Pope John Paul II Returns

[STEED]

Yes another wacky vision story. :roll:

Is this Pope John Paul II waving from beyond the grave? Vatican TV director says yes (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=487764&in_page_id=1811)

[Skybird]

Scary.

The level of credulity, i mean. But as long as people keep their ideas to themselves and do not demand them to influence public life and politics, I would say its their own private business and must not be our concern.

[Zayphod]

Yes another wacky vision story. :roll:

Is this Pope John Paul II waving from beyond the grave? Vatican TV director says yes (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=487764&in_page_id=1811)

Yeah, if you look at anything long enough, you can also see Jesus, Mary, and Elvis in the flames as well.

It's fire - sure it wasn't the devil waving, getting ready for the END of TIMES?

<churchlady> Are they sure it wasn't actually.........SATAN!!?? </churchlady>
Sheesh.

[The Avon Lady]

Couldn't it be the Angel of Burning Tires? :hmm:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3456/michelinxo7.jpg

[lesrae]

...as long as people keep their ideas to themselves and do not demand them to influence public life and politics, I would say its their own private business and must not be our concern.

Well said :yep:

[STEED]

I wonder how many believe this sort of thing?

[kranz]

Hi
I think that many-it depends on people's attitude to beliving in God etc.I'm from poland so I understand why many people believe that they have seen pope in those flames.They are trying to find ANY reason to accelareate the process of making John Paul II a saint.But I don't identify with them and I don't see anything funny and amusing in showing a rubber guy from Michelin in this topic-I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die-so "The Avon Lady" from Jerusalem-watch your language while making fun of sth.

[The Avon Lady]

Hi
I think that many-it depends on people's attitude to beliving in God etc.I'm from poland so I understand why many people believe that they have seen pope in those flames.They are trying to find ANY reason to accelareate the process of making John Paul II a saint.But I don't identify with them and I don't see anything funny and amusing in showing a rubber guy from Michelin in this topic-I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die-so "The Avon Lady" from Jerusalem-watch your language while making fun of sth.
This has nothing to do with challenging a religion or its figures.

[The Avon Lady]

I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die
Care to explain this comment and its relevance to the topic at hand?

[Skybird]

I know that jews in auschwitz were only beliving that they would surely die
Maybe you want to read a bit of Viktor Frankl, Kranz. Just to learn how totally wrong you are in that statement - as far as that statement has any meaning, that is.

from wikipedia:
"Viktor Emil Frankl, M.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.D.), Ph.D. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy), (March 26 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_26), 1905 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905) - September 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2), 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997)) was an Austrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria) neurologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurology) and psychiatrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatry) as well as a Holocaust survivor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_survivor). Frankl was the founder of logotherapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy) and Existential Analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_therapy), the "Third Viennese School (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viennese_School)" of psychotherapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotherapy). His book Man's Search for Meaning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning) (first published in 1946) chronicles his experiences as a concentration camp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp) inmate and describes his psychotherapeutic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotherapeutic) method of finding meaning in all forms of existence, even the most sordid ones, and thus a reason to continue living. He was one of the key figures in existential therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_therapy).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl

[The Avon Lady]

I just quoted Frankl to someone in an email the other day, about extremism.

[bookworm_020]

Back to topic: If they believe that is Pope John Paul II, can I sell them a piece of tast with an image of the Pope to them?:hmm:

Maybe the pope wasn't waving, maybe he was trying to say something about purgatory!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Skybird]

Maybe the pope wasn't waving, maybe he was trying to say something about purgatory!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
More likely that he just sent a homemade video from his current location. ;)

[kiwi_2005]

Oh well if this turns them more to God then good for them. Not many religous ppl are willing to teach non belivers about God they're to high up on there pedestal to do that. To find out about God you either go out and get the bible and read it or you dont. Just dont count on any help cause they're too busy fighting wars over who is right :rotfl::roll:

[Skybird]

To find out about God you either go out and get the bible and read it or you dont.
Now how is that supposed to work? :hmm:

If there really would be a god out there, I insist on him/her/it telling me him-/her-/itself, I do not want to hear about him/her/it from anybody else, or read about him/her/it in a tabloid-style scripture. Until that meeting only my yelling laughter, because that is what it all deserves - if it ever should be made stopping just in time before having killed us all.

[Penelope_Grey]

That is the whole point of religion and being religious its a leap of faith. Placing trust in someone or something else that you cannot quite see or cannot quite prove.

[STEED]

I think it's all rubbish, as all you got to do is look up a number of pictures and sooner or later you will stumble on one that looks Simula that is to say at a glance. ;)

[Penelope_Grey]

This has nothing to do with challenging a religion or its figures.

Then what was it to do with? Cause if it is for giggles, its not funny.

I have a Catholic background within my family, and even though I'm not a strict believer in the faiths, I find your comparison of what could be the Pope rather insulting, Catholics believe the pope to be a representative of God here on Earth. That is serious business, and this is people's beliefs you are taking the mick out of don't you appreciate?

You were quick to pounce on Kranz when he mentioned Jews though.


It's fire - sure it wasn't the devil waving, getting ready for the END of TIMES?

Why would the devil wave to people and try to socialise? Doesn't really fit his MO...

[The Avon Lady]

This has nothing to do with challenging a religion or its figures.
Then what was it to do with?
The shape of the flame.
Cause if it is for giggles, its not funny.
Then don't laugh.
I have a Catholic background within my family, and even though I'm not a strict believer in the faiths, I find your comparison of what could be the Pope rather insulting,
Then be insulted, though that was not my intention.

Why are you responding only to me? Why don't you respond to STEED, who said "another wacky vision story"? Or to Skybird who called the level of credulity "scary"? Or to Zayphod's and Bookworm's sarcastic post?

I have zero Catholic background within my family and 100% Jewish background. If the flame looked more like Moses with the 10 commandments, I would dismiss it just the same.
Catholics believe the pope to be a representative of God here on Earth. That is serious business, and this is people's beliefs you are taking the mick out of don't you appreciate?
Does the Pope command that you must believe that this flame shape in the photo is the Pope? Do you really want to start googling for fire/flame/smoke images caught on camera that represent human figures? Did I even present an argument that the Pope is not what Catholics believe him to be? If this flame is nothing more than a coincidental shape, does it in any way prove or disprove any Catholic understandings of the Pope?
You were quick to pounce on Kranz when he mentioned Jews though.
I never "pounced" on Kranz. On the contrary, I stated my post has nothing to do with disputing anyone's religion. And my second post asked what he meant, which Skybird answered. So where did i "pounce", deary? Read carefully before going into a fit of fervent hyperventilation.

Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad.

[STEED]

Ouch ;)

I would like to say from time to time celebs turn up as well or world leaders and as I have already said it's all tosh, if anyone takes it as word well you need to have a sit down and have a long think. As for the religious ones that pop up my argument stands, come on it's a joke dismiss it and move on. I am amazed how many people believe this just like the Loch Ness Monster and so on.

Come on folks chill out. :yep:

PS: That's a request. ;)

[kiwi_2005]

Ouch ;)

I am amazed how many people believe this just like the Loch Ness Monster and so on.

Come on folks chill out. :yep:

PS: That's a request. ;)

:oThe Loch Ness aint real? :oops:

:damn:

[STEED]

Click my Tiswas link and chill out for a minute. :rotfl:

[Skybird]

That is the whole point of religion and being religious its a leap of faith. Placing trust in someone or something else that you cannot quite see or cannot quite prove.And why do you think that is a virtue, instead of a delusion? Problem is that you cannot prove, never, that something does not exist. To turn that into an argument why it should be reasonable to assume that something does exist, is a bit too much, I think. You cannot prove there are ponk elephants living in a deep cave below the arctic ice. But why believe that they do live there?

the moral and education I have seen in some individuals I met, has not come from to their religous views and attitudes, but has emerged from within themselves. It did not reflect the value of their religion, but the value of their own inner essence. Whereas the existence of theistic religions has caused nothing but violence, hate, intolerance, limiting of the functions our brain is capable of, trying to poison our perception of reality, our ability to learn; religion led to war, inquisition, sharia, for centuries and millenias. Theistic religions never have led a single man into an imgained paradise - all they do is bringing out the worst in us. Without theistic religions - no Taleban, no al Quaeda. No Inquisition. No 30-years-war and centuries of other religiously motivated wars in europe, no Islamic civil war. Let's not forget that the age of enlightenment has been the time and power that forced the churches to give up their iron grab for society and people's minds. but in our present time, we try harder again to even abuse the weakest and youngest of ours to bend their minds again to hear-say and educating them not to ask analytical and critical questions: our children. To educate them to become belivers when it is still beyond them to analyse these things themselves and make a decision dpeending on their results is nothing but abuse of children, imo (and prominent authors) opion. It is high time that the voice of reason makes it self heared much louder again - before Christian and islamic and Jewish beoliefs of god-like psychopaths kills us all in one final cataclysm that in an act of self-fulfilling prohecy and logic-in-cycles is oracled by some from man-made scriptures.

I do not see that the Jesus of the gospels (that were put together not until 70-140 years after his death, so they do not represent any authentic report about him) has taught about these believing-is-a-virtue-things, and these old concepts of simple blind believing hear-say and fairy-tales. Instead he led the way to directly experiencing the reality, and taking responsibility for one's life. This is what makes him more comparable to a Zen master than to a "holy man" ursurpated by a politcal organisation called "church". I still wait for the first thing being shown to me that could qualify for being seen as "holy". He choosed his path not in our place, but for our sake, and he repeatedly said that nobody of us is saved from doing like him ourselves. If he really would have meant the same belief-concepts and the same conception of a god like all the other lunatics in the bible, he just would have been as insane as them, and nopt worth to be remembered.

In the end, believing is no virtue, but expression of lacking knowledge and understanding of the cosmos that surrounds us. Due to that uncertainty, man has a desire to beolueve he has a role, a place in this chaos that apprantly surrounds us, and a state of constant uncertainty is hard to bear for us, and makes us desparate. But believing is for children nevertheless, and they find comfort in believing the fairy tale that tells them they are safe and guarded. when we grow up, we do not wish to depend un such infantile explanations anymore - so we think, before starting to beloieve in a god whose nonexistance has not been proven - which is the argument for us why it is the right thing for some of us to take his presence as granted. That's like assuming that there is a bridge of invisible glas outside the window in the 10th floor, and becasue nobody knocked on the door and proved to us that it is not there, makes us stepping out the window and wanting to cross the street the easy way without needing to climb all the chairs in the house on the other side. Here, scriptures come into play: they easy the burden of needing to think, they offer all answers to all questions imgainable, and if there are new questions, it is tempting to ignore them, even to prevent them, in order to not needing to take the effort and think ourselves. The conflict between fundamental christians and creationists on the one hand, and scientist and defenders of evolution theory on the other hand is a good example.

we may have a craving for beoieving, we may wish to beoieve in something. But a junkey also is craving for a jo0int, and an alcoholic is craving for alcohol. This does not turn metabolic poisons into gods. In the end, our desire to believe in something that gives us an image of being secure in a constantly changing universe full of uncertain variables and uncertainties, is simply this: our desire, our wish, or better: our choice, our decision. Nothing in all that turns our decision into an evidence for gods existing.

I consider that do be infantile, and due to the enormous tools of potential self-destruction avaulable to us I consider it to be vital that we finally move beyoind this childish stadium. for that reason I reject to respect theistic beliefs, and do not pay them any respect at all: it is suicidal in this modern world, and will lead to the final last war or act of self-destruction sooner or later - all in the name of God and his religion, of course.

Let's end this madness - before it ends us.

[The Avon Lady]

Pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia).

Yeh. Dats de woyd! :yep:

[Chock]

It's obviously not JP2 if you look closely...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Elvisfire.jpg

Viva Catholicism Baby!

:D Chock

[Zepheron]

Return of the king

[STEED]

I rest my case. :yep:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2007/10/the-daily-mail.html (http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2007/10/the-daily-mail.html)

[Skybird]

Pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia).


Thanks, I wanted to refer to that thing myself, but was unable to come up with the correct term.

[kranz]

Skybird-my statement had a meaning-probably you didn't want to understand it-on the contrary to your's my statement wasn't based on Wikipedia.I wrote several essays etc concerning this matter based on books(so no wikipedia).I agree-not all jews shoed this kind of attitude(e.g the sonderkomando rebel)but most of them.Why I wrote it? Because I wanted to show The Avon Lady that insulting someone's beliefs may result in a counterstrike aimed at her nation and religion.As I said before I don't believe that the Pope could be seen but so I wasn't insulted but I had to show that so called "giggles" in this kind of case are at the lowest level.Once again for Skybird-this Frankl is "a great example".Indeed.I'm curious why you haven't mentioned David Irving-he was also writting about Holocaust.But-choising a jew as a authority was really funny.Again The Avon Lady-
"Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad." Do you think that jews are so important and everybody wants to shut them up?Are you joking?Probably you believe in some international treason or sth like this.Your intention-when showing this rubber guy- was clear and please don't try to cheat us.

[kiwi_2005]

That is the whole point of religion and being religious its a leap of faith. Placing trust in someone or something else that you cannot quite see or cannot quite prove.And why do you think that is a virtue, instead of a delusion? Problem is that you cannot prove, never, that something does not exist. To turn that into an argument why it should be reasonable to assume that something does exist, is a bit too much, I think. You cannot prove there are ponk elephants living in a deep cave below the arctic ice. But why believe that they do live there?

the moral and education I have seen in some individuals I met, has not come from to their religous views and attitudes, but has emerged from within themselves. It did not reflect the value of their religion, but the value of their own inner essence. Whereas the existence of theistic religions has caused nothing but violence, hate, intolerance, limiting of the functions our brain is capable of, trying to poison our perception of reality, our ability to learn; religion led to war, inquisition, sharia, for centuries and millenias. Theistic religions never have led a single man into an imgained paradise - all they do is bringing out the worst in us. Without theistic religions - no Taleban, no al Quaeda. No Inquisition. No 30-years-war and centuries of other religiously motivated wars in europe, no Islamic civil war. Let's not forget that the age of enlightenment has been the time and power that forced the churches to give up their iron grab for society and people's minds. but in our present time, we try harder again to even abuse the weakest and youngest of ours to bend their minds again to hear-say and educating them not to ask analytical and critical questions: our children. To educate them to become belivers when it is still beyond them to analyse these things themselves and make a decision dpeending on their results is nothing but abuse of children, imo (and prominent authors) opion. It is high time that the voice of reason makes it self heared much louder again - before Christian and islamic and Jewish beoliefs of god-like psychopaths kills us all in one final cataclysm that in an act of self-fulfilling prohecy and logic-in-cycles is oracled by some from man-made scriptures.

I do not see that the Jesus of the gospels (that were put together not until 70-140 years after his death, so they do not represent any authentic report about him) has taught about these believing-is-a-virtue-things, and these old concepts of simple blind believing hear-say and fairy-tales. Instead he led the way to directly experiencing the reality, and taking responsibility for one's life. This is what makes him more comparable to a Zen master than to a "holy man" ursurpated by a politcal organisation called "church". I still wait for the first thing being shown to me that could qualify for being seen as "holy". He choosed his path not in our place, but for our sake, and he repeatedly said that nobody of us is saved from doing like him ourselves. If he really would have meant the same belief-concepts and the same conception of a god like all the other lunatics in the bible, he just would have been as insane as them, and nopt worth to be remembered.

In the end, believing is no virtue, but expression of lacking knowledge and understanding of the cosmos that surrounds us. Due to that uncertainty, man has a desire to beolueve he has a role, a place in this chaos that apprantly surrounds us, and a state of constant uncertainty is hard to bear for us, and makes us desparate. But believing is for children nevertheless, and they find comfort in believing the fairy tale that tells them they are safe and guarded. when we grow up, we do not wish to depend un such infantile explanations anymore - so we think, before starting to beloieve in a god whose nonexistance has not been proven - which is the argument for us why it is the right thing for some of us to take his presence as granted. That's like assuming that there is a bridge of invisible glas outside the window in the 10th floor, and becasue nobody knocked on the door and proved to us that it is not there, makes us stepping out the window and wanting to cross the street the easy way without needing to climb all the chairs in the house on the other side. Here, scriptures come into play: they easy the burden of needing to think, they offer all answers to all questions imgainable, and if there are new questions, it is tempting to ignore them, even to prevent them, in order to not needing to take the effort and think ourselves. The conflict between fundamental christians and creationists on the one hand, and scientist and defenders of evolution theory on the other hand is a good example.

we may have a craving for beoieving, we may wish to beoieve in something. But a junkey also is craving for a jo0int, and an alcoholic is craving for alcohol. This does not turn metabolic poisons into gods. In the end, our desire to believe in something that gives us an image of being secure in a constantly changing universe full of uncertain variables and uncertainties, is simply this: our desire, our wish, or better: our choice, our decision. Nothing in all that turns our decision into an evidence for gods existing.

I consider that do be infantile, and due to the enormous tools of potential self-destruction avaulable to us I consider it to be vital that we finally move beyoind this childish stadium. for that reason I reject to respect theistic beliefs, and do not pay them any respect at all: it is suicidal in this modern world, and will lead to the final last war or act of self-destruction sooner or later - all in the name of God and his religion, of course.

Let's end this madness - before it ends us.

In the eyes of a non believer of cause its madness cause no explanation is good enough for you to believe. Now in the eyes of a believer what you just wrote is utter nonsense, just plain dribble.


I just watched a vid on the net The Six Billion Experiment - http://tinyurl.com/22fuyv

although interesting, and alot of what they said was new to me but then their reason why they are doing it gets to me. They built a machine that will help them to see back in time to the Big Bang cause they want to know why, how it was created, how did it come round where did it come from where did WE come from lol Get the picture. The answer is on page one of the Bible :smug: Simple. Yet these scientist will be banging their heads forever.

As for Dreams, Visions and even Popes showing up in fires, it could be all true... The last days meaning years there will be strange things in the sky, ppl will have visions and sights will be recorded never before seen. Then 10 kingdoms will fall before that great day....

The ten kingdoms today are

Kingdom 1: Canada and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union - Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America - Mexico, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East (Moslems)
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
Daniel 2:44-45, "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure."

Or maybe Daniel was just a Jewish lad high on Nutmeg? Where he just started having drug induced visions? I dont think so, but have no doubt its been said.

And Avon Lady stop using the poor me blame the Jews symdrome. We are not trying to chase the Jews away! Your a magnet to your own undoing. If one of us makes fun of Jews its like we are blardy anti semite. Rubbish!

Edit: wrong link, correct one about Bigbang is fixed

[Skybird]

Kranz,

I try to write loud and clear so that you can hear me up there where you are:

the wikipedia entry was for an easy overview on the man, assuming that many people, including you, would not know who he was. Probabaly no other psychotherapist ever has insisted on "meaning" and "sense" being two most vital essentials to ensure man's psychologcal health and strengthen his willingness to live, like Frankl did. And since you refer to the Holocaust and said all Jews there did know that they would have to die - this simply illustrates that you do not have much insight into the theme. Becasue what we know from witness reports - and Frankl'S work - is this: those who were unable to find their place in a belief or conviction that it all has a meaning beyond the imminent situation, and that they would survive, earlier became lethally desperate and physically weak, and sick, and died much faster and earlier than those who were able to hold convictions that gave them perspective beyond the horror they were caught in: and of these, a significantly higher ammount of people survived.

I have been a clinical psychologist once, and studied Frankl's therapy theory (called logotherapy) as well as some others during my university time, that's why I know some of his writings and his two major works. Not by wikipedia, which was not present at that time, but by having worked my way through the books from A to Z. ;)

And in general I must say that again you sound very much confused, mildly put - others may have even much harsher descriptions on their mind.

[Skybird]

@ Kiwi,
two listenings, and one reading:

http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4mWiqkGy-Y

And these two books are currently on my table, still waiting to be read by me :) , I link to the english originals though having the German editions:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Delusion-Richard-Dawkins/dp/0618680004/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-4263089-9136166?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192629500&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446579807/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7567878-9476008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192629546&sr=8-1

As Betrand Russell quoted someone: "There are good people in the world doing good things, and there are evil people in the world doing evil things. But it takes religion to make a good man doing evil things."

Sorry that I am not being impressed by quotes from scriptures. It's just that their presence just illustrates the reason why I criticise it. Gimme you thoughts, that is okay and I appreciate it, but spare me the scriptures, please: they make it difficult for me to remain serious.

[Happy Times]

Skybird-my statement had a meaning-probably you didn't want to understand it-on the contrary to your's my statement wasn't based on Wikipedia.I wrote several essays etc concerning this matter based on books(so no wikipedia).I agree-not all jews shoed this kind of attitude(e.g the sonderkomando rebel)but most of them.Why I wrote it? Because I wanted to show The Avon Lady that insulting someone's beliefs may result in a counterstrike aimed at her nation and religion.As I said before I don't believe that the Pope could be seen but so I wasn't insulted but I had to show that so called "giggles" in this kind of case are at the lowest level.Once again for Skybird-this Frankl is "a great example".Indeed.I'm curious why you haven't mentioned David Irving-he was also writting about Holocaust.But-choising a jew as a authority was really funny.Again The Avon Lady-
"Try to shut the Jews up elsewhere folks. It won't work here. Too bad." Do you think that jews are so important and everybody wants to shut them up?Are you joking?Probably you believe in some international treason or sth like this.Your intention-when showing this rubber guy- was clear and please don't try to cheat us.

There are many deranged ultra catholics in Poland.:p

[kiwi_2005]

I put the wrong link up the other was about Time Travel.

The 6 Billion Dollar Experiment http://tinyurl.com/22fuyv

[The Avon Lady]

The same kind of Poles that were only more than happy that my ancestors were butchered in their country.

The same scum.

[Happy Times]

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8698/popemk6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Getting a beer and snacks quick to see this..:smug:

[kranz]

Happy Times-what do you mean by "deranged"? Are they "deranged" because they believe in what their religion says, or they believe in what YOU cannot explain.Maybe you are deranged because you can't understand their point of view.
The Avon Lady-after reading you last post I must say that it's wastage of time to respond to you.How about those Poles who were saving jews?They had run the risk for your "ancestors".It's a pitty that you forgot about them.Not only in Poland were they "butchered".But that's a different story.You used the correct verb-butchered-yes they were since they were olnly waiting for the end.And who do you call scum ?You feel safe because you are sitting in front of your PC?Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.Without USA help you would nothing.As I said-watch your language-having a few post more than I do doesn't give you the right to offend others.
Skybird-I'm not confused... Read some Irving's now.

[Happy Times]

Happy Times-what do you mean by "deranged"? Are they "deranged" because they believe in what their religion says, or they believe in what YOU cannot explain.Maybe you are deranged because you can't understand their point of view.
The Avon Lady-after reading you last post I must say that it's wastage of time to respond to you.How about those Poles who were saving jews?They had run the risk for your "ancestors".It's a pitty that you forgot about them.Not only in Poland were they "butchered".But that's a different story.You used the correct verb-butchered-yes they were since they were olnly waiting for the end.And who do you call scum ?You feel safe because you are sitting in front of your PC?Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.Without USA help you would nothing.As I said-watch your language-having a few post more than I do doesn't give you the right to offend others.
Skybird-I'm not confused... Read some Irving's now.

I have to admit, we ambushed you, and you walked right into it. Finno-Israeli joint operation.:p Now you can crawl back in the hole you came from..:nope:

[kranz]

Happy Times-thanks for advice.Now my turn-take the shotgun, point its barrel at your head and pull the trigger.Most of people would die due to destroying their brain-don't worry-it won't happen to you.

[STEED]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/un.jpg

[Penelope_Grey]

EDIT: Previous contents removed due to the sensible points raised below. RE: nastiness

[Hakahura]

It's obviously not JP2 if you look closely...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/AlanBradbury/Elvisfire.jpg

Viva Catholicism Baby!

:D Chock

Thankyou very much!

[Skybird]

For those not knowing the man, David Irving, who Kranz is repeatedly referring to, was found by a British court to be an active denier of the Holocaust, an anti-semite racist, a revisionist, a supporter of right-winged extremist organisations and a promoter of Nazism. His reputation as a historian also was brought to ruins by himself by having forged and/or misinterpreted historical facts, and describing the results of these fact-forgings in several ofhis books. He has been in conflict with courts in Austria and Germany as well, and served several terms in prison, I believe.

In other words, he is as venomous as a viper and you do not wish to touch him even with iron gloves.

To compare such a racist Nazi-sympathiser with Victor Frankl and his work on the importance of man giving meaning to his life in order to gain happiness is an act of great blindness and ignorrance, and illustrates what direction Kranz is coming from.

Don't waste your time by replying, Kranz. I'm done with you.

[STEED]

Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/un.jpg

[kranz]

yeah-this helmet was needed.But don't forget what happened in Kosovo.

[Jimbuna]

Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/un.jpg

Can I borrow that for Melnibonian ? :lol:

[Chock]

The vitriol this thread is kicking up is indicative of just how much trouble religion causes, and is in fact one of the reasons why I'll criticise it at any opportunity.

What started as a fairly light hearted discussion has now descended into some quite nasty comments, and in the real world, the next thing on the list would be violence, which I daresay would please Kranz no end. That's religion for you. Utter nonsense and utter madness. At least people who worship Elvis don't start jihads, wars and crusades over it.

The world can only take so much, and with religion around, we are in for a really hard time. And as for quoting David Irving, any pretence of being either rational or credible goes right out of the window the moment you add his load of old cobblers to your arsenal. I should imagine if you do a search on revisionist history on the internet, it would flash up a big picture of David Irving. Check Irving's website out if you want a good laugh, which incidentally, is about the only place that will sell his books, and that ought to give you some idea about what a load of old cr*p they are.

:D Chock

[STEED]

Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/un.jpg

Can I borrow that for Melnibonian ? :lol:

Indeed you can sir, free. :D

[kranz]

Skybird-First of all-don't tell lies.You have proved-you were reading the newspapers.The facts:Irving did NOT deny the holocaust.He had only quarreled with:the number of jews killed in Auschwitz and the existing of one of the gas chambers in this camp.You won't finds this it newspapers you read.How about this:
" His reputation as a historian also was brought to ruins by himself by having forged and/or misinterpreted historical facts".So? "And" or "or" ?I will tell you why you don't know.Because you haven't read any of his books.You are just copying and pasting other's opinions."In other words, he is as venomous as a viper and you do not wish to touch him even with iron gloves."And you are calling me an ignorant?OMG.I agree with you-I'm an ignorant because I ignore a jew who was in camp and now is telling everybody in his books that jews had a will to fight back.His objevtivness is equal to zero in that case.

[Jimbuna]

Please can those who got an iron rod in the fire call it a day, this was meant to be a light hearted thread only.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/RS42/un.jpg

Can I borrow that for Melnibonian ? :lol:

Indeed you can sir, free. :D

Grassy ar*e ;)

[The Avon Lady]

To see how flippant David Irving is on when and why he denies how much or little of holocaust history, head straight to someone who knows him better than anyone else: Deborah Lipstadt's blog (http://lipstadt.blogspot.com/search/label/David%20Irving).

[STEED]

David Irving maintains that Hitler was unaware of the Holocaust and alters facts and research to suit his thesis. Irving blames all the henchmen but not his beloved Hitler, Irving shot his bolt many years ago.

Hitler gave the orders to kill six million Jews and Himmler carried those orders out, that is a fact which Irving will never except as he will not except the truth. David Irving is a filthy lier and a disgrace.

[Happy Times]

Happy Times-thanks for advice.Now my turn-take the shotgun, point its barrel at your head and pull the trigger.Most of people would die due to destroying their brain-don't worry-it won't happen to you.

Cheers, and you can continue doing on what you do best.:up:

edit. Few beers and got angry, the pic was maybe brig material.

[The Avon Lady]

And Avon Lady stop using the poor me blame the Jews symdrome.
Yet the shoe fits. We've picked up one holocaust revisionism fan plus someone who can't explain why I should be singled out for my post here when others have said things explictly negative about the subject photo.

I call things as they are. You call them as you wishfully think. Think again.

[Jimbuna]

:roll:

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img144/3236/lurkereatingpopcornkf8.gif

[The Munster]

:roll:
Where did you get the popcorn from ? Share it out with the Crew.
:rotfl:

[kranz]

if someone's telling lies it should be revised-without taking care of those who wave they flag and say:we were brave, we were butchered in your country etc.
PS:This blue-white flag pisses me off.

[Jimbuna]

:roll:
Where did you get the popcorn from ? Share it out with the Crew.
:rotfl:

Sorry, but I need it for the next show :lol:
http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img144/3236/lurkereatingpopcornkf8.gif

[Zayphod]

Alright: Don't make me come down there........

The vitriol this thread is kicking up is indicative of just how much trouble religion causes, and is in fact one of the reasons why I'll criticise it at any opportunity.

Exactly. We should all join MY religion: The Church of Frederickism.
Just give 40% of everything ya got.

Off camera: Who is this Frederick?

That's me: Freddy ... Freddy Schultz.

Off camera: You?

Sure, our who family is in the relgion. My mother is the virgin Alice.

Off camera: So what do you believe in, like reincarnation or stuff like that?

If you are a member, and you follow the commandments, you never die. If you never die, you don't have to ever be reincarnated.

Off camera: Are you saying that no one in your relgion has ever died?

I never said that. Wilhelm died.

Off camera: Oh? How did he die?

He broke a commandment.

Off camera: Which one?

The sixth one: Thou shalt not walk in front of a train.

Off camera: How many commandments do you have?

We got 136 of them. Can't hardly move without getting busted. Those rosary beads go through their fingers so fast smoke comes out.

Off camera: I'm impressed by the symbol on your robe. To everyone else, it looks very much like a number "8", but to me, the never endling line represents the never-ending cycle of love.

Oh?

Off camera: Yes, it's beautiful. What does it actually represent?

Uh, well, uh, it um, represents the, uh, never-ending cycle of love.

Off camera: Do you have sacrements?

We got some peperments. :p

Off camera: Do you take vows?

Huh?

Off camera: You know: Vows, vows.

You mean like woopie?

Off camera: Do you have fun raising activities, like Bingo?

More progressive.

Off camera: How so?

Jacks are better to open.

Ok, so everyone join my religion so we can get the whole world back to peace, and remember: just give 40% of everything to me. It's for a worthy cause. :up:

[lesrae]

Cheers jimbuna

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/img144/3236/lurkereatingpopcornkf8.gif

[Skybird]

:lol:, Zayphod! :up:


Off camera: Are you saying that no one in your relgion has ever died?

I never said that. Wilhelm died.

Off camera: Oh? How did he die?

He broke a commandment.

Off camera: Which one?

The sixth one: Thou shalt not walk in front of a train.

[The Munster]

Hang on a cotton-picking minute, how come you gave him popcorn and not me :cry:

Great show btw, even without the popcorn :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

Pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia).

Yeh. Dats de woyd! :yep:
Thanks for that, AL. I didn't even know they had a word. I should have, because somebody makes a word for everything.

More than once in my life I've suddenly noticed that a couple of dots or a pattern on a tile floor will look just like...something. Always something different, and always when I'm not really looking at it. When I focus on it, it's just random stuff again.

Who knew?

[The Avon Lady]

PS:This blue-white flag pisses me off.
Then go ahead and piss off. :yep:

EDIT: Hope these little blue and white flag symbols (flying over one of the evilest places in history - which happens to be your country, Poland) pisses you off, too. :yep:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6799/iaf2wn6.jpg

[HunterICX]

PS:This blue-white flag pisses me off.
Then go ahead and piss off. :yep:

EDIT: Hope these little blue and white flag symbols (flying over one of the evilest places in history - which happens to be your country, Poland) pisses you off, too. :yep:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6799/iaf2wn6.jpg

:hmm:
I hope you noticed the amount of polish members on this board...
they wont be so happy with this kind of messages.

whats so evil about poland?
cant think of any apart that it has been the Extermination Camp factory of world war 2.

but also from that that they havent really done much about your people, I know for a fact they have had enough problems with the German army and after that the Red army. so yeah, they can be a bit cranky but I dont talk filth about them.

about it not helping of the jewish...well how many country's did the same thing?
almost every country the Germans took under control the Jews where deported towards the Camps and the governement helped the nazi's willingy or under force. only the ones where lucky who found the fortunate thing that some family's where willingy to hide them under the risk if caught the same fate.

I aint going into details about the deportations, I always have watched documentary's and article/books about this deportation of the jewish people in grim disgust, I still cant believe today how a human brain is capable to exterminate young children or experimenting on them.

just my thoughts.

but bashing other countries, or religions and I dont care what religion you believe in. but play nice.
if someone sees the pope in those flames...well, I give them their moment to look at it with great belief that it is a sign.

HunterICX

[joea]

PS:This blue-white flag pisses me off. Then go ahead and piss off. :yep:

EDIT: Hope these little blue and white flag symbols (flying over one of the evilest places in history - which happens to be your country, Poland) pisses you off, too. :yep:



I hope you meant "which happens to be in your country, Poland."

[Skybird]

Let's not serve Kranz a favour by turning this into a nationalistic issue over Poland, guys. See AL's latest reply in context of her confrontation with Kranz. It is a personal shootout they have, and I can understand AL's motivation well, that's why I cover her six. - Leave it on that level.

[Skybird]

Did I really say "I'm covering AL's six"...? :-? How needless! :D

[Hakahura]

Whilst I understand Avon Lady's feelings on this subject with kranz.

I don't think anyone should call Poland "one of the evilest places in history"

Poland suffered as much as anyone at the hands of the Nazi's.

As happened in most occupied countries some decided to collaberate, but most of the populace were victims caught up in something far beyond their control. Lets not forget the many brave polish serviceman who did manage to flee their country and join the allies to fight another day.

Kranz, you do yourself no favours either, after all this thread was started with humour. Or at least that was my interpretation.

[kranz]

HunterICX-exactly-but you won't change her attitude to poland.If poland is so bad why the hell jews came here?Who did invite them?What were you looking for here?Another market place for making your beloved dollars?The Avon Lady has read too many french newspapers with all this "polish conc.camps".
The Avon Lady-I had a piss on your flag.Happy?

[KrvKpt. Falke]

Hope these little blue and white flag symbols (flying over one of the evilest places in history - which happens to be your country, Poland) pisses you off, too. :yep:

Then what your ancestors were looking for "in one of the evilest places in history"?
Why there were millions of them in Poland after it regain independence in 1918? (and was even more -i think - before 1795).
Why they didn't leave such evil place before it wasn't too late?
Why your ancestors chosen Poland, not any other country in Europe? Hmm...interesting...

The vitriol this thread is kicking up is indicative of just how much trouble religion causes, and is in fact one of the reasons why I'll criticise it at any opportunity.

It's not religion:roll:
Read this once more:

The Avon Lady: The same kind of Poles that were only more than happy that my ancestors were butchered in their country. The same scum.

Kranz: Typical jewish behaviour.I hope that the Palestinians will kick your asses and Ahmadinejad will help them.

Kranz: This blue-white flag pisses me off.

The Avon Lady: Hope these little blue and white flag symbols (flying over one of the evilest places in history - which happens to be your country, Poland) pisses you off, too.

Where is religion in that? It's nationalism which causes such behavior.
I wonder where are moderators.:nope: This is not a healthy discussion.