View Full Version : Thinking about Vista? Read this
Be sure to read BOTH parts as different, yet overlapping, issues are discussed through both. First article uses Vista 64 bit and second one compares Vista 32 bit and XP.
A Messy Transition Pt 1 http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/smilies/ahehe.gif
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3034
A Messy Transition Pt 2 http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/smilies/aconfsd.gif
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3044&p=1
Good grief, there's so much wrong with Vista, it makes the SH4 problems look like a cake walk.
Capt. Shark Bait
10-01-07, 12:35 PM
don't have to read those to know vi$ta ain't al that. areo? big frikkin deal. i'ld rather a Xfi sound card work the way it's supposed to and DX10 be made available for XP
wetwarev7
10-01-07, 12:43 PM
I prefer to wait a few years and let others deal with the teething problems of a new OS.
I just got XP last year or so....:up:
Canonicus
10-01-07, 01:30 PM
Well...If you have any plans on playing DX10 games comming down the pike in the next few years you won't have a choice. You'll get Vista or be SOL :yep:
Microsoft will not make DX10 available for XP OS...
Why should they?...they want you to spend money...right?
BTW...Vista is fine with SH4...Drivers are plentiful..and getting released fairly regularly, at least from Nvidia.
Creative has released a work-a-round for the sound problem with DirectSound in some games.
So..I'm really not sure what the beef is.
seafarer
10-01-07, 01:39 PM
I'd say it's important to note that the linked articles in the original post are dealing primarily with Vista 64-bit, NOT Vista-32 bit. 64-bit Vista is more then a bit out in left field, as most vendors are not supplying drivers for it (and very few are shipping it with new machines - Acer 64-bit machines come with 32-bit Vista, for example, as do Dell Xeon's, unless Vista-64 is specified when ordering). Vista 32-bit however, does have considerably more and better driver support base. I've worked with Vista 32-bit on Dell's, Lenovo's, Toshiba's, Sony's, and my own Acer - no great or overwhelming issues (some bizarre facets of OS implementation that make you go :doh: but nothing that stopped me from getting the user's machine and software to work the way they wanted).
Plus, the whole band wagon of 64-bit computing is so over blown. Unless you truly need more then 4GB RAM addressing, there is minimal, if any, advantage to 64-bit computing. I can even show you examples where it is detrimental. That is, where running a 32-bit and a 64-bit compiled version of the same application in a situation where less then 4GB RAM will be used by the app., the 64-bit code actually runs slower then the 32-bit code (and I mean running them on the exact same hardware - my dual 2.5GHz G5, for example, or a dual-Xeon server). Really, the ONLY great advantage of 64-bit computing is being able to use more then 4GB of RAM - if that's not a factor for you, then don't fuss with a 64-bit OS.
SteamWake
10-01-07, 01:39 PM
Well...If you have any plans on playing DX10 games comming down the pike in the next few years you won't have a choice. You'll get Vista or be SOL :yep:
Microsoft will not make DX10 available for XP OS...
Why should they?...they want you to spend money...right?
BTW...Vista is fine with SH4...Drivers are plentiful..and getting released fairly regularly, at least from Nvidia.
Creative has released a work-a-round for the sound problem with DirectSound in some games.
So..I'm really not sure what the beef is.
I think the term "work around" may have something to do with it.
But Im afraid he is correct and its not in the next few years. As a matter of example Halo 3 (for PC) Vista only.
DeepIron
10-01-07, 02:03 PM
Well this will cheer you up... M$ was poised to discontinue support for XP in January '08... They have now decided to extend support until May '08.... Whoppee friggin' doo...:damn:
When XP expires, I'll be buyin' a mac...:up:
GlobalExplorer
10-01-07, 02:16 PM
When XP expires, I'll be buyin' a mac...:up:
Are you nuts? Only losers have macs :)
DeepIron
10-01-07, 02:32 PM
Are you nuts? Only losers have macs:)
Absolutely right!
I'd lose my vunerability to viruses...
I'd lose the BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)... (yes it still happens...)
I'd lose the frustration of .dll hell...
I'd lose the constant PITA security fixes and upgrades...
I'd lose the constant "MicroSoft Certified" crap...
I'd lose the time wasted that comes with having to download every friggin' M$ upgrade when I have to wipe my hard drive and re-install the OS because un-installing Windows programs leave behind all kinds of useless files.
And most of all, I'd lose the opportunity for M$ to dictate to me how I should use my computer...
Are you nuts? Only losers have macs:)
Absolutely right!
I'd lose my vunerability to viruses...
I'd lose the BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)... (yes it still happens...)
I'd lose the frustration of .dll hell...
I'd lose the constant PITA security fixes and upgrades...
I'd lose the constant "MicroSoft Certified" crap...
I'd lose the time wasted that comes with having to download every friggin' M$ upgrade when I have to wipe my hard drive and re-install the OS because un-installing Windows programs leave behind all kinds of useless files.
And most of all, I'd lose the opportunity for M$ to dictate to me how I should use my computer...
You forgot to mention that you'd also lose the ability to play most of the computer games we know and love now, and most likely any future games (too complex for a console) as well.
;)
JD (who would otherwise rather be Mac'ing than PC'ing)
I'd say it's important to note that the linked articles in the original post are dealing primarily with Vista 64-bit, NOT Vista-32 bit.
Not for all tests, look at the software test bed table in the 2nd article, it says Vista 32 bit
Are you nuts? Only losers have macs:)
Absolutely right!
<SNIP>
And most of all, I'd lose the opportunity for M$ to dictate to me how I should use my computer...
You forgot to mention that you'd also lose the ability to play most of the computer games we know and love now, and most likely any future games (too complex for a console) as well.
;)
JD (who would otherwise rather be Mac'ing than PC'ing)
Tis why I have a dual boot machine- Sabayon Linux and XP.
XP for games and video editing (Haven't tried Main Actor for Linux yet)- Linux for everything else. Amazing that all drivers and Linux software run w/ no issue w/ the 64 bit version of Sabayon. ;)
MONOLITH
10-01-07, 02:52 PM
I'd say it's important to note that the linked articles in the original post are dealing primarily with Vista 64-bit, NOT Vista-32 bit. 64-bit Vista is more then a bit out in left field, as most vendors are not supplying drivers for it (and very few are shipping it with new machines - Acer 64-bit machines come with 32-bit Vista, for example, as do Dell Xeon's, unless Vista-64 is specified when ordering). Vista 32-bit however, does have considerably more and better driver support base. I've worked with Vista 32-bit on Dell's, Lenovo's, Toshiba's, Sony's, and my own Acer - no great or overwhelming issues (some bizarre facets of OS implementation that make you go :doh: but nothing that stopped me from getting the user's machine and software to work the way they wanted).
Plus, the whole band wagon of 64-bit computing is so over blown. Unless you truly need more then 4GB RAM addressing, there is minimal, if any, advantage to 64-bit computing. I can even show you examples where it is detrimental. That is, where running a 32-bit and a 64-bit compiled version of the same application in a situation where less then 4GB RAM will be used by the app., the 64-bit code actually runs slower then the 32-bit code (and I mean running them on the exact same hardware - my dual 2.5GHz G5, for example, or a dual-Xeon server). Really, the ONLY great advantage of 64-bit computing is being able to use more then 4GB of RAM - if that's not a factor for you, then don't fuss with a 64-bit OS.
This is dead on. :yep:
I don't understand what all the fuss is about (come to mention it, i remember hearing a lot of talk like this when xp was released). I have been runing vista since mid April and have had no problems runing games or applications at all, and if there has been a compatability issue vista has automatically downloaded any updates or fixes needed. windows has come a long way since win98 god i hated that os:damn:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/devil_duck/vista.jpg
SteamWake
10-01-07, 03:23 PM
Well this will cheer you up... M$ was poised to discontinue support for XP in January '08... They have now decided to extend support until May '08.... Whoppee friggin' doo...:damn:
When XP expires, I'll be buyin' a mac...:up:
What do you mean "when xp expires" will it like quit working at some given date or something ?
Yea eventually games apps and drivers will be vista specific but I dont see it happening soon.
The other day my boss asked about upgrading some machines to vista here and I just sighed and made him realize how much time I would lose in the process between hardware, software, and networking would far outweigh any 'benifit'.
the_belgian
10-01-07, 03:27 PM
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7058/afbeelding1bc6.th.jpg (http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=afbeelding1bc6.jpg) :smug:
bradclark1
10-01-07, 03:28 PM
Well this will cheer you up... M$ was poised to discontinue support for XP in January '08... They have now decided to extend support until May '08.... Whoppee friggin' doo...:damn:
When XP expires, I'll be buyin' a mac...:up:
No, they are allowing XP on OEM until May08, not support. Supports got a little while yet.
[quote=DeepIron] No, they are allowing XP on OEM until May08, not support. Supports got a little while yet.
Also XP SP3 is scheduled for sometime in the first half of '08. This means it could be as late as June (or knowing M$, September ;))
SUBMAN1
10-01-07, 03:57 PM
Absolutely right!
I'd lose my vunerability to viruses...
I'd lose the BSOD (Blue Screen of Death)... (yes it still happens...)
I'd lose the frustration of .dll hell...
I'd lose the constant PITA security fixes and upgrades...
I'd lose the constant "MicroSoft Certified" crap...
I'd lose the time wasted that comes with having to download every friggin' M$ upgrade when I have to wipe my hard drive and re-install the OS because un-installing Windows programs leave behind all kinds of useless files.
And most of all, I'd lose the opportunity for M$ to dictate to me how I should use my computer...
Quite frankly - wrong answer! :p Viruses are just as prevalant, and in many cases more prevalent on Mac. MS sued Apple over this fact since they made a commercial about how this is not the case.
Mac defintely blue screens, but maybe its just not blue - its a nice and neat different color. The short answer - they crash as much as an XP machine.
You get to trade dll hell for lib hell!
Mac has just as much in the security fixes and upgrade department. Last I checked though, they were slower than MS in fixing vulnerabilities.
You'd replace MS certified for Apple certified. Nice trade. Especially since Apple tends to screw around and not test things properly.
And the biggest bonus of all - you trade Bill Gates for Steve Jobs! I'd take Bill any day, but quite frankly, I'd just go Gentoo on everything in my house (only 2 machines have it at this point) and ditch both of em and have a fast and perfectly stable system since I failed to compile for anything else but the hardware that particular machine has. Gentoo so far is the most stable OS I've ever seen if you compile it properly. No bloat!
-S
PS. After seeing Jobs brick iPhones, who would want him in my PC? Hell no!
My joy is NOT spending day after day with my home pc. Since I have a working XP setup for my games I will DEFINETLY NOT make any change at all, until the environment is not working ANY MORE.
So M$ can keep their Vis/&#% and I keep my XPSP2.
seafarer
10-01-07, 04:52 PM
SUBMAN1 - Name one native Mac OS X virus in the wild. There aren't any. The only OS X virus have been proof of concept ones, none actually out spreading in the wild (I've been running OS X since the beta - never seen an OS X native virus yet).
The WosMan
10-01-07, 06:45 PM
If only Apple would make their products a bit cheaper and software developers would make more titles and games for Mac. I have problems with both MS and Mac and am a fan of neither. I always get a laugh out of the fanboys on both sides and competely understand but for me a PC and Mac are just tools that accomplish the end to a mean in a different way. I have used both and I like both for different reasons. However, I won't question the superiority of Mac's OS or it's security over XP or any other MS product for that matter. I really think MS is hurting themselves with MS SHvIsTa. I will continue to use XP for a while. I know one thing for certain, Vista is keeping me from doing my routine 2-3 year PC upgrade, I am hanging on to my current rig for a while until they fix vista and I am not holding my breath.
DeepIron
10-01-07, 07:08 PM
and software developers would make more titles and games for Mac.
Bingo! People will spend $$$ on equipment IF they have software to run... To wit, the expensive gaming PCs that people will purchase just to run their favorite eye candy game or sim...
How many people have upgraded just their video cards to keep pace with OpenGl and DX versions? Lots...
Until the advent of the Intel Mac, most apps were business oriented... I have friends who are professional graphics artists, they make their living off of graphic oriented jobs. They won't use anything but Macs...
Now, Xcode will compile Intel instructions and many applications, especially ones that use OpenGL over the M$ proprietary DX stuff, will run just fine.
BTW, my best friend works for Hallmark (the worlds largest maker of greeting cards, etc) and all their artists work on Macs...
Capt. Shark Bait
10-01-07, 07:35 PM
Well...If you have any plans on playing DX10 games comming down the pike in the next few years you won't have a choice. You'll get Vista or be SOL :yep:
Microsoft will not make DX10 available for XP OS...
Why should they?...they want you to spend money...right?
BTW...Vista is fine with SH4...Drivers are plentiful..and getting released fairly regularly, at least from Nvidia.
Creative has released a work-a-round for the sound problem with DirectSound in some games.
So..I'm really not sure what the beef is.
there's this:
http://www.tech.co.uk/computing/software/operating-systems/news/directx-10-port-for-windows-xp-users?articleid=1926096380
and this: http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/
kiwi_2005
10-01-07, 11:39 PM
I just discovered in Vista the many radio stations (under gadgets) you can have set in your Sidebar. Brilliant! I got US, Sweden, french & uk stations to listen too, works well whn gaming, mind you i think ive heard enough techno for one day :lol:. Just found a radio talkback station on current events, now this is gonna be fun...
ghost_666_rider
10-02-07, 03:20 AM
Just my .02, but haven't tried Vista, and don't plan on it with all the negatives floating around. In fact, I'm only running XP on one of my three, and thats to keep the boss (read wife) happy. Amazing how few things don't run under wine (with a bit of tinkering on the stubborn ones).
In fact, I'm only running XP on one of my three, and thats to keep the boss (read wife) happy. Amazing how few things don't run under wine (with a bit of tinkering on the stubborn ones).
Same proportion, same reason (almost), same solution.
I run SH3 native on XP. You have SH3 or something similar running in wine ??????? :hmm:
OK. NOW you have my attention! :D
kiwi_2005
10-02-07, 10:57 PM
Well i dont know. Vista folks is ok, When gamers were using Windows98 SE we thought the same when windows xp came out, why can't some of my Dos games run on xp, this xp runs slow and i own a Duron 900mhz with 256ram & a whoop ass TNT with 32mb of RAM!!! XP is Sh*t, Yeah well i own a 3dfx voodoo with 16mb of ram but XP wont run good in 16 bit mode and my voodoo can only run in 16bit!!! XP is a rip off I bet they did this to get 3dfx out of buissiness, I hate MS! :rotfl:
But then the patches came out, better hardware and slowly we ended up loving xp. Now Vista has arrive and the past is repeating itself.
Maybe Vista came out way to early it should of been put out in 2009-10.:hmm:
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