 rows of 21 cells each. All the cells were connected in a series to produce the electricity.

Each cell, like this one, was about 4 1/2 feet tall, 1 1/2 feet deep and 1 3/4 feet wide. Each also weighed about 1,650 lbs and was encased in its own acid-proof rubber jar as a precaution against leakage. This encasement was essential because the cells were made up of two kinds of lead plates immersed in sulfuric acid. Since sulfuric acid is highly corrosive, it was important to make sure that there were no undetected leaks which could allow acid to seep out and weaken the boat's hull. The battery cells also had to be properly sealed to prevent salt water from mixing with the sulfuric acid and producing chlorine gas, which could be deadly to the crew.


Chuck

[SteamWake]

So they were typically 300Volt DC in the 1,000 Ah range.

300KW pretty damn impressive espically for DC (Im not going to break down into DC vs AC power factors and phase angles blah blah)

This makes perfect sense as the set ups were more or less a rip off of diesel electric locomotive powertrains.

The shifting from series to parallel would change the Voltage / Current aspect.

Briefly as the voltage goes up the current goes down. DC motors are curious beasts and tend to run better at higher currents at lower voltages wherein there cousins the AC motor is just the opposite. That is as long as that current is available. Its a vicous cycle though as the overall voltage begins to fall due to lack of charge the current draw goes up inversely. You soon hit a point where the cells can no longer provide that amount of current and the voltage drops even more. This is why a boat with fully charged batteries could make lets say 12 knots at all ahead full. When the batteries are discharged and not changing the 'throttle' youll be lucky to wring out 8 knots at twice the current draw. So less speed and faster discharge. The law of diminishing returns.

BTW DC motors are more efficent than AC motors but maintance and construction costs are far greater for the DC motors while AC motors tend to be more compact which explains why typical AC units utilize AC motors.

[-Pv-]

Interesting discussion, but to answer the original question, unless the UBI devs modify the game beyond what we know about for patch 1.4 at this time, you only have limited options:

Revert to a save game.
Modifiy your game save to give you unlimited fuel or undamaged components.
Do the best you can at minimum depth and battery speed.
Try any of the other more humorous solutions offered.

I'm pretty sure we've determined as long as there was diesel, WWII fleet boats had the equipment and expertise to come up with innovative propulsion solutions. Without fuel, as long at the transit was realatively short, even tradtional solutions could be employed (when nature cooperates.)

Another turn on the argument is what are we really asking the devs to do? What we are batting around here is the question "what consitutes game end?"

Are there conditions other than destruction and death where we can consider the player has failed in the mission to preserve a battle worthy or transit-worthy engine of war?
There are many vessel components in the sim most of which can have partial damage of various sorts which I assume triggers limited effectiveness in the code for those components.
There are some components when fully disabled make the game difficult (or meaningless) to continue but for one aspect- willingness to spend the time to return to port and repair or get a new sub, then continue the battle. Loss of guns, crew members, pariscopes, radar, radio, etc. obviously fall into a different class than propulsion.

Once mobility is lost, it becomes a different game. Completely pointless to continue in terms of adding to your tonnage score. Loss of the rudder is another show stopper. We then come to the point where we decide if propulsion can and should be lost in some way as a "tilt" game ender. If no, then some (potentially) complex code and graphics support needs to be added to the game which wasn't intended by the devs. Indeed they went to great lengths to explain to the community they decided to have a "simple" propulsion model and have stuck with that decision. You open a large can of worms as players will also expect the AI vessels to have limited or varied aspects of the same system.

In discussing this in detail, we no doubt start the wheels turning in the future decision process. I see a damage indicator being added as a result of user feedback on the "ghost" status of the damage model.

If and until code is added to all but eliminate loss of propulsion as a game ender, the empetus is back on the player to do what I think the devs intended:
Do all possible to preserve the fighting integrity of the sub and crew while carefully judging risk to gain as much sunk tonnage as possible. This decision then to eliminate one of the show stoppers of the game also eliminates one of the balancing factors of the game: risk vs gain.

-Pv-

[SteamWake]

Another turn on the argument is what are we really asking the devs to do? What we are batting around here is the question "what consitutes game end?"

-Pv-

This one is easy. Return the "Return to base" option. However maybe have some penalty applied for its use.. loss or renown and or promotions or in extreme cases an early retirement.

[Sailor Steve]

Sailor Steve, the Nimitz Class Carriers Have Motor Generator Sets aside from the SSTG's, that generate electricity. Very redundant setup they have.

You mean like these - http://www.horlick.com/products.asp?cat=64 ?

Note that the motor driving these generators requires it's own, outside power source. Nothing's free in this world, especially energy :)
Thanks for the explanation, seafarer. I was beginning to think they were supposed to work by magic.:lol:

[SteminDemon13]

"I was beginning to think they were supposed to work by magic.:lol:"

Yeah, that's what I thought until I saw the setup. :up:

[jazman]

Thanks for the explanation, seafarer. I was beginning to think they were supposed to work by magic.:lol:
I think there was a chief engineer named "Scott" on the ship he was thinking about.

[Bulkhead]

Whats up? I have no idea where you get yor info, and get off the question, but its very interessting to read. :up:

Scenario: When i lie dead in the water without the diesels, i wanna be abel to not be forced to end game because i have to dive or set down the realism. And correct me if I am wrong, but isnt this just a small change in the cfg.?

And one more question: The huge battericell photo, are they placed in there own small pressurised compartments or are they placed inside the subs pressure hull?
Is it enuff space?

all the best
Mister-know-nothing-about-subs

[SteamWake]

isnt this just a small change in the cfg.?

Yes you can edit your self out of your situation but modding wise as in adding a "rescue at sea" has not been done .... yet.

I would not be shocked at all to see the RTB button make a re appearence.

[Bulkhead]

It would be cool to have control of the auxilary diesel engine:)

[seafarer]

And one more question: The huge battericell photo, are they placed in there own small pressurised compartments or are they placed inside the subs pressure hull?
Is it enuff space?

all the best
Mister-know-nothing-about-subs

In a fleet boat, aft battery was under the deck gratings below the crew berths, and the forward battery was below the Officers berthing space - both inside the pressure hull for access. Batteries needed to be watered frequently, so they had to be accessible (much of a boats weekly water production went into the battery). There was extensive ventilation systems installed overtop of the assembled battery cells.

Look in the manual's figures down the page at:
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap5.htm#fig5-04

[kikn79]

And one more question: The huge battericell photo, are they placed in there own small pressurised compartments or are they placed inside the subs pressure hull?
Is it enuff space?

all the best
Mister-know-nothing-about-subs

Here is a shot of the After Battery on the USS Cobia. You access it via the floor in the Crew's Mess and it extends back the length of the Crews Quarters. They use it for parts storage now but you can get an idea of how large it is.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/USS_Cobia/Galley/AfterBatteryCompartment.jpg


Chuck

[shoot-kill-win]

The American Fleet boat had five engines, four main ones, and a less powerful engine in engine room 2, it was called the Dinky and was used if the other engines were being repaired or if the captain wanted more speed.
However the way a Diesel elctric sub works is that while on surface the diesel engines are run, however the engines are not directly connected to the propellers, the engines are connected to the giant generators which in turn charge the batteries and are connected to another screw which turns the propellers. If all four engines were being used to charge the batteries, the Dinky would be put into use running the sub.

From: Fleet type submarine training manual at http://http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm#2A


2MAIN GENERATORS AND MOTORS
AND AUXILIARY GENERATOR A. PROPULSION 2A1. Description. The propellers of a modern submarine are driven by four main motors (see Figure 2-1. (http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/foldout/fig2-01.htm)) arranged in pairs to drive each propeller shaft through a reduction gear, or by two double armature main motors which are coupled directly to and operate in the speed range of the propellers.
Each gear unit used in a gear drive installation is a single reduction, double helical type designed to reduce the main motor speed of approximately 1300 revolutions per minute (rpm) to the propeller speed of 280 rpm.
Power for driving the main motors is obtained from one of two sources: the four main generators driven by the main diesel engines; or, for submerged operation, the main storage batteries.
A single main generator, or any combination of the four, may be employed for charging the main storage, batteries. The auxiliary generator, driven by the auxiliary diesel engine, serves several purposes. It supplies current 1) for all auxiliary circuits, relieving the battery of the auxiliary load; 2) for charging the batteries at a low rate; and 3) for driving the main motors at slow speed through the main storage batteries.
Control of main propulsion machinery is accomplished through the main propulsion control equipment, or control cubicle, located in the maneuvering room.
Detailed descriptions and instructions for the care and maintenance of the various components and their related controls are given in the chapter dealing with each specific component.
2A2. Manufacturers of main propulsion equipment. Main motors, main generators, and auxiliary generators are produced for and furnished to the Navy by the following manufacturers: General Electric, Allis-Chalmers, Elliott, and Westinghouse. Main control cubicles are manufactured by General Electric, Cutler-Hammer, and Westinghouse. Installations are usually paired as follows: General Electric motors, generators, and controls; Westinghouse motors, generators, and controls; Allis-Chalmers motors and generators and Cutler-Hammer controls; Elliott motors and generators and Westinghouse controls. Some of the differences that exist in electrical and structural design of equipment produced by these manufacturers are illustrated and described in this and the following chapters.

[SteamWake]

And one more question: The huge battericell photo, are they placed in there own small pressurised compartments or are they placed inside the subs pressure hull?
Is it enuff space?

all the best
Mister-know-nothing-about-subs

Here is a shot of the After Battery on the USS Cobia. You access it via the floor in the Crew's Mess and it extends back the length of the Crews Quarters. They use it for parts storage now but you can get an idea of how large it is.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb93/kikn79/USS_Cobia/Galley/AfterBatteryCompartment.jpg


Chuck

Looks more like a janitors closet to me. ;)

[Zayphod]

Two options to get home:

In the event that all of your main diesels were out, you could use the "dinky." The auxilary diesel engine located below the after engine room. (As already mentioned by some)

OR, you could emulate the R-14 and fashon a sail out of blankets and matresses.

Searching for the the sea-going tug Conestoga in May 1921, the R-14 ran out of fuel southeast of Hawaii. Sails were made by sewing blankets and mattress covers together forming sails. The submarine arrived in Hilo, Hawaii on May 15 after 5 days under sail.

Chuck

Thats just freakin awsome !

......and the engineer's name is James Montgomery Scott, no doubt. :P

"Scotty! We need more sail!"

[Bulkhead]

A question to the figure 2.1 you posted Shoot-kill-win.

I cant see any propaxels, only generators on each engine. So how did the surface propulsion work? The diesels contniously produce power to the electrical engines that in the next turn drive the props?

[seafarer]

Right - the screws were only connected to the electrical motors. All the diesels do is drive the generators, nothing else. The screws are turned, surface and submerged, by the motors

[Bulkhead]

Directly or via the batteries?

[seafarer]

:hmm: Someone who knows for certain will probably chime in, but I believe while on the surface, the power was shunted directly to the motors. My understanding is that the maneuvering room could dynamically allocate generator power to motors, battery charging, or both. This was one of the reasons for the diesel electric power setup - you didn't have to take a shaft offline to charge a battery, like the u-boats did. Also, since your diesels tended to be run at steady rpms, they could go longer between refits (most wear and tear on a diesel occurs while changing revs - running at constant revs at the optimal range in the power band is best for engine longevity).

[Sailor Steve]

I'm not one of those who knows for certain, but according to the manual, that's exactly right:

2A1. Description. The propellers of a modern submarine are driven by four main motors arranged in pairs to drive each propeller shaft through a reduction gear, or by two double armature main motors which are coupled directly to and operate in the speed range of the propellers.


Power for driving the main motors is obtained from one of two sources: the four main generators driven by the main diesel engines; or, for submerged operation, the main storage batteries. A single main generator, or any combination of the four, may be employed for charging the main storage, batteries.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/elect/chap2.htm#2A

[Bulkhead]

Hi. Sorry to bring this thread back up, but i got a thing on my mind.

I learned that the subs got 4 main engines and that they ar not connected by any shaft, they charge all the time, the batteries and props or just the props that are shaft connected to the electric motors. But as i was told earlier there was a diesel engine #5 that was smaller and worked as a helping unit when just floating to get air sirculate and power. Question: If there is a smaller auxillary diesel powered unit,
does it run all the time on surface?


My sub was damage so mutch that all the diesels (main) was destroyed, but there was still a small charge, so i dived to go on batteries, and surfaced to charge them back up. I had to repeat this several times before i got bak to port. (A very slow trip) I could hear a engine was running but the props didnt turn. Running TM 1.6

[Winston Caine]

Then I'd take a guess it was used just for charging batteries? Maybe that's all it can do in the game? How much fuel did you spend while you got back to the base?

[Bulkhead]

The reserve fule when i was at base was 23%