New Tactic That's Helped!

[SnowCajun]

I've been playing around with things lately and have found that I'm getting much better sinking rates having set my torpedo depth to either 10 feet or 11 feet deep. Give it a try, like I said it seems to have helped me much more than leaving them at the default setting.

SnowCajun

[Siara]

what do you mean by that? The settings are determined by the depth of the kil surely. I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?
I set the value about 1 m deeper then the ships kil in flat waters, in rough i opt for impact ignition.

[A_Engel]

I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?

There are no magnetic triggered torpedoes in this game. The switch is there for you to turn the magnetic trigger on and off, but the switch is just for show. It does not do anything.

[swdw]

what do you mean by that? The settings are determined by the depth of the kil surely. I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?
I set the value about 1 m deeper then the ships kil in flat waters, in rough i opt for impact ignition.
Hee hee, if SH4 simulated the magnetic detonators correctly you wouldn't be doing that. They were a disaster and either exploded prematurely or ran under the keel w/o detonating.

THen there were the problems with the firing pins on the torps smashing w/o detonating and requiring subs until late 1943 (if I remenber right) to have the torp hit at an angle to ensure detonation. Hitting the target at 90 degrees usually resulted in a dud.

THe sub skippers started setting the torp depth shallower to prevent running under the keel. Don't know if SH4 simulates this, but too shallow of a running depth would cause the weapon to broach and when it re entered the water it would usually change direction and depth

[mrbeast]

I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?

There are no magnetic triggered torpedoes in this game. The switch is there for you to turn the magnetic trigger on and off, but the switch is just for show. It does not do anything.

The magnetic detonators do work and the switch is not just for show (I've tracked torps with the external cam and seen them run under and detonate under the keel when set to magnetic/contact).

But as swdw correctly points out this is, as far as realism goes, incorrect. The magnetic pistols hardly ever worked. Indeed the whole concept of them was flawed for numerous reasons. One of the main reasons why they didn't work was that after 1940 most ships had their hulls degaussed as a defence against magnetic mines, this neutralised the ships magnetic signature, rendering magnetic detonators useless.

[Siara]

SHIV is the game you talking about right? :oops:

I jumped the gun a bit, my bad. Seen the post in list of posts and thought i throw my penny in it.

Im at the stage where my copy of SHIV awaits for better inerts of my comp.

[mrbeast]

Yes SH4 and actually the RL recomended depth for magnetic detonation was about 5 feet under the keel of the target ship so 1m would do just as well .

[Krauter]

I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?

There are no magnetic triggered torpedoes in this game. The switch is there for you to turn the magnetic trigger on and off, but the switch is just for show. It does not do anything.

In this game, the Mag, detonators work only before mid-1943, after wards, they're only contact detonators. However, I might have the two mixed up, I remember somone mentioning this fact on numerous occasions.

With Regards,

Krauter

[SnowCajun]

what do you mean by that? The settings are determined by the depth of the kil surely. I gather you talking about the magnetic torps?
I set the value about 1 m deeper then the ships kil in flat waters, in rough i opt for impact ignition.I just meant for regular contact exploders, it seems if you run them a little deeper than the default 6 feet then it works better. I honestly do seem to be getting more one shot kills setting them at 10 to 11 feet deep. Maybe I'm wrong but I seem to be seeing more of the damage underwater than partially under and partially above the waterline. Like I said, I was just playing with things, I may be wrong, but it appears to be working and I'm gonna keep at it if it's working for me anyway..

SnowCajun

[leovampire]

works better at times is because now water is flowing down into the bowles of the ships instead of having to flood their way up first. A torpedo has a better effect in diasabling a ship faster if set to a more shallow setting. If you want to split a ship in half a deeper setting near the base of the keel is better.

So a torpedo set just bellow the water line will in most cases bring a ship to it's knee's a lot faster than one set deep especialy with using Natural Sinking Mechanics as a Mod. They take on water much faster with using that method.

[SnowCajun]

works better at times is because now water is flowing down into the bowles of the ships instead of having to flood their way up first. A torpedo has a better effect in diasabling a ship faster if set to a more shallow setting. If you want to split a ship in half a deeper setting near the base of the keel is better.

So a torpedo set just bellow the water line will in most cases bring a ship to it's knee's a lot faster than one set deep especialy with using Natural Sinking Mechanics as a Mod. They take on water much faster with using that method.To be honest I'm finding just about the opposite. I've been experimenting with torpedo depth settings and have progressed down to using a 13 foot depth setting on most everything except destroyers. I'm getting more kills per torpedo than I've been getting at default depth, that's for sure. At default depth I often watch ships sail on sometimes almost as if unharmed, but the deeper 13 foot depth torpedos are knocking off propellors and doing what would appear to be more internal damage disabling the ships. I don't know all the reasons why, but I do know that default settings weren't stopping large freighters with one shot where the deeper running torpedos are sinking them fairly regularly with one torpedo. I just know I'm doing much better doing it this way, maybe others aren't, but I am anyway and thought I'd share it.

SnowCajun

[Rockin Robbins]

works better at times is because now water is flowing down into the bowles of the ships instead of having to flood their way up first. A torpedo has a better effect in diasabling a ship faster if set to a more shallow setting. If you want to split a ship in half a deeper setting near the base of the keel is better.

So a torpedo set just bellow the water line will in most cases bring a ship to it's knee's a lot faster than one set deep especialy with using Natural Sinking Mechanics as a Mod. They take on water much faster with using that method.
I'm afraid I've had a quantum leap in torpedo effectiveness not by setting to a generic 11' as SnowCajun suggests, but actually looking up the draft of the vessel and targeting 5' above the keel. This is often 15' or 20'. I'm getting contact hits. It's not my intention to play with the magnetic exploder. I'm sinking many merchants now with a single torpedo hit, when before I would hit with 2 and then sometimes require a third to finish the victim off later. I'm using Trigger Maru 1.63, ROW latest version and Natural Sinking Mechanics latest version.

I could make all kinds of logical arguments like the deeper the hole the greater the pressure, but this is a game that does not behave logically in all events. It's probably best to say it just works that way and skip any possible rationalization. After all, it's just a weirdly configured collection of ones and zeros.

[Ducimus]

Without going into too many details, In TM, the key is in getting damage to the keel zone, which runs the length of the ship, along its bottom. A torpedo has an explosion radius of about 4 meters if i remember correctly. This 4 meter radius doesnt recongize objstuctions like other zones in the ship. Whereever it hits, it will effect a 4 meter circle, and any zone within that circle.

For flooding to start in a zone, a minimum amount of damage must be done. Once flooding has started, it is always to 100%, the only variation being how long it takes.

If you remove the keelzone from the equation, the way some ships are zoned, you could put 4 or 5 fish smack into the side (or even more), just at or just below the waterline and it won't sink. Large merchants in particular. And then they just list to one side. Adding the keelzone back into the equation and it becomes a question of how much periphial damage from the torpedo explosion is spread to the keelzone in order to reach the minimum threshold for it to start to flood. In my tests it was about 2 or 3. Although you can get a lucky hit in.

This keelzone/ship zoning problem ive described is also why you can put as many as 12 torpedos into one side of the Yamoto, and all you'll get is a heavy list. Since the ship is so wide, the explosion radius isnt tapping the keel zone and the compartmental flooding isnt enough to take it down. To sink the Yamato, you'll have to get some really solid salvos along both port and starboard sides of that ship.

[Ducimus]

After rereading this thread, if i were to rerlease TM (and im not, no time), id pull the NSM out unless Wernersobe has a new fix.

The problem is the ships zoning and the keel. The keel zoning being flooding = ship sunk, period.

So if you remove this weekspot, large vessels due to their zone placement wont sink. Add the weakspot back in (which is what i did) and they do. THe problem is the keelzone is so freaking large, (and not as strong as other zones) that if you target it specifically, you'll get 1 fish sinkings.

[SnowCajun]

This keelzone/ship zoning problem ive described is also why you can put as many as 12 torpedos into one side of the Yamoto, and all you'll get is a heavy list. Since the ship is so wide, the explosion radius isnt tapping the keel zone and the compartmental flooding isnt enough to take it down. To sink the Yamato, you'll have to get some really solid salvos along both port and starboard sides of that ship.I sank the Yamato the night before last with 7 torpedoes all set at 15 foot depth and all hits on the starboard side from 1600 yards shots. The six hits stopped her and the 7th was the coup de grâce!

I've not tried running any under the ships yet, that's a god thought and I may give that a try to see what happens. It was originally a great idea in real life but due to the shot supposidly being back breakers, but due to poor torpedo depth performance in WW2 it wasn't working out. Maybe it may work in the game. No matter what, running my torpedoes deeper than default is truly helping tremendously. I won't waste torpedoes on small ships, I gun them down, but for large and mediums the 13 foot depth setting has been great for me. I snuck in last night and got six single shot kills in a convoy, 3 large freighters and 3 mediums freighters, and snuck out at 400 feet without a single depth charge from any of the four destroyers. Not the norm but it was fun anyway. I highly recommend trying the deeper torpedo settings, I think you'll notice the benefits.

Have fun,
SnowCajun

[Ducimus]

I sank the Yamato the night before last with 7 torpedoes all set at 15 foot depth and all hits on the starboard side from 1600 yards shots. The six hits stopped her and the 7th was the coup de grâce!


Using TM 1.62 or 1.63?

[Frederf]

The magnetic detonators do work and the switch is not just for show (I've tracked torps with the external cam and seen them run under and detonate under the keel when set to magnetic/contact).

That's not very scientific of you. I have a switch here that changes when the sun comes up! I have it set to make the sun come up in the morning. It totally controls the sun and I can prove it! I had it set to "morning" and sure enough the sun came up at about 0700am. The switch totally works.

See what I mean?

Personnally the last time I tried magnetic detonation I put about a dozen torps under a ship during a testing session by mere inches without result with every single possible setting. I ust have simply been at the stage in the war when it was All-Contact trigger only.

[Wilcke]

After rereading this thread, if i were to rerlease TM (and im not, no time), id pull the NSM out unless Wernersobe has a new fix.

The problem is the ships zoning and the keel. The keel zoning being flooding = ship sunk, period.

So if you remove this weekspot, large vessels due to their zone placement wont sink. Add the weakspot back in (which is what i did) and they do. THe problem is the keelzone is so freaking large, (and not as strong as other zones) that if you target it specifically, you'll get 1 fish sinkings.

Ducimus,

Thanks for the explanation, now I can understand what my eyes are seeing! LOL...old saw....believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see...I could be wrong!

Going to PM Werner and see if he is working on anthing special at the moment.

Wilcke

[SnowCajun]

Using TM 1.62 or 1.63?Okay I'm not sure what you're asking here, all I'm using is the regular game with the ver 1.3 patch, that's is.

SnowCajun

[Rockin Robbins]

My last 2 kills have been 1 hitters with TM 1.3 and RSM classic latest version. I'm setting depth to draft - 5 feet to allow for possible deep runners. I haven't had any pass under the keel and I'm in December 1943.

[SteminDemon13]

Snowcajun,

In your manual on page 72 it gives a recommended depth for the various types of ships.

Battleships: 20'
Heavy Cruisers, Carriers, Large Merchants: 12'
Light Cruisers, Small Merchants, Submarines: 10'
Destroyers: 6'

On page 74 it gives you info about the life in torpedo hits.

I know many of us just run to the store, grab the game, install it, play and forget to read the manual. I too am victim of this. Ever since reading the passage on pg 72 it has helped tremendously. I too have found where I was using too many damn torps on those pesky merchants:arrgh!: . So I read, experimented and with great sucess I have been getting one shot kills. Going back to base for torps is a loooong trip, and now my torpedo usage has since been more efficient allowing more targets for me to sink:rock: .

[SteamWake]

I know many of us just run to the store, grab the game, install it, play and forget to read the manual. .

Well actually in this case that may have been benificial :yep:

I generally refer to the recon manual in game for ship depths. I dident realize the manual even had this info in there. I may very well be usefull.

[SnowCajun]

I know many of us just run to the store, grab the game, install it, play and forget to read the manual. I too am victim of this. Ever since reading the passage on pg 72 it has helped tremendously. I too have found where I was using too many damn torps on those pesky merchants:arrgh!Yeah I'm guilty as charged! Sheeesh.. digging for my manual. Thank you!

SnowCajun

[SnowCajun]

Battleships: 20'
Heavy Cruisers, Carriers, Large Merchants: 12'
Light Cruisers, Small Merchants, Submarines: 10'
Destroyers: 6'
On page 74 it gives you info about the life in torpedo hits.I was off posting on a firearms forum after posting the last message here when it hit me what I'd read here. It lists "Submarines 10' " The only submarine I've ever seen to shoot at was one docked, the one with the aircraft hanger than doesn't give you credit for sinking it. Has anyone else seen, or sank, any other enemy submarines cruising around in this game, I've always missed the fact that they don't seem to be in the game? What the deal on this, were enemy subs not included in the game other than for show while parked at dock?

SnowCajun