Other shipping affected by bad weather?

[kalkulator]

My 6th patrol was a storm from start to finish. 15mps wind and I almost got seasick myself watching it go up and down like that. Worst weather I have seen yet in SH.

The sonarman picked up some engine-noises while being 10m deep in between the waves (I didn't have to put myself to periscope depth). And when I started following them, at full flank speed, I had a hard time catching up.

IID max speed is 13knots, but obviously not during these rough seas. I made an unsteady 10knots, dropping to 6 in huge waves. Are other ships affected like this in the same manner?

I did catch up on a passenger-ship, having 1 torp left. Being 800m away, I fired it.
After 400 metres it exploded?! :damn:

[bigboywooly]

Yes other ships are affected by bad weather
Have come across many ships struggling at low speed in rough seas

Rough seas will also affect torpedo stability on mag setting
I only use impact settings in high winds\seas

[kalkulator]

Ok I will make that a general rule of thumb then. Torpedoes on impact when in bad weather. :know:

[seafarer]

And what really bites is when you damage a ship with that last eel. With the weather foul against you, no opportunity to use the deck gun to finish 'em off. Sometime later, she sinks, and even though still close by (within hydrophone range at least), you get NO CREDIT! Why, because the omnipotent AI has deemed that the weather did 'em in, not your torpedo blasting a bus sized hole in her hull. :damn: :damn: :damn:

I even trailed a group of three small coasties, running in line ahead off the New Jersey coast once in horrendous winter weather. Before I could overtake them and get into position, all 3 sank from the storm - their sad little wreck markings on the chart mocking me for the precious fuel I wasted trying to run them down.

[Chock]

I've hit ships which subsequently sank in rough seas owing to getting swamped, where in good weather I suspect they might have been okay, or at least it certainly looked that way to me. Mind you, I am talking seriously bad weather where I was having difficulty maintaining contact by anything other than hydrophones and the external view. Which is why I had to watch them sail along, as there was no way I was even going to attempt a torpedo launch in that weather; the depth-keeping of the torpedoes would have been way off. And of course, no one in their right mind would have gone on deck to try and work the pop gun!

:D Chock

[kalkulator]

I even trailed a group of three small coasties, running in line ahead off the New Jersey coast once in horrendous winter weather. Before I could overtake them and get into position, all 3 sank from the storm - their sad little wreck markings on the chart mocking me for the precious fuel I wasted trying to run them down.

I'm sorry I don't mean to laugh at you ...:rotfl: ... but that was pretty funny story. And I didn't even know that was possible!? Unharmed and without a damage, they can actually go down during a storm? This game is awesome.

[seafarer]

:D Go ahead and laugh - soon you'll have your share of your own :doh: moments to share with us and smile about.

If you use the external camera and watch some ships in really nasty weather, you will actually see them taking damage. Some will start to list sometimes, or get low by the bow or stern, or slow down to a crawl. Even, fires will break out on their own!

Of course, then you'll also see some little coastie, or a narrow beamed small warship, plowing along beam-on to monstrous waves, and think, what the... Since any ship not taking such waves bow on would surely be in BIG trouble.

There's a show on the Discovery channel here, "Deadliest Catch" that's been running for a fair number of years now. It follows the Alaskan crab fisheries in the Bering Sea. The various crab species are fished in the late fall, winter and early spring months, so the weather is, predicably, often unbelievably bad. Watching 90ft to 150ft ships, in seas that may reach 40ft (or one rogue wave caught on tape that had to be 60ft or more - rolled one of the ships clean onto her side, busted the captains ribs, shut off the engines when they lost oil pressure - she righted herself though and they got back without aid). Anyhow, it makes you appreciate how important a skilled helmsman is in heavy seas, and how much the sea can dictate what direction you WILL be steaming in for awhile. That aspect of sea conditons and navigation is not modeled in SHIII or SHIV.

I was once in the NE Pacific in a 210ft ship in 35-40ft seas - I cannot imagine hanging out in a storm on a u-boat conning tower - that must almost qualify as insane by some standards I'd suppose.

P.S. google for a web site with the key words "Heavy Seas" - amazing images!

examples:

http://tv-antenna.com/heavy-seas/3/4.jpg http://tv-antenna.com/heavy-seas/3/6.jpg

[Rykaird]

Many a time in the typically rough weather off of the north Irish coast, I've picked up a hydrophone contact, mapped out my intercept point, and then sat there and waited, and waited, and waited, and the ship just never seems to get any closer. When I used to use the external camera, it would turn out to be some poor tramp steamer, nose buried in the high seas, prop spinning in the air, making a whopping quarter knot. She would be slowly sinking nose first.

I've restarted my career again (I still maintain that 1944 never arrives, because I've yet to see it) and this trip out, I was following my escort north out of Wilhelmshaven. The escort then turned east, beached itself on the bank and burned. Must have been pretty embarassing for him.

[Siara]

Reading this id like to ask another question:

Do the rough seas slow down the torpedos?

It looks to me that way. On numerous occasions i witnessed (even at the distance less than 1.5 km) that torpedos do not hit the ship in the intended point.

Sometimes when the seas are realy rough , they miss altogether.

Should i try deflection shot?

[minute]

I'm in early 1943. I love rough weather. Rough weather is my friend. Good weather is bad. Good weather has this things that fly and drop nasty stuff at my sub.

[U49]

I think it is more that rough sea affect the calculated speed of your target.

I usually aim (manual targeting) to much in front of my target, when we are in heavy seas

[Biggles]

Seen small patrolboats go down under due to obvious reason, but since it's always happens during big storms....well....:hmm:

[3Jane]

I encountered this escort, going down in a heavy sea without any intervention from me. It wouldn't sink, it's stern end rising from where it is in this picture to near vertical. But it kept firing.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8964/destroyerhi3.png

[NiclDoe]

And what really bites is when you damage a ship with that last eel. With the weather foul against you, no opportunity to use the deck gun to finish 'em off. Sometime later, she sinks, and even though still close by (within hydrophone range at least), you get NO CREDIT! Why, because the omnipotent AI has deemed that the weather did 'em in, not your torpedo blasting a bus sized hole in her hull. :damn: :damn: :damn:

I even trailed a group of three small coasties, running in line ahead off the New Jersey coast once in horrendous winter weather. Before I could overtake them and get into position, all 3 sank from the storm - their sad little wreck markings on the chart mocking me for the precious fuel I wasted trying to run them down.

Yes yes I have know of several bad storms that hit Nj here. when there bad There BAD! i always take my IXc in my second carrer and travel around my home state and have lots of luck here.

[Stealth Hunter]

I encountered this escort, going down in a heavy sea without any intervention from me. It wouldn't sink, it's stern end rising from where it is in this picture to near vertical. But it kept firing.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8964/destroyerhi3.png

Get me a godd**n medal. The crew of that ship deserve nothing less than silver stars.

[Tontoman]

Not sure about torp speed in rough seas, but it certainly does play with the depth. It also does change the ship speeds, if you have that option turned on you can see their speeds vary by a knot. I like the heavy seas on damaged ships, sinks some you wouldn't have gotten and speeds up the others greatly. And it allows me to curse 'Verdamnt!' when I have my scope being blocked by the waves just like in Das Boot :rotfl:

A ship that might take hours in calm seas goes like a rock in the heavy stuff. And while those bow hits work wonders (GWX) even in calm, there's nothing like seeing one go down helped by a big wave that just sucks the bow down and never release it. :arrgh!:

T.

[U49]

Get me a godd**n medal. The crew of that ship deserve nothing less than silver stars.

nope :nope: As every escort they just deserve a well aimed torpedo, and nothing else :yep:

This one will be a very difficult shot anyway. It seems your torp' might underrun the target and maybe won't impact ?? :roll:
:rotfl:

[Rykaird]

This one will be a very difficult shot anyway. It seems your torp' might underrun the target and maybe won't impact ?? :roll:
:rotfl:

Unless you take a bow shot, in which case you could run your torp about 15m deep and still hit.

Also, you could surface, park under his stern, and his friends, so interested in shelling you, would plink him on your behalf.

[Captain Nemo]

Following on from this, does rough seas cause some ships to drop behind the main convoy? I am currently stalking a convoy off the NW coast of Ireland and after an attack where I'm proud to say I sunk a large and medium cargo I was held under for an hour or so by the escorts in their attempt to find me and finish me with DC's. After the escorts had cleared off my sound man picked up a merchant a long way behind the main convoy which I believe is a straggler. I intend to come up to PD and stick a torpedo in it when I next load up SH3. Any views on this?

Nemo

[bigboywooly]

Yes
weather and damage will give you convoy stragglers
As long as you stay in rendering range
Move outside of that and re establish contact and all damage has gone and convoy will be in pristeen order

[onelifecrisis]

I even trailed a group of three small coasties, running in line ahead off the New Jersey coast once in horrendous winter weather. Before I could overtake them and get into position, all 3 sank from the storm - their sad little wreck markings on the chart mocking me for the precious fuel I wasted trying to run them down.

I'm sorry I don't mean to laugh at you ...:rotfl: ... but that was pretty funny story. And I didn't even know that was possible!? Unharmed and without a damage, they can actually go down during a storm?

IIRC this only happens if you've got mods which increase the size of the waves beyond a certain point. Can anyone confirm this?

[Rykaird]

IIRC this only happens if you've got mods which increase the size of the waves beyond a certain point. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't use any wave height additions - I use the standard height (GWX/SH3C) and I've seen ships sunk by the weather.

[seafarer]

Yup, all I'm running is 1.4 patch, GWX 10.3 and Commander. But, I've also seen ships sink due to weather in the original stock game.

[onelifecrisis]

Really!? :hmm:

Kinda cool! :yep:

Thanks for the info :up:

[kiwikapitan]

Yes
weather and damage will give you convoy stragglers
As long as you stay in rendering range
Move outside of that and re establish contact and all damage has gone and convoy will be in pristeen order
That sounds unrealistic to me. Why does that happen? I'm guessing it is something to do with the computer being unable to handle calculating damaged ships outside the rendering range. :hmm:

I damaged a tanker just this evening but I only had 1 torp left so I figured I would let him go to fight another day (plus I was happy with the large merchant that I did manage to sink). Pity...

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Other shipping affected by bad weather?
:yep:

(taken from my WaW campaign)
20.JAN.1941 / 0730 / ET5764 / FDU // SITREP / RUNNING LOW ON FUEL / RUCKFAHRT // WX / SERIOUSLY ROUGH SEA / CLEAR SKY / 15 KNOT WINDS // U124


EVEN LOST WARSHIP CONTACT 5000 METERS AWAY POSSIBELY SUNK !

[bigboywooly]

Yes
weather and damage will give you convoy stragglers
As long as you stay in rendering range
Move outside of that and re establish contact and all damage has gone and convoy will be in pristeen order
That sounds unrealistic to me. Why does that happen? I'm guessing it is something to do with the computer being unable to handle calculating damaged ships outside the rendering range. :hmm:

I damaged a tanker just this evening but I only had 1 torp left so I figured I would let him go to fight another day (plus I was happy with the large merchant that I did manage to sink). Pity...

The rendering range is something like 50km
After that the game loses track of it as a 3d object and it just becomes something moving along a course
I honestly dont think any of us have a rig capable of running with larger rendering distances or the game keeping track of damaged shipping halfway across the ocean

Tis not ideal and also a nightmare if you sink 3 or 4 escorts then lose contact through DC or damage - only to catch up with the convoy hours later to find all the escorts are back :damn:

[KeptinCranky]

Had this yesterday, heavy weather sunk 4 trasmp steamers out of 17 ships in the convoy while I was doing my end-around just at the edge of visual range, which left the big ones for me, including the light Cruiser, and as an added bonus the lead Black Swan was struggling and couldn't go faster than a crawl :arrgh!:

gave me a great opportunity to stick close to the surface and reload and have another go, a IXb can do real serious damage in under an hour if conditions are right. sunk 7 ships including the cruiser

[Sailor Steve]

Other shipping affected by bad weather?
:yep:

(taken from my WaW campaign)
20.JAN.1941 / 0730 / ET5764 / FDU // SITREP / RUNNING LOW ON FUEL / RUCKFAHRT // WX / SERIOUSLY ROUGH SEA / CLEAR SKY / 15 KNOT WINDS // U124


EVEN LOST WARSHIP CONTACT 5000 METERS AWAY POSSIBELY SUNK !
The wind speed should read 15 meters/second, or around 33 knots.

[Oberon]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwjrf0gZjIE

[Oberon]

There's a show on the Discovery channel here, "Deadliest Catch" that's been running for a fair number of years now. It follows the Alaskan crab fisheries in the Bering Sea. The various crab species are fished in the late fall, winter and early spring months, so the weather is, predicably, often unbelievably bad. Watching 90ft to 150ft ships, in seas that may reach 40ft (or one rogue wave caught on tape that had to be 60ft or more - rolled one of the ships clean onto her side, busted the captains ribs, shut off the engines when they lost oil pressure - she righted herself though and they got back without aid). Anyhow, it makes you appreciate how important a skilled helmsman is in heavy seas, and how much the sea can dictate what direction you WILL be steaming in for awhile. That aspect of sea conditons and navigation is not modeled in SHIII or SHIV.



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l_8hOai9hGQ

[seafarer]

Actually, I found the video I was remembering

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0aa_1178767829 (also on YouTube (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7494234723393371036&q=rogue+waves&total=823&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1) ).

The fishing vessel is the Aleutian Ballad, a 100ft Aft-wheel house crabber. They estimated the wave had to be more then 60ft or so.

[Ivan Putski]

I`m in a hell of a storm at the moment, 15 meters per sec. wind speed, doing all I can to make headway, just SE of Cork, Ireland. I`ve had several single contacts, but unable to close with them, visibility is terrible on top of everything else. I noticed my watch crew did`nt have rain gear on, so I brought them below, then back to the bridge, all snug in their rain slickers. I`ve had this weather for 12 days, heading back to base before my fuel gets critical. :up:

[Ula Jolly]

15m/s storms are really not among the worst. Between 20-30m/s, most platforms have to give up. Indeed I am sorry SH3 has 15m/s as the worst storms. I'd have liked to see them worse. :)
Destroyers in particular - historically at least - did not perform very well in such rough seas as these. My mind drifts toward the battle of the North Cape. Not only did the leader of the German destroyer flotilla long struggle against these waves, dramatically reducing his speed, but admiral Bey on the Scharnhorst could at one point, though damaged, have outsailed the British destroyer, since lighter ships don't fare so well in headwind as heavier ships.

There could probably have been even worse seas than those that are in the game now, and if there were, I'd love to see the crew green-faced! :D Reduced efficiency and whatnot.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Other shipping affected by bad weather?
:yep:

(taken from my WaW campaign)
20.JAN.1941 / 0730 / ET5764 / FDU // SITREP / RUNNING LOW ON FUEL / RUCKFAHRT // WX / SERIOUSLY ROUGH SEA / CLEAR SKY / 15 KNOT WINDS // U124


EVEN LOST WARSHIP CONTACT 5000 METERS AWAY POSSIBELY SUNK ! The wind speed should read 15 meters/second, or around 33 knots.
my bad, just said 15 in the game ;)

[trongey]

15m/s storms are really not among the worst. Between 20-30m/s, most platforms have to give up. Indeed I am sorry SH3 has 15m/s as the worst storms. I'd have liked to see them worse. :)
Destroyers in particular - historically at least - did not perform very well in such rough seas as these. ...

This account from the Pacific theatre in 1944 shows just how devastating weather could be to warships:

December 18 - A typhoon east of the Philippines heavily damages the Third Fleet. The destroyers USS Hull (DD-350), USS Monaghan (DD-354), and USS Spence (DD-512) are sunk. The light carriers USS Cowpens (CVL-25), USS Monterey (CVL-26), USS Cabot (CVL-28), and USS San Jacinto (CVL-30); escort carriers USS Altamaha (CVE-18), USS Nehenta Bay (CVE-74), USS Cape Esperance (CVE-88), and USS Kwajalein (CVE-98); light cruiser USS Miami (CL-89); destroyers USS Dewey (DD-349), USS Aylwin (DD-355), USS Buchanan (DD-484), USS Dyson (DD-572), USS Hickox (DD-673), USS Maddox (DD-731) and USS Benham (DD-796); destroyer escorts USS Melvin R. Nawman (DE-416), USS Tabberer (DE-418) and USS Waterman (DE-740); oiler USS Nantahala (AO-60) and fleet tug USS Jicarilla (ATF-104) are damaged.

I can't find the picture right now, but I've seen one showing one of the damaged destroyers with it's whole bow sheared off. Talk about limping home!

[Sailor Steve]

15m/s storms are really not among the worst. Between 20-30m/s, most platforms have to give up. Indeed I am sorry SH3 has 15m/s as the worst storms. I'd have liked to see them worse. :)
Destroyers in particular - historically at least - did not perform very well in such rough seas as these. My mind drifts toward the battle of the North Cape. Not only did the leader of the German destroyer flotilla long struggle against these waves, dramatically reducing his speed, but admiral Bey on the Scharnhorst could at one point, though damaged, have outsailed the British destroyer, since lighter ships don't fare so well in headwind as heavier ships.

There could probably have been even worse seas than those that are in the game now, and if there were, I'd love to see the crew green-faced! :D Reduced efficiency and whatnot.
I use the double-size waves, so it represents about 30 m/s.

As for destroyers, I served on one, and you're right: bad weather is nasty. The funny thing is, while they sink easily in the game, the little Flowers rolled and bobbed over the big waves, and actually fared better than the longer, thinner DDs.

[Sailor Steve]

I can't find the picture right now, but I've seen one showing one of the damaged destroyers with it's whole bow sheared off. Talk about limping home!
Not just destroyers:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g320000/g325746.jpg

[kiwikapitan]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6XoPqtnfTuc

Check out the roll on this biaatch. Makes you feel queasy just watching. :huh:

[Sailor Steve]

The pitch is pretty severe, too, in a couple of those scenes.

I have an old copy Warship International magazine featuring an article titled 'It's Rough Out There'. The author describes the varying sea states and what happens, and he points out that there are actually six axes of movement: Pitch (bow and stern up and down), Roll (obvious), Yaw (side-to-side swaying), Surge (the whole ship lunges forward and backward, Heave (the whole ship moves up and down) and Shift (the whole ship moves sideways. It is entirely possible to be in the forward part of the ship and have the bow going up while the whole ship is going down; and the same for the other directions.

Nicholas Monsarrat describes whole convoys turning into the wind and heaving to (stopping), knowing that there was no way a u-boat could attack in such heavy weather.

[Jimbuna]

I use the double-size waves, so it represents about 30 m/s.

http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/twister.gif

[kiwikapitan]

I use the double-size waves, so it represents about 30 m/s.
http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/twister.gif

I agree Jim. I play with seasonal settings in SH3Commander and even in June 15m/s waves are HUGE. I can't imagine how big they would be when you double them! :huh:

[kiwikapitan]

That reminds me what storm settings do you all set for your boats? I think the GWX default is 11 but IMO that is way to strong for a type II or even a type VII boat. It's even borderline for a type IX but I figure it's heavier bulk means it can ride the waves easier. So my settings are type II = 7 m/s; type VII = 9 m/s; type IX = 11 m/s; and finally a type XXI = 12 m/s.

Anyway most of the time it's bloody 15 m/s so settings don't really matter! :damn:

[Sailor Steve]

I use the double-size waves, so it represents about 30 m/s.
http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/twister.gif

I agree Jim. I play with seasonal settings in SH3Commander and even in June 15m/s waves are HUGE. I can't imagine how big they would be when you double them! :huh:
If you use the seasonal setting then you've seen the double-size waves. Commander gives those in the 'bad' months of winter.

[kiwikapitan]

I use the double-size waves, so it represents about 30 m/s.
http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/img231/1076/shockedvi8.gif

http://www.itsnature.org/forums/images/smilies/twister.gif
I agree Jim. I play with seasonal settings in SH3Commander and even in June 15m/s waves are HUGE. I can't imagine how big they would be when you double them! :huh: If you use the seasonal setting then you've seen the double-size waves. Commander gives those in the 'bad' months of winter.

Really? I didn't know that. Thanks SS. :up: