Torpedo spreads

[ddiplock]

Hey guys, i'm having some difficulty in getting my torpedos to "spread" out and hit different parts of a target ship. I've been using the torpedo tutorial to practice my "spread" skills with the offset angles, and i fire each of my torpedos with my periscope aimed at different parts of the crusier in the training mission, but all the torpedos seem to relitavley hit near the front of the ship.

I fired 4 torpedos at that mogami, firing each torpedo with my scope aimed at the foreward guns, the bridge part, the smoke stack, and near the back of the ship. All 4 torpedos struck the front near the guns, not one of them seemed to spread out and hit ALONG the ship like I wanted. But if the offset angle is too great, then I think the torpedos sail AHEAD of the ship and then end up missing. The manual states, depending on where your optics are pointing when you fire your torpedos, that is where they will hit, but i'm finding that hard to beleive :S

Any tips for a skipper guys?

cheers :)

[mookiemookie]

Manual or automatic targeting? In auto targeting it works just like the instruction manual states. In manual mode, it's going to be an offset from the "locked" position of the ship.

[ddiplock]

Manual or automatic targeting? In auto targeting it works just like the instruction manual states. In manual mode, it's going to be an offset from the "locked" position of the ship.

ahhh, so the target needs to be locked all teh time??? ahhh, what ive been doing is unlocking the target, moving teh optics ahead of the ship and firing. Could that be the reasons for my incorrect spreads??

[PapaG39]

I have been experamenting with the same thing.
what I found is that the torpedo seems to hit where the "zero" is when it is in the green.

What I mean is: sitting still waiting for a ship to pass by your cross hairs.

The dimond turns green and you click the "L" locked key to off.
Then move the cross hairs to where you want them on lthe ship and when it shows "zero" fire and it should hit that spot.

At least that is what I Have experienced...

[ddiplock]

Well, i've tried firing using the offset angles leaving the periscope locked on target, but all my torpedos are hitting roughly the same spot unfort. if the angle is too big, the torpedos sail too far ahead of the target and miss like I said before.

*sigh* i dont think i'll ever be able to put 4 holes into a ship at this rate. I can get my torpedos to hit no problem.....but to get them to SPREAD out and hit DIFFERENT parts of the target is proving very tricky. That's why i'm practicing over and over on the "sink the crusier" training mission to avoid any cockups in my carreer :P lol

Any other ideas? :S

[XLjedi]

Have you tried turning off the PK and using a longitudinal spread?

Try this: The O'Kane Method (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=627351&postcount=134)

[Powerthighs]

If you are using the spread dial on the TDC, you should keep the target locked at all times. You also have to set the spread dial to what you want before each shot; it doesn't reset itself.

If you are trying to aim at different parts of the ship with the scope, you have to hit the send button for bearing before each shot. Moving the scope alone doesn't do anything, the TDC doesn't know you've moved it until you click the button to update the bearing.

Another option is to set up a solution in the TDC with the PK off. Leave the scope in one place and fire as each part of the ship passes the aiming wire.

EDIT: This is all for manual targeting.

[mookiemookie]

Ok you never said whether you're using manual or auto targeting. That makes a big difference.

If you're using auto targeting, then your torpedoes will go anywhere along the ship that you point the crosshairs at. i.e. point at the first mast, and your torpedo will go for the first mast. Aim for under the bridge, it'll hit under the bridge. Forget using the offset dial at all if you're doing it this way. Just point and shoot. Also, make sure your PK is OFF.

If you're using manual targeting, the locked position is basically your "zero position". When you're doing target data gathering, make sure you're locked on to the ship. Once you've gathered all the data, turn on your PK. Now your TDC will follow the "locked" position of the ship (so long as she doesn't change speeds, headings, etc). If you fire using a zero offset, you'll hit the ship where the locked position is (assuming your firing data is accurate). Your offset dial is used to spread your torpedos away from that spot.

Manual targeting example: In the training mission, the locked position on the Mogami travelling left to right is under the second stack (dunno if that's true, but let's just assume so for the sake of explanation.) If your spread dial is set to zero and you fire a torpedo at the ship, it will hit under the second stack. If you change that offset dial, say 1 degree left, your torpedo will travel one degree left off of that "second stack" position. Depending on your range to target, that's going to be somewhere to the aft of the Mogami. The further you are to the target ship, the further behind the second stack the torpedo will hit.

Got it? :sunny:

[ddiplock]

Ok you never said whether you're using manual or auto targeting. That makes a big difference.

If you're using auto targeting, then your torpedoes will go anywhere along the ship that you point the crosshairs at. i.e. point at the first mast, and your torpedo will go for the first mast. Aim for under the bridge, it'll hit under the bridge. Forget using the offset dial at all if you're doing it this way. Just point and shoot. Also, make sure your PK is OFF.

If you're using manual targeting, the locked position is basically your "zero position". When you're doing target data gathering, make sure you're locked on to the ship. Once you've gathered all the data, turn on your PK. Now your TDC will follow the "locked" position of the ship (so long as she doesn't change speeds, headings, etc). If you fire using a zero offset, you'll hit the ship where the locked position is (assuming your firing data is accurate). Your offset dial is used to spread your torpedos away from that spot.

Manual targeting example: In the training mission, the locked position on the Mogami travelling left to right is under the second stack (dunno if that's true, but let's just assume so for the sake of explanation.) If your spread dial is set to zero and you fire a torpedo at the ship, it will hit under the second stack. If you change that offset dial, say 1 degree left, your torpedo will travel one degree left off of that "second stack" position. Depending on your range to target, that's going to be somewhere to the aft of the Mogami. The further you are to the target ship, the further behind the second stack the torpedo will hit.

Got it? :sunny:

I believe I've been doing manual shooting, for I have ro put all the info into the TDC before I fire but.....is there acutally a "physical" TDC station that you can access?? Because i've been manually inputting all my data using the dials and such that you get with the attack scope.

[mookiemookie]

Nope, those dials are your TDC controls. It sounds like you may be overestimating your target's speed if the torp's keep hitting in front of where you want them to go. Manual targeting can be very frustrating. :damn:

[LobsterBoy]

I've found another way to get a spread. You can adjust the speed dial on the TDC ever so slightly, and thus the torpedo will hit a different part of the ship. Of course, the range of the target is of extreme importance when using this technique. With a target at 1000 yards (or less) you can adjust the speed at least half a knot and still get a hit.

[Rockin Robbins]

I did some extensive research on how the TDC targeting system works as part of refining the Dick O'Kane attack system, which doesn't use angular spreads, but parallel running torpedoes, each specifically targeted to an aimed position on the targeted ship. If that blows your skirt up, being able to hit precise target points with each torpedo, see my seminar over at WernerSobe's Advanced School for Submarine Attack Tactics (WASSAT) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=652326&postcount=67. (I highly recommend watching all three of his indispensible videos also! I'm a proud graduate of WASSAT:know:)This shows an entire attack from radar guided approach to shooting with results analysed on a non-optimal and partially blown (means I got an itchy trigger finger and fired at the very edge of effective parameters for the method) attack. I think you'll find it entertaining and will show how the TDC actually picks an aiming vector for your torpedoes, even if you do not wish to use the Dick O'Kane attack method.

In short, and as usual :rotfl:, you can take the manual and just put it under the short leg of any table around the house that might need it. Locking a target is not needed to aim a torpedo. Yeah, that's what I said too. Did you know that recent research has shown that swearing actually can be good for you? Also you do not need to use the stadimeter to send the range/bearing to the TDC. (insert appropriate or inappropriate swearing here too). But you don't care about that because we're talking about targeting a chosen spot on the ship using conventional TDC/PK techniques.

Let's target about 1/3 of the way back from the bow of a target with conventional manual targeting. Your first step would be to establish course and speed to set the AoB and speed settings of the TDC. Set speed first, then using WernerSobe's instructions you can set the target course directly on the TDC without even worrying about the AoB (angle on the bow). I can explain how to do that later if you're interested. Immediately after sending the course/AoB click on the Position Keeper!!!!! (why? because the AoB changes continuously as the target moves. The PK will track that. If it were not on, you would always be using the inital AoB, which would be wronger and wronger as time goes by.

Now, leaving the target unlocked, point the periscope just ahead of your target. Use the stadimeter to find the range and....wait. At the precise moment that the aiming point on the ship is in the crosshairs, press the range/bearing send button twice! (I don't know why twice is sometimes necessary, but it is. Look at the left-hand dials and watch the parameters move to prove it. You can press a third time and it will not change. Undocumented bug there, but it's all good:up:).

Ok, we've entered the aiming point 1/3 of the way back from the bow and our PK is supposedly following that all over the ocean until we shoot. Let's check that. I'm assuming you have Trigger Maru working and contact updates on as recommended. Hit the F6 key to go to the attack screen. If you're not using Trigger Maru, you can use your console buttons to go to the attack screen and you see ship silhouettes and cute little movement vectors giving you an unfair (boooooo! booooo!) advantage, but this all works even better. You see the dot (or silhouette) for the target and the projected impact point moving along with the target if everything is right.

If that impact point forges ahead of the target your speed is too high. If it lags behind, speed is too low. Leaving the PK on, fix that.

If it wanders closer or further away, your AoB is wrong. The best way to correct that is to check the left hand dial and set the course correctly using the WernerSobe technique. Don't even worry about the AoB there. (A heretic! A witch!! Burn him at the steak!!!!! I'll take mine medium rare.) Just use the course. You've left the PK on, so now your aiming point is tracking the ship, but it is off target because of your previous errors in target speed and course.

So let's aim back for the ship!!!! We wouldn't want to hit an innocent whale by mistake here, no credit for that. Just go back to your stadimeter and repeat step one. With periscope unlocked find the range with stadimeter, aim ahead of the ship and hit the send button when your aiming point is in the crosshairs. Click! He's dead meat.

Now for spread angle, you'll only have to spread in one direction, toward the stern for subsequent shots. If you're coordinated, it is possible to do individually aimed shots for different parts of the ship with this conventional TDC/PK attack but I'll save that for later only if anybody is interested. I've bored you enough for one day.:-?

[-Pv-]

I get the spreads I expect when setting the spread angles in the TDC between each shot. Since I don't have a crew to help me with all those screen clicks (especially when they involve moving from one side of the screen to another with deadly accuracy) the small additional workload of the spread angle gets me the hits I want with the critical timing required. If the torps launch too far apart, you don't get the exact aiming points you set because the crippled ship will slow down or start a turn. Hitting multiple targets makes the timing even more difficult.
-Pv-

[jdkbph]

This may acutally be simpler than everyone thinks :)

Using manual targeting...

I used to use the spread angle thingie, but could never hit it just right, what with all the calculating x degrees at y range gives z spread assuming 90 degrees track angle yaddayaddayadda.

So what I do now is lock up the target, do all my calculations for speed, AoB/Target Course, range, etc, and turn on the position keeper.... which, if I've done everything accurately, gives me a hit amidships so long as the target doesn't change course or speed.

But I don't want to just hammer the same spot with torp after torp...

Sooooo.... I

1. select the range function on the round input dealy in the upper right part of the screen

2. unlock the target

3. move the cross hair just forward of the spot I want to hit (I prefer spots like under the fore mast, under the stack, just forward of the shafts, etc)

4. wait for the target's motion to carry the desired hit area into the cross hair, then

5. click the "enter range" button (not the stadimeter button, but the triangle thing next to it).

That step five is the equivalent of marking the bearing.

After that just fire the torp... no need to relock or anything. Move the cross hair to a different location on the target, and repeat the above.

The result is I can place a torp where ever I want anywhere along the length of the target... again, assuming I've done all the info gathering and calculating accurately.

This is also a handy technique to use if you realise at the last moment that you've misjudged the target speed, or if the target has zigged and the AoB is now radically different that what's set up in the TDC. If you just don't have time to go back and reset everything for a new solution, you can use this "manual adjustment" to compensate on the fly, as it were.

JD

[AVGWarhawk]

Watch the man himself handle torpedo spread on this video. This was the game straight out of the box.


http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108689

[Rockin Robbins]

5. click the "enter range" button (not the stadimeter button, but the triangle thing next to it).

That step five is the equivalent of marking the bearing.

After that just fire the torp... no need to relock or anything. Move the cross hair to a different location on the target, and repeat the above.

The result is I can place a torp where ever I want anywhere along the length of the target... again, assuming I've done all the info gathering and calculating accurately.

JD
You did my next point perfectly! Of course, there is an even easier way than that. Aim ahead of the ship and hit the send button. When you're ready to shoot, click the PK off. Then just fire torpedoes as juicy parts of the ship pass through the crosshair. No resighting that way!

There's a thousand variations and every one of them works! Would you believe....half of them work? How about a quarter? Would you believe three of them work if you get lucky?

[ddiplock]

This may acutally be simpler than everyone thinks :)

Using manual targeting...

I used to use the spread angle thingie, but could never hit it just right, what with all the calculating x degrees at y range gives z spread assuming 90 degrees track angle yaddayaddayadda.

So what I do now is lock up the target, do all my calculations for speed, AoB/Target Course, range, etc, and turn on the position keeper.... which, if I've done everything accurately, gives me a hit amidships so long as the target doesn't change course or speed.

But I don't want to just hammer the same spot with torp after torp...

Sooooo.... I

1. select the range function on the round input dealy in the upper right part of the screen

2. unlock the target

3. move the cross hair just forward of the spot I want to hit (I prefer spots like under the fore mast, under the stack, just forward of the shafts, etc)

4. wait for the target's motion to carry the desired hit area into the cross hair, then

5. click the "enter range" button (not the stadimeter button, but the triangle thing next to it).

That step five is the equivalent of marking the bearing.

After that just fire the torp... no need to relock or anything. Move the cross hair to a different location on the target, and repeat the above.

The result is I can place a torp where ever I want anywhere along the length of the target... again, assuming I've done all the info gathering and calculating accurately.

This is also a handy technique to use if you realise at the last moment that you've misjudged the target speed, or if the target has zigged and the AoB is now radically different that what's set up in the TDC. If you just don't have time to go back and reset everything for a new solution, you can use this "manual adjustment" to compensate on the fly, as it were.
JD


Haven't been on SH4 in the last few days, got bogged down in another game...shame on me. lol I shall give your suggestion a go tonight, and see how it goes. Here's hoping they SPREAD this time. Before I used to have problems getting torpedos to hit, now they hit no problem....they just don't spread :P lol